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nateprati wrote:
Lets take it back to normal people and demi god people. Not normal people, special normal people, demi gods and super demi gods

Take it back to when? Scions were always in the game (except 1st ed, maybe?), under the name of Stormtroopers.

Table wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Chaos for sure it is pretty much just AoS models and spikey marines. Also the CSM should have bein wiped out by now as getting new members is a pain in the ass for them and they lose guys all the time.

Do not take black library marine porn as actual fluff. Chaos Marines do work. I mean look at the current setting.

You mean don't take the canon lore as the actual lore. Go off some head cannon and hand waving explaining how a depleted batch of legionaries who LOST the HH with no good ways to make more members is somehow at the amount of manpower needed to still be threat. Yet alone well equipped and able to muster into a real army despite infighting be a huge problem. Seems legit.

 mew28 wrote:

Table wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Chaos for sure it is pretty much just AoS models and spikey marines. Also the CSM should have bein wiped out by now as getting new members is a pain in the ass for them and they lose guys all the time.

Do not take black library marine porn as actual fluff. Chaos Marines do work. I mean look at the current setting.

You mean don't take the canon lore as the actual lore. Go off some head cannon and hand waving explaining how a depleted batch of legionaries who LOST the HH with no good ways to make more members is somehow at the amount of manpower needed to still be threat. Yet alone well equipped and able to muster into a real army despite infighting be a huge problem. Seems legit.

No no no, you don't get it. Despite being disparate and in the most dangerous part of the galaxy that's in a constant state of CHAOS, most of the traitor marines from the heresy aren't dead for some reason. When Chaos fights each other in the eye of terror they fire blanks, the 40k equivalent of touch football. Sure, you may think existing in a part of space that doesn't obey the laws of physics and randomly hurls people through time would be HORRIBLY CRIPPLING to an a armies functionality (especially logistically), but chaos forces are all just that awesome that it barely holds them back. I hope that cleared things up for you.

 Mayk0l wrote:
Kill off Ultramarines.
Go George R.R. on 40k.
Instantly makes the setting more interesting.

Also I don't understand people complaining about Chaos being Mary Sues. They seriously lose every battle and fail at everything they try. They are like Gadget's Dr. Claw or Dick Dastardly.
R.G. is the prime example of a Mary Sue that makes the whole setting bland and pointless.

They could not have made this story "progression" any more boring than by introducing Guilleman.

Chaos is looked at as a mary sue faction because losing doesn't bother the demonic portion of their forces as they simply come back later in the warp and every action feeds the chaos gods as well stuff like the daemon primarchs have all of the plot armor of the normal ons as well as the good old "I just reform when you kill me" to make your actions seem pointless. Also as noted else where in the thread logistically they would simply run out of dudes and guns.

On the note of killing the ultramarines that would do very little as a successor chapter would just take their name reform them and as they have bein a major plot point for years just removing them and every action they did in the lore is unfeasible due to the sheer amount of retconing.

Also on the note of RG being unable to lose I would like to point to the gathering storm book the second one he was in where he did lose to demons. More then I can say for Failbandon king of retcons.

Abbadon is highly underrated. Look at just how much he's managed to accomplish *without any arms*! No wonder chaos is so badass.

Sister of Battle. No matter what edition they are the most unfun army to play against and almost always played by TFG's.

My good friend plays them and he's great. Even though I lose constantly.

I can think of no way to make people quit playing faster than to invalidate their army.

 mew28 wrote:

Table wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Chaos for sure it is pretty much just AoS models and spikey marines. Also the CSM should have bein wiped out by now as getting new members is a pain in the ass for them and they lose guys all the time.

Do not take black library marine porn as actual fluff. Chaos Marines do work. I mean look at the current setting.

You mean don't take the canon lore as the actual lore. Go off some head cannon and hand waving explaining how a depleted batch of legionaries who LOST the HH with no good ways to make more members is somehow at the amount of manpower needed to still be threat. Yet alone well equipped and able to muster into a real army despite infighting be a huge problem. Seems legit.

Yea the infighting thing has always kinda irked me, they did the same thing with dark elves in Warhammer fantasy. I understand infighting for orks or another horde faction as it serves as a plot dump as to why they don't steam roll the galaxy but when they push that lore on elite low population factions such as above, I tend to cringe a bit. However not all chaos suffers from infighting.

 mew28 wrote:

Table wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Chaos for sure it is pretty much just AoS models and spikey marines. Also the CSM should have bein wiped out by now as getting new members is a pain in the ass for them and they lose guys all the time.

Do not take black library marine porn as actual fluff. Chaos Marines do work. I mean look at the current setting.

You mean don't take the canon lore as the actual lore. Go off some head cannon and hand waving explaining how a depleted batch of legionaries who LOST the HH with no good ways to make more members is somehow at the amount of manpower needed to still be threat. Yet alone well equipped and able to muster into a real army despite infighting be a huge problem. Seems legit.

So I take it in your headcanon Bile (and by extension The Consortium), Daemon worlds, post heresy recruits and things like the Daemonculaba don't exist?

Kay.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 mew28 wrote:

Table wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Chaos for sure it is pretty much just AoS models and spikey marines. Also the CSM should have bein wiped out by now as getting new members is a pain in the ass for them and they lose guys all the time.

Do not take black library marine porn as actual fluff. Chaos Marines do work. I mean look at the current setting.

You mean don't take the canon lore as the actual lore. Go off some head cannon and hand waving explaining how a depleted batch of legionaries who LOST the HH with no good ways to make more members is somehow at the amount of manpower needed to still be threat. Yet alone well equipped and able to muster into a real army despite infighting be a huge problem. Seems legit.

So I take it in your headcanon Bile (and by extension The Consortium), Daemon worlds, post heresy recruits and things like the Daemonculaba don't exist?

Kay.

Further to this, It's pretty basic knowledge that Warp Shenanigans make trying to actually pin down exact numbers a pain. A ship can disappear for a hundred years to suddenly reappear and have missed a great mustering even though only an hour has passed on the ship. Conversely, a ship could spend 100 years in the eye initiating new recruits to full readiness and equipment, but when they finally emerge it has only been a matter of weeks in real space. Remember, Just because it isn't mentioned, doesn't mean it isn't happening. Look at Cawl with the Primaris marines, Nobody knew it was happening, but that didn't mean it wasn't.

Tristanleo wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 mew28 wrote:

Table wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
Chaos for sure it is pretty much just AoS models and spikey marines. Also the CSM should have bein wiped out by now as getting new members is a pain in the ass for them and they lose guys all the time.

Do not take black library marine porn as actual fluff. Chaos Marines do work. I mean look at the current setting.

You mean don't take the canon lore as the actual lore. Go off some head cannon and hand waving explaining how a depleted batch of legionaries who LOST the HH with no good ways to make more members is somehow at the amount of manpower needed to still be threat. Yet alone well equipped and able to muster into a real army despite infighting be a huge problem. Seems legit.

So I take it in your headcanon Bile (and by extension The Consortium), Daemon worlds, post heresy recruits and things like the Daemonculaba don't exist?

Kay.

Further to this, It's pretty basic knowledge that Warp Shenanigans make trying to actually pin down exact numbers a pain. A ship can disappear for a hundred years to suddenly reappear and have missed a great mustering even though only an hour has passed on the ship. Conversely, a ship could spend 100 years in the eye initiating new recruits to full readiness and equipment, but when they finally emerge it has only been a matter of weeks in real space. Remember, Just because it isn't mentioned, doesn't mean it isn't happening. Look at Cawl with the Primaris marines, Nobody knew it was happening, but that didn't mean it wasn't.

Well it is true that time is different in the warp it is extremely random even for Chaos and it would average out to be about the same as a normal forge or hive world except that it is in the warp so everything is more dangerous witch would hurt production. On the note of Bile and the Daemonculaba they do make members however they still need geneseed and chaos marines are unable make usable stock so they need to get it from LSM and seeing as how anytime they fight LSM they would need to win the fight to even break if they lost one guy for every LSM killed and could carry on if they never lost a battle and only fought LSM. But they don't they fight other stuff as well and they die to it meaning they would slowly run out of geneseed and die out.

 mew28 wrote:

Well it is true that time is different in the warp it is extremely random even for Chaos and it would average out to be about the same as a normal forge or hive world except that it is in the warp so everything is more dangerous witch would hurt production. On the note of Bile and the Daemonculaba they do make members however they still need geneseed and chaos marines are unable make usable stock so they need to get it from LSM and seeing as how anytime they fight LSM they would need to win the fight to even break if they lost one guy for every LSM killed and could carry on if they never lost a battle and only fought LSM. But they don't they fight other stuff as well and they die to it meaning they would slowly run out of geneseed and die out.

I don't want to sound too confrontational with this, but you ddin't do your homework and read up on what I referenced.

CSM can absolutely make new geneseed. A lot of it is unusable but they have the means to reuse those that are (it's right there in the DG codex in the Plague Surgeon fluff), add in the fact of the Gene-Tithe (which, granted, is EC geneseed; but still...) and other CSM legions would have equivalent banks on their adopted worlds in the Eye they can easily replenish their ranks due to Bile's influence (The guy cloned all 20 Primarchs and various high ranking members of The Imperium FFS), be it from the above, cloning or just enhanced humans from the various Daemon worlds in the Eye.

We also have post heresy recruits. Entire SM chapters can turn to Chaos and take their entire armouries and gene stock with them.

Even if they don't have the required geneseed, Bile has created specialised kill-teams from his New Men called "Gland Hounds", whose sole purpose is hunting Loyalists for their progenoid glands. So the CSM don't even need to get their hands dirty.

Bile's base of operations is on a a former Eldar Crone World where he runs a university cum private army of all of the Legion's disparate Apothecaries who have banded together to learn from Bile (this is The Consortium I referenced earlier), so Bile has taught every CSM Apothecary that wants to learn everything they need to know about replenishing various warbands and the art of fleshcraft.

So with all of this you'll note how CSM are a lot less discerning about where their new members come from. Cloning is generally frowned upon (see Raven Guard and Afriel Strain) within the Imperium. CSM have no such qualms about doing such things.


So how is it so unbelievable that CSM can still exist?