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They are coming thick and fast now

Example of command options for living dead soldiers. Note: being in plastic we think will be easy for hobbysts modifying the neck to obtain a nice captain without head. Do you want help us to release this project? Like and share our page, we need all your help to let people know about this campaign

Great looking sets so far. I hope they have a 'pick and choose' option to cherry pick the units/minis you want. I do not think I need a whole army, but a few of these and a few of those would work perfectly for me.

I really like this so far.

So far these look brilliant. Only point of criticism is the headless model looks odd having the neck rounded. Hope that is optional and a headed version can be made.

He was decapitated by melon-baller. His head was scooped off.

...ha?

Of course if that actually did happen, his neck wouldn't look like that, it would be concave, right?

Anyway...swing and a miss on the 'joke', but a hit (solid single) on the miniature renders.

Just hope their game is pretty good too!

Regarding the head: This is the statement above the picture

Note: being in plastic we think will be easy for hobbysts modifying the neck to obtain a nice captain without head.

 stonehorse wrote:
So far these look brilliant. Only point of criticism is the headless model looks odd having the neck rounded. Hope that is optional and a headed version can be made.

there's descriptive text that accompanies the picture

I realise that this KS seems to be creating plastic troops for Fireforge's own upcoming rules.

However, I'm sure they'll get at least as many, probably more, sales for other systems.
The models look great. But really... 12 models in a zombie horde? Most of Firestorm's other ranges (historical) have amounts like 30-48 in foot soldiers and 12's in cavalry.
Are these sets going to be a quarter of the cost or are we going to see these boxes of 12's at the same price as 30+ models.
If KS purchasers are upfronting the cost of production, I really hope this isn't a case of matching box sizes and prices to (say) GW price standards rather than Historical figures.

Hopefully stretch goals give us more and more sprues.

I'm sure many of us wouldn't mind.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
I realise that this KS seems to be creating plastic troops for Fireforge's own upcoming rules.

However, I'm sure they'll get at least as many, probably more, sales for other systems.
The models look great. But really... 12 models in a zombie horde? Most of Firestorm's other ranges (historical) have amounts like 30-48 in foot soldiers and 12's in cavalry.
Are these sets going to be a quarter of the cost or are we going to see these boxes of 12's at the same price as 30+ models.
If KS purchasers are upfronting the cost of production, I really hope this isn't a case of matching box sizes and prices to (say) GW price standards rather than Historical figures.

Don't worry, if they try to match GW prices the project will be DOA. I'm confident they will offer us great value in exchange for fronting the cost of production.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
I realise that this KS seems to be creating plastic troops for Fireforge's own upcoming rules.

However, I'm sure they'll get at least as many, probably more, sales for other systems.
The models look great. But really... 12 models in a zombie horde? Most of Firestorm's other ranges (historical) have amounts like 30-48 in foot soldiers and 12's in cavalry.
Are these sets going to be a quarter of the cost or are we going to see these boxes of 12's at the same price as 30+ models.
If KS purchasers are upfronting the cost of production, I really hope this isn't a case of matching box sizes and prices to (say) GW price standards rather than Historical figures.

they already talked about this, sets will be significantly cheaper.

All we have for comparison so far is their Amazons KS, the main pledge was €69 but with stretch goals went up to €156 in value. The base set from that pledge retails for €99 so roughly a 1/3 discount to start with. Also that KS was resin not HIPS which is more expensive to tool but cheaper to produce thereafter.

They've said that due to the smaller qty the boxes will be cheaper. Their historical infantry sets retail for €27 for 24 figures or €39 for 48 figures so would 12 figures be €14-€15 ? and at a third off €10??? pure speculation on my part won't be too long until we find out.

Not sure if I'll get the full starter or just go a la carte depends on the value in each I guess I don't need another game system put if it's effectively thrown in for free I'll take it

 Mysterio wrote:
...ha?

Of course if that actually did happen, his neck wouldn't look like that, it would be concave, right?

Anyway...swing and a miss on the 'joke', but a hit (solid single) on the miniature renders.

Just hope their game is pretty good too!

1. Depends on your scoop orientation.

2. The joke is a swing and a miss, but a bigger swing and a miss would be someone with obvious and inescapable access to clippers or a hobby blade complaining about a plastic miniature's unsightly neck stump.


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I will be shocked if the price of the zombie box scales proportionately per mini with their historicals.

Same here - there will always seemingly be a 'Heroic Scale Gaming Tax' that will keep us well above 'historicals' pricing!

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
I realise that this KS seems to be creating plastic troops for Fireforge's own upcoming rules.

However, I'm sure they'll get at least as many, probably more, sales for other systems.
The models look great. But really... 12 models in a zombie horde? Most of Firestorm's other ranges (historical) have amounts like 30-48 in foot soldiers and 12's in cavalry.
Are these sets going to be a quarter of the cost or are we going to see these boxes of 12's at the same price as 30+ models.
If KS purchasers are upfronting the cost of production, I really hope this isn't a case of matching box sizes and prices to (say) GW price standards rather than Historical figures.

These kits will have a different price from our historical range, because these kits have a different production cost (a lot higher)
We think we will be able to have a price around the 20€ for each box set

About the number of models in our boxes, our previously releases, tried to give customers an high number of good models. We thought in past that our figures were used mostly for regimented battles.
There weren't all these rules to play skirmish battles with our figures.

In fantasy wargames, the use of large battle rules is decreasing, by the other side the quality of the models of this market is really high. You don't need anymore a lot of models, but do you want that your models will be wonderful.

This is why our company for this project focused completely on the quality of the models, working on new ways to do figures (like new joint system of the model parts), adding more details on the sculpts and creating a lot of accessories to customize them.

This of course increased a lot the production cost. The kickstarter price for our fantasy boxes will be a bit lower of the future retailer price. We are doing our best to give you a good quality price.

Naturally, what we learned on that work will be used to increase the quality of our future historical production

Well, I hope the price point will be okay. Because those Zombies will probably mainly used in WHFB, KoW or AoS by a lot of people (me included).

All are still mass battles.

For AoS, I would need about 120 Zombies as a core. That's 640/2000 points.
20 GW Zombies are 30 €.
39 Mantic Zombies are 40 €.
So yeah, these Zombies are better than the GW or Mantic ones, but a pack of 12 probably shouldn't be priced higher than 15 € to be competetive.

Tale as old as time, historical company goes into fantasy when they notice they can charge more per figure

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Tale as old as time, historical company goes into fantasy when they notice they can charge more per figure

maybe could be strange for you, but our company will earn the same selling one box of an historical product or two boxes of our future fantasy range

This is due to the different production cost.

Our intention is to release on the market really nice figures for fantasy games, from the wargames to the roleplay games and honestly we think they are nice, and also a great push forward from our past production, here some differences:

The proportions are better
There will be the bases you need also for other games
They will be as usual compatible with other sets
There will be a lot of option to assemble them in different ways
The details will be well defined (like the chainmail)
The joints of the parts will be better for assembling
There will be command options to assemble leaders, standard bearers and musicians in all the boxes (except the Living dead peasants, but you will have a double command option in each Living Dead soldiers set to use with peasants)

And in any case, i would like to tell a couple of things:
-1 we are not doing our production with the idea to sell figures for other games, these models are thought for our game, if people will buy them to play AOS or 9th age etc, we will be happy of course, but our intention is our new game
-2 there are companies (someone told about historical companies but it is not only this case) that to increase the price or continuing to sell with a low price their products give you a plastic lower in quality as material: this will be not our way to work as our customers know

EDIT response above got in while I was typing so this was posted prior to seeing it.

Yeah you probably don’t want to exceed €30 for 24 Zombies or else your too close to the competition. These are easily the best looking Zombies but sometimes price and quantity trumps quality which can be especially true for the big hordes required for Zombies.

If 120 Zombies is going to cost €200 Mantics 117 for €120 looks the better deal.

 DaveC wrote:
Yeah you probably don’t want to exceed €30 for 24 Zombies or else your too close to the competition. These are easily the best looking Zombies but sometimes price and quantity trumps quality which can be especially true for the big hordes required for Zombies.

If 120 Zombies is going to cost €200 Mantics 117 for €120 looks the better deal.

It's impossible to sell the figures we created at the same price (or lower) than mantic. Simply their models are cheaper in production, lower of quality and they can offer them to a better price. We simply can't for the quality we are offering.

 Lord Ekard wrote:

And in any case, i would like to tell a couple of things:
-1 we are not doing our production with the idea to sell figures for other games, these models are thought for our game, if people will buy them to play AOS or 9th age etc, we will be happy of course, but our intention is our new game

That seems a bit oblivious. We have seen nothing of the ruleset, nor are these anything other than 08/15 Zombies and foot soldiers.
That's what makes them perfect imo, as you can use them for whatever game system you want.
But believing your ruleset will be the main selling point for them...?

I don't think the absolute crap that Mantic produces is a very good place to start any sort of pricing discussion. For the aforementioned quality issues.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

 Lord Ekard wrote:

And in any case, i would like to tell a couple of things:
-1 we are not doing our production with the idea to sell figures for other games, these models are thought for our game, if people will buy them to play AOS or 9th age etc, we will be happy of course, but our intention is our new game

That seems a bit oblivious. We have seen nothing of the ruleset, nor are these anything other than 08/15 Zombies and foot soldiers.
That's what makes them perfect imo, as you can use them for whatever game system you want.
But believing your ruleset will be the main selling point for them...?

The rules will be ready for beta test during the campaign, we are working on because we would like offer something good for all the level of players: wargames with large battles with regimented units, wargamers that prefer a faster skirmish battle with less models and a good strategic use of the scenics on the table, and tabletop gamers that prefer to play with few but well customized models with their abilities.

It's not easy of course, we are trying to give gamers something with the taste of the past with our idea of wargaming. For example the movement will be the classic you have always used in past, but there will be easy way to do maneuvers. We created the concept of stamina for units to recreate the idea of tired soldiers during a battle (units that fight for more than one turn, units that use the march movement and other actions outside the usual actions will suffer lose of stamina points that once depleted give to the unit malus), we worked on a magic phase that avoid the extremely destroying spells of other games and let you choose to play the strategy you prefer (each magic will have its card and can be casted once upon a battle, with rules that give you a way to create your own deck of magics to use and penalties if you want launch a fire spell for example with a druid).
There will be a turn game based like: i go my movement phase, you go your movement phase, i go my shooting phase you go your shooting phase... and a contemporary turn about the losses: in each phase (like the shooting phase) you just need to sign the number of models death after failed savings, but you will remove them only at the end of the phase. So for example, my archers will shot to your unit of archers, killing 3 of them, but when it will be your moment to shoot, you unit will fire as full units, because only at the end of this phase the players will remove the losses by their units. In this way we think we solved the problem that who play first could be too much advantaged.
We also thought a new way for model skills to have a simpler and better balanced game, but these are all things that we will reveal forward.
And to be sure to obtain nice rules, we will ask to join to the playtest to all backers of our campaign.


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Another preview of the models you will be able to assemble with the Living Dead Knights set

 Lord Ekard wrote:

It's impossible to sell the figures we created at the same price (or lower) than mantic. Simply their models are cheaper in production, lower of quality and they can offer them to a better price. We simply can't for the quality we are offering.

I know I brought up the topic of price/amounts.
Firstly I wouldn't expect you to charge Mantic prices or less. They are often hit and miss.
However...

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I don't think the absolute crap that Mantic produces is a very good place to start any sort of pricing discussion. For the aforementioned quality issues.

Is just someone that hasn't seen or built some of the later releases.

My worry was the amount for zombies... 12.
Your own game may use 12's but I do think most people taking an interest here and on the FB adverts are looking at the models from the point of view of adding them to a game they already play. Many of those games use zombies in blocks of 20/40 even 60.
I can't see many people being quite so interested in buying 5 x €30 boxes to make a single unit.
IMHO the death knell of WFB was when you started to need multiple boxes to make a single unit.

Anyway, I hope the price/unit amounts work out well in the end as the models look great.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Lord Ekard wrote:

It's impossible to sell the figures we created at the same price (or lower) than mantic. Simply their models are cheaper in production, lower of quality and they can offer them to a better price. We simply can't for the quality we are offering.

I know I brought up the topic of price/amounts.
Firstly I wouldn't expect you to charge Mantic prices or less. They are often hit and miss.
However...

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I don't think the absolute crap that Mantic produces is a very good place to start any sort of pricing discussion. For the aforementioned quality issues.

Is just someone that hasn't seen or built some of the later releases.

My worry was the amount for zombies... 12.
Your own game may use 12's but I do think most people taking an interest here and on the FB adverts are looking at the models from the point of view of adding them to a game they already play. Many of those games use zombies in blocks of 20/40 even 60.
I can't see many people being quite so interested in buying 5 x €30 boxes to make a single unit.


IMHO the death knell of WFB was when you started to need multiple boxes to make a single unit.

Anyway, I hope the price/unit amounts work out well in the end as the models look great.

12 is perfect for Dragon rampant and i am sure i will buy a few boxes of the soldiers.

Funny how this project started out strong based on the renders, but every text post by the authors makes it sound more and more like it will be dead on arrival. This just isn't a world where you can launch a game of two factions at or close to modern GW pricing with a 90s GW design standard.

I dont really have need for 28mm undead miniatures right now, but 12 models a pack sounds a bit low.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Tale as old as time, historical company goes into fantasy when they notice they can charge more per figure

This is the first time I remember a company justifying it by telling us we were so good at using our model budgets more efficiently that they just had to charge more. The reward for doing more with less is paying more for less.


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Yes, yes, I mean "fewer".


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 Lord Ekard wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Yeah you probably don’t want to exceed €30 for 24 Zombies or else your too close to the competition. These are easily the best looking Zombies but sometimes price and quantity trumps quality which can be especially true for the big hordes required for Zombies.

If 120 Zombies is going to cost €200 Mantics 117 for €120 looks the better deal.

It's impossible to sell the figures we created at the same price (or lower) than mantic. Simply their models are cheaper in production, lower of quality and they can offer them to a better price. We simply can't for the quality we are offering.

What makes fantasy minis so much more expensive to produce than historical minis? Please be specific.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

What makes fantasy minis so much more expensive to produce than historical minis? Please be specific.

Seconded. - Especially considering the sculpting and mold costs should be covered by the KS.