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tneva82 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:

GK can still charge T2 with a reroll from the Warlord trait after the enemy army has spread out. They didn’t spread out? Then who cares if you can’t DS T1.

They will spread out their chaff even MORE making your distance toward the real meat that much harder...It was hard enough to charge anything worthwhile T1 especially without 3d6" charge. With T2 it becomes that much harder.

Not to mention if you are playing for example Maelstorm of wars missions, you are basically giving your opponent a free turn to score points while you are crippled without most of your army on the field

/shrug

7th had (with exceptions) no first turn Deepstrike at all, random turn for Deepstrike after that and no charge on Deepstrike as a principle. People still played deepstriking armies. If the current FAQ-8th-beta-rules had been the rules for 8th from the start, people would be bitching about how insanely overpowered they make deepstriking assault armies.


People just need to chill. Use turn 1 to dakka away some screen if it bothers you and strike turn 2 or 3 as and when it has the most payoff.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
/shrug

7th had (with exceptions) no first turn Deepstrike at all, random turn for Deepstrike after that and no charge on Deepstrike as a principle. People still played deepstriking armies. If the current FAQ-8th-beta-rules had been the rules for 8th from the start, people would be bitching about how insanely overpowered they make deepstriking assault armies.


People just need to chill. Use turn 1 to dakka away some screen if it bothers you and strike turn 2 or 3 as and when it has the most payoff.

I use Deathwing in my DA list. I would never DS turn 1. Even though the option is there. Just too much still on field opponent can use to focus fire them.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
/shrug

7th had (with exceptions) no first turn Deepstrike at all, random turn for Deepstrike after that and no charge on Deepstrike as a principle. People still played deepstriking armies. If the current FAQ-8th-beta-rules had been the rules for 8th from the start, people would be bitching about how insanely overpowered they make deepstriking assault armies.


People just need to chill. Use turn 1 to dakka away some screen if it bothers you and strike turn 2 or 3 as and when it has the most payoff.

They also had no more than 9" limit making stuff like melta and flamers viable and cheap chaff wasn't able to push you to DZ on your table half easily.

 nintura wrote:
Thousand Sons Tzaangor bomb is dead. Units can no longer be Warptimed after deepstriking.

I can't find that change.. where is it?

.

Nope. You can charge after DS, but you can't Advance, even from Warptime.

Check the 40k Rulebook FAQ.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
/shrug

7th had (with exceptions) no first turn Deepstrike at all, random turn for Deepstrike after that and no charge on Deepstrike as a principle. People still played deepstriking armies. If the current FAQ-8th-beta-rules had been the rules for 8th from the start, people would be bitching about how insanely overpowered they make deepstriking assault armies.


People just need to chill. Use turn 1 to dakka away some screen if it bothers you and strike turn 2 or 3 as and when it has the most payoff.

Shooting wasn't as lethal in 7th I never saw anyone tabled by turn two but I've seen it in 8th, melee was already lagging behind but now it's just not even worth considering for non horde armies.

Between Gate of Infinity and Interceptors, Grey Knights can do a decent first-turn charge, if/once people no longer expect it as the default of how every 40K game ever starts ever and we actually see armies without the same boring everybody-has-it-screen on the table again.

hobojebus wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
/shrug

7th had (with exceptions) no first turn Deepstrike at all, random turn for Deepstrike after that and no charge on Deepstrike as a principle. People still played deepstriking armies. If the current FAQ-8th-beta-rules had been the rules for 8th from the start, people would be bitching about how insanely overpowered they make deepstriking assault armies.


People just need to chill. Use turn 1 to dakka away some screen if it bothers you and strike turn 2 or 3 as and when it has the most payoff.

Shooting wasn't as lethal in 7th I never saw anyone tabled by turn two but I've seen it in 8th, melee was already lagging behind but now it's just not even worth considering for non horde armies.

This^^^^
This just made parking lot/gun line armies the only thing to play competitively. Also it seems (as usual) to impact xenos/chaos more heavily than imperium.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
/shrug

7th had (with exceptions) no first turn Deepstrike at all, random turn for Deepstrike after that and no charge on Deepstrike as a principle. People still played deepstriking armies. If the current FAQ-8th-beta-rules had been the rules for 8th from the start, people would be bitching about how insanely overpowered they make deepstriking assault armies.


People just need to chill. Use turn 1 to dakka away some screen if it bothers you and strike turn 2 or 3 as and when it has the most payoff.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, lets be clear about this, the main deep striking armies of 7th were allowed to brake all the rules. Steel Rain? Half your (free) drop pods plus the Skyhammer force all came in turn 1 and couldn't misshap unless you scattered off the board, and only idiots put the pods close enough to scatter off the board. Nemesis Strike Force? Everything was allowed to DS turn 1. I'm pretty sure that marines and chaos both ended up with ways for no scatter deep strike that you could then charge from by the end of 7th as well.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Between Gate of Infinity and Interceptors, Grey Knights can do a decent first-turn charge, if/once people no longer expect it as the default of how every 40K game ever starts ever and we actually see armies without the same boring everybody-has-it-screen on the table again.

You mean the gate of infinity that has to wait T2 to deep strike outside own deployment zone?

 quickfuze wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
/shrug

7th had (with exceptions) no first turn Deepstrike at all, random turn for Deepstrike after that and no charge on Deepstrike as a principle. People still played deepstriking armies. If the current FAQ-8th-beta-rules had been the rules for 8th from the start, people would be bitching about how insanely overpowered they make deepstriking assault armies.


People just need to chill. Use turn 1 to dakka away some screen if it bothers you and strike turn 2 or 3 as and when it has the most payoff.

Shooting wasn't as lethal in 7th I never saw anyone tabled by turn two but I've seen it in 8th, melee was already lagging behind but now it's just not even worth considering for non horde armies.

This^^^^
This just made parking lot/gun line armies the only thing to play competitively. Also it seems (as usual) to impact xenos/chaos more heavily than imperium.

This couldn't be more wrong. Shooting was the only way to play 7th unless you had an invisible death star rolling around. And that worked mainly because it was completely unkillable. My Drukhari has a lot of melee that is still very much usable, as does my Nids. I can see why the various marines and daemons armies would be salty though, they relied entirely on deep strike to get into combat.

Everyone realizes that the Tactical Reserves errata is in beta, right? If you don't like it, contact GW and let them know why.

Not been a lot of comment on this DG FAQ -

Q: If the Poxwalkers’ Curse of the Walking Pox ability increases
the unit above its starting strength in a matched play game,
does this cost reinforcement points?
A: Yes, you must pay reinforcement points for each
Poxwalker model that you add to the unit that would
increase the unit above its starting strength.

So am I right thinking that (for example) if i have a unit of 20 PW, I have to pay for a unit of 25 if i think i might kill enough troops to add an extra 5 models to the unit? And if they kill 10 without loss they can then still only increase the unit size by the extra 5 I've paid for???

yeah and they did somewhat listen to feedback.

In the first beta version of smite there wasn't an excpetion for brotherhood of sorcerers/psykers. There is in the final version. The nerf to TS/GK was the main concern and it was adressed.

 puma713 wrote:
Everyone realizes that the Tactical Reserves errata is in beta, right? If you don't like it, contact GW and let them know why.

Pishposh Sir!

That is not how one makes one's voice heard.

On to the Forum and shout, shout and shout again. That's the way to get things done! BAHHHHHH!

tneva82 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Between Gate of Infinity and Interceptors, Grey Knights can do a decent first-turn charge, if/once people no longer expect it as the default of how every 40K game ever starts ever and we actually see armies without the same boring everybody-has-it-screen on the table again.

You mean the gate of infinity that has to wait T2 to deep strike outside own deployment zone?

I’m reading Gate of Infinity to be not affected by the reserves rule.

The power allows you to re-deploy a unit on a successful cast. The unit has to be on the table already to do this.

The Tactical Reserves beta rule talks about units that are setup off the table. The 2nd paragraph then goes on to say that, if any of these units arrive on the battlefield during a player’s first turn, they must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone.
While it does not say it explicitly, because the 2 paragraphs are grouped together within the rule, I would take it to imply that the 2nd paragraph only affects units setup in ways referred to in the 1st paragraph.

Because the unit moving via GoI is already deployed on the table, it is not leaving the table and going into reserve, and then deploying from reserve, it is essentially just jumping from one point on the tabletop to another.

I’d say the same ruling comes into play for T’au Stealth Suits, when making the jump via the Ghostkeel stratagem.

Sure, I can accept and see that it needs FAQing (lol) but I’d rule it ok due to the unit not entering into a “reserve” like state.

Kdash wrote:

The power allows you to re-deploy a unit on a successful cast. The unit has to be on the table already to do this.

Yes. And then it left the battlefield. And then it enters it.

Because the unit moving via GoI is already deployed on the table, it is not leaving the table and going into reserve, and then deploying from reserve, it is essentially just jumping from one point on the tabletop to another.

What part "remove from the battlefield" makes you think it is not leaving the table?

Coupled with GOI etc counting as coming from reserve as per FAQ...

Alas until GW says otherwise I didn't even get to use Da Jump once. Just got orks into stage they can be fielded in 8th ed without crapload of proxy and then Da Jump goes and kommando died.

Myytti666 wrote:
Did I get the Death guard daemon prince change right? You can take a plague spewer but if you do, then you're stuck with the standard sword?

"This model may either take a plague spewer, or it may
replace its hellforged sword with a daemonic axe or a
second set of malefic talons."

That's how I read it too. Although I've been seeing the opposite from a lot of other people.


Though something I'll say again, as it seems to have got lost in the shuffle, why are CSM dreads allowed to take 2xHammer or Scourge now yet DG/TS dreads are not? Hurrah for consistency!

 puma713 wrote:
Everyone realizes that the Tactical Reserves errata is in beta, right? If you don't like it, contact GW and let them know why.

Apparently every group and tournament uses beta rules as if they were normal rules, which was news to me because it's an incredibly stupid thing to do but I'm assured by some very salty people on Dakka that this is the case. As is the "suggested" rule of three for tournaments. Apparently "suggestion" means something else outside of my group.

Reading this thread, it seems a number of people haven't noticed that the new FAQ PDF is not the only change. A lot of the individual codex and rulebook FAQs were updated with new changes as well.

Just throwing that out there for those who missed it

 GuardStrider wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:

GK can still charge T2 with a reroll from the Warlord trait after the enemy army has spread out. They didn’t spread out? Then who cares if you can’t DS T1.

They will spread out their chaff even MORE making your distance toward the real meat that much harder...It was hard enough to charge anything worthwhile T1 especially without 3d6" charge. With T2 it becomes that much harder.

Not to mention if you are playing for example Maelstorm of wars missions, you are basically giving your opponent a free turn to score points while you are crippled without most of your army on the field

You are an army full of bolters. You will clear any chaff that moves out of the deployment zone with your shooting so your DS can get to the meat T1. Before if you dropped T1 you would assult chaff, who left combat and got you killed. You will now have units, serious units, on the table to mitigate the chaff.

Also you can expect to see less hordes as Poxwalkers and Tide of Traitors is lessened.

A purgation squad deployed out of LOS with 4 psilencers will do a number on chaff that walks out of the deployment zone. They have Astral Aim afterall. What hurt that tactic before? Enemy deep strikers who dropped T1 and assaulted them or shot them on the side of the LOS terrain. Not anymore.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
Everyone realizes that the Tactical Reserves errata is in beta, right? If you don't like it, contact GW and let them know why.

Apparently every group and tournament uses beta rules as if they were normal rules, which was news to me because it's an incredibly stupid thing to do but I'm assured by some very salty people on Dakka that this is the case. As is the "suggested" rule of three for tournaments. Apparently "suggestion" means something else outside of my group.

People can't be bothered to live by the Ten Commandments in their daily lives, but some how the 40k FAQ is inviolable.

I was freaking out, I thought that the tactical reserves rule was for the ENTIRE game!

Now that I re-read it I see that it is only for the first turn, which I actually like as it should lead to games being closer for longer. No more getting completely blown off the table turn 1.

Yea, there is way too much complaining without considering the context of other armies. Folks are complaining about assault bombs being hit while not recognizing that things like 12 oblits that literally cannot get into range from DS turn 1 taking a bigger hit.

You need to look at all of it in context. This idea of armies spreading out unaddressed is silly as well, your not going to be playing with the same lists. If the enemy is waiting a full turn to DS in something and trying to spread out with garbage that gives you 2 turns to mulch and counter whats on the table. Also remember half an armies units can reserve whether inside a transport or not AND half your armies power level. This also is MASSIVE.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
Everyone realizes that the Tactical Reserves errata is in beta, right? If you don't like it, contact GW and let them know why.

Apparently every group and tournament uses beta rules as if they were normal rules, which was news to me because it's an incredibly stupid thing to do but I'm assured by some very salty people on Dakka that this is the case. As is the "suggested" rule of three for tournaments. Apparently "suggestion" means something else outside of my group.

I'd say a tournament organizer would be incredibly stupid not to run the beta so that GW can get accurate feedback and adjust accordingly. If your meta wants to do it's own thing, why is any FAQ an issue? Shouldn't your group already have ruled something to it's satisfaction and just go with it that? Why even engage the wider community if all you have to offer is to play the game at a localized house ruled format?

The beta is meant for the community at large all over the world. You and what your buddies do is irrelevant.

EldarExarch wrote:
I was freaking out, I thought that the tactical reserves rule was for the ENTIRE game!

Now that I re-read it I see that it is only for the first turn, which I actually like as it should lead to games being closer for longer. No more getting completely blown off the table turn 1.

Pretty much. It means there will be a turn of fighting for board control before killer units come in. This is a good thing. Now armies without infiltrators like nurglings, rangers and scouts can actually play the game.

I'm going to be -very- interested to see whether or not they take into consideration things like the Stealth Suit Homing Beacon or the Teleport Homer for Terminators.

Those would be two flavorful and interesting ways for armies to be able to bring stuff on via Deep Strike outside of their Deployment Zone without making it too crazy.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm going to be -very- interested to see whether or not they take into consideration things like the Stealth Suit Homing Beacon or the Teleport Homer for Terminators.

Those would be two flavorful and interesting ways for armies to be able to bring stuff on via Deep Strike outside of their Deployment Zone without making it too crazy.

Those already work still though, just not on first turn. I doubt they are going to make an exception there.