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The fact that GW stopped selling the Gangs of Commorragh box just as I wanted to order it is my typical luck

It's hard to justify 70 points just to give the re-rolls of 1 in close combat to fiendly drukhari units though.

It would have been nice with a rule that allowed him to restore D3 wounds to a friendly unit per turn. Some sort of drukhari doctor

It's not garbage but you really need lots of models within the bubble to make it decent at least. Something like 2-3 close combat oriented squads at least, but I was thinking about a cronos buffing 8-10 grots and 6 talos and eventually a wych unit or incubi to let it join the party.

Something that is really weird about this codex is the HQs wargear options: the archon loses the possibility of bringing a blaster, because in the age of "no model no rules" GW is removing options. But then the succubus can bring the wyches special weapons: why on earth can she have razorflails or hydra gauntlets while the archon can't take a blaster??

 Blackie wrote:

It would have been nice with a rule that allowed him to restore D3 wounds to a friendly unit per turn. Some sort of drukhari doctor

Honestly, I was really disappointed that Haemonculi didn't get that rule.

Letting them patch up our monsters mid-battle would have been fluffy, whilst also helping justify including multiples of them.

 Blackie wrote:

Something that is really weird about this codex is the HQs wargear options: the archon loses the possibility of bringing a blaster, because in the age of "no model no rules" GW is removing options. But then the succubus can bring the wyches special weapons: why on earth can she have razorflails or hydra gauntlets while the archon can't take a blaster??

That's a good point. The Archon even has access to a Venom Blade, which he's apparently allowed to freely pinch from Scourges. When I first read that, I foolishly thought he'd be allowed to pinch their wings as well.

Incidentally, there's an Archon on p96 that appears to have an illegal loadout - since he's holding a spear thing (possibly a Scourge's Power Lance) that he can't actually use.

I don't know, GW's policy on conversions makes no sense to me.

Their policy is just weird in general. I understand they'd remove something if they don't have the base body(or it is undefined like the Trueborns/bloodbrides), but removing weapon options that exist within the range is just strange. Blasters exist in several kits, much like the Fusion Gun in the Craftworld range.

 vipoid wrote:


Honestly, I was really disappointed that Haemonculi didn't get that rule.

Letting them patch up our monsters mid-battle would have been fluffy, whilst also helping justify including multiples of them.

We only have a stratagem for that: at the cost of a CP one haemonculus can restore D3 previously lost wounds to a grots, talos or cronos. Better than nothing but I also wish it was a free ability and not a stratagem.

So what are people's feelings about Hellions? Winning big or not?

So, not exactly tactics related, but relevant in that it might end up leading up to something that is in the near future. Has anyone else noticed that the plastic Archon model (you know, the guy who's really into hugging himself) has been removed from GW's website entirely? Like, not even out of stock, just gone. The only place he exists right now is the 2016 SC kit, which I assume is limited stocks.

Could this mean a new Archon kit is on its way? It's not like the old one was well liked (although to its credit, you can do some decent stuff with it if you're willing to do a lot of conversion work, it's just that the pose is awful). If they did, I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see a named character option included.

 Eldarsif wrote:
So what are people's feelings about Hellions? Winning big or not?

They're not garbage but bikes outperform them. Reavers have +1T, +1W, +4''M, they can advance with a flat 8'', and have AP-1 (1D instead of 2 but the AP is more versatile) and they can also take blasters and grav talons. Grav talons at 3ppm are a must take. Reavers are 19ppm and hellions 14ppm, but the min squad of reavers with 3 dudes has +1W and it's 13 points cheaper than the min squad of 5 hellions.

Its support, not going to do damage, its there as a multiplier for melee units. It really does need to be stronger tho IMO.

 Fafnir wrote:
So, not exactly tactics related, but relevant in that it might end up leading up to something that is in the near future. Has anyone else noticed that the plastic Archon model (you know, the guy who's really into hugging himself) has been removed from GW's website entirely? Like, not even out of stock, just gone. The only place he exists right now is the 2016 SC kit, which I assume is limited stocks.

Could this mean a new Archon kit is on its way? It's not like the old one was well liked (although to its credit, you can do some decent stuff with it if you're willing to do a lot of conversion work, it's just that the pose is awful). If they did, I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see a named character option included.

Seems weird they wouldn't release it at the same time as the actual codex.

In terms of getting a new model, I'd happily settle for the 5th edition one in plastic. I thought that one was fantastic.

GW appear to agree, because they've used his image on the front of the last 2 DE codices, rather than an image of the new Archon.

 vipoid wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
So, not exactly tactics related, but relevant in that it might end up leading up to something that is in the near future. Has anyone else noticed that the plastic Archon model (you know, the guy who's really into hugging himself) has been removed from GW's website entirely? Like, not even out of stock, just gone. The only place he exists right now is the 2016 SC kit, which I assume is limited stocks.

Could this mean a new Archon kit is on its way? It's not like the old one was well liked (although to its credit, you can do some decent stuff with it if you're willing to do a lot of conversion work, it's just that the pose is awful). If they did, I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see a named character option included.

Seems weird they wouldn't release it at the same time as the actual codex.

In terms of getting a new model, I'd happily settle for the 5th edition one in plastic. I thought that one was fantastic.

GW appear to agree, because they've used his image on the front of the last 2 DE codices, rather than an image of the new Archon.

It is an ugly model, but i bet its just for re-boxing. I would make me happy if they had the old one again tho.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
So, not exactly tactics related, but relevant in that it might end up leading up to something that is in the near future. Has anyone else noticed that the plastic Archon model (you know, the guy who's really into hugging himself) has been removed from GW's website entirely? Like, not even out of stock, just gone. The only place he exists right now is the 2016 SC kit, which I assume is limited stocks.

Could this mean a new Archon kit is on its way? It's not like the old one was well liked (although to its credit, you can do some decent stuff with it if you're willing to do a lot of conversion work, it's just that the pose is awful). If they did, I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see a named character option included.

Seems weird they wouldn't release it at the same time as the actual codex.

In terms of getting a new model, I'd happily settle for the 5th edition one in plastic. I thought that one was fantastic.

GW appear to agree, because they've used his image on the front of the last 2 DE codices, rather than an image of the new Archon.

It is an ugly model, but i bet its just for re-boxing. I would make me happy if they had the old one again tho.

Reboxing doesn't normally cause a model to vanish from the store entirely.

GW has removed models before from their store for reboxing, it's not uncommon.

But why would the Archon need to be reboxed? All of his stuff is modern, isn't it?

Drukhari had all their stuff reboxed last summer/autumn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:

 vipoid wrote:


Honestly, I was really disappointed that Haemonculi didn't get that rule.

Letting them patch up our monsters mid-battle would have been fluffy, whilst also helping justify including multiples of them.

We only have a stratagem for that: at the cost of a CP one haemonculus can restore D3 previously lost wounds to a grots, talos or cronos. Better than nothing but I also wish it was a free ability and not a stratagem.

On the upside, equivelant stratagems in other codecies usually cost 2CP where ours is 1.

I imagine it's because those equivalent stratagems tend to target creatures that cost more than a Talos.

With how cheap they are, unless you're in dire straits and NEED that Talos to stay alive for one more turn, I'd probably just neglect that stratagem entirely. At T7 3+/4++/6+++, if a one is about to go down, it's probably eaten enough firepower to have done its job already.

As for hellions, I am obsessed with the idea of a maxed squad using the fly over mortal wound stratagem. Because of their larger max unit size you get more from that stratagem with hellions over reavers.

dbhaack wrote:
As for hellions, I am obsessed with the idea of a maxed squad using the fly over mortal wound stratagem. Because of their larger max unit size you get more from that stratagem with hellions over reavers.

I think Hellions are interesting - and are theoretically monstrous.
But you lack the movement for a first turn attack (14"+1D6 is unlikely to reach unless they deploy right on the line, and if they see they are facing a big blob of Hellions they probably won't).
This means you are probably going to charge something (with Red Grief 14"+1+3D6 rerolling the charge makes that likely). You will then have to hope you don't get tied up - since you can't fall back and then advance to activate the stratagem.
If your opponent doesn't tie you up in combat they are going to shoot you - and Hellions are probably the best target for small arms in the DE army.

So all in all the odds of being able to use the stratagem with 20 hellions seems pretty remote .

I'd cautiously say that 12 reavers - who can put those mortal wounds onto anything in 26" - are better.
You are likely to make up the mortal wound difference with Grav Talons too when you charge in (assuming Red Grief, which I think is a requirement if you are building for that stratagem.

Hellions are true glasscannons. High damage very fragile, vs some armies they will be devastating! But against others they will just die turn 1 and do nothing.

Tyel wrote:

dbhaack wrote:
As for hellions, I am obsessed with the idea of a maxed squad using the fly over mortal wound stratagem. Because of their larger max unit size you get more from that stratagem with hellions over reavers.

I think Hellions are interesting - and are theoretically monstrous.
But you lack the movement for a first turn attack (14"+1D6 is unlikely to reach unless they deploy right on the line, and if they see they are facing a big blob of Hellions they probably won't).
This means you are probably going to charge something (with Red Grief 14"+1+3D6 rerolling the charge makes that likely). You will then have to hope you don't get tied up - since you can't fall back and then advance to activate the stratagem.
If your opponent doesn't tie you up in combat they are going to shoot you - and Hellions are probably the best target for small arms in the DE army.

So all in all the odds of being able to use the stratagem with 20 hellions seems pretty remote .

I'd cautiously say that 12 reavers - who can put those mortal wounds onto anything in 26" - are better.
You are likely to make up the mortal wound difference with Grav Talons too when you charge in (assuming Red Grief, which I think is a requirement if you are building for that stratagem.

See, my thoughts were like this.

Take both reavers and hellions, large squads, have the reavers fly over the chaff (5 man scout squads and such) and do the mortal wounds while blasting a target, the opponent has to deal with them in their face. Then the hellions hit the chaff, getting the 2+ movement drugs because their boards have a NOS intake valve that they put cocaine stolen from doom rider in. Then after your opponent kills the reavers because they are there the hellions should be free to move up and over a juicy target with their large squad, maybe use the stratagem to double their bonus to 4+" move. While all these shenanigans are going on your real threat (warriors, wytches, talos, what ever) is moving in for the kill.

I mean, everything is so cheap it seems, take multiples of them and be happy.

Aah I worked today, couldn't get the codex. But yeah everything is so cheap points-wise it won't be a problem having these blobs of Reavers/Hellions while maintaining a bunch of other stuff. it's 280 pts for 20 Hellions right ? There's more than Reavers and Hellions that can go head first into the opponent's lines, you should be able to advance more stuff to make target priority a dilemma for your opponent.

 Aaranis wrote:
Aah I worked today, couldn't get the codex. But yeah everything is so cheap points-wise it won't be a problem having these blobs of Reavers/Hellions while maintaining a bunch of other stuff. it's 280 pts for 20 Hellions right ? There's more than Reavers and Hellions that can go head first into the opponent's lines, you should be able to advance more stuff to make target priority a dilemma for your opponent.

Yeah, especially if you play cheaky and drop 2 squads of 3 talos in their face from there webway. What are you going to shoot at? The hellions that are a turn a way from being a threat, the reavers that are almost a threat, the talos that is a threat, or the 4 ravagers sitting back and blasting your tanks?

You can't deep strike a Talos. Grotesques would be an option, though. However, Talos/Grots/Ravagers vs Hellions/Reavers doesn't actually present much of a targeting priority dilemma. You shoot the big things with your big guns and the little things with your little guns.

I don't really see Hellions working out ever. They shoot terribly and they're pretty bad in CC against anything other than Primaris marines. They're made of paper and are only fairly fast. Even with +1A drugs, equal points in Guard Infantry handily beat them in CC (it's not close) and they only barely beat tactical Marines (ignoring the bolt pistols). Reavers are a no-brainer upgrade for 5 points.

I'm a complete Drukhari noob really, so my opinions aren't to be taken as valuable, but boy do I like this new codex! Even leaving aside everything else, my 50PL Drukhari force now costs 39PL. I get an extra 11PL worth of stuff to slot in.

So the advance + charge wytrches? How are they worded? Do transports get this?

There is also an advance 8 stratagem fpor transports is it?

what are the movements on the raider in the new codex?

Raiders are the same, 14" yes the raiders and your wyches can advance and charge.

Remember if you charge the raider with things inside you most likely will be surrounded and killed off everything.

Tho it is very very easy to get your full army turn 2 charges now, you can even have an army with almost all units turn 1 charge if you built it that way.

Thinking of joining the ranks, are two starter sets and a codex a good buy? Or skip the starters or just buy one?

I do notb think they are so easy to surounder. They are to be placed within 3", not whole within. yWith 25" or 32" there are often gaps unless they have many layers of models. You can do it with 40" bases, but these units are hard to come by. Perhaps bikes can do it. I feel confident they will survive.

If the opponent can suround it just charge it in with some other units like bikes.

I am planing one unit of kabal, and one fast attack unit of wytches.

ballzonya wrote:
Thinking of joining the ranks, are two starter sets and a codex a good buy? Or skip the starters or just buy one?

I just joined and bought the two starters, I think they are great since they give a good start in both kabal and wyches factions (HQ, troops, transports plus a fast attack choice), the units are good and the models look awesome.

My problem is what would be best next since almost everything looks good (on paper at least)

ballzonya wrote:
Thinking of joining the ranks, are two starter sets and a codex a good buy? Or skip the starters or just buy one?

Depends on whether you want to run Wyches or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 feltmonkey wrote:
I'm a complete Drukhari noob really, so my opinions aren't to be taken as valuable, but boy do I like this new codex! Even leaving aside everything else, my 50PL Drukhari force now costs 39PL. I get an extra 11PL worth of stuff to slot in.

Yeah, the points drops have been amazing, I'm running a 2K list tomorrow that would have been 2600pts in the index. Most of that saving ahs come from the bikes (a full 12 bike units is about 200pts cheaper now!), transports and Talos.