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**Tannhauser42**

Vaktathi wrote:
Right?

And now for the latest trick...Trump looks like he's going to fire Rosenstein and just pardoned Scooter Libby on the same day he goes on a twitter tirade about leaks...

Supposedly there will be a WH briefing between 2pm and 4pm EST on Rosenstein and possibly Sessions as well.

Meanwhile...

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/383041-rosenstein-privately-saying-hes-prepared-to-be-fired-by-trump-report

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/383044-trump-issues-pardon-for-scooter-libby

Meanwhile meanwhile, Trump has ordered a review of the USPS. Something good could actually come from this if it forces Congress to admit that making the USPS prefund their entire retirement system was an untenable idea.

**whembly**

Ash87 wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Right?

And now for the latest trick...Trump looks like he's going to fire Rosenstein and just pardoned Scooter Libby on the same day he goes on a twitter tirade about leaks...

Supposedly there will be a WH briefing between 2pm and 4pm EST on Rosenstein and possibly Sessions as well.

Meanwhile...

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/383041-rosenstein-privately-saying-hes-prepared-to-be-fired-by-trump-report

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/383044-trump-issues-pardon-for-scooter-libby

Everyone I follow has said that there is no chance he'll sack Rosenstein and Sessions over this.

...If he did, I mean...

Look, I personally have adopted this view of the current adminstration where... My preferred brand is in no way, at all in power? So... I'm sitting here watching everything go insane. If Trump Fires Both Rosenstein and Sessions, that's huge. Like, rouse me from my lethargic chuckling huge, because... I mean just, damn.

Just wanted to say about thehill... they're turning into a bombastic Breibart/TPM brand of politics.

Rosenstien is probably safe.

Sessions? I have no clue. The only reason to sack him is for Trump to put someone else in the AG seat to take control over the special council... ie, sacking Sessions, then placing Pruitt there.

If you see that... prepare for fireworks man.

**Ash87**

whembly wrote:
Ash87 wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Right?

And now for the latest trick...Trump looks like he's going to fire Rosenstein and just pardoned Scooter Libby on the same day he goes on a twitter tirade about leaks...

Supposedly there will be a WH briefing between 2pm and 4pm EST on Rosenstein and possibly Sessions as well.

Meanwhile...

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/383041-rosenstein-privately-saying-hes-prepared-to-be-fired-by-trump-report

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/383044-trump-issues-pardon-for-scooter-libby

Everyone I follow has said that there is no chance he'll sack Rosenstein and Sessions over this.

...If he did, I mean...

Look, I personally have adopted this view of the current adminstration where... My preferred brand is in no way, at all in power? So... I'm sitting here watching everything go insane. If Trump Fires Both Rosenstein and Sessions, that's huge. Like, rouse me from my lethargic chuckling huge, because... I mean just, damn.

Just wanted to say about thehill... they're turning into a bombastic Breibart/TPM brand of politics.

Rosenstien is probably safe.

Sessions? I have no clue. The only reason to sack him is for Trump to put someone else in the AG seat to take control over the special council... ie, sacking Sessions, then placing Pruitt there.

If you see that... prepare for fireworks man.

I don't think the Hill is that bad, I read them quite a bit, and as someone left of center I have never seen something they've written as overtly skewed unless it's an opinion article. Some of their opinion contributors are nuts, but they are very open that those are opinion pieces and not the regular news.

Oh God though, if he put Pruitt in Session's place, after all the weirdness surrounding Pruitt building his soundproof booth, thinking hippies were out to kill him, and firing people who disagreed with his opinions... People would have a collective stroke.

**infinite_array**

Tannhauser42 wrote:

Meanwhile meanwhile, Trump has ordered a review of the USPS. Something good could actually come from this if it forces Congress to admit that making the USPS prefund their entire retirement system was an untenable idea.

Actually, I find this really interesting. I know we get a lot of crap from people who shriek "Impeach!" at every chance they get when it's a President they don't like. But I'm currently reading Impeachment: A Citizen's Guide, and one of Sunstein's impeachable offenses seems to somewhat match what Trump's doing here.

The example is that a President uses the IRS to investigate a political opponent because he is a political opponent. This is not a high crime, but a constitutional misdemeanor, as a president can't use his authority to single out political opponents for law enforcement activity.

Trump's order to review the USPS could be argued to be an attack on Amazon, which Trump has publicly accused of abusing the USPS. Amazon is owned by Jeff Bezos, who owns the Washington Post, and both have been publicly disparaged by Trump.

So, would this not count as a President abusing his authority to single out a political opponent, and so creating an impeachable offense?

**whembly**

infinite_array wrote:
Tannhauser42 wrote:

Meanwhile meanwhile, Trump has ordered a review of the USPS. Something good could actually come from this if it forces Congress to admit that making the USPS prefund their entire retirement system was an untenable idea.

Actually, I find this really interesting. I know we get a lot of crap from people who shriek "Impeach!" at every chance they get when it's a President they don't like. But I'm currently reading Impeachment: A Citizen's Guide, and one of Sunstein's impeachable offenses seems to somewhat match what Trump's doing here.

The example is that a President uses the IRS to investigate a political opponent because he is a political opponent. This is not a high crime, but a constitutional misdemeanor, as a president can't use his authority to single out political opponents for law enforcement activity.

You mean like this IRS investigating political opponents?

Trump's order to review the USPS could be argued to be an attack on Amazon, which Trump has publicly accused of abusing the USPS. Amazon is owned by Jeff Bezos, who owns the Washington Post, and both have been publicly disparaged by Trump.

So, would this not count as a President abusing his authority to single out a political opponent, and so creating an impeachable offense?

Technically, Congress can impeach/remove the President for wearing the wrong tie. (tho, they'd sure pay a political price)

Although...Iinking this to Amazon seems a bit of a stretch.

**Tannhauser42**

whembly wrote:

Although...Iinking this to Amazon seems a bit of a stretch.

Not a stretch, not one bit. Trump has one helluva hateboner for Jeff Bezos because of the Washington Post. Trump has tweeted multiple times about this, one of them even shown in that article i linked.

**ScarletRose**

Although...Iinking this to Amazon seems a bit of a stretch.

Lol, I'm not sure if this is a serious post or not. He's repeatedly called out Amazon and Bezos in particular and made up a bunch of garbage about how USPS is dealing with Amazon. So of course ordering USPS to "investigate" this is totally unrelated right?

You mean like this IRS investigating political opponents?

Yeah, how dare anyone think anti-tax nuts might be evading taxes?

**infinite_array**

whembly wrote:
You mean like this IRS investigating political opponents?

Can you find me an exectuve order signed by President Obama that ordered the IRS to do that? Or any other proof of the President using his authority to do so?

Also, your article itself states that the only reason why the cases were closed was because it was the Trump administration throwing in the towel and forcing an apology, not that those right-wing organizations actually managed to prove that the IRS was unfairly targeting them.

Technically, Congress can impeach/remove the President for wearing the wrong tie. (tho, they'd sure pay a political price) Although...Iinking this to Amazon seems a bit of a stretch.

But that's not a high crime, nor a constitutional misdemeanor.

And you're saying it's not a stretch to think that Trump's executive order to investigate the USPS comes just over a week after he attacked Amazon for supposedly taking advantage of it - especially since, up to this point, the Trump Administration had done/said in regard to the USPS?

**whembly**

infinite_array wrote:
whembly wrote:
You mean like this IRS investigating political opponents?

Can you find me an exectuve order signed by President Obama that ordered the IRS to do that? Or any other proof of the President using his authority to do so?

Also, your article itself states that the only reason why the cases were closed was because it was the Trump administration throwing in the towel and forcing an apology, not that those right-wing organizations actually managed to prove that the IRS was unfairly targeting them.

Bet we'd have a *nod* and *wink* communique on Lerner's harddrive... oh wait, it crashed.

Technically, Congress can impeach/remove the President for wearing the wrong tie. (tho, they'd sure pay a political price) Although...Iinking this to Amazon seems a bit of a stretch.

But that's not a high crime, nor a constitutional misdemeanor.

Congress determines what is and what is not.... a High Crime or misdemeanor.

It's not a criminal process... rather its a political process. For good reason as it's Congress' own co-equal branch of nuclear powah over the President.

And you're saying it's not a stretch to think that Trump's executive order to investigate the USPS comes just over a week after he attacked Amazon for supposedly taking advantage of it - especially since, up to this point, the Trump Administration had done/said in regard to the USPS?

He's been attacking Bezo (Amazon and Washington Post owner) day one...

USPS need serious reforms... and not sure if that entity really can survive in it's current state.

**Ouze**

whembly wrote:
USPS need serious reforms... and not sure if that entity really can survive in it's current state.

The problems with the USPS are politically-motivated externalties, not a fundamental problem with the USPS.

**Ustrello**

So Whem, I've been waiting since the news came out a day ago but I want to know if you will be just as angry about Pruitt and his multiple secret email address as you were about Hillary and her emails. Ya know since you did say you would be if something like this came about during a Republican administration/government official.

Two Democratic senators said EPA Administrator Pruitt has been using three different “secret” epa.gov email accounts in addition to his official address and have asked the agency’s inspector general to look into the matter.

The allegation evokes memories of former EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson’s use of a second email address to correspond with people outside the agency. Jackson, who served under former President Barack Obama, used the alias “Richard Windsor” — apparently a name borrowed from a family dog.

Jackson’s email habits drew fiery condemnation on Capitol Hill, with House Republicans grilling her about the alias in a 2013 Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing nearly a year after she’d left the EPA and entered private business working for Apple Inc. Republicans accused Jackson of using the account to bypass Freedom of Information Act requirements and shield her emails from the public.

It turns out Donald Trump’s EPA administrator may be up to the same thing, according to an April 10 letter from senators Jeff Merkley of Oregon and Tom Carper of Delaware, the top Democrat on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

“With the use of multiple secret email accounts or addresses, we are concerned that the Office of the Administrator may be withholding information from the public in violation of valid FOIA requests,” the lawmakers wrote to EPA Inspector General Arthur Elkins Jr. “Our offices have received information indicating that the Administrator uses three different secret epa.gov email addresses in addition to his official email address: Pruitt.Scott@epa.gov.”

http://fortune.com/2018/04/12/epa-scott-pruitt-email-addresses/

**whembly**

Ustrello wrote:
So Whem, I've been waiting since the news came out a day ago but I want to know if you will be just as angry about Pruitt and his multiple secret email address as you were about Hillary and her emails. Ya know since you did say you would be if something like this came about during a Republican administration/government official.

Two Democratic senators said EPA Administrator Pruitt has been using three different “secret” epa.gov email accounts in addition to his official address and have asked the agency’s inspector general to look into the matter.

The allegation evokes memories of former EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson’s use of a second email address to correspond with people outside the agency. Jackson, who served under former President Barack Obama, used the alias “Richard Windsor” — apparently a name borrowed from a family dog.

Jackson’s email habits drew fiery condemnation on Capitol Hill, with House Republicans grilling her about the alias in a 2013 Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing nearly a year after she’d left the EPA and entered private business working for Apple Inc. Republicans accused Jackson of using the account to bypass Freedom of Information Act requirements and shield her emails from the public.

It turns out Donald Trump’s EPA administrator may be up to the same thing, according to an April 10 letter from senators Jeff Merkley of Oregon and Tom Carper of Delaware, the top Democrat on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

“With the use of multiple secret email accounts or addresses, we are concerned that the Office of the Administrator may be withholding information from the public in violation of valid FOIA requests,” the lawmakers wrote to EPA Inspector General Arthur Elkins Jr. “Our offices have received information indicating that the Administrator uses three different secret epa.gov email addresses in addition to his official email address: Pruitt.Scott@epa.gov.”

http://fortune.com/2018/04/12/epa-scott-pruitt-email-addresses/

Shady... but, at least it's a "epa.gov" account. Now that we know what those are, the public can engage FOIA request of all his .gov correspondences.

Those will see some daylight...as it should.

Whole 'nother ball of wax if he had used a gmail account or even a personal private server in his basement.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:
whembly wrote:
USPS need serious reforms... and not sure if that entity really can survive in it's current state.

The problems with the USPS are politically-motivated externalties, not a fundamental problem with the USPS.

You sure?

...seem to remember reading that USPS operating costs + non-operation costs like Pensions and the like perpetually puts them in the red every year.

**I'll update this when I find the sauce...**

**ChargerIIC**

whembly wrote:
Well... this is interesting...
Breaking: Referendum to Split Calif. Into 3 States Will Be on Ballot

My parents remembers when Alaska and Hawaii were added to the union as member states...

I've got a few thoughts:
1) I think this is really neat from a historical perspective...
2) Probably does make sense in the long term so that the government would be more responsive to the will of the people...
3) Adding 4 more Senators to Congress! o.O (54 would be the count) But the House members will probably remain unchanged...
4) Now it's time to be cynical... I think over time, this'll increase the Democrat's power base as I don't think the GOP will be able to hold onto the new North and South CA states.
5) We really need to admit Puerto Rico & USVI as a state.

However, if we going splitsville... I'd split CA into two states:

Spoiler:

I think this idea was shot down the last few times...

Not the first time a California split has been on the ballot. The democrats will never allow it as it would damage a power bloc formed from San Francisco/LA. They'd risk losing one half or the other, especially LA, where their lead is narrower than in San Fran.

**Wolfblade**

whembly wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:
whembly wrote:
USPS need serious reforms... and not sure if that entity really can survive in it's current state.

The problems with the USPS are politically-motivated externalties, not a fundamental problem with the USPS.

You sure?

...seem to remember reading that USPS operating costs + non-operation costs like Pensions and the like perpetually puts them in the red every year.

**I'll update this when I find the sauce...**

No, you're def right about them being in the red every year, as IIRC, the last thing I remember about it was they had a 10 years of straight losses as of Nov. 2016.

**Ouze**

It's almost like something changed in 2005!

**whembly**

Office of Inspector General (OIG) dropped this today:
https://static01.nyt.com/files/2018/us/politics/20180413a-doj-oig-mccabe-report.pdf

TL;DR: he was caught numerous times for lying about leaking inappropriate information to the media to the FBI and internal investigators. Essentially McCabe, Comey and J. Baker are throwing each other under the bus.

O.o

...and there's more coming...

**d-usa**

I know when I work on figuring out my finances. I always act hostile towards the one source of income I actually have.

**feeder**

RNC deputy finance chair Broidy quits after paying Playmate 1.6 million to abort illegitimate child.

Disgusting sauce.

**whembly**

feeder wrote:
RNC deputy finance chair Broidy quits after paying Playmate 1.6 million to abort illegitimate child.

Disgusting sauce.

Oh hey... that FBI Cohen raid is paying dividends eh?

No sympathy here though...

**feeder**

whembly wrote:
feeder wrote:
RNC deputy finance chair Broidy quits after paying Playmate 1.6 million to abort illegitimate child.

Disgusting sauce.

Oh hey... that FBI Cohen raid is paying dividends eh?

No sympathy here though...

Yeah, turns out Cohen is not just Trump's guy when it comes to paying off mistresses. Maybe it's on his business card under services offered.

**Ouze**

Man, it really is never the crime, always the coverup.

**whembly**

Ouze wrote:
Man, it really is never the crime, always the coverup.

Wait... it's a crime to cover up an abortion in NY?

**Wolfblade**

I think he's referring to a saying, not a specific crime.

**whembly**

Wolfblade wrote:
I think he's referring to a saying, not a specific crime.

Well...yeah.

The Coverups are usually the worst.

**Vaktathi**

Ouze wrote:
Man, it really is never the crime, always the coverup.

and will be, if anything, what sinks Trump I imagine. Theyll never find a "i liek you xoxoxo -Putin" note, it'll be Trump's tantrums that will get him sunk.

**NinthMusketeer**

ChargerIIC wrote:
whembly wrote:
Well... this is interesting...
Breaking: Referendum to Split Calif. Into 3 States Will Be on Ballot

My parents remembers when Alaska and Hawaii were added to the union as member states...

I've got a few thoughts:
1) I think this is really neat from a historical perspective...
2) Probably does make sense in the long term so that the government would be more responsive to the will of the people...
3) Adding 4 more Senators to Congress! o.O (54 would be the count) But the House members will probably remain unchanged...
4) Now it's time to be cynical... I think over time, this'll increase the Democrat's power base as I don't think the GOP will be able to hold onto the new North and South CA states.
5) We really need to admit Puerto Rico & USVI as a state.

However, if we going splitsville... I'd split CA into two states:

Spoiler:

I think this idea was shot down the last few times...

Not the first time a California split has been on the ballot. The democrats will never allow it as it would damage a power bloc formed from San Francisco/LA. They'd risk losing one half or the other, especially LA, where their lead is narrower than in San Fran.

Actually it sounds like this proposal would be two blue states with NorCal being swing. So I think the electoral aspect is a wash for Dems and they'd be more interested in the actual benefits/downsides to the state(s).

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Does President Trump actually have much to worry about whatever he did regarding Russia, Stormy Daniels or anything else?

Doesn't his position as President allow him to issue himself a pardon for anything (federal) he ever did? It's not something a normal politician would ever contemplate as they'd be killing any chance of future party support (and quite possibly burying their party for the foreseeable future too)

but since he seems to basically just care about himself (and whoever agrees with him at the time) he wouldn't care that much, and it might even think it was the perfect way to sign off on his presidency?

**whembly**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Does President Trump actually have much to worry about whatever he did regarding Russia, Stormy Daniels or anything else?

Doesn't his position as President allow him to issue himself a pardon for anything (federal) he ever did? It's not something a normal politician would ever contemplate as they'd be killing any chance of future party support (and quite possibly burying their party for the foreseeable future too)

but since he seems to basically just care about himself (and whoever agrees with him at the time) he wouldn't care that much, and it might even think it was the perfect way to sign off on his presidency?

He can only pardon himself for things before the presidency... not during.

But still, Congress can impeach/remove him from office.

**Ouze**

whembly wrote:
Ouze wrote:
Man, it really is never the crime, always the coverup.

Wait... it's a crime to cover up an abortion in NY?

it's an idiom. There are innumerous cases of people getting bagged not for the original offense, but for a clumsy coverup. Nixon is a good example of this, as is Bill Clinton, and the most topical one:

Vaktathi wrote:
and will be, if anything, what sinks Trump I imagine. Theyll never find a "i liek you xoxoxo -Putin" note, it'll be Trump's tantrums that will get him sunk.

Because he probably didn't really commit any serious crimes or collusion, but he almost certainly obstructed justice for those who did.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Does President Trump actually have much to worry about whatever he did regarding Russia, Stormy Daniels or anything else?

I think it's impossible to say without knowing what Mueller has.

**NinthMusketeer**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Does President Trump actually have much to worry about whatever he did regarding Russia, Stormy Daniels or anything else?

Doesn't his position as President allow him to issue himself a pardon for anything (federal) he ever did? It's not something a normal politician would ever contemplate as they'd be killing any chance of future party support (and quite possibly burying their party for the foreseeable future too)

but since he seems to basically just care about himself (and whoever agrees with him at the time) he wouldn't care that much, and it might even think it was the perfect way to sign off on his presidency?

Assuming the power to pardon does go that far and he does actually use it, he is far from home free. Because that means there was confirmed guilt and there is a ton of simmering anger against Trump as it stands without proof of guilt. The amount of protests and riots that would ensue would bring the nation to a standstill. His businesses would also likely be ruined, literally. He would leave the Presidency as the most hated man on the planet, and remember this is a man who derives income from renting out his name, and his assets would be in shambles. Pardoning himself would only be a more brutal way of destroying him than the punishment for the crime.