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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

That's the one thing I could never understand about the USA: why do they let Israel dictate to them?

As you say, Israel couldn't survive without the USA, so you would think that a bell would ring in Washington and they'd realise they could lay down the law to Israel and get them to do the USA's bidding, and not the reverse.

In 1940, after the Fall of France, and Britain was facing the Nazis alone, they were desperate for guns after Dunkirk, so they approach the USA.

And Uncle Sam says: you can have all the guns you want, but let's see the money first...

The USA can be hard nosed and pragmatic when they want to be...

Israel has become an American political battleground. The Israelis have played the game wonderfully well. Meanwhile the US is playing a game of chicken with a brick wall. Scoring political points on who supports Israel the loudest has become incredibly detrimental to US foreign policy in the Middle East. Sure protect Israel, but don't do it at the cost of your own place in the region. This whole Iran deal renegement was heavily driven by the Israeli lobby, the only country benefitting from it. The strings have never been more visible.

 d-usa wrote:
Other than “betting is immoral” it’s always been a weird law.

This.

Sports anti-gambling laws are just another of our really silly hypocrisies. Like how prostitution is legal so long as its filmed and streamed over the internet.

Israel has become an American political battleground

It sure has, and as a student of American history, it reminds me of the USA's fascination with China and the political battles that went on in Washington during the 1930s/1940s/1950s before China went Communist, and the fallout in Washington after China went red...

If you know your LBJ, the spectre of repeating the China debacle was one of the reasons why he went into Vietnam.

He didn't want the Democrats to be seen 'losing' another Asian country.

Fascinating stuff, and it's why I love American history.

Never a dull minute.

 whembly wrote:

How will you see? Its already abundantly clear the only big supporter of this move is Israel. Who is already geopolitically tied to the US in such a manner that it can't just walk away. What did this actually achieve for the US?

That under any scenario, Israel is here to stay.

What? That was already the reality before this decision. Again, what did the US actually achieve with this besides shifting some staff from Tel Aviv and pissing off everybody?

 LordofHats wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Other than “betting is immoral” it’s always been a weird law.

This.

Sports anti-gambling laws are just another of our really silly hypocrisies. Like how prostitution is legal so long as its filmed and streamed over the internet.

I'm reading Alito's opinion and the man sure luuuuuuuuuuuurves his federalism.

However, feds can pass a new law to prohibit sports gambling, as long as it's kosher to this ruling. However I doubt we'll have see it hit the floor in Congress...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

How will you see? Its already abundantly clear the only big supporter of this move is Israel. Who is already geopolitically tied to the US in such a manner that it can't just walk away. What did this actually achieve for the US?

That under any scenario, Israel is here to stay.

What? That was already the reality before this decision. Again, what did the US actually achieve with this besides shifting some staff from Tel Aviv and pissing off everybody?

It puts the ball in the Palestinian's court in future negotiation.... if they choose to stop perpetuating violence.

 whembly wrote:
[
Negotiated peace can only begin when Hamas/Hezbellah stop perpetuating violence.

Gazans in general I have no sympathy... as their OWN bloody fundamentalist authority is to blame for makeing their lives miserable. NOT the IDF...which is defending it's border, not in Gaza, to protect its own civilians from this bs. There OWN leadership still hangs GAYS in public squares! What a bunch of civilized leaders...eh? Not.

This is like saying that if a bunch of people on our southern boarder started throwing explosives into the US in "protest" of our immigration laws, and our military retaliated against them, that we're killing "immigrants" who are "peacefully protesting". Does ANY of this sound logical to you?

How does Israels continued and expanding illegal occupation and settlement of Palestine figure into this view?

This isn't a "good guys vs bad guys" scenario. This is real life geopolitics. It's "bad guys vs bad guys" and thousands of civilians dying.

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

How will you see? Its already abundantly clear the only big supporter of this move is Israel. Who is already geopolitically tied to the US in such a manner that it can't just walk away. What did this actually achieve for the US?

That under any scenario, Israel is here to stay.

What? That was already the reality before this decision. Again, what did the US actually achieve with this besides shifting some staff from Tel Aviv and pissing off everybody?

It puts the ball in the Palestinian's court in future negotiation.... if they choose to stop perpetuating violence.

Again, what? You know what it does, justify the occupation of East Jerusalem by Israel. The US has just sidelined itself as a participant in the peace progress because of its blatant favoritism. This is like saying, well now that North Korea owns Seoul maybe the South Koreans can finally be honest in wanting peace.

The idea that this has done anything to stop the violence is just idealism. The US has just supported the blatant occupation of Palestinian territory by Israel. This doesn't put the ball in the Palestinian's court, this kicked the ball into the grass and told Israel to have fun with US backing. You made it much harder to force Israel to accept Palestine as a state and weakened Palestine. At this rate there will be no incentive for Israel to negotiate and just continue apartheid.

You have to remember, just like the Iran deal, the whole reason for this Embassy move is to intentionally move everyone closer to war..... not closer to peace. Instability in the Middle East is seen as a positive for Con diplomacy as part of their War of Civilizations schtick.

 Easy E wrote:
You have to remember, just like the Iran deal, the whole reason for this Embassy move is to intentionally move everyone closer to war..... not closer to peace. Instability in the Middle East is seen as a positive for Con diplomacy as part of their War of Civilizations schtick.

Well Pompeo and Bolton seem to be good old fashioned Neocons. The clash of civilizations is such 2000's garbage. Its sad such a gullible man is in charge now, and we still have 2.5 years to go. Maybe in another year and a half he will hand Xi Taiwan.

 whembly wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Other than “betting is immoral” it’s always been a weird law.

This.

Sports anti-gambling laws are just another of our really silly hypocrisies. Like how prostitution is legal so long as its filmed and streamed over the internet.

I'm reading Alito's opinion and the man sure luuuuuuuuuuuurves his federalism.

However, feds can pass a new law to prohibit sports gambling, as long as it's kosher to this ruling. However I doubt we'll have see it hit the floor in Congress...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

How will you see? Its already abundantly clear the only big supporter of this move is Israel. Who is already geopolitically tied to the US in such a manner that it can't just walk away. What did this actually achieve for the US?

That under any scenario, Israel is here to stay.

What? That was already the reality before this decision. Again, what did the US actually achieve with this besides shifting some staff from Tel Aviv and pissing off everybody?

It puts the ball in the Palestinian's court in future negotiation.... if they choose to stop perpetuating violence.

yes, because the people without a real functioning government, with nobody capable of dealing with extremist elements, that is literally walled off from the rest of the world, is economically devastated, is currently sitting at a casualty ratio orders of magnitude larger than their opponents over the last 20 years of conflict, where most live lives of poverty, and continually faces further pressure as settlements and outposts are built and expanded, that's really where the ball lays...yeah, ok. What fairytale did that come from? In what world is the Palestinian government capable of undertaking that task? A lot of effort has gone into ensuring that there is no functioning Palestinian government (by everyine from Israel to Lebanon and Syria and the US and Saudi Arabia and Egypt and others).

One side has overwhelming military power, economic power, and foreign power backing, with largely well functioning government and civil institutions. The ball is in that court, by definition. The other side has very little agency.

The game the Israeli's have chosen to play is "wall it off, hammer the Palestinians every few years when they get uppity, trim the grass so to speak, and otherwise just get everyone to ignore the issue while we do our thing and continue to build and displace".

More to the point however, the US has now probably ceded any positive role it could play in any negotiations for the foreseeable future, and stoked tensions and laid the groundwork for yet more bloodshed. Huzzah!

I'm not seeing where this move does anything to further peace interests.

 Easy E wrote:
You have to remember, just like the Iran deal, the whole reason for this Embassy move is to intentionally move everyone closer to war..... not closer to peace. Instability in the Middle East is seen as a positive for Con diplomacy as part of their War of Civilizations schtick.

Sadly, the people that start these wars are never the people who go and fight them.

It'll be the poor of America that does the fighting and the dying...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The game the Israeli's have chosen to play is "wall it off, hammer the Palestinians every few years when they get uppity, trim the grass so to speak, and otherwise just get everyone to ignore the issue while we do our thing and continue to build and displace".

And sadly, they will become a desperate people with nothing to lose and see violence as the only way out.

That makes them far more dangerous for Israel, not less. But they're too short-sighted to see that in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.

 feeder wrote:

 whembly wrote:
[
Negotiated peace can only begin when Hamas/Hezbellah stop perpetuating violence.

Gazans in general I have no sympathy... as their OWN bloody fundamentalist authority is to blame for makeing their lives miserable. NOT the IDF...which is defending it's border, not in Gaza, to protect its own civilians from this bs. There OWN leadership still hangs GAYS in public squares! What a bunch of civilized leaders...eh? Not.

This is like saying that if a bunch of people on our southern boarder started throwing explosives into the US in "protest" of our immigration laws, and our military retaliated against them, that we're killing "immigrants" who are "peacefully protesting". Does ANY of this sound logical to you?

How does Israels continued and expanding illegal occupation and settlement of Palestine figure into this view?

This isn't a "good guys vs bad guys" scenario. This is real life geopolitics. It's "bad guys vs bad guys" and thousands of civilians dying.

What illegal occupation? East Jerusalem?

Palestine "claims" that land... but, they never held it as a state. Israel kicked everyone's asses in '67, if nothing else its theirs by conquest. Palestine need to understand that they're being used as a proxy war here...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

And sadly, they will become a desperate people with nothing to lose and see violence as the only way out.

That makes them far more dangerous for Israel, not less. But they're too short-sighted to see that in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.

I think its the opposite really. Israel actively cultivates extremism because it can use it to validate all that it does. Without the extremism it would be a lot harder for Israel to hold on to its current borders and not be pressured into a peace process by its allies. Netanyahu willingly sacrifices Israeli lives yearly to maintain his Greater Israel dream. Nationalism at its finest pushed them to convince the US to move its embassy. Those lives lost be damned, if anything it is good for them during elections. Playing the tough guy saving Israel from a situation you yourself engineered.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

The game the Israeli's have chosen to play is "wall it off, hammer the Palestinians every few years when they get uppity, trim the grass so to speak, and otherwise just get everyone to ignore the issue while we do our thing and continue to build and displace".

And sadly, they will become a desperate people with nothing to lose and see violence as the only way out.

That makes them far more dangerous for Israel, not less. But they're too short-sighted to see that in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.

 whembly wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 whembly wrote:
[
Negotiated peace can only begin when Hamas/Hezbellah stop perpetuating violence.

Gazans in general I have no sympathy... as their OWN bloody fundamentalist authority is to blame for makeing their lives miserable. NOT the IDF...which is defending it's border, not in Gaza, to protect its own civilians from this bs. There OWN leadership still hangs GAYS in public squares! What a bunch of civilized leaders...eh? Not.

This is like saying that if a bunch of people on our southern boarder started throwing explosives into the US in "protest" of our immigration laws, and our military retaliated against them, that we're killing "immigrants" who are "peacefully protesting". Does ANY of this sound logical to you?

How does Israels continued and expanding illegal occupation and settlement of Palestine figure into this view?

This isn't a "good guys vs bad guys" scenario. This is real life geopolitics. It's "bad guys vs bad guys" and thousands of civilians dying.

What illegal occupation? East Jerusalem?

Palestine "claims" that land... but, they never held it as a state. Israel kicked everyone's asses in '67, if nothing else its theirs by conquest. Palestine need to understand that they're being used as a proxy war here...

Have you missed the fact that everybody except the US sees it as Palestinian and so does international law. This is literally like the US building its Russian embassy in Crimea tomorrow. You need to understand international law and geopolitics at work here. So much is being thrown away by the US for empty symbolism. 67 was the definition of a war of aggression. The same crime the US hanged people over at Nuremberg.

Israel killed Americans in 67. Jordan was obliged to help Egypt when Israel attacked. Conquest is not recognized anymore. To argue such is to further dismantle US normative empire. Its tearing down the foundations.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

How will you see? Its already abundantly clear the only big supporter of this move is Israel. Who is already geopolitically tied to the US in such a manner that it can't just walk away. What did this actually achieve for the US?

That under any scenario, Israel is here to stay.

What? That was already the reality before this decision. Again, what did the US actually achieve with this besides shifting some staff from Tel Aviv and pissing off everybody?

It puts the ball in the Palestinian's court in future negotiation.... if they choose to stop perpetuating violence.

Again, what? You know what it does, justify the occupation of East Jerusalem by Israel.

You mean land that Israel conquered in war of '67 and continually being offered PARTS of such land in past negotiation, in which Palestine refused because they wanted ALL of Jerusalem (and the right of return).

The US has just sidelined itself as a participant in the peace progress because of its blatant favoritism. This is like saying, well now that North Korea owns Seoul maybe the South Koreans can finally be honest in wanting peace.

Being neutral is dumber.

Palestine is not in a position of negotiating strength. However, they, and the rest of the world wants Isreal to destroy itself in such negotiations...

The idea that this has done anything to stop the violence is just idealism. The US has just supported the blatant occupation of Palestinian territory by Israel. This doesn't put the ball in the Palestinian's court, this kicked the ball into the grass and told Israel to have fun with US backing. You made it much harder to force Israel to accept Palestine as a state and weakened Palestine. At this rate there will be no incentive for Israel to negotiate and just continue apartheid.

"apartheid"... How on earth does it apply here?

Palestine need to kick the Hamas (and Hezbellah) to the curb. Otherwise, they'll be stuck in being pawns with no agency to their lives.

If Jordan takes back West Bank and Syria takes back Golan Heights... the world would be a better place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 whembly wrote:
[
Negotiated peace can only begin when Hamas/Hezbellah stop perpetuating violence.

Gazans in general I have no sympathy... as their OWN bloody fundamentalist authority is to blame for makeing their lives miserable. NOT the IDF...which is defending it's border, not in Gaza, to protect its own civilians from this bs. There OWN leadership still hangs GAYS in public squares! What a bunch of civilized leaders...eh? Not.

This is like saying that if a bunch of people on our southern boarder started throwing explosives into the US in "protest" of our immigration laws, and our military retaliated against them, that we're killing "immigrants" who are "peacefully protesting". Does ANY of this sound logical to you?

How does Israels continued and expanding illegal occupation and settlement of Palestine figure into this view?

This isn't a "good guys vs bad guys" scenario. This is real life geopolitics. It's "bad guys vs bad guys" and thousands of civilians dying.

What illegal occupation? East Jerusalem?

Palestine "claims" that land... but, they never held it as a state. Israel kicked everyone's asses in '67, if nothing else its theirs by conquest. Palestine need to understand that they're being used as a proxy war here...

Have you missed the fact that everybody except the US sees it as Palestinian and so does international law. This is literally like the US building its Russian embassy in Crimea tomorrow. You need to understand international law and geopolitics at work here. So much is being thrown away by the US for empty symbolism. 67 was the definition of a war of aggression. The same crime the US hanged people over at Nuremberg.

Holy feth balls.. .dude, Israel was ATTACKED in '67! If anything, those Arab leaders need to be the ones hung from Nuremberg's lamp post.

As much as I would love to keep talking about this, we should probably do it in the other Israel thread.

 Easy E wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

The game the Israeli's have chosen to play is "wall it off, hammer the Palestinians every few years when they get uppity, trim the grass so to speak, and otherwise just get everyone to ignore the issue while we do our thing and continue to build and displace".

And sadly, they will become a desperate people with nothing to lose and see violence as the only way out.

That makes them far more dangerous for Israel, not less. But they're too short-sighted to see that in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.

Oh, I am pretty sure the hardliners and Fundies get it. In fact, they are counting on it. Palestinian violence gives them the cover to continue to keep fighting and carving away at the Palestinians.

 LordofHats wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Other than “betting is immoral” it’s always been a weird law.

This.

Sports anti-gambling laws are just another of our really silly hypocrisies. Like how prostitution is legal so long as its filmed and streamed over the internet.

Or take her to dinner first. At any rate, good call by the SCotUS.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
That makes them far more dangerous for Israel, not less. But they're too short-sighted to see that in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.

They aren't. Netanyahu's government is in huge trouble right now. The Prime Minister faces serious accusations of corruptions and he uses anti-Iran and anti-Palestenian sentiment to keep people distracted and avoid a vote of destitution that would cripple his political faction and expose him to hard time. The hard right of Israel, supported by religious fundamentalists, is scared that the defeat of Netanyahu would result in a center left party to take control of of the Knesset with the support of Arab and secular jewish parties. These are parties opposed to religious fundamentalist privileges (like not facing conscription) and to the colonies. They also favor a two-State solution to the conflict (though they all support the annexation of Jerusalem and the Golan Height). The strategy of the hard right in Israel is to keep the Palestinian government inefficient and violent to legitimate violence against them, seize lands and displace them in other Arab countries so that they become the problems of someone else.

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

How will you see? Its already abundantly clear the only big supporter of this move is Israel. Who is already geopolitically tied to the US in such a manner that it can't just walk away. What did this actually achieve for the US?

That under any scenario, Israel is here to stay.

What? That was already the reality before this decision. Again, what did the US actually achieve with this besides shifting some staff from Tel Aviv and pissing off everybody?

It puts the ball in the Palestinian's court in future negotiation.... if they choose to stop perpetuating violence.

Again, what? You know what it does, justify the occupation of East Jerusalem by Israel.

You mean land that Israel conquered in war of '67 and continually being offered PARTS of such land in past negotiation, in which Palestine refused because they wanted ALL of Jerusalem (and the right of return)..

They offer scraps of the worst land while continuing to build illegal settlements. Israeli claims are just as unreasonable. Again, right of conquest is not recognized. Hell the US went to war with Iraq over its conquest of Kuwait.

 whembly wrote:

The US has just sidelined itself as a participant in the peace progress because of its blatant favoritism. This is like saying, well now that North Korea owns Seoul maybe the South Koreans can finally be honest in wanting peace.

Being neutral is dumber.
Palestine is not in a position of negotiating strength. However, they, and the rest of the world wants Isreal to destroy itself in such negotiations...

This shows a lack of geopolitical understanding. Being neutral is smart, because it allows the US to get the best deal out of it for itself, instead of blindly towing the Israeli line. Nobody needs to let Israel get destroyed. Israel is a big boy.

 whembly wrote:

The idea that this has done anything to stop the violence is just idealism. The US has just supported the blatant occupation of Palestinian territory by Israel. This doesn't put the ball in the Palestinian's court, this kicked the ball into the grass and told Israel to have fun with US backing. You made it much harder to force Israel to accept Palestine as a state and weakened Palestine. At this rate there will be no incentive for Israel to negotiate and just continue apartheid.

"apartheid"... How on earth does it apply here?

Palestine need to kick the Hamas (and Hezbellah) to the curb. Otherwise, they'll be stuck in being pawns with no agency to their lives.

If Jordan takes back West Bank and Syria takes back Golan Heights... the world would be a better place.

It applies because Israel does not see the Palestinians as part of a rightful country. Israel does what it wants to the Palestinians. When Israelis like a patch of land they see they force the Palestinians off at gunpoint and build a settlement. When one of your family members attacks an Israeli they bulldoze your house. How is it not 21st century apartheid?

Palestine can't kick Hamas to the curb because Hamas is a terror organization that basically used discontent from israel treating Gaza like a prison camp to seize control. Palestine doesn't have the strength to force Hamas out of Gaza and Israeli actions only tighten Hamas' grip. Hezbollah is Lebaneze, so I don't know hpw you would slide that on Palestine? The West Bank is much better than Gaza, yet Israel treats all of the Palestinian territories like they are run by Hamas.

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

Have you missed the fact that everybody except the US sees it as Palestinian and so does international law. This is literally like the US building its Russian embassy in Crimea tomorrow. You need to understand international law and geopolitics at work here. So much is being thrown away by the US for empty symbolism. 67 was the definition of a war of aggression. The same crime the US hanged people over at Nuremberg.

Holy feth balls.. .dude, Israel was ATTACKED in '67! If anything, those Arab leaders need to be the ones hung from Nuremberg's lamp post.

Uhm you should brush up on your history. Israel attacked first in 67 thereby triggering the Jordanian defensive treaty enabling Israel to annex Jerusalem, you're thinking of 73. If Israel had not done so it would not have been able to attack Jordan and annex those territories. Its plain illegal to annex them. While realistically its going to be hard to downright impossible to make Israel give up all post 67 territory, it is mental to basically allow Israel to have all of Jerusalem. Its incredibly destabilizing. And you're still stuck on Israeli motivations. What does this give to the US in the long run, what is so important that East Jerusalem needed to have a US embassy. Again' recognizing conquered territory as valid is deconstructing US normative empire since 45.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Uhm you should brush up on your history. Israel attacked first in 67

More specifically, Israel preemptively struck in response to what was ultimately the world's dumbest game of chicken. Chicken because the Arab states on the other side had no real intention of doing anything more than some really aggressive saber rattling, and dumb because Israel is so insanely paranoid they're literally incapable of recognizing who is and isn't a threat to their country half the time and apparently Egypt didn't bother to let them know "we're just screwing with you" through the very numerous channels they could have used to get the message across.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Uhm you should brush up on your history. Israel attacked first in 67

More specifically, Israel preemptively struck in response to what was ultimately the world's dumbest game of chicken. Chicken because the Arab states on the other side had no real intention of doing anything more than some really aggressive saber rattling, and dumb because Israel is so insanely paranoid they're literally incapable of recognizing who is and isn't a threat to their country half the time and apparently Egypt didn't bother to let them know "we're just screwing with you" through the very numerous channels they could have used to get the message across.

Was going to say the six day war was egypts fault lets be honest

 whembly wrote:

 feeder wrote:

 whembly wrote:
[
Negotiated peace can only begin when Hamas/Hezbellah stop perpetuating violence.

Gazans in general I have no sympathy... as their OWN bloody fundamentalist authority is to blame for makeing their lives miserable. NOT the IDF...which is defending it's border, not in Gaza, to protect its own civilians from this bs. There OWN leadership still hangs GAYS in public squares! What a bunch of civilized leaders...eh? Not.

This is like saying that if a bunch of people on our southern boarder started throwing explosives into the US in "protest" of our immigration laws, and our military retaliated against them, that we're killing "immigrants" who are "peacefully protesting". Does ANY of this sound logical to you?

How does Israels continued and expanding illegal occupation and settlement of Palestine figure into this view?

This isn't a "good guys vs bad guys" scenario. This is real life geopolitics. It's "bad guys vs bad guys" and thousands of civilians dying.

What illegal occupation? East Jerusalem?

Are you genuinely unaware of the Israeli settlements in Palestine?

 Ustrello wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Uhm you should brush up on your history. Israel attacked first in 67

More specifically, Israel preemptively struck in response to what was ultimately the world's dumbest game of chicken. Chicken because the Arab states on the other side had no real intention of doing anything more than some really aggressive saber rattling, and dumb because Israel is so insanely paranoid they're literally incapable of recognizing who is and isn't a threat to their country half the time and apparently Egypt didn't bother to let them know "we're just screwing with you" through the very numerous channels they could have used to get the message across.

Was going to say the six day war was egypts fault lets be honest

While Egypt played it very dumb, the law as the US itself has laid down is pretty clear on conquering territory. Its a strange thing to support when it comes to Israel when it devalues international law that forms the backbone of US empire. Israel has treated the US as a doormat as well, so its curious that the US is willing to go so far with its support. Still, this doesn't bring any answer to what possible benefit this embassy move brings.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Uhm you should brush up on your history. Israel attacked first in 67

More specifically, Israel preemptively struck in response to what was ultimately the world's dumbest game of chicken. Chicken because the Arab states on the other side had no real intention of doing anything more than some really aggressive saber rattling, and dumb because Israel is so insanely paranoid they're literally incapable of recognizing who is and isn't a threat to their country half the time and apparently Egypt didn't bother to let them know "we're just screwing with you" through the very numerous channels they could have used to get the message across.

Was going to say the six day war was egypts fault lets be honest

While Egypt played it very dumb, the law as the US itself has laid down is pretty clear on conquering territory. Its a strange thing to support when it comes to Israel when it devalues international law that forms the backbone of US empire. Israel has treated the US as a doormat as well, so its curious that the US is willing to go so far with its support. Still, this doesn't bring any answer to what possible benefit this embassy move brings.

It could help with the midterms by gaining favor with the evangelical wing of the Republican bad and mitigate opposition from blacks and Hispanics since both demographic groups have a higher percentage of devout Christians than whites.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Uhm you should brush up on your history. Israel attacked first in 67

More specifically, Israel preemptively struck in response to what was ultimately the world's dumbest game of chicken. Chicken because the Arab states on the other side had no real intention of doing anything more than some really aggressive saber rattling, and dumb because Israel is so insanely paranoid they're literally incapable of recognizing who is and isn't a threat to their country half the time and apparently Egypt didn't bother to let them know "we're just screwing with you" through the very numerous channels they could have used to get the message across.

Was going to say the six day war was egypts fault lets be honest

While Egypt played it very dumb, the law as the US itself has laid down is pretty clear on conquering territory. Its a strange thing to support when it comes to Israel when it devalues international law that forms the backbone of US empire. Israel has treated the US as a doormat as well, so its curious that the US is willing to go so far with its support. Still, this doesn't bring any answer to what possible benefit this embassy move brings.

It could help with the midterms by gaining favor with the evangelical wing of the Republican bad and mitigate opposition from blacks and Hispanics since both demographic groups have a higher percentage of devout Christians than whites.

Honestly I think the battle lines for this election are already drawn on bigger US focussed issues. I can't imagine people hardcore enough about Israel that haven't already sided with the Republican party after Obama let the US veto in the UN slip. Its a theory, but would that be the one on the minds of the Trump admin?

Something to note with the embassy thing, the pastor that Trump sent in for the event, Robert Jefress, is known for publicly advocating about how "Jews are going to hell" and "Islam is a false religion", and of course is a Fox News talking head. It's not hard to see what kind of driver was being the embassy move.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Uhm you should brush up on your history. Israel attacked first in 67

More specifically, Israel preemptively struck in response to what was ultimately the world's dumbest game of chicken. Chicken because the Arab states on the other side had no real intention of doing anything more than some really aggressive saber rattling, and dumb because Israel is so insanely paranoid they're literally incapable of recognizing who is and isn't a threat to their country half the time and apparently Egypt didn't bother to let them know "we're just screwing with you" through the very numerous channels they could have used to get the message across.

Was going to say the six day war was egypts fault lets be honest

While Egypt played it very dumb, the law as the US itself has laid down is pretty clear on conquering territory. Its a strange thing to support when it comes to Israel when it devalues international law that forms the backbone of US empire. Israel has treated the US as a doormat as well, so its curious that the US is willing to go so far with its support. Still, this doesn't bring any answer to what possible benefit this embassy move brings.

It could help with the midterms by gaining favor with the evangelical wing of the Republican bad and mitigate opposition from blacks and Hispanics since both demographic groups have a higher percentage of devout Christians than whites.

I am not so sure. While blacks and Hispanics have higher percentages of devout Christians, I have only seen white evangelicals really push for Israel. This might be solely for his base.

 whembly wrote:

Dude...ignoring Jerusalem as Israel's capital is like ignoring you need air. There's nothing controverisal about that...

Unless you're in the business of international law, then it gets really shady.

 whembly wrote:

Negotiated peace can only begin when Hamas/Hezbellah stop perpetuating violence.

Israel will never allow a non-violent Palestinian movement. Hamas actually tried to share power with the moderates and move away from violence. The result was Israel's 2014 murder spree (I will not dignify calling anything with over 50% civilian casualties a 'war', and that;s by the IDF's own admission. The UN and Red Cross numbers are even more grotesque)

 whembly wrote:

Gazans in general I have no sympathy... as their OWN bloody fundamentalist authority is to blame for makeing their lives miserable. NOT the IDF...which is defending it's border, not in Gaza, to protect its own civilians from this bs.

It's 'illegal under the terms of the Geneva Conventions' Boarder? That one? Or do you mean the illegal naval blockaid of Gaza that hasn't let up for years and continues to starve the city in violation of international treaty?

Israel has been heading down the road to Apartheid at a pretty good clip, so claiming its to protect it's citizens is a bit laughable. Also, what about the Palestinians rights to defend their boarders? After all, Israel has made regular military incursions into Gaza and yet if they fight back, they're horrible dirty terrorists for trying to prevent the murder of their civilians.

 whembly wrote:

That under any scenario, Israel is here to stay.

Whether anyone will be able to live there after the bomb will be the question.

In response to the butchery in Gaza, both Turkey and South Africa have withdrawn their ambassadors from Israel, with Turkey also withdrawing it's US ambassador. Kuwait tried to draft a resolution for an Independent Investigation of these killings, with the US already vetoing it. Condemnations of the slaughter have been pouring in, but unless someone invades Israel, that's not likely to do anything.