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tneva82 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:
Palestine "claims" that land... but, they never held it as a state. Israel kicked everyone's asses in '67, if nothing else its theirs by conquest. Palestine need to understand that they're being used as a proxy war here...

Ummm...so invading and winning war makes it all right and legal? So if Russia invades and conquers say California suddenly that's legal and not illegal?

Okay so guess Russia isn't doing anything illegal in the Ukraine then if the Ukraine goverment is defeated in war? Right of conquest and all that.

Okay... *you* gameplan this out for me... how does Ukraine get Crimea back?

Go...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da Boss wrote:
There is obviously nothing possible in between liberal application of lethal force and completely standing down.

You're avoiding the question.

What happens if that border isn't enforced?

Will the Palestinian be able to ignore that? Are they going to just saunter across the border to do some everyday business and have a cuppa tea?

The problem is that everybody wants to see what is basically a violent riot as some sort of armed invasion. People throwing rocks and molotov cocktails isn't an unfamiliar sight in Europe. Somehow the police manages to handle that quite well without opening up on the crowd.

Most of them are protestors. Israel has placed enough snipers to take out those few aligned with Hamas that are armed. Imagine if any Western army had done this during the occupation of Iraq or Afghanistan, just open up on every protest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:
Palestine "claims" that land... but, they never held it as a state. Israel kicked everyone's asses in '67, if nothing else its theirs by conquest. Palestine need to understand that they're being used as a proxy war here...

Ummm...so invading and winning war makes it all right and legal? So if Russia invades and conquers say California suddenly that's legal and not illegal?

Okay so guess Russia isn't doing anything illegal in the Ukraine then if the Ukraine goverment is defeated in war? Right of conquest and all that.

Okay... *you* gameplan this out for me... how does Ukraine get Crimea back?

Go...

Your gameplan, what does the US gain from recognizing an illegal annexation?

Go...

 whembly wrote:
[q

 Da Boss wrote:
There is obviously nothing possible in between liberal application of lethal force and completely standing down.

You're avoiding the question.

What happens if that border isn't enforced?

Will the Palestinian be able to ignore that? Are they going to just saunter across the border to do some everyday business and have a cuppa tea?

There isn't a border, just ask Israel. Palestine isn't a state. The border there is imaginary.

Also Palestinians cross the 'border' every day. As Israel relies on a great deal of labor for Palestine. The border fence is massive and ypu can just arrest those that climb over or get through. Israel never had a problem with detaining Palestinians before.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
The problem is that everybody wants to see what is basically a violent riot as some sort of armed invasion. People throwing rocks and molotov cocktails isn't an unfamiliar site in Europe. Somehow the police manages to handle that quite well without opening up on the crowd.

Most of them are protestors. Israel has placed enough snipers to take out those few aligned with Hamas that are armed. Imagine if any Western army had done this during the occupation of Iraq or Afghanistan, just open up on every protest.

Here's the thing... the Hamas admitted that they were using most of the protesters has human shields.

Furthermore, there were no less than 10 detonations of bombs at the fence and grenades as well.

This is more than just a rowdy bunch of people with sticks and stones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
The problem is that everybody wants to see what is basically a violent riot as some sort of armed invasion. People throwing rocks and molotov cocktails isn't an unfamiliar site in Europe. Somehow the police manages to handle that quite well without opening up on the crowd.

Most of them are protestors. Israel has placed enough snipers to take out those few aligned with Hamas that are armed. Imagine if any Western army had done this during the occupation of Iraq or Afghanistan, just open up on every protest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:
Palestine "claims" that land... but, they never held it as a state. Israel kicked everyone's asses in '67, if nothing else its theirs by conquest. Palestine need to understand that they're being used as a proxy war here...

Ummm...so invading and winning war makes it all right and legal? So if Russia invades and conquers say California suddenly that's legal and not illegal?

Okay so guess Russia isn't doing anything illegal in the Ukraine then if the Ukraine goverment is defeated in war? Right of conquest and all that.

Okay... *you* gameplan this out for me... how does Ukraine get Crimea back?

Go...

Your gameplan, what does the US gain from recognizing an illegal annexation?

Go...

I'll gladly responsd when you do so.

Reinforce the physical infrastructure. Use non-lethal riot control methods like riot police, rubber bullets or water cannon.

Or you know, don't go against the wishes of the Palestinian people and most of the rest of the world with regard to the embassy.

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
The problem is that everybody wants to see what is basically a violent riot as some sort of armed invasion. People throwing rocks and molotov cocktails isn't an unfamiliar site in Europe. Somehow the police manages to handle that quite well without opening up on the crowd.

Most of them are protestors. Israel has placed enough snipers to take out those few aligned with Hamas that are armed. Imagine if any Western army had done this during the occupation of Iraq or Afghanistan, just open up on every protest.

Here's the thing... the Hamas admitted that they were using most of the protesters has human shields.

Furthermore, there were no less than 10 detonations of bombs at the fence and grenades as well.

This is more than just a rowdy bunch of people with sticks and stones.

Of course Hamas says that, because Hamas wants the Israelis to open up. And the Israelis are only too happy to oblige. The problem is that if Hamas is so dangerous why has no Israeli died? So far its a one sided massacre.

And 10 explosions of what? What size bombs? The IDF has been clear that the fence has not been breached. So whatever they have been using is insignificant. We're talking about grenades versus armored vehicles and entrenched infantry.

This is more then just a bunch of rowdy people true, but the overwhelming amount are only rowdy people.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

I'll gladly responsd when you do so.

Sure, you sanction and never accept it. People coming from occupied territories, don't recognize their passports and such.

Not doing so only emboldens enemies like China and Russia to the detriment of the US world order. Make them pay for it, make it too costly for a prestige project. They might never give it back, but you can sure run their country into the ground so they won't get a chance for another victim.

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
The problem is that everybody wants to see what is basically a violent riot as some sort of armed invasion. People throwing rocks and molotov cocktails isn't an unfamiliar site in Europe. Somehow the police manages to handle that quite well without opening up on the crowd.

Most of them are protestors. Israel has placed enough snipers to take out those few aligned with Hamas that are armed. Imagine if any Western army had done this during the occupation of Iraq or Afghanistan, just open up on every protest.

Here's the thing... the Hamas admitted that they were using most of the protesters has human shields.

Of course they do.

The only thing Hamas has in any abundance whatsoever is angry people. More specifically poor angry people.

Hamas was relatively deep pockets thanks to their wealthy sponsors in KSA, UAE, etc. so when they tell the middle child in a family of 8 that they will take care of their family if only they go and stab a few Israelis they do it not just because of ideology, but also because is the closest they can do to provide for their family.

Who do you think pays for food, healthcare and housing in Gaza? It's Hamas.

The West Bank has something closer to a functioning economy, but Israeli encroaching makes it really, really hard and Fatah are caught between the Hamas rock and the Israel hard place.

And everyone goes along because an unstable, quasi-terrorist Palestinian leadership just reinforces the Israeli narrative that they won't yield to terror and that Palestinians can't be trusted with nice things like citizenship or a functioning economy, using paternalistic language much like apartheid South Africa or slave owners would use saying "see, without me they'd be even worse" because having cheap labor just across the fence is also the icing on the Israeli economy who does a great job with their high-tech companies but doesn't mind if the lowly jobs are done by poorly paid Palestinians.

Just about every Israeli will tell you how they're not racist because they know this Palestinian bricklayer or plumber who is so hard working or that Palestinian barista who does an awesome latte.

Ultimately, nobody is able to point to a particularly compelling *policy* reason for the Embassy move, and how it improves the US position, though it will play wonderfully with the domestic base. What we can say is that for all the talk about "security", the casualty counts are entirely one-sided, almost to the point of exclusivity, particularly the body counts. The embassy move was held off for years and decades for a reason, because everyone knew that doing exactly this thing was going to directly result in people's deaths. This wasn't rocket science, human lives were traded for domestic political reasons. We can see this in the people who were in attendance and invited at the opening, we can see this in the language used in the ceremonies.

Also, on that note, either Kushner went off script in a markedly tone-deaf manner, or the WH is intentionally scrubbing their transcripts.

https://twitter.com/AymanM/status/996077471710793733/photo/1

I think compelling policy reason is the Trump admin dirty word. Nothing they have done so far makes sense, and saving a Chinese company is just icing on the cake.

As for Kushner, I don't think he went off script. What he says sounds more like what the current admin believes then the transcript. Besides, now that it has become routine to lie to the press, would it really be surprising if they doctored some documents? Seems like a small step.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
A lot of the “food culture” issues also goes towards public policy issues because quite often “cultural” issues are driven by factors such as poverty and access to food resources.

As an example: Native American rates obesity and diabetes are not just driven by the fact that nomadic lifestyles have gone. Via packaged commodities we have provided them with a diet that drives health disparities through the roof.

The reality is that healthy food is expensive, often too expensive for many to afford with any regularity. $5 can buy someone a single healthy meal, or a 3000 calorie pizza for the same price.

Or people can go back to cooking their own food, not prepackaged crap.

Buying a roast, cutting it up and using it for several meals is not that expensive - I buy my roasts at between $2.50 and $4.00 per pound on sale.

Last week I bought a pork butt for $0.99 per pound - and I got about three meals for two people out of a four pound butt.

Rice, potatoes, and onions are still inexpensive, and can bulk out the meal - for maybe another $1.

Gods bless the crock pot.

The Auld Grump

Except diets rich in high-cholesterol and high-carb food is part of the problem. Where are the fresh greens, man? Still sitting in the supermarket because they're significantly more expensive on a per-meal basis...

Yeah pretty much. Cooking for oneself also involves the barrier of knowing how (not a big barrier, but still) and doesn't resolve the issue of healthy ingredients being way more expensive.

I always refer to what I call the "food trinity" which is healthy, good tasting, and inexpensive. You get two.

Or know what the heck you are doing, and get all three.

Again - it is not that expensive, it is a matter of buying, dividing, and freezing,

Look for books on meal prep - planning out what you are doing, a week at a time, handles the 'holy trinity'.

The Auld Grump - this week it is pork chops for $0.99, and chicken leg quarters for $0.89, corn on the cob 5/$1, and zucchini for $0.99. With 2/$4 cantalope for dessert.

I find your sentiment to be more or less untrue, but like you yourself said in a previous post to this one, the line of discussion has gotten off-topic.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around that - because it is not something that I do sometimes - it is the way I pretty much always do things - so being told it is impossible seems like somebody saying that rain doesn't make you damp - something that I know from empirical evidence is possible.

I will say that it became easier once I married - price drops with bulk.

But, really, I think that it comes down to habits - and my habits support that kind of diet. (I will admit to a weakness for casseroles - a habit that only began after I got married. Because Megan complained that I tend to eat curried everything. )

I will use half the pork chops this week, and use the other half next week - ditto on the chicken.

The Auld Grump

Again...I have no words.

Haley lauds Israel for its 'restraint' after at least 60 dead in Gaza

http://thehill.com/policy/international/387736-haley-lauds-israel-for-its-restraint-after-killings-in-gaza

Well, I guess in the Trump admin anything short of a nuclear strike counts as restraint.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Again...I have no words.

Haley lauds Israel for its 'restraint' after at least 60 dead in Gaza

http://thehill.com/policy/international/387736-haley-lauds-israel-for-its-restraint-after-killings-in-gaza

Um... it's a militarized border who's capable of wiping them out.

I'd say they've been very restrained.

 whembly wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Again...I have no words.

Haley lauds Israel for its 'restraint' after at least 60 dead in Gaza

http://thehill.com/policy/international/387736-haley-lauds-israel-for-its-restraint-after-killings-in-gaza

Um... it's a militarized boarder who's capable of wiping them out.

I'd say they've been very restrained.

So anything short of genocide counts as restraint?

Again, its not a border. According to Israel its just a fence around limbo. I can't believe you would just handwave away war crimes by saying "militarized border".

Yes, we shot a few unarmed civilians.

But we could've shot all the unarmed civilians.

Nice moral centre there.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Again...I have no words.

Haley lauds Israel for its 'restraint' after at least 60 dead in Gaza

http://thehill.com/policy/international/387736-haley-lauds-israel-for-its-restraint-after-killings-in-gaza

Um... it's a militarized boarder who's capable of wiping them out.

I'd say they've been very restrained.

So anything short of genocide counts as restraint?

Trying to win the Most Hyperbolic Award™ today...eh?

You need to *listen* to the Hamas:

MEMRI (@MEMRIReports)
5/15/18, 7:23 AM
Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar on Gaza Protests: This Is Not Peaceful Resistance, It Is Supported by Our Weapons pic.twitter.com/aut0Q7SPD9

I mean... this is what I'm seeing:

Media: This is a peaceful protest!
Israel: WTF?!?!
Hamas: WTF??!?!



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Again, its not a border. According to Israel its just a fence around limbo. I can't believe you would just handwave away war crimes by saying "militarized border".

Okay... a fence with armed soldiers... that is being attacked.

 whembly wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Again...I have no words.

Haley lauds Israel for its 'restraint' after at least 60 dead in Gaza

http://thehill.com/policy/international/387736-haley-lauds-israel-for-its-restraint-after-killings-in-gaza

Um... it's a militarized boarder who's capable of wiping them out.

I'd say they've been very restrained.

So anything short of genocide counts as restraint?

Trying to win the Most Hyperbolic Award™ today...eh?

Don't worry, you've got that one firmly in the bag. "Restrained" indeed.

Because all Palestinians are Hamas? This is as bad as the people arguing all Israelis are zionists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Again, its not a border. According to Israel its just a fence around limbo. I can't believe you would just handwave away war crimes by saying "militarized border".

Okay... a fence with armed soldiers... that is being attacked.

Shooting their own people (technically Palestine is not a country, just Israeli occupied territory) yeah that's quite problematic. I thought us in the West tended to frown upon governments shooting people in their own country. But here we are, back in Cold War era Central American political rethoric.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Because all Palestinians are Hamas? This is as bad as the people arguing all Israelis are zionists.

No. Didn't say that.

Again, why are you ignoring what the Hamas leadership said?

MEMRI (@MEMRIReports)
5/15/18, 7:23 AM
Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar on Gaza Protests: This Is Not Peaceful Resistance, It Is Supported by Our Weapons pic.twitter.com/aut0Q7SPD9

 whembly wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Again...I have no words.

Haley lauds Israel for its 'restraint' after at least 60 dead in Gaza

http://thehill.com/policy/international/387736-haley-lauds-israel-for-its-restraint-after-killings-in-gaza

Um... it's a militarized border who's capable of wiping them out.

I'd say they've been very restrained.

theres a lot of heavily militarized borders. Generally anytime 60 people die on one, especially when theyre all from one side, thats considered a massacre. If all we're doing is applauding that Israel could have killed more than that, then one must question the intent of such a low bar statement of support.

I am confident that no such statement of restraint would have been made had the incident involved literally any other nation.

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Because all Palestinians are Hamas? This is as bad as the people arguing all Israelis are zionists.

No. Didn't say that.

Again, why are you ignoring what the Hamas leadership said?

MEMRI (@MEMRIReports)
5/15/18, 7:23 AM
Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar on Gaza Protests: This Is Not Peaceful Resistance, It Is Supported by Our Weapons pic.twitter.com/aut0Q7SPD9

Again, why are you ignoring the majority aren't Hamas? Just because both sides are trying to hijack the narrative doesn't make it more true. Do violent elements in a massive protest justify indiscriminate force? Jeez, US protests must be pretty bloody...

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Because all Palestinians are Hamas? This is as bad as the people arguing all Israelis are zionists.

No. Didn't say that.

Again, why are you ignoring what the Hamas leadership said?

MEMRI (@MEMRIReports)
5/15/18, 7:23 AM
Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar on Gaza Protests: This Is Not Peaceful Resistance, It Is Supported by Our Weapons pic.twitter.com/aut0Q7SPD9

Again, why are you ignoring the majority aren't Hamas? Just because both sides are trying to hijack the narrative doesn't make it more true. Do violent elements in a massive protest justify indiscriminate force? Jeez, US protests must be pretty bloody...

I'm not.

It's just that what happened yesterday wasn't a "peaceful" protest.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Again...I have no words.

Haley lauds Israel for its 'restraint' after at least 60 dead in Gaza

http://thehill.com/policy/international/387736-haley-lauds-israel-for-its-restraint-after-killings-in-gaza

Um... it's a militarized border who's capable of wiping them out.

I'd say they've been very restrained.

theres a lot of heavily militarized borders. Generally anytime 60 people die on one, especially when theyre all from one side, thats considered a massacre. If all we're doing is applauding that Israel could have killed more than that, then one must question the intent of such a low bar statement of support.

I am confident that no such statement of restraint would have been made had the incident involved literally any other nation.

This. If East Germany had gunned down 60 people lobbing rocks and explosives at the Berlin wall you certainly wouldn't ever see it described as restraint.

I mean, consider that in one day, Israel has killed around 1/4 of the total number of people killed trying to cross the Berlin Wall in its entire lifetime.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Again...I have no words.

Haley lauds Israel for its 'restraint' after at least 60 dead in Gaza

http://thehill.com/policy/international/387736-haley-lauds-israel-for-its-restraint-after-killings-in-gaza

Um... it's a militarized border who's capable of wiping them out.

I'd say they've been very restrained.

theres a lot of heavily militarized borders. Generally anytime 60 people die on one, especially when theyre all from one side, thats considered a massacre. If all we're doing is applauding that Israel could have killed more than that, then one must question the intent of such a low bar statement of support.

I am confident that no such statement of restraint would have been made had the incident involved literally any other nation.

Don't you just love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning?

https://abcnews.go.com/International/nikki-haley-iranian-regime-notice-crackdown-protests/story?id=52170807

The Iranian government has responded with a firm hand, arresting hundreds. At least 21 people have been killed, according to the Associated Press, as state-run media have instead showcased a wave of pro-government protests and repeatedly played nationalistic songs.

The Iranian government has responded with a firm hand, arresting hundreds. At least 21 people have been killed, according to the Associated Press, as state-run media have instead showcased a wave of pro-government protests and repeatedly played nationalistic songs.

In particular, Haley said the U.S. calls on Iran’s government to stop censoring social media outlets and to restore Internet access –- and on the international community to “do more” than issue statements of support, saying, “We cannot allow” the ongoing crackdown on protesters “to happen.”.....

America’s antagonists on the Security Council had harsh words for why the session was even called, arguing the issue is not one of international security, but rather domestic politics.

“The situation is not an issue that belongs on the agenda of the Security Council,” the representative from Bolivia said, saying it will “run the risk of the Security Council becoming a political tool exploited for each member’s ends.”

To that criticism, Haley preemptively pushed back, arguing, “Freedom and human dignity cannot be separated from security.”

“Every UN member state is sovereign, but member states cannot use sovereignty as a shield when they categorically deny people human rights and fundamental freedoms,” she added.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Because all Palestinians are Hamas? This is as bad as the people arguing all Israelis are zionists.

No. Didn't say that.

Again, why are you ignoring what the Hamas leadership said?

MEMRI (@MEMRIReports)
5/15/18, 7:23 AM
Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar on Gaza Protests: This Is Not Peaceful Resistance, It Is Supported by Our Weapons pic.twitter.com/aut0Q7SPD9

Again, why are you ignoring the majority aren't Hamas? Just because both sides are trying to hijack the narrative doesn't make it more true. Do violent elements in a massive protest justify indiscriminate force? Jeez, US protests must be pretty bloody...

I'm not.

It's just that what happened yesterday wasn't a "peaceful" protest.

True, but it also wasn't an "open fire on the crowd" protest. What Israel did was in no way proportional to the situation. The issue is that the US should call that out. Israel isn't going to fall because the only killed 10 protestors instead of 60.

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Because all Palestinians are Hamas? This is as bad as the people arguing all Israelis are zionists.

No. Didn't say that.

Again, why are you ignoring what the Hamas leadership said?

MEMRI (@MEMRIReports)
5/15/18, 7:23 AM
Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar on Gaza Protests: This Is Not Peaceful Resistance, It Is Supported by Our Weapons pic.twitter.com/aut0Q7SPD9

Again, why are you ignoring the majority aren't Hamas? Just because both sides are trying to hijack the narrative doesn't make it more true. Do violent elements in a massive protest justify indiscriminate force? Jeez, US protests must be pretty bloody...

I'm not.

It's just that what happened yesterday wasn't a "peaceful" protest.

So? A drunken brawl or a hooligan gathering aren't peaceful either and police find the way not to shoot them (I assume with considerable restraint, but that's what you train them for).

jouso wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Because all Palestinians are Hamas? This is as bad as the people arguing all Israelis are zionists.

No. Didn't say that.

Again, why are you ignoring what the Hamas leadership said?

MEMRI (@MEMRIReports)
5/15/18, 7:23 AM
Senior Hamas Official Mahmoud Al-Zahhar on Gaza Protests: This Is Not Peaceful Resistance, It Is Supported by Our Weapons pic.twitter.com/aut0Q7SPD9

Again, why are you ignoring the majority aren't Hamas? Just because both sides are trying to hijack the narrative doesn't make it more true. Do violent elements in a massive protest justify indiscriminate force? Jeez, US protests must be pretty bloody...

I'm not.

It's just that what happened yesterday wasn't a "peaceful" protest.

So? A drunken brawl or a hooligan gathering aren't peaceful either and police find the way not to shoot them (I assume with considerable restraint, but that's what you train them for).

Clearly, it's ok because they were "only" Palestinians (basically what I'm seeing here). . .

I mean, feth, how many cops killed people during the Philiadelphia SB celebrations? (not how many died, how many were killed by authorities) Even during the Civil Rights Movement, police didn't kill 60 protestors in a single event. Even some of the most racist, ardent supporters of segregation began telling his cops/deputies to NOT send the dogs or fire hoses on protestors, because it put them in a bad light, and they'd lose national support.

No, it's ok because it supports the GOPs actions that way. Were it Obama in charge of all this Whembly would be outraged.

In fairness to Whembly, his stance on the Israel/Palestine issue has been pretty consistent, even if I vehemently disagree with much of his reasoning and conclusions.


On another topic...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/david-robinson-released-missouri-wrongful-conviction-sheila-box-murder-sikeston/

David Robinson was given life for a crime he didnt commit, has finally been released after 18 years in prison, 9 years after the real killer died and almost 14 years after the real killer confessed. The case against him was composed of a single paid informant and a cellmate who claimed Robinson had confessed (but...had never actually been Robinson's cellmate), and both recanted their stories.

The police detective involved, John Blakely, has...resigned, no worse for wear, and not absolutely no consequences for the prosecutor either.

https://www.semissourian.com/story/2511549.html

And gak like this is why I can never morally support the death penalty.

Yup. I'm all for the death penalty in theory, in a perfect world (or at least I can see the arguments, sometimes).

In this world, though; I am totally against it. We can't do it well, we can't do it fairly, and we shouldn't do it at all until we can. Which will maybe be never, and that's OK.