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**Vaktathi**

Aye, its hard to support the death penalty in such light.

But even aside from that...the fact that this case is what it is, that the police chose to frame an innocent man, that the prosecution chose to take such an obviously poor case and then continue fighting it for a decade and a half after it was obviously wrong, and that there is no mechanism for consequences for such travesties of justice and waste of taxpayer resources is...astounding.

**whembly**

As I got older... death penalty is no bueno for me as a policy.

**ScarletRose**

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-contributing-dollar500-million-to-trump-linked-project-in-indonesia/ar-AAxgPLS

So when a government official gets paid for using their office to favor certain businesses over others that's called....

**Tannhauser42**

Drain that swamp!
https://www.google.com/amp/dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/05/14/texas-congressman-lobbying/amp/
See, this is why politicians ultimately don't give a damn about us, because even if they use hush money to settle a sexual harassment lawsuit, don't pay the money back, and resign in disgrace when it becomes public, they can still get a job as a lobbyist for $160K a year.

**whembly**

ScarletRose wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-contributing-dollar500-million-to-trump-linked-project-in-indonesia/ar-AAxgPLS

So when a government official gets paid for using their office to favor certain businesses over others that's called....

Swampy.

**reds8n**

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44133308

N Korea cancels talks with South Korea and warns US

North Korea has cancelled high-level talks with South Korea because of anger over military exercises, state media reports.

The North's official KCNA news agency said the exercises between the US and the South were a "provocation".

It also warned the US over the fate of the historic summit between Kim Jong-un and US President Donald Trump that is scheduled for 12 June.

In March, Mr Trump stunned the world by accepting an invitation to meet Mr Kim.

"We will both try to make it a very special moment for World Peace!" the US leader tweeted at the time.

Some 100 warplanes, including an unspecified number of B-52 bombers and F-15K jets began the Max Thunder drills on Friday.

The US and South Korea insist such drills are purely for defence purposes, and based out of a mutual defence agreement they signed in 1953.

They also say the exercises are necessary to strengthen their readiness in case of an external attack.

fingers crossed this is just a bit of sabre rattling and the talks do go ahead.

**Disciple of Fate**

So the North Korean dance continues. Having bought enough time and peace, North Korea has just cancelled a high level meeting with South Korea and says its unsure if the one with the US can continue. No point in it anyway really, the US deal doesn't matter, its all empty promises.

**whembly**

reds8n wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44133308

N Korea cancels talks with South Korea and warns US

North Korea has cancelled high-level talks with South Korea because of anger over military exercises, state media reports.

The North's official KCNA news agency said the exercises between the US and the South were a "provocation".

It also warned the US over the fate of the historic summit between Kim Jong-un and US President Donald Trump that is scheduled for 12 June.

In March, Mr Trump stunned the world by accepting an invitation to meet Mr Kim.

"We will both try to make it a very special moment for World Peace!" the US leader tweeted at the time.

Some 100 warplanes, including an unspecified number of B-52 bombers and F-15K jets began the Max Thunder drills on Friday.

The US and South Korea insist such drills are purely for defence purposes, and based out of a mutual defence agreement they signed in 1953.

They also say the exercises are necessary to strengthen their readiness in case of an external attack.

fingers crossed this is just a bit of sabre rattling and the talks do go ahead.

Now there's the NK we all know...

Yeah, I think this is all a side show. (it may royally piss off China though...)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Disciple of Fate wrote:
So the North Korean dance continues. Having bought enough time and peace, North Korea has just cancelled a high level meeting with South Korea and says its unsure if the one with the US can continue. No point in it anyway really, the US deal doesn't matter, its all empty promises.

**Disciple of Fate**

whembly wrote:

Disciple of Fate wrote:
So the North Korean dance continues. Having bought enough time and peace, North Korea has just cancelled a high level meeting with South Korea and says its unsure if the one with the US can continue. No point in it anyway really, the US deal doesn't matter, its all empty promises.

I mean isn't it true? Setting aside the Iran deal for a second, the Trump admin has already backtracked multiple times on promises it made to Kim. Even if you could get a deal ratified by Congress there is no guarantee that the bill will even make it to a vote before Trump changes his mind and kills it. They don't know what they want from or can offer to North Korea, and they have less than a week to decide that when they have already wasted months. When Trump's strategy is to wing it, what faith is there put in a deal he might sleep on and declare bad the next day?

**Ustrello**

whembly wrote:
reds8n wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44133308

N Korea cancels talks with South Korea and warns US

North Korea has cancelled high-level talks with South Korea because of anger over military exercises, state media reports.

The North's official KCNA news agency said the exercises between the US and the South were a "provocation".

It also warned the US over the fate of the historic summit between Kim Jong-un and US President Donald Trump that is scheduled for 12 June.

In March, Mr Trump stunned the world by accepting an invitation to meet Mr Kim.

"We will both try to make it a very special moment for World Peace!" the US leader tweeted at the time.

Some 100 warplanes, including an unspecified number of B-52 bombers and F-15K jets began the Max Thunder drills on Friday.

The US and South Korea insist such drills are purely for defence purposes, and based out of a mutual defence agreement they signed in 1953.

They also say the exercises are necessary to strengthen their readiness in case of an external attack.

fingers crossed this is just a bit of sabre rattling and the talks do go ahead.

Now there's the NK we all know...

Yeah, I think this is all a side show. (it may royally piss off China though...)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Disciple of Fate wrote:
So the North Korean dance continues. Having bought enough time and peace, North Korea has just cancelled a high level meeting with South Korea and says its unsure if the one with the US can continue. No point in it anyway really, the US deal doesn't matter, its all empty promises.

Happened 3 times before, why shouldn't we expect it again for the 4th time

**Frazzled**

whembly wrote:
As I got older... death penalty is no bueno for me as a policy.

Same. Unless it's something jerk who double parked his pickup.

**Prestor Jon**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
In other news, do we have a reasonably solid estimate on what percentage of the population is the delusional base for the GOP? That is anyone who approves of the Trump administration is undoubtedly denying reality, so cannot be expected to vote on it. To my knowledge it's in the 30-40% range but I'm not sure on that. I ask this because I'm wondering how dramatic the response will be as it is revealed how corrupt the administration is. What portion of the country is willing to roll over and let it happen?

I ask because simple acceptance of blatant corruption is one thing that has me worried.

We've acquiesced to a horribly corrupt system as being normal for a long time now. Both parties have been doing this for years and SCOTUS even went so far as to label pay to play lobbying as normal and not corruptive without narrowly defined specific quid pro quo arrangements in the McCutcheon case. The more distressing aspect of the Trump presidency to me is that it's seems to have engaged a shift of the Overton window to allow the kind of personal brand monetization of the office of the Presidency that was previously never expected or condoned. IIRC d-usa made a good post about this a few pages ago, Trump and a lot of his cabinet treat the Federal govt like a private corporation in all the worst ways, cashing in on it like it's a brand letting money overrule accountability and productivity. The Republicans seem all too willing to accept Trump's used car salesman self promoting reality tv star shilling private sector experience as equivalent to the private sector experience of somebody like Mitt Romney. I wasn't a big Romney fan but I thought he had a solid resume and I think presidential candidates should have a mix of private sector and governance experience. Stuff like having his son in law give the speech in Jerusalem as if we didn't have a State Department full of foreign policy professionals whose sole purpose is to help the nation handle these kind of decisions in a crass showcase of nepotism and Trump brand building does not bode well for future presidencies. If this is the new normal I shudder to think of what comes next.

https://splinternews.com/politico-playbook-can-feth-right-off-1825951911

Politico’s Playbook, a newsletter that positions itself as a must-read morning briefing for DC insiders, does big business selling that brand: During creator Mike Allen’s tenure, a week-long sponsorship cost $60,000, and as recently as last week it was “presented by Goldman Sachs.” The newsletter was Allen’s baby, and he ran it until he left to start Axios in 2016. Mike Allen’s Playbook was aptly described by my colleague Alex Pareene as “a daily exercise in favor-trading carried out by people using him as a conduit and people using him as an unpaid spokesman.” As New York’s Jonathan Chait wrote, Allen would accept “lucrative payments from advertisers and lend his editorial voice to hyping, and sometimes parroting, their agenda.” It was a very expensive disgrace that pioneered a whole new kind of money-making, pseudo-journalism venture: the access newsletter.
Ads are more clearly marked in Playbook these days, and Allen is now sharing his worldly wisdom at Axios instead, but it’s important to remember this shameful history as we dive into Playbook’s Tellin’ It Like It Is special today:
Good Friday morning. AND, WELCOME TO THE REALITY OF WASHINGTON. ... In the last two days, we’ve seen the world get introduced to two elements of D.C. that many of us know well: political intelligence and big-dollar fundraising. Here are a few things that happen in D.C. that might — but shouldn’t — catch some people by surprise:

— YES, Paul Ryan flew across the country to meet with Sheldon Adelson, and when the super PAC asked for $30 million, he had to leave the room. Yep, it’s weird. That’s how campaign finance works. They can do everything but ask for the big dough. Happens routinely in both parties.
“Weird” is not the word I would go for. “Insanely corrupt” works better for me, personally. It doesn’t make you clever or savvy to already be well aware of this terrible thing, nor to diminish its importance by describing it as routine. Just because your shirt has been on fire for a while now does not mean the flames are no longer worthy of mention. If people are truly surprised by this information and not just outraged, that means journalists, including Playbook’s reporters, are failing at their job of informing Americans exactly how corrupt their political system is.
Today’s edition continues:

— YES, guys like Michael Cohen routinely get paid amounts like $1.2 million to offer insights about their boss or former boss. Yeah, it’s crazy. But many readers of this newsletter would not have their McMansion in McLean, their BMW, their membership at Army Navy, second homes in Delaware, cigar lockers and endless glasses of Pinot Noir at BLT Steak and Tosca if that kind of stuff didn’t happen. Newsflash: $1.2 million is not even a rounding error for massive corporations. (The smart companies route these deals through law firms.)
A scintilla of information gives a company an edge. That price tag would be completely worth it for a member of Hill leadership — and intel on Trump is worth much more than that. It seems like Cohen offered squat. See WaPo story on Cohen advising AT&T on Time Warner merger
I do respect the roast of the Playbook reader here, but Playbook cultivated this readership. It exists to serve the BMW-driving class of Washington insiders, and it serves them just as much as the readers serve Playbook by giving them the subscriptions that entice literally Goldman Sachs to sponsor their newsletter. Playbook gives corporations like AT&T and Novartis and their representatives, including the “smart” ones, the intel they need to Win The Day. They make life easier for people whose entire job it is to make America worse on behalf of their corporate paymasters. You don’t get to spend years carefully growing a large readership of bastards and then turn around and say wow, aren’t you guys all bastards?

But most telling is Playbook’s acceptance of the “offering insights” spin that AT&T and Novartis have offered in the wake of the latest Cohen news. It’s true that corporations routinely pay lobbying and consulting firms for “insight” into what politicians are thinking, but for all their posturing as savvy insiders, Playbook is playing at deep naiveté if they think payments like this, routine as they are, are merely for intel-gathering and not straight-up buying influence and access.

— YES, people work for years on the Hill for $60,000 to make three times as much money on K Street to work much shorter days. And, guess what, random 24-year old Hill aide: they don’t like you for your personality. You’re boring and green. They want to know what your boss is talking about, what he’s worked up about and what he’s thinking about on random bill X.

First of all, people often make a lot less than $60,000 for a long time on the Hill. Your first job on the Hill can easily pay $30,000 or less. But again, Playbook betrays its comfortable position nestled among the swamp things here by saying this is Just How Things Work, rather than a continuing threat to democracy.

— YES, people pay for access. It’s called a fundraiser. Why do you think many restaurants in D.C. have five private rooms? Why do you think some companies buy massive townhouses on Capitol Hill? Why do you think members of Congress hold PAC retreats at swanky resorts, and lobbyists go in droves? It ain’t for the camaraderie.

I... know? I don’t imagine many people think fundraisers are about anything other than access, except the liars whose quotes Playbook prints and who they give cover to on a daily basis? Playbook consistently mistakes the public outrage and disgust at the Cohen payments for surprise. The average American already hated Washington for exactly these reasons. The only people who pretend fundraisers are about anything other than access are people who read Playbook religiously—or sponsor it.

— YES, all of the people who say they are against the system participate in it. Yes, the people who rage against the machine are greasing the skids. Watch cable TV, look for a lawmaker who says the system is broken and then take a gander at their campaign finance report. Bet you they have tons of PAC contributions, and tons of lobbyists giving them dough.

All of the people who say they’re against it participate in it? Fact check: Not me, mate! Maybe they’re just talking about the lawmakers they see on cable TV—which is a huge problem in itself. Those aren’t the only people who matter, nor are they the only people who should matter, and a journalistic enterprise predicated on tracking only who’s winning and losing and what soundbite politicians are using today what is doomed to fail readers. It is accurate to say that basically every politician is tainted by big money, but does that give you the right to smugly sit back in your chair and say ugh, you CRETINS, of COURSE that’s how the system works, while—and I can’t stress this enough—accepting a sponsorship from Goldman Sachs?

— AND NO, the swamp is not drained. Give us a break. We’re not defending the status quo — but welcome to reality. This is the campaign finance/lobbying/government system Congress created and D.C. fostered.

Welcome to reality, of which we are the arbiters. Everyone except us, Playbook, created this system in DC; we’re just the ones brave enough to tell you about it—sponsored by Morgan Stanley, which, by the way, of course had nothing to do with the creation of this system.

The conversation around the payments to Cohen is a fine needle to thread: It’s important to acknowledge that this sort of thing does happen all the time without excusing it in any sense. It would seem to be unpalatably radical to admit corruption is baked into every step of Washington decision-making, that the people who sponsor your newsletter are currently using their vast wealth to make America worse, that probably the only way forward is to tear the whole thing down and start again. How can you exist as Politico Playbook if you fully acknowledge the real extent of lobbying and influence in Washington? How can you serve the worst insiders in DC while telling them that they’re snakes? You can’t, so don’t pretend you can have it both ways.

**BaronIveagh**

whembly wrote:

Um... it's a militarized border who's capable of wiping them out.

ROFL

Let me ask you a serious question: WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? Because it's clearly some premium gak. Even if you armed the entire population of Gaza to the equivalent of the US army, they're only outnumbered eight to one. That's beating armed soldiers to death with stones and winning numbers.

Interestingly, Haaretz is running an article that mentions, interestingly, that Hamas reached out to Israel to get a cease fire going, and, SURPRISE Israel told them to go to hell.

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-a-predictable-disaster-in-gaza-israel-did-nothing-to-prevent-clashes-1.6091797

**whembly**

BaronIveagh wrote:
whembly wrote:

Um... it's a militarized border who's capable of wiping them out.

ROFL

Let me ask you a serious question: WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING? Because it's clearly some premium gak. Even if you armed the entire population of Gaza to the equivalent of the US army, they're only outnumbered eight to one. That's beating armed soldiers to death with stones and winning numbers.

Interestingly, Haaretz is running an article that mentions, interestingly, that Hamas reached out to Israel to get a cease fire going, and, SURPRISE Israel told them to go to hell.

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-a-predictable-disaster-in-gaza-israel-did-nothing-to-prevent-clashes-1.6091797

So... Israel made those "protesters" attack the soldiers...

I mean, I've heard rumors that the Jews can control the weather... but people's minds?????

**Vulcan**

Edit: never mind...

**d-usa**

NK has caught the White House “off guard”.

Because nobody expected NK to do the same thing they have done forever.

**Howard A Treesong**

Seems likely it’s all been another game for North Korea. Doubt they went into these talks with any good faith in seeing them through. I take it they won’t be dismantling squat now. It’s good propaganda to show a hand of friendship to enemies and then double down on victimhood so you can look like the reasonable ones being oppressed.

**NinthMusketeer**

@Prestor Jon, I am aware of what was already there but I also think that saying the current corruption is even close to the same level is a false equivalency.

**Disciple of Fate**

d-usa wrote:
NK has caught the White House “off guard”.

Because nobody expected NK to do the same thing they have done forever.

Can you really be caught of guard if you don't live in this reality though

**Prestor Jon**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
@Prestor Jon, I am aware of what was already there but I also think that saying the current corruption is even close to the same level is a false equivalency.

I agree that the corruption in the White House and cabinet is worse but in Congress its just same gak different day.

**thekingofkings**

Prestor Jon wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
@Prestor Jon, I am aware of what was already there but I also think that saying the current corruption is even close to the same level is a false equivalency.

I agree that the corruption in the White House and cabinet is worse but in Congress its just same gak different day.

Is it really worse, or just more obvious?

**Steelmage99**

thekingofkings wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
@Prestor Jon, I am aware of what was already there but I also think that saying the current corruption is even close to the same level is a false equivalency.

I agree that the corruption in the White House and cabinet is worse but in Congress its just same gak different day.

Is it really worse, or just more obvious?

Both?

**Prestor Jon**

thekingofkings wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
@Prestor Jon, I am aware of what was already there but I also think that saying the current corruption is even close to the same level is a false equivalency.

I agree that the corruption in the White House and cabinet is worse but in Congress its just same gak different day.

Is it really worse, or just more obvious?

Even if it’s the same the brazen crassness of it makes it worse. This kind of behavior from the executive branch shouldn’t be acceptable to anyone.

**thekingofkings**

Prestor Jon wrote:
thekingofkings wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
@Prestor Jon, I am aware of what was already there but I also think that saying the current corruption is even close to the same level is a false equivalency.

I agree that the corruption in the White House and cabinet is worse but in Congress its just same gak different day.

Is it really worse, or just more obvious?

Even if it’s the same the brazen crassness of it makes it worse. This kind of behavior from the executive branch shouldn’t be acceptable to anyone.

We have had worse..Johnson, Jackson, Harding, Buchanan...these guys are close..but without social media and the 24 hours news cycle, how much about it would we really know?

**BaronIveagh**

whembly wrote:

So... Israel made those "protesters" attack the soldiers...

So, thousands of at best lightly armed people attacked a dug in position occupied by armed soldiers, dozens killed thousands wounded, not one Israeli casualty reported of any type.

I know a good bs story when I hear one.

**NinthMusketeer**

Steelmage99 wrote:
thekingofkings wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
@Prestor Jon, I am aware of what was already there but I also think that saying the current corruption is even close to the same level is a false equivalency.

I agree that the corruption in the White House and cabinet is worse but in Congress its just same gak different day.

Is it really worse, or just more obvious?

Both?

Agreed on both counts.

**LordofHats**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Seems likely it’s all been another game for North Korea. Doubt they went into these talks with any good faith in seeing them through. I take it they won’t be dismantling squat now. It’s good propaganda to show a hand of friendship to enemies and then double down on victimhood so you can look like the reasonable ones being oppressed.

Alternately they saw a chance to play Trump and did.

Talk about a getting a deal going. Wait for Trump to inevitably double down on something. Iran deal. Military exercises. Take your pick.

Then call the whole thing off and let Trump take the blame.

Of course the negotiations could still go forward and all this is just posturing.

**Prestor Jon**

thekingofkings wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
thekingofkings wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
@Prestor Jon, I am aware of what was already there but I also think that saying the current corruption is even close to the same level is a false equivalency.

I agree that the corruption in the White House and cabinet is worse but in Congress its just same gak different day.

Is it really worse, or just more obvious?

Even if it’s the same the brazen crassness of it makes it worse. This kind of behavior from the executive branch shouldn’t be acceptable to anyone.

We have had worse..Johnson, Jackson, Harding, Buchanan...these guys are close..but without social media and the 24 hours news cycle, how much about it would we really know?

Knowing about it is what makes it worse. Yes corruption is still bad even when it’s hidden behind closed doors and stays out of media reports but brazenly monetizing the office of the presidency is worse. It’s worse mainly for two reasons: 1 by committing these acts in full view of the American public and the world without facing universal condemnation from both parties and Congress normalizes this kind of behavior and allows it to perpetrated by future administrations 2 the lack of decorum, integrity and professionalism demeans the office of the presidency now and lowers the standard of acceptable behavior for future administrations. I disagreed with a lot of policies advocated by Obama and Bush43 but I believe they were both good people and conducted themselves in a presidential manner during their terms. If we allow and condone boorish behavior and blatant corruption then we are telling future presidents and candidates that they can get away with this gak too.

**whembly**

BaronIveagh wrote:
whembly wrote:

So... Israel made those "protesters" attack the soldiers...

So, thousands of at best lightly armed people attacked a dug in position occupied by armed soldiers, dozens killed thousands wounded, not one Israeli casualty reported of any type.

I know a good bs story when I hear one.

So... is it the disproportionate response that troubles you?

**BaronIveagh**

thekingofkings wrote:

We have had worse..Johnson, Jackson, Harding, Buchanan...these guys are close..but without social media and the 24 hours news cycle, how much about it would we really know?

Grant is actually the best comparison, but even he took six months to reach the level of scandal Trump pulled off in his first hundred days.