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I'd like to see CPs restricted by base of the type of army that generates them, and the balance to be designed around how easy it is to fill out detachments, so Custodes would have insanely powerful stratagiums but few CPs. Ig meanwhile would have kinda crappy stratigiums, but a lot of them

the end result is a 1 CP stratigium for IG that might give ONE unit X, would be a 1 CP stratigium that gives all custodes X.

Imperial Guard stratagems are severely limited by the units that benefit from them. For the most part you're boosting a 60-point squad of 10 Guardsmen: even if they're getting all sorts of nifty bonuses they're still not going to do much. If you can boost a more impressive unit, like giving Bullgryn +1 save or a Baneblade WS 2+, you're going to get greater dividends. The Guard also lack a high cost, high impact stratagem, like the ones that let you deepstrike units or fight twice.

The other army I play is Space Marines, and while they don't have the best stratagems they do have a decent spread, and they can boost higher cost units than the Guard can. Even a simple reroll stratagem will have more relative impact in a Marine army, where you have fewer attacks so each one in precious.

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd like to see CPs restricted by base of the type of army that generates them, and the balance to be designed around how easy it is to fill out detachments, so Custodes would have insanely powerful stratagiums but few CPs. Ig meanwhile would have kinda crappy stratigiums, but a lot of them

the end result is a 1 CP stratigium for IG that might give ONE unit X, would be a 1 CP stratigium that gives all custodes X.

That's basically how it is now. IG for example doesn't have all that super powerful expensive ones so I end up often with CP's to spend.

Of course what it DOES is that IG is often used as CP generator for others...

Holy s, the IG bias is real in this place.

Sedraxis wrote:
Holy s, the IG bias is real in this place.

Of course that has nothing to do with IG and IG supported factions being the dominant armies this edition.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Sedraxis wrote:
Holy s, the IG bias is real in this place.

Of course that has nothing to do with IG and IG supported factions being the dominant armies this edition.

* grabs popcorn and waits for the IG naysayers to enter and proclaim that IG is actually bottom tier.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Sedraxis wrote:
Holy s, the IG bias is real in this place.

Of course that has nothing to do with IG and IG supported factions being the dominant armies this edition.

Rather IG as part of imperial soup being good. Pure IG hasn't actually been dominating tournaments for a long time. What IG does is for fraction of army size(like few hundred points in 2k) provides cheap screen and CP.

Pure IG? Not top by a long shot. Solid army but not meta drivers any more. They were king when codex was released but with GW pumping out new codexes they have been relegated to useful support role in competive armies. What was last big tournament won by pure IG? Or majority of points spent on IG? Generally it's token IG infantry squads+mortars+CP's and then the real meat.

 meleti wrote:
Nice poll, OP.

It is my first one. Any criticism or suggestions?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Big FAQ introduced rules involving allied detachments and CPs or how many detachments you take of allies in proportion to your main army.

Like you declare your primary army then any detachment of allies reduces the CP it would usually give. So if you want to take IG as your primary army a Supreme Command of Custodes bikers captains would cost a CP rather than grant one. OR just instate a rule that you can take one allied detachment per 2 detachments of the declared primary army.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I didn't vote because my answer isn't up there.

What answer is missing?

 Sim-Life wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Big FAQ introduced rules involving allied detachments and CPs or how many detachments you take of allies in proportion to your main army.

Like you declare your primary army then any detachment of allies reduces the CP it would usually give. So if you want to take IG as your primary army a Supreme Command of Custodes bikers captains would cost a CP rather than grant one. OR just instate a rule that you can take one allied detachment per 2 detachments of the declared primary army.

Howabout detachment specific CP only being usable by that faction?

No more IG battallions providing CP for BA/Custodes. Or if you want to use them you need to use wider keyword for your guys(Imperium) thus no regiment trait etc for your IG and custodes etc.

Command Points should be faction specific. If you are playing AM and SM and the AM gives you 7 Command Points and SM 1, then you can only use those 7 CP on the AM Stratagems, and not any SM stratagems.

Stop whining about CPs, they're perfectly fine and only broken when you add IG incredible number and regeneration from Warlord Trait + Relic

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Stop whining about CPs, they're perfectly fine and only broken when you add IG incredible number and regeneration from Warlord Trait + Relic

Ah so they are fine except for this and that but despite that don't do anything.

Yeah sorry no everything is not rainbows and candies and while you might be happy to pretend it is other's aren't.

tneva82 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Stop whining about CPs, they're perfectly fine and only broken when you add IG incredible number and regeneration from Warlord Trait + Relic

Ah so they are fine except for this and that but despite that don't do anything.

Yeah sorry no everything is not rainbows and candies and while you might be happy to pretend it is other's aren't.

Nah, just many people like you need a heavy dose of L2P

 Xenomancers wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
meh, guard has no where near the powerful stratagems that are in some other books. I'd Rank them solidly behind (in no particular order) CSM, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Eldar, Nids, 1000 Sons, Deathguard, Daemons. They are space marine levels of stratagem, but have a ton of CP. They are no where near the top in good stratagems. As Unit said, the problem is that they act as a battery (3 CP + regen) for basically every competitive imperium army.

Armywide +1 to hit - is fantastic. +1 armor to a unit is great too. In fact - all the army specific stratagems for AM are good enough to bring a specific detachment just to be able to use them.

They are solid strats not game making great. +1 to hit for 2 CP, after an unsaved wound, against a single unit. It is good but not Uber unit shoots twice good, or my pox walkers add models for free good. +1 armor on generally 5+ save models. Again is solid, but not amazing. Sorry AM lack the strats that other books have that can break a game wide open and come close to ensuring your win.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Stop whining about CPs, they're perfectly fine and only broken when you add IG incredible number and regeneration from Warlord Trait + Relic

Ah so they are fine except for this and that but despite that don't do anything.

Yeah sorry no everything is not rainbows and candies and while you might be happy to pretend it is other's aren't.

Nah, just many people like you need a heavy dose of L2P

Ok so howabout you L2P against IG and their CP's.

After all you said CP's are perfectly whine. No need to do anything about it.

Or you could realize that a) no game is perfect thus "perfectly fine" is automatically incorrect anyway b) GW games are even worse than usual since they don't even WANT balance to hurt their profit lines.

tneva82 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Stop whining about CPs, they're perfectly fine and only broken when you add IG incredible number and regeneration from Warlord Trait + Relic

Ah so they are fine except for this and that but despite that don't do anything.

Yeah sorry no everything is not rainbows and candies and while you might be happy to pretend it is other's aren't.

Nah, just many people like you need a heavy dose of L2P

Ok so howabout you L2P against IG and their CP's.

After all you said CP's are perfectly whine. No need to do anything about it.

Or you could realize that a) no game is perfect thus "perfectly fine" is automatically incorrect anyway b) GW games are even worse than usual since they don't even WANT balance to hurt their profit lines.

It is a IG problem then, not a generalized CP one

Ah right I forgot. You are obviously the one who has authority to decide what's valid problem so if YOU think it's problem it's fine and if YOU don't think it's problem it's whining.

Sorry. Forgot you are authority on what's problem and what's whining.

The poll is very skewed due to the options available.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Stop whining about CPs, they're perfectly fine and only broken when you add IG incredible number and regeneration from Warlord Trait + Relic

Ah so they are fine except for this and that but despite that don't do anything.

Yeah sorry no everything is not rainbows and candies and while you might be happy to pretend it is other's aren't.

Nah, just many people like you need a heavy dose of L2P

Ok so howabout you L2P against IG and their CP's.

After all you said CP's are perfectly whine. No need to do anything about it.

Or you could realize that a) no game is perfect thus "perfectly fine" is automatically incorrect anyway b) GW games are even worse than usual since they don't even WANT balance to hurt their profit lines.

It is a IG problem then, not a generalized CP one

It not just an IG problem either. Basically any army with a cheap HQ and Troops option can do it and it give a very easy advantage to them over elite armies, which they already have advantages over.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
meh, guard has no where near the powerful stratagems that are in some other books. I'd Rank them solidly behind (in no particular order) CSM, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Eldar, Nids, 1000 Sons, Deathguard, Daemons. They are space marine levels of stratagem, but have a ton of CP. They are no where near the top in good stratagems. As Unit said, the problem is that they act as a battery (3 CP + regen) for basically every competitive imperium army.

Armywide +1 to hit - is fantastic. +1 armor to a unit is great too. In fact - all the army specific stratagems for AM are good enough to bring a specific detachment just to be able to use them.

Overlapping Fields of Fire requires the Detachment to be Cadian, has to inflict an unsaved wound on an enemy unit in the shooting phase, and requires everyone to be Cadian and target the same enemy unit this phase.

It's basically the Markerlight Stratagem.

Every army needs Stratagems to be "effective". IG Stratagems aren't worse then any other codex. I see no reason for them to get more then others.

Give everyone X cp per Y points. Maybe reward troop choices by awarding +CP per pointd spent on troops.

Once again it looks like GK win the race to the bottom. Low CP, no way to gain/recover CP, and crappy stratagems.

GO GK.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Once again it looks like GK win the race to the bottom. Low CP, no way to gain/recover CP, and crappy stratagems.

GO GK.

Things like Psybolts and the Psilencer one would be perfectly fine, except GW decided to make them 2CP because.

 nordsturmking wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I didn't vote because my answer isn't up there.

What answer is missing?

An option like - command points are a cool idea that isn't being handled well at the moment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Command Points should be faction specific. If you are playing AM and SM and the AM gives you 7 Command Points and SM 1, then you can only use those 7 CP on the AM Stratagems, and not any SM stratagems.

Yep


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
meh, guard has no where near the powerful stratagems that are in some other books. I'd Rank them solidly behind (in no particular order) CSM, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Eldar, Nids, 1000 Sons, Deathguard, Daemons. They are space marine levels of stratagem, but have a ton of CP. They are no where near the top in good stratagems. As Unit said, the problem is that they act as a battery (3 CP + regen) for basically every competitive imperium army.

Armywide +1 to hit - is fantastic. +1 armor to a unit is great too. In fact - all the army specific stratagems for AM are good enough to bring a specific detachment just to be able to use them.

Overlapping Fields of Fire requires the Detachment to be Cadian, has to inflict an unsaved wound on an enemy unit in the shooting phase, and requires everyone to be Cadian and target the same enemy unit this phase.

It's basically the Markerlight Stratagem.

I didn't say it was game breaking - it's just very good. Space marines don't have a single stratagem at this level. GK nether.

Sedraxis wrote:
Every army needs Stratagems to be "effective". IG Stratagems aren't worse then any other codex. I see no reason for them to get more then others.

Give everyone X cp per Y points. Maybe reward troop choices by awarding +CP per pointd spent on troops.

Back in my day, GW believed that their players were smart enough to figure out percentages!

If your army is over X% Heavy Support OR Fast attack OR Elite - get a small bonus

If your army is over Y% Troops - get a bigger bonus

 Xenomancers wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
meh, guard has no where near the powerful stratagems that are in some other books. I'd Rank them solidly behind (in no particular order) CSM, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Eldar, Nids, 1000 Sons, Deathguard, Daemons. They are space marine levels of stratagem, but have a ton of CP. They are no where near the top in good stratagems. As Unit said, the problem is that they act as a battery (3 CP + regen) for basically every competitive imperium army.

Armywide +1 to hit - is fantastic. +1 armor to a unit is great too. In fact - all the army specific stratagems for AM are good enough to bring a specific detachment just to be able to use them.

Overlapping Fields of Fire requires the Detachment to be Cadian, has to inflict an unsaved wound on an enemy unit in the shooting phase, and requires everyone to be Cadian and target the same enemy unit this phase.

It's basically the Markerlight Stratagem.

I didn't say it was game breaking - it's just very good. Space marines don't have a single stratagem at this level. GK nether.

Sure they do, Strike from the shadows is absolutely on that level or better, the fight twice strat is on that level (though marines don't have great units to use it with, but the strat itself is on the same level.) The ultra marines strat to re-roll 1s is on that level it is just redundant based on the fact that re-rolls come from tons of other sources in the book, Born in the Saddle from white scars is on that level. Marines have some decent stratagems that I put on par with +1 to hit for 2 CP against a wounded unit. The problem marines have is that their best strats either specify a particular unit and so are limited, or a specific chapter. But sure IG are a little better than vanilla space marines. But that strat is no where near on the level of those in the top books.

Personally I think to balance CP they need to make all strats cost 1 point, and cap strats at 8 points and make it so you can only ever have one relic/trait that allows you to recover CP on your stratagem use or your opanants. Right now for guard for example it's extremely easy for them to no only bank a bunch of CP but also generate more.

For example, guwrd have a trait(or relic can't remember) that let's them role a dice for each CP spent where T sons only get to use it per stratagem that your opponent uses. So strats are not equal nor our the relics/traits that deal with CP equal.

Its more guard can get the recover on a 5+ warlord trait and steal on a 5+ relic, combining them gets you 1in 3 of your comand points back and 1 in 3 of your enemies comand points.
And you get a 1 in 3 chance to regain these new CP's aswell.

Most armies can play CP shenanigans at the some level, just not aswell.
Ultramarine warlord trait is 5+ no steeling
Choas get a steel on a 5+ no regeneration.
Tau can do both on a 6+ from a relic.
Its the combo of 1in3 plus 1in3 thats broken, 1in3 and 0 or 1in 6 are vaguely balanced