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Grey Knights are almost certainly the worst codex army at this point. The almost suffered from reverse future proofing, where many of the GK special rules that were meant to prevent abuse become additionally burdensome in the context of current match play rules.
Horrible internal balance, poor stratagems, and almost army wide overpricing all hurt as well.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: Honestly I read it the same way as he said. Shunting is unaffected by this. What is affected are units that were deployed as reinforcements and then coming in at a later turn. It even specifies units that are deployed as reserves in the rule if I remember correctly.
Let's look at it closely.
TACTICAL RESERVES
Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in Reserve, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements.
One could argue Tactical Reserves doesn't apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield.
When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined Power Ratings of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total Power Level, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.
Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cults unit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems).
Okay. The first paragraph there just means you have to set up 50% of your army based on Power Level. It's not based on the number of units anymore. Fine with this.
The second paragraph, it's saying this other important part of the rule applies to [u]any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player's first turn.[/u] It's important to note the distinction: the unit must be arriving on the battlefield from somewhere else that allows it to be set up mid-game as reinforcements. It's not necessarily talking about units that have already been set up on the battlefield.
One could argue this part does not apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield. Gate of Infinity happens after the unit has already arrived on the battlefield, despite the language about removing it and setting it up. It is arriving on the battlefield again, but not from some other place where it was set up.
Not saying this is the only interpretation, but that it could be argued that way.
Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.
This final piece makes me think this interpretation is the correct one. If a unit becomes REINFORCEMENTS when it is removed from the battlefield using Gate of Infinity, that unit would automatically be destroyed after turn 3. I don't think that's RAI, why would GOI stop working after turn 3?
I get it that GW is trying to blunt the impact of alpha strikes. I don't think GoI really runs counter to that, you can only use it once per turn in matched play and it affects a single unit.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: Honestly I read it the same way as he said. Shunting is unaffected by this. What is affected are units that were deployed as reinforcements and then coming in at a later turn. It even specifies units that are deployed as reserves in the rule if I remember correctly.
Let's look at it closely.
TACTICAL RESERVES
Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in Reserve, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements.
One could argue Tactical Reserves doesn't apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield.
When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined Power Ratings of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total Power Level, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.
Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cults unit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems).
Okay. The first paragraph there just means you have to set up 50% of your army based on Power Level. It's not based on the number of units anymore. Fine with this.
The second paragraph, it's saying this other important part of the rule applies to [u]any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player's first turn.[/u] It's important to note the distinction: the unit must be arriving on the battlefield from somewhere else that allows it to be set up mid-game as reinforcements. It's not necessarily talking about units that have already been set up on the battlefield.
One could argue this part does not apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield. Gate of Infinity happens after the unit has already arrived on the battlefield, despite the language about removing it and setting it up. It is arriving on the battlefield again, but not from some other place where it was set up.
Not saying this is the only interpretation, but that it could be argued that way.
Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.
This final piece makes me think this interpretation is the correct one. If a unit becomes REINFORCEMENTS when it is removed from the battlefield using Gate of Infinity, that unit would automatically be destroyed after turn 3. I don't think that's RAI, why would GOI stop working after turn 3?
I get it that GW is trying to blunt the impact of alpha strikes. I don't think GoI really runs counter to that, you can only use it once per turn in matched play and it affects a single unit.
I see the other side of the argument you're giving in the middle there but from a spirit of the game perspective it doesn't make sense. I realize you agreed with me (I think?) but it just irks me that people try to nitpick rules like this when they obviously go against the spirit of what is intended. When I read the GOI rule or shunt it's meant to be an example within the rule for how they are moving/interacting in the game when it references "Like deep strike". They aren't literally redeploying as reserves. Otherwise you're correct, they would be destroyed by using GOI if they used it on turn 4... which is simply a ludicrous thing to do. Therefore I think GK might actually be OK with this new deep strike rule, as I said before.
I don't play Grey Knights by the way. I just thought I'd poke into the thread and give an opinion for what I would view as the intention and maybe soothe some of the butt hurt I've seen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/16 22:25:01
ArmchairArbiter wrote: Honestly I read it the same way as he said. Shunting is unaffected by this. What is affected are units that were deployed as reinforcements and then coming in at a later turn. It even specifies units that are deployed as reserves in the rule if I remember correctly.
Let's look at it closely.
TACTICAL RESERVES
Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in Reserve, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements.
One could argue Tactical Reserves doesn't apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield.
When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined Power Ratings of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total Power Level, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.
Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cults unit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems).
Okay. The first paragraph there just means you have to set up 50% of your army based on Power Level. It's not based on the number of units anymore. Fine with this.
The second paragraph, it's saying this other important part of the rule applies to [u]any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player's first turn.[/u] It's important to note the distinction: the unit must be arriving on the battlefield from somewhere else that allows it to be set up mid-game as reinforcements. It's not necessarily talking about units that have already been set up on the battlefield.
One could argue this part does not apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield. Gate of Infinity happens after the unit has already arrived on the battlefield, despite the language about removing it and setting it up. It is arriving on the battlefield again, but not from some other place where it was set up.
Not saying this is the only interpretation, but that it could be argued that way.
Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.
This final piece makes me think this interpretation is the correct one. If a unit becomes REINFORCEMENTS when it is removed from the battlefield using Gate of Infinity, that unit would automatically be destroyed after turn 3. I don't think that's RAI, why would GOI stop working after turn 3?
I get it that GW is trying to blunt the impact of alpha strikes. I don't think GoI really runs counter to that, you can only use it once per turn in matched play and it affects a single unit.
You're all looking at the wrong one. Tactical Reserves aren't part of this. Reinforcements is the rule you want.
Also note that you can use Ausoex Scan and Forewarned on Gate of Infinity arrivals.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: Honestly I read it the same way as he said. Shunting is unaffected by this. What is affected are units that were deployed as reinforcements and then coming in at a later turn. It even specifies units that are deployed as reserves in the rule if I remember correctly.
Let's look at it closely.
TACTICAL RESERVES
Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in Reserve, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements.
One could argue Tactical Reserves doesn't apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield.
When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined Power Ratings of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total Power Level, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.
Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cults unit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems).
Okay. The first paragraph there just means you have to set up 50% of your army based on Power Level. It's not based on the number of units anymore. Fine with this.
The second paragraph, it's saying this other important part of the rule applies to [u]any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player's first turn.[/u] It's important to note the distinction: the unit must be arriving on the battlefield from somewhere else that allows it to be set up mid-game as reinforcements. It's not necessarily talking about units that have already been set up on the battlefield.
One could argue this part does not apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield. Gate of Infinity happens after the unit has already arrived on the battlefield, despite the language about removing it and setting it up. It is arriving on the battlefield again, but not from some other place where it was set up.
Not saying this is the only interpretation, but that it could be argued that way.
Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.
This final piece makes me think this interpretation is the correct one. If a unit becomes REINFORCEMENTS when it is removed from the battlefield using Gate of Infinity, that unit would automatically be destroyed after turn 3. I don't think that's RAI, why would GOI stop working after turn 3?
I get it that GW is trying to blunt the impact of alpha strikes. I don't think GoI really runs counter to that, you can only use it once per turn in matched play and it affects a single unit.
I see the other side of the argument you're giving in the middle there but from a spirit of the game perspective it doesn't make sense. I realize you agreed with me (I think?) but it just irks me that people try to nitpick rules like this when they obviously go against the spirit of what is intended. When I read the GOI rule or shunt it's meant to be an example within the rule for how they are moving/interacting in the game when it references "Like deep strike". They aren't literally redeploying as reserves. Otherwise you're correct, they would be destroyed by using GOI if they used it on turn 4... which is simply a ludicrous thing to do. Therefore I think GK might actually be OK with this new deep strike rule, as I said before.
I don't play Grey Knights by the way. I just thought I'd poke into the thread and give an opinion for what I would view as the intention and maybe soothe some of the butt hurt I've seen.
Tactical Reserves =/= Reinforcements all the time. The spirit of the rules is that stuff like GoI and Da Jump get effected by things which impact reinforcements(they even specifically FAQ'd to say this in at least one case). So this should hold too.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/16 22:28:35
Why is it when people math out Dark Reapers, they don't look at all of the synergy they have that makes them good?
-1 to hit
shoot twice
guide
etc...
And of course even if it takes more points to kill that first predator, it's a nobrainer because you're eliminating the REASON that 3 predators were brought in the first place. I mean seriously folks... Killing 1 predator out of 3 does way more than just remove 1 predator worth of points.
Of course none of this matters because Grey Knights don't even have access to predators, do they? If they did, Grey Knights predators would actually be pretty solid, considering they have astral aim, and gate of infinity to reposition them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/16 22:31:25
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
WHAT THE feth IS THIS CRAP. WHO THE feth DESIGNED OUR ARMY.
I can't do anything but ask that anyone reading this actually send an email to GW to complain about the horrible state of the game for certain factions.
Quickjager wrote: WHAT THE feth IS THIS CRAP. WHO THE feth DESIGNED OUR ARMY.
I can't do anything but ask that anyone reading this actually send an email to GW to complain about the horrible state of the game for certain factions.
I knew an important GK reaction was missing but I couldn't put my finger on it.
Crimson Devil wrote: They can still ally easily into an Imperium army. All you have to do is make a pure GK detachment of them.
Assuming you don't play with TFG. As usual GW's usual sloppy writing results in rule that could easily be read as every detachment needs to share keyword(imperium not usable). So GW's FAQ needs a FAQ.
No it really doesn't. You're letting your rage color your understanding.
And to be honest if you play against TFGs, than you deserve what you get.
and not only you cant DS everywhere turn one but you cant also use anymore powers like warptime to move as page 5 handbook FAQ states
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ArmchairArbiter wrote: Honestly I read it the same way as he said. Shunting is unaffected by this. What is affected are units that were deployed as reinforcements and then coming in at a later turn. It even specifies units that are deployed as reserves in the rule if I remember correctly.
Let's look at it closely.
TACTICAL RESERVES
Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in Reserve, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements.
One could argue Tactical Reserves doesn't apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield.
When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined Power Ratings of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total Power Level, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.
Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cults unit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems).
Okay. The first paragraph there just means you have to set up 50% of your army based on Power Level. It's not based on the number of units anymore. Fine with this.
The second paragraph, it's saying this other important part of the rule applies to [u]any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player's first turn.[/u] It's important to note the distinction: the unit must be arriving on the battlefield from somewhere else that allows it to be set up mid-game as reinforcements. It's not necessarily talking about units that have already been set up on the battlefield.
One could argue this part does not apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield. Gate of Infinity happens after the unit has already arrived on the battlefield, despite the language about removing it and setting it up. It is arriving on the battlefield again, but not from some other place where it was set up.
Not saying this is the only interpretation, but that it could be argued that way.
Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.
This final piece makes me think this interpretation is the correct one. If a unit becomes REINFORCEMENTS when it is removed from the battlefield using Gate of Infinity, that unit would automatically be destroyed after turn 3. I don't think that's RAI, why would GOI stop working after turn 3?
I get it that GW is trying to blunt the impact of alpha strikes. I don't think GoI really runs counter to that, you can only use it once per turn in matched play and it affects a single unit.
You're all looking at the wrong one. Tactical Reserves aren't part of this. Reinforcements is the rule you want.
Also note that you can use Ausoex Scan and Forewarned on Gate of Infinity arrivals.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: Honestly I read it the same way as he said. Shunting is unaffected by this. What is affected are units that were deployed as reinforcements and then coming in at a later turn. It even specifies units that are deployed as reserves in the rule if I remember correctly.
Let's look at it closely.
TACTICAL RESERVES
Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in Reserve, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements.
One could argue Tactical Reserves doesn't apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield.
When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined Power Ratings of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total Power Level, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.
Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cults unit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems).
Okay. The first paragraph there just means you have to set up 50% of your army based on Power Level. It's not based on the number of units anymore. Fine with this.
The second paragraph, it's saying this other important part of the rule applies to [u]any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player's first turn.[/u] It's important to note the distinction: the unit must be arriving on the battlefield from somewhere else that allows it to be set up mid-game as reinforcements. It's not necessarily talking about units that have already been set up on the battlefield.
One could argue this part does not apply to a unit that has already been set up on the battlefield. Gate of Infinity happens after the unit has already arrived on the battlefield, despite the language about removing it and setting it up. It is arriving on the battlefield again, but not from some other place where it was set up.
Not saying this is the only interpretation, but that it could be argued that way.
Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.
This final piece makes me think this interpretation is the correct one. If a unit becomes REINFORCEMENTS when it is removed from the battlefield using Gate of Infinity, that unit would automatically be destroyed after turn 3. I don't think that's RAI, why would GOI stop working after turn 3?
I get it that GW is trying to blunt the impact of alpha strikes. I don't think GoI really runs counter to that, you can only use it once per turn in matched play and it affects a single unit.
I see the other side of the argument you're giving in the middle there but from a spirit of the game perspective it doesn't make sense. I realize you agreed with me (I think?) but it just irks me that people try to nitpick rules like this when they obviously go against the spirit of what is intended. When I read the GOI rule or shunt it's meant to be an example within the rule for how they are moving/interacting in the game when it references "Like deep strike". They aren't literally redeploying as reserves. Otherwise you're correct, they would be destroyed by using GOI if they used it on turn 4... which is simply a ludicrous thing to do. Therefore I think GK might actually be OK with this new deep strike rule, as I said before.
I don't play Grey Knights by the way. I just thought I'd poke into the thread and give an opinion for what I would view as the intention and maybe soothe some of the butt hurt I've seen.
Tactical Reserves =/= Reinforcements all the time. The spirit of the rules is that stuff like GoI and Da Jump get effected by things which impact reinforcements(they even specifically FAQ'd to say this in at least one case). So this should hold too.
I just take that to mean those special rules get to interact with them as if they were performing that action. They are rules designed to counter something appearing right in front of you, therefore they get to do so against rules that follow a similar pattern?
I guess we'll have to have another clarification from them but I hold to my interpretation that it wouldn't impact GOI, Shunts or Da Jump.
blackmage wrote: and not only you cant DS everywhere turn one but you cant also use anymore powers like warptime to move as page 5 handbook FAQ states
To clairfy, you mean you can't use it on reinforcements/deep striking units correct? Because that's how I read what you're referencing. That seems to be a fair change.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Quickjager wrote: You know Iberian ham is only in salt for like 2 weeks yea?
Not, it doesnt, the minimun is 40 days and the maximun is two months based in the amount of fat the piece has, but I was trying to use a classic salty spanish food for the metaphor that everyone would know.
I know you are pissed but pay it with GW not with me.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/16 23:26:03
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
BlackLobster wrote: The solution to not deep striking on the first turn is deep strike on second. Simples. It makes sense that players want to have at least one turn before they get hammered in assault.
"hammered in assault" it's almost like if they wanted to counter that, they could use bubble wrap, smart positioning, or just shoot the CC unit after it fails to make it points back in one turn of close combat. Also, deep striking turn two as grey knights is the equivalent of basically letting your army get cleaned off the table turn one so that you don't make it to turn two.
BlackLobster wrote: The solution to not deep striking on the first turn is deep strike on second. Simples. It makes sense that players want to have at least one turn before they get hammered in assault.
"hammered in assault" it's almost like if they wanted to counter that, they could use bubble wrap, smart positioning, or just shoot the CC unit after it fails to make it points back in one turn of close combat. Also, deep striking turn two as grey knights is the equivalent of basically letting your army get cleaned off the table turn one so that you don't make it to turn two.
How about players who want to get in at least one turn before getting SHOT OFF THE TABLE? Cause last I looked, gunline alpha strikes were a problem long before a blood angel captain could charge turn 1...and still are a problem.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Bharring wrote: For most armies, it takes a greater proportion of their army to drop 1 Pred than the proportion of the army it takes to take one pred. By a reasonably large margin. Preds aren't glass-canon.
I lose leman russ or two turn 1 pretty much every game. Now remind me. Was leman russ tougher or soften than predator?
If enemy has firepower to take out leman russ or two in T1 what chance do you think I would give predator to survive?
Crimson Devil wrote: They can still ally easily into an Imperium army. All you have to do is make a pure GK detachment of them.
Assuming you don't play with TFG. As usual GW's usual sloppy writing results in rule that could easily be read as every detachment needs to share keyword(imperium not usable). So GW's FAQ needs a FAQ.
No it really doesn't. You're letting your rage color your understanding.
And to be honest if you play against TFGs, than you deserve what you get.
Read it again. I have already seen that interpretation by several peoples. GW being GW...
And out of us you are the one in rage
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 05:34:23
Similar but slightly different option from the resident Blood Angels player.
The On Wings of Fire stratagem does work turn 1, and operates identically as GoI, with the stipulation that its a stratagem and requires the target unit have Jump Packs of course.
You move a unit that was already set up and place it anywhere on the battlefield outside of 9" from the enemy at the end of the movement phase.
This works the same in the beta rules because you're not placing the unit into reserves, but moving it in the movement phase.
Gate of Infinity seems to be the same only you're moving in the Psychic phase instead. At least that's my understanding.
Offering my thoughts. Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.
Bharring wrote: Yeah, I was surprised by how "right" the points were when they got cleaned up. Loving the nerf to Reapers - just right.
Would you agree with this point:
Part of the value of Killshot, when you bring 3 Preds, is that the opponent may need to prioritize killing one of the Preds over something else. So if you lose a Pred and not something more important on top of 1, Killshot helped you out.
?
Not really.
Predators aren't cheap enough. You'd rather lose other things over your Predators.
Not that Bharring cares as the precious Prisms are still safe because you'd need to kill TWO of them rather than JUST one to make the Strategem go kaput. You know, the Strategem that's better than Killshot in the first place!
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Red__Thirst wrote: Similar but slightly different option from the resident Blood Angels player.
The On Wings of Fire stratagem does work turn 1, and operates identically as GoI, with the stipulation that its a stratagem and requires the target unit have Jump Packs of course.
You move a unit that was already set up and place it anywhere on the battlefield outside of 9" from the enemy at the end of the movement phase.
This works the same in the beta rules because you're not placing the unit into reserves, but moving it in the movement phase.
Gate of Infinity seems to be the same only you're moving in the Psychic phase instead. At least that's my understanding.
Offering my thoughts. Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
What's wording? Orks Da Jump says "remove from battlefield and then SET IT UP on the battlefield.
If identical no wings, no GK jump. If different then gee orks got shafted by having our da jump removed from T1 use while GK/blood angels don't.
These beta rules for deep strikes could mean gk demise.
We heavily relied on those turn one well placed charges as we haven’t got a good long range weapon( we have those in common with space marines but most of them have suffered because of how they used them) and because we should be a surgical elite army (similar to custodes but squishy)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 07:36:12
It's Upon Wings of Fire, correction on the name, and also it's not at the end of the movement phase, but before moving a jump pack unit on the table.
Here's the exact wording:
Gate of infinity has a similar wording regarding being set up.
Here's the new deployment rules from the Community page.
Now a couple of key things to note here.
In the second paragraph it specifically notes the unit as Arriving on the tabletop and deploying those units (not setting up, deploying), meaning they have not been placed on the tabletop previously as units using GoI or Upon Wings of Fire both must be to use the psychic power or stratagem.
Also, the statement regarding the third paragraph noting that any units not deployed from reserve by the end of turn 3 are destroyed, and if using GoI or UWoF stratagem places units in reserve as some argue it would mean they are destroyed immediately if either is used. That's pants-on-head stupid if you're arguing that. They're abilities that allow for limited (one unit) additional movement and don't violate the new beta rule.
An example using the UWoF Strat.
-I use Forlorn Fury stratagem before the first turn of the game starts to move+advance my Death Company across the board. Then the game starts and the DC move a second time, landing within ~6" of an enemy unit.
-I then, in my movement phase prior to moving the model, use the Upon Wings of Fire stratagem to pick up my Lemartes model that had been deployed already and place it within 6" of the Death Company that already moved previously in the movement phase and also keep the model outside of 9" of any enemy models as well.
This does not violate the beta rules. Gate of infinity doesn't either. You can only target a single unit with it.
Just my view on it. Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.
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