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I'd agree with the above, as detestable as plasma spam scions are, what are they hunting that your knights won't have been better equipped to tackle?
Ivun saves= Avenger
Heavy Armour = Termal or CC
Multiwound midels= RFBC or AGC
Hoards = feet

Found the reason they thought armigers didn’t need to generate cp, 3 cp a turn you can make a literally untouchable knight nothing can deal with unless you yourself charge and get it killed in your own turn “our darkest hour” has no limitations on it for 2 cp, for 1 more you fight on top profile

Limited cp inherent to a specific codex is meaningless when for the point cost of one Armiger you can get 5 cp from an AM Battery. No, that’s not “the reason”.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Limited cp inherent to a specific codex is meaningless when for the point cost of one Armiger you can get 5 cp from an AM Battery. No, that’s not “the reason”.

SJ

This. There is no good reason for it. Period.

On the discussion about Reaper Chainsword vs. Thunderstrike Gauntlet:
Don't forget that the "hit someone on a ruin" stratagem explicitly requires to have one of those weapons. You cannot do it with feet.

Question to the guard battalions:
Is it worth it to put them in chimeras? The 30 infantrymen will die quickly and with the transports you will overload the enemy even more on vehicles.

Another way to deal with enemies upstairs in ruins is to shoot them. I can’t see this being a major problem in most cases. The stratagem to fight them in cc isn’t amazingly good, as you’re only likely to kill a couple of models with a reaper chainsword, and less than that with the fist.

On CPs, I find the idea of a “CP-heavy” codex kind of hilarious. It just means a codex with stratagems that you’d actually like to use, unlike the ones in something like the SM codex. 6 isn’t many CPs, but it’s actually what a lot of people had before the recent FAQ.

Knights were almost viable before the codex, when they had no stratagems. Now they are cheaper and have a bunch of great stratagems, but apparently they need an AM battalion to be viable.

My suggestion is to just live with not having that many CPs. It would be nice to have more, but not as nice as having more knights. I might be biased in this feeling because I play Taranis. My strategy is basically to outlast my opponent, by fielding as many T8 wounds with FNP as possible. I probably won’t be taking more relics and extra warlord traits – other than the near-obligatory cunning commander. I think I can manage with 6 CPs, but it may be that other houses suit a more aggressive play-style, which justifies bringing a battery along.

Mandragola wrote:
Another way to deal with enemies upstairs in ruins is to shoot them. I can’t see this being a major problem in most cases. The stratagem to fight them in cc isn’t amazingly good, as you’re only likely to kill a couple of models with a reaper chainsword, and less than that with the fist.

On CPs, I find the idea of a “CP-heavy” codex kind of hilarious. It just means a codex with stratagems that you’d actually like to use, unlike the ones in something like the SM codex. 6 isn’t many CPs, but it’s actually what a lot of people had before the recent FAQ.

Knights were almost viable before the codex, when they had no stratagems. Now they are cheaper and have a bunch of great stratagems, but apparently they need an AM battalion to be viable.

My suggestion is to just live with not having that many CPs. It would be nice to have more, but not as nice as having more knights. I might be biased in this feeling because I play Taranis. My strategy is basically to outlast my opponent, by fielding as many T8 wounds with FNP as possible. I probably won’t be taking more relics and extra warlord traits – other than the near-obligatory cunning commander. I think I can manage with 6 CPs, but it may be that other houses suit a more aggressive play-style, which justifies bringing a battery along.

I agree. Knights are pretty interesting and viable without soup, but, you do then have to pretty much build your list around a single idea as you won’t have the CP flexibility to attempt to go down more than 1 strategy imo.

Looking at my list for July, I’m pretty much spending 10CP before the game and in deployment, leaving me with 6CP – which after I take Full Tilt, Death Grip and RIS into account, I’m down to 2. Would be wholly relying on getting a couple back with Kurov’s Aquila, otherwise, my 2 turns need to be absolutely incredible.

I could save myself an additional 3CP, but it would completely depend on who I am up against, and whether or not, I’d expect to have all my infantry just shot off the table turn 1.

Looking forward to getting some kits built when I get home from work in a couple of hours!

gendoikari87 wrote:
Found the reason they thought armigers didn’t need to generate cp, 3 cp a turn you can make a literally untouchable knight nothing can deal with unless you yourself charge and get it killed in your own turn “our darkest hour” has no limitations on it for 2 cp, for 1 more you fight on top profile

Run that past me again mate. What was the reason?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:
Another way to deal with enemies upstairs in ruins is to shoot them. I can’t see this being a major problem in most cases. The stratagem to fight them in cc isn’t amazingly good, as you’re only likely to kill a couple of models with a reaper chainsword, and less than that with the fist.

On CPs, I find the idea of a “CP-heavy” codex kind of hilarious. It just means a codex with stratagems that you’d actually like to use, unlike the ones in something like the SM codex. 6 isn’t many CPs, but it’s actually what a lot of people had before the recent FAQ.

Knights were almost viable before the codex, when they had no stratagems. Now they are cheaper and have a bunch of great stratagems, but apparently they need an AM battalion to be viable.

My suggestion is to just live with not having that many CPs. It would be nice to have more, but not as nice as having more knights. I might be biased in this feeling because I play Taranis. My strategy is basically to outlast my opponent, by fielding as many T8 wounds with FNP as possible. I probably won’t be taking more relics and extra warlord traits – other than the near-obligatory cunning commander. I think I can manage with 6 CPs, but it may be that other houses suit a more aggressive play-style, which justifies bringing a battery along.

I like you.

HONOUR THY FORGE, HONOUR THE PRIMUS ORDINUS

Wow. How are you spending 10 CPs before deployment?

I’m looking at taking this army at 1750pts:

Castellan with 4 missiles and 1 turret (which I know is worse, but it saves points!). Ion Bulwark and Cawl’s Wrath. 593

Warden with reaper chainsword and ironstorm rocket pod. 427

Errant with fist. 400

2 Armigers with stubbers. 328

The tournament lets you spend CPs before the battle on stuff like extra relics without writing them on your list, so I usually won’t. But I think I’ll always take cunning commander for 0CP (total) on one of the knights, and maybe take a relic on the other one so that all 3 are characters. Endless fury on the Warden is likely to be the one I go for, though there are plenty of other good options of course.

I would consider a gallant instead of the two armigers, but it doesn’t really work well with the points. I’d have to turn the warden into an errant and lose its rocket pod, which overall would mean a significant loss of firepower. I actually think the armigers are a great deal for their price. They are too dangerous to ignore, so hopefully they’ll draw fire off my big guys. If that means I’ve got a big knight or two running around after the enemy runs out of anti-knight firepower, I should be in good shape.

They are only using eternal war stratagems, not maelstrom, so I’m not as worried about maelstrom as I might otherwise have been. The relic might be a slight issue though, as nobody in my list can pick it up! I’d actually consider dropping an armigers and switching the Errant for a gallant so as to try and squeeze in some assassins or something - but I think I’ll just go with an all-knight approach instead.

What do y'all knight players think of the Knight Styrix? As a Mechanicus player I have been building one with this as a goal:

Knight Styrix
reaper chainsword - relic: reroll 1s to hit, strength 16
volkite chierovile: 45" heavy 5 strength 8 AP -3 damage d6, wound roll of 6 generates additional hit on target
house Mortan: no household bonus because Auxiliary detachment
house Mortan warlord trait: -1 to be hit from 18" or further away
house Mortan stratagem: 1cp ignore all negative shooting modifiers, for enemy -2 to hit Alaitoc flyers
other special defensive properties: 4++ vs shooting 5++ vs melee from Knight Styrix special ability
other special defensive properties: regenerate 1 wound per turn on a 6 from Knight Styrix special ability
other special offensive properties: ignore cover (except va vehicles) from Knight Styrix special ability

475 points, 2 command points

Is it time to either change the name or start a “post-codex” thread?

Post Codex should begin. I'm happy to go start it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/758543.page#10018913

Done.

Mandragola wrote:
Wow. How are you spending 10 CPs before deployment?

I’m looking at taking this army at 1750pts:

Castellan with 4 missiles and 1 turret (which I know is worse, but it saves points!). Ion Bulwark and Cawl’s Wrath. 593

Warden with reaper chainsword and ironstorm rocket pod. 427

Errant with fist. 400

2 Armigers with stubbers. 328

The tournament lets you spend CPs before the battle on stuff like extra relics without writing them on your list, so I usually won’t. But I think I’ll always take cunning commander for 0CP (total) on one of the knights, and maybe take a relic on the other one so that all 3 are characters. Endless fury on the Warden is likely to be the one I go for, though there are plenty of other good options of course.

I would consider a gallant instead of the two armigers, but it doesn’t really work well with the points. I’d have to turn the warden into an errant and lose its rocket pod, which overall would mean a significant loss of firepower. I actually think the armigers are a great deal for their price. They are too dangerous to ignore, so hopefully they’ll draw fire off my big guys. If that means I’ve got a big knight or two running around after the enemy runs out of anti-knight firepower, I should be in good shape.

They are only using eternal war stratagems, not maelstrom, so I’m not as worried about maelstrom as I might otherwise have been. The relic might be a slight issue though, as nobody in my list can pick it up! I’d actually consider dropping an armigers and switching the Errant for a gallant so as to try and squeeze in some assassins or something - but I think I’ll just go with an all-knight approach instead.

6 on exalted court and 2 extra relics.
1 on guard aquila relic
probably 3 on tallarn ambush in order to keep some troops alive til turn 3.

Kdash wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Another way to deal with enemies upstairs in ruins is to shoot them. I can’t see this being a major problem in most cases. The stratagem to fight them in cc isn’t amazingly good, as you’re only likely to kill a couple of models with a reaper chainsword, and less than that with the fist.

On CPs, I find the idea of a “CP-heavy” codex kind of hilarious. It just means a codex with stratagems that you’d actually like to use, unlike the ones in something like the SM codex. 6 isn’t many CPs, but it’s actually what a lot of people had before the recent FAQ.

Knights were almost viable before the codex, when they had no stratagems. Now they are cheaper and have a bunch of great stratagems, but apparently they need an AM battalion to be viable.

My suggestion is to just live with not having that many CPs. It would be nice to have more, but not as nice as having more knights. I might be biased in this feeling because I play Taranis. My strategy is basically to outlast my opponent, by fielding as many T8 wounds with FNP as possible. I probably won’t be taking more relics and extra warlord traits – other than the near-obligatory cunning commander. I think I can manage with 6 CPs, but it may be that other houses suit a more aggressive play-style, which justifies bringing a battery along.

I agree. Knights are pretty interesting and viable without soup, but, you do then have to pretty much build your list around a single idea as you won’t have the CP flexibility to attempt to go down more than 1 strategy imo.

Looking at my list for July, I’m pretty much spending 10CP before the game and in deployment, leaving me with 6CP – which after I take Full Tilt, Death Grip and RIS into account, I’m down to 2. Would be wholly relying on getting a couple back with Kurov’s Aquila, otherwise, my 2 turns need to be absolutely incredible.

I could save myself an additional 3CP, but it would completely depend on who I am up against, and whether or not, I’d expect to have all my infantry just shot off the table turn 1.

Looking forward to getting some kits built when I get home from work in a couple of hours!

Holy gak, 16cp. Lol
If that doesn't show an issue with the AM battery I don't know what would.
I thought 8 was a lot.

Danny slag wrote:

Kdash wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Another way to deal with enemies upstairs in ruins is to shoot them. I can’t see this being a major problem in most cases. The stratagem to fight them in cc isn’t amazingly good, as you’re only likely to kill a couple of models with a reaper chainsword, and less than that with the fist.

On CPs, I find the idea of a “CP-heavy” codex kind of hilarious. It just means a codex with stratagems that you’d actually like to use, unlike the ones in something like the SM codex. 6 isn’t many CPs, but it’s actually what a lot of people had before the recent FAQ.

Knights were almost viable before the codex, when they had no stratagems. Now they are cheaper and have a bunch of great stratagems, but apparently they need an AM battalion to be viable.

My suggestion is to just live with not having that many CPs. It would be nice to have more, but not as nice as having more knights. I might be biased in this feeling because I play Taranis. My strategy is basically to outlast my opponent, by fielding as many T8 wounds with FNP as possible. I probably won’t be taking more relics and extra warlord traits – other than the near-obligatory cunning commander. I think I can manage with 6 CPs, but it may be that other houses suit a more aggressive play-style, which justifies bringing a battery along.

I agree. Knights are pretty interesting and viable without soup, but, you do then have to pretty much build your list around a single idea as you won’t have the CP flexibility to attempt to go down more than 1 strategy imo.

Looking at my list for July, I’m pretty much spending 10CP before the game and in deployment, leaving me with 6CP – which after I take Full Tilt, Death Grip and RIS into account, I’m down to 2. Would be wholly relying on getting a couple back with Kurov’s Aquila, otherwise, my 2 turns need to be absolutely incredible.

I could save myself an additional 3CP, but it would completely depend on who I am up against, and whether or not, I’d expect to have all my infantry just shot off the table turn 1.

Looking forward to getting some kits built when I get home from work in a couple of hours!

Holy gak, 16cp. Lol
If that doesn't show an issue with the AM battery I don't know what would.
I thought 8 was a lot.

I totally agree.

Under 1500 points of Knights, and then 2 AM battalions containing melta, plasma and 70 bodies. I wouldn't use this in friendly games though... unless it turns out that it REALLY sucks

Yeah, I’m not sure about the CP loss for less than three Questor and/or Dominus per Lance. It says as much in the rules, but there are two examples in the book that contradict this.

One page shows a Questor and two Armigers, stating that Lance gives them 6 CP total (3 for Super Heavy Detachment + starting 3). Another shows an army of two Super Heavy Detachments with Armigers for a CP total of 9.

So... yeah, the examples provided are breaking the codex’s own rules. Maybe the FAQ will correct this.

Remember, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

Danny slag wrote:
What are people's thoughts on the chain sword, specifically for errant. The gauntlet is sexy, but you really have to take the relic gauntlet if you want to fist, otherwise you're going to miss too much. So for my errant I can go relic gauntlet, or relic melee Invul save + chain sword. Can't decide if the save is worth giving up the fist, kinda feels like it is because most melee units have AP, and having your expensive knifpght get into melee just to be wrecked by 200pts of power axes sounds sad. Plus the chain sword has enough strength and so for most things you'll be in melee with, except maybe a land raider.

Feet and Gauntlet are almost always better than the Reaper except against things like Tau Commanders. If you don't want to use Death Grip, then don't use it.

There is now a post-Codex release thread. Locking this one.

New thread:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/758543.page