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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Since I'm not familiar how many different types of ship does the Federation have? I know everyone loves to just use the standard ISD 1 and 2, TIE fighters, and Bombers from the scene but general canon has far more different types of ships for the Empire. ISD's shots against smaller ships are because they are meant to be shooting other capital ships. They've got a contingent of TIE's and smaller shots for better tracking of smaller ships. Not counting the Tector class which had no hanger.

Why do none of these ships show up in any of the 9 starwars films? They could have been very useful considering the primary mode of attack for all rebels is with fighters. Is the empire so stupid as to not place these ships in a place they know they are going to be attacked by a large contengent of fighters to defend their most important asset? These are the people that are supposed to defeat the federation which has defeated - the Borg, the Dominion, the Cardiasians, and the Klingons?

If we really want to go to these levels of insanity.
How bout this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFzufch254k
I mean I really didn't want to pull out this voyager shenanigans (because I thought the last few season of voyager were total crap) but it really settels the debate.

Voyager brought so much technology back with it. Transphasic torpedos (they 1 shot borg cubes). Transwarp coils (essnetially hyperspace tech). Along with some insane combat armor. This means the empire has literally nothing on the federation.

I'm just going to use one comment from that video given how things tend to work in Star Trek

And here we have yet another awesome, game changing defensive technology that is just so cool, Starfleet immediately ignores it and decides to never use it on their ships again.

Why do none of these ships show up in any of the 9 starwars films?

Well lets see.. The first three concern the Republic, which used entirely different ships while being a mostly peacetime civilization as a result many things had to be quickly brought to bear and used by the clone armies.. With some of the better tech going into the Empire's stuff... And as for the new trilogy you have advanced versions (Chromatically superior coloring as well. ) with the First Order's TIE fighters being innately superior with shielding and overall higher training, and the TIE Special Forces being TIE fighter with additional gunner and missile/torpedo (It's the ship Finn and Poe steal to escape) though in general it seems like the First Order just took the basics of the Empire and kitted them better.

In general though you have such a minor timeframe because it's a movie with the OT coming first.. It's kind of like basing everything the Federation has upon the first Gene Roddenberry series rather then what comes after. Many new tech shows up in the supplemental series being used by Inquisitors, with TIE Defenders showing up in Rebels being so innately superior in all things that they had to cripple them before the end of the series to explain why the Empire didn't just use them to completely screw over the Rebellion given how superior they were to every single other ship shown.

The Empire lost against itself. It is one big house of cards that is one push from collapsing on itself. It is pretty much the definition of a paper tiger, as all its military power is undermined by their politics, demographics, incompetence, etc.

 Peregrine wrote:

Higher canon is the script for ESB

But not the scripts for any of the other cannon movies? That's pretty selective.

 Peregrine wrote:

This is indisputable fact, like it or not. The rebel fleet's rendezvous point is located far outside the galaxy, and the rebel ships were able to get there in a very short time. Star Wars travel speeds are vastly faster than anything Star Trek is capable of.

Star Wars cannon states that the rendezvous was by a protostar orbiting the Star Wars Galaxy, not exactly extra galactic travel in the sense you mean. And how long did the Yuuzhan Vong take to get to The Star Wars Galaxy?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Since I'm not familiar how many different types of ship does the Federation have? I know everyone loves to just use the standard ISD 1 and 2, TIE fighters, and Bombers from the scene but general canon has far more different types of ships for the Empire. ISD's shots against smaller ships are because they are meant to be shooting other capital ships. They've got a contingent of TIE's and smaller shots for better tracking of smaller ships. Not counting the Tector class which had no hanger.

Why do none of these ships show up in any of the 9 starwars films? They could have been very useful considering the primary mode of attack for all rebels is with fighters. Is the empire so stupid as to not place these ships in a place they know they are going to be attacked by a large contengent of fighters to defend their most important asset? These are the people that are supposed to defeat the federation which has defeated - the Borg, the Dominion, the Cardiasians, and the Klingons?

If we really want to go to these levels of insanity.
How bout this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFzufch254k
I mean I really didn't want to pull out this voyager shenanigans (because I thought the last few season of voyager were total crap) but it really settels the debate.

Voyager brought so much technology back with it. Transphasic torpedos (they 1 shot borg cubes). Transwarp coils (essnetially hyperspace tech). Along with some insane combat armor. This means the empire has literally nothing on the federation.

Except their inherently pacifist nature. They do not strike the first blow. Ever.

So you can rock on up, show off your muscle - and just bide your time.

Or do a proper Palpatine, and arrange a few wars in the Alpha Quadrant first. Let them beat themselves bloody, sweep in and take over power. Remember, the Federation may have high ideals - shame about the general human populace on frontier worlds. So you let High Command get sick of war. Let them start to make overtures of peace to their aggressors (also Alpha Quadrant natives, because you're manipulating events), whilst ensuring the general populace is so brutalised and angry, that your sudden arrival to take on 'The Bad Guys' has you seen as a saviour. Popular opinion on your behalf, take over the Federation.

 Peregrine wrote:

Might want to watch at 30 seconds in your own video, where the Galaxy misses a capital ship (which is barely moving) at point blank range. Or all the times in your video where the ships appear to be a few hundred feet apart and barely moving, casting serious doubt on your claims of extreme maneuverability and FTL combat.

That ship was not an actual ship but a psychic projection from the planet created by an incredibly powerful psychic lifeform, akin to the Q.

It was merely trying to scare the Enterprise away.

 dogma wrote:
But not the scripts for any of the other cannon movies? That's pretty selective.

If you can provide a contradictory script element from one of the other movies that addresses a specific scene from ESB then yes, you'd have a canon conflict. But AFAIK none of the other movies have the same location in them, and they could not contradict anything from the ESB scene.

Star Wars cannon states that the rendezvous was by a protostar orbiting the Star Wars Galaxy, not exactly extra galactic travel in the sense you mean.

And higher canon, the actual movie, disagrees with whatever EU licensed product had the protostar claim. In a conflict between the movie and a third-party tie-in book the movie wins, especially when the person whose job is to make decisions on what is and isn't canon has stated that the object in question is the Star Wars galaxy.

And how long did the Yuuzhan Vong take to get to The Star Wars Galaxy?

Don't know, don't care. That dumpster fire is not canon anymore, thank god.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Perigune you are off your rocker man. The defiant flying through enemy formations while dodging incoming fire and doing 360s around enemy ships is not star destroyer manuverability.

The Defiant is the rare exception to the rule, and even the Defiant is pretty slow. It may be a bit more maneuverable than a star destroyer, but it's hardly an impossible target like you want to present it.

Like I said - not even a match for federation ships straight up.

Except in firepower and defense, where the Star Wars ships have orders of magnitude better numbers. The star destroyer can ignore any Federation attacks while it exterminates everything on the planet it is orbiting, while even a single hit from its guns will likely annihilate a Federation warship.

Remember, in the old Star Wars canon we got actual firepower numbers: ~200 gigatons per shot from a Clone Wars era troop transport's main guns. That's ~30 times the entire world's nuclear arsenal, per shot. And before you protest that the old EU is no longer canon, those numbers were based on scaling from on-screen evidence. The current canon number may be somewhat different, but it is not going to be sufficiently off to matter when compared to the high-end official (though not canon) firepower numbers for photon torpedoes at ~64 megatons per shot.

If in the event they were outmatch - they could just utilize warp hit and run attacks.

And do zero damage. Hit and run attacks don't help when the enemy is busy exterminating your entire civilian population. You either stand and fight to the death to stop them (which the Federation can not do, because its weapons and defenses are orders of magnitude weaker than the star destroyers), or you concede total defeat and run away to save your own lives at the cost of the (incredibly tiny) chance of miraculously saving your civilization.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Since I'm not familiar how many different types of ship does the Federation have? I know everyone loves to just use the standard ISD 1 and 2, TIE fighters, and Bombers from the scene but general canon has far more different types of ships for the Empire. ISD's shots against smaller ships are because they are meant to be shooting other capital ships. They've got a contingent of TIE's and smaller shots for better tracking of smaller ships. Not counting the Tector class which had no hanger.

Why do none of these ships show up in any of the 9 starwars films? They could have been very useful considering the primary mode of attack for all rebels is with fighters. Is the empire so stupid as to not place these ships in a place they know they are going to be attacked by a large contengent of fighters to defend their most important asset? These are the people that are supposed to defeat the federation which has defeated - the Borg, the Dominion, the Cardiasians, and the Klingons?

If we really want to go to these levels of insanity.
How bout this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFzufch254k
I mean I really didn't want to pull out this voyager shenanigans (because I thought the last few season of voyager were total crap) but it really settels the debate.

Voyager brought so much technology back with it. Transphasic torpedos (they 1 shot borg cubes). Transwarp coils (essnetially hyperspace tech). Along with some insane combat armor. This means the empire has literally nothing on the federation.

Except their inherently pacifist nature. They do not strike the first blow. Ever.

So you can rock on up, show off your muscle - and just bide your time.

Or do a proper Palpatine, and arrange a few wars in the Alpha Quadrant first. Let them beat themselves bloody, sweep in and take over power. Remember, the Federation may have high ideals - shame about the general human populace on frontier worlds. So you let High Command get sick of war. Let them start to make overtures of peace to their aggressors (also Alpha Quadrant natives, because you're manipulating events), whilst ensuring the general populace is so brutalised and angry, that your sudden arrival to take on 'The Bad Guys' has you seen as a saviour. Popular opinion on your behalf, take over the Federation.

Not if this guy has anything to say about it.

Depending on interpretation Photon Torpedoes are either orders of magnitude weaker than the 200 gigaton figure given by Peregrine above, at a mere 64 megatons each, or three times more powerful, at 690 gigatons. That's one Photon Torpedo for every 3 turbolaser hits, and then some. This isn't taking into account Quantum Torpedoes, Transphasic Torpedoes, tricobalt devices or any other non-Photon Torpedo weapon.

Peregrine went with the lower estimate, which would indeed make the Federation unable to fight back. That figure, however, is based on present-day understanding of physics (the output of a 3kg matter-antimatter annihilation is around 64.4 megatons) and contradicts other information from the same source, which states that Photon Torpedoes release energy roughly equivalent to a 100 cubic meter tank of antideuterium, which gives us the 690 gigaton figure.

The numbers are obviously BS. The millennium falcon gets hit unsheilded by turbo-lasers at least a few times. It did not receive 30 times the impact force of the entire worlds nuclear arsenal. Plus are you seriously trying to tell me the melenium falcons sheilds can repel 30 times earth arsenal of nuclear weapons?

 Peregrine wrote:

Remember, in the old Star Wars canon we got actual firepower numbers: ~200 gigatons per shot from a Clone Wars era troop transport's main guns. That's ~30 times the entire world's nuclear arsenal, per shot. And before you protest that the old EU is no longer canon, those numbers were based on scaling from on-screen evidence. The current canon number may be somewhat different, but it is not going to be sufficiently off to matter when compared to the high-end official (though not canon) firepower numbers for photon torpedoes at ~64 megatons per shot.

Those numbers are based on BS. Either you never saw the movies, or you never saw a nuclear detonation. But given that multi-kilometer long fireballs that reshape the landscape do not happen every time a turbolaser fires, we can dismiss any claim of gigatons. In fact, because of the Rebels tv series, we can dismiss any claim of notable firepower for Star Wars.

In my experience with starwars fans (I don't mean this in a bad way) they care a lot more about the printed literature than what is actually in film. It is the opposite with star-trek fans. They seem to care more about what happens in the episodes. I guess it probably has a lot to do with the fact there is about 1000 time more startrek film compared to starwars.

The part that bothers me the most is when the text tries to override the film or make sense of the film is a really stupid way. Like this nuclear weapon powered turbo laser...When in fact turbo lasers in the film are portrayed as working like a 5" gun on a WW2 battleship - firing lots of shots and not doing a lot of damage. They make up ion-cannons and missle launchers on ISD when there were never used in a film once from an ISD.

Also because how popular the films are. Everyone watched the films, regardless if they were fans or not. So a true SW fan needs to go beyond the films.

Of course, sometimes they forget that Star Wars is about the films, and everything else expands on that.

 Xenomancers wrote:
They make up ion-cannons and missle launchers on ISD when there were never used in a film once from an ISD.

Have missile launchers ever been shown on screen as a major part of a ships armament?

I suppose proton torpedos might count as a missile, but what else?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
They make up ion-cannons and missle launchers on ISD when there were never used in a film once from an ISD.

Have missile launchers ever been shown on screen as a major part of a ships armament?

I suppose proton torpedos might count as a missile, but what else?

To my knowledge I've never seen an ISD fire a missle - or anything but a green turbo laser (I think ion cannons are supposed to be blue) They also disable ships functions...why didn't they shoot the MF with it? It would have been immobilized? It's supposed to have 60 of them! I've never seen a missile mounted on the ship ether.

Federation ships are commonly seen firing phasers/ photon torpedos/ quantum torpedos/ using their defelctor dish to do some weird science crap/ launching tachian burst/ and a whole host of other stuff. They don't need to make up content because it is in the film.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyran wrote:
Also because how popular the films are. Everyone watched the films, regardless if they were fans or not. So a true SW fan needs to go beyond the films.

Of course, sometimes they forget that Star Wars is about the films, and everything else expands on that.

True - to be a true startrek fan all you need to do to prove your worth is watch all seasons of voyager but refuse to watch startrek enterprise. Then you are in the club.

Imagines the feds using transphasic and Genesis torpedoes, and theleron wave emitters from a cloaked ship...oh my.

 Peregrine wrote:

If you can provide a contradictory script element from one of the other movies that addresses a specific scene from ESB then yes, you'd have a canon conflict. But AFAIK none of the other movies have the same location in them, and they could not contradict anything from the ESB scene.

So "higher cannon" is what George Lucas envisioned, and Leigh Bracket/Lawrence Kasdan wrote? Again, that is a really restrictive standard; one which completely eliminates the new trilogy from cannon.

 Peregrine wrote:

And higher canon, the actual movie, disagrees with whatever EU licensed product had the protostar claim.

You're talking about the script of the actual movie, not the movie itself. And the protostar "claim" is in cannon sources, the fact that you consider it EU does not change that.

 Frazzled wrote:
Imagines the feds using transphasic and Genesis torpedoes, and theleron wave emitters from a cloaked ship...oh my.

Or a tricobalt device.

 Peregrine wrote:

The Defiant is the rare exception to the rule, and even the Defiant is pretty slow. It may be a bit more maneuverable than a star destroyer, but it's hardly an impossible target like you want to present it.

There are multiple Defiant-class ships, it's not an exception. Then there are all the other Federation ships designed to fight the Borg.

 dogma wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Higher canon is the script for ESB

But not the scripts for any of the other cannon movies? That's pretty selective.

 Peregrine wrote:

This is indisputable fact, like it or not. The rebel fleet's rendezvous point is located far outside the galaxy, and the rebel ships were able to get there in a very short time. Star Wars travel speeds are vastly faster than anything Star Trek is capable of.

Star Wars cannon states that the rendezvous was by a protostar orbiting the Star Wars Galaxy, not exactly extra galactic travel in the sense you mean. And how long did the Yuuzhan Vong take to get to The Star Wars Galaxy?

Yuuzhan Vong is not canon any longer.

But sure, let's discard the extra-galactic hideyhole.

We still have the Millenium Falcon crossing half a galaxy to find Luke. And then coming BACK in less than the 18 hours it takes the Resistance fleet to run out of fuel. While crossing the same distance in Star Trek takes decades, if not centuries.

Game, set, and match. Hyperspace is MUCH faster than Warp Drive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
In my experience with starwars fans (I don't mean this in a bad way) they care a lot more about the printed literature than what is actually in film. It is the opposite with star-trek fans. They seem to care more about what happens in the episodes. I guess it probably has a lot to do with the fact there is about 1000 time more startrek film compared to starwars.

The part that bothers me the most is when the text tries to override the film or make sense of the film is a really stupid way. Like this nuclear weapon powered turbo laser...When in fact turbo lasers in the film are portrayed as working like a 5" gun on a WW2 battleship - firing lots of shots and not doing a lot of damage. They make up ion-cannons and missle launchers on ISD when there were never used in a film once from an ISD.

Which is why I never mentioned them, and went strictly from the film. One turbolaser blast destroys one asteroid ON FILM. Two photon torpeodoes destroy one asteroid ON FILM.

Thus do I determine the two are of roughly equivalent firepower.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:
Imagines the feds using transphasic and Genesis torpedoes, and theleron wave emitters from a cloaked ship...oh my.

NSFW for language. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bBD5yyT-s0&start_radio=1&list=RD4bBD5yyT-s0

Which is why it is rather hard to have a consistent conversation about Star Trek in any capacity. Star Trek is all about 'just making some s...tuff up' when they're in a bind.

After reading some of your arguments, like how it is a new Galaxy and not a Protostar, I have come to the conclusion that Leeland Chee is probably the worst thing to happen to Star Wars. That is a pretty big achievement, since he is taking the belt from George himself on this. If it is a new Galaxy, why are they not colonising it? Further, if it is a new Galaxy, why are they there when they haven't even explored 90% of the Galaxy they are currently in? They don't need to go to a new Galaxy to hide, most of the one they are in hasn't even been explored yet. It makes no sense and it is an incredible waste of resources for such little gain.

It makes absolutely no sense for it to be a new galaxy and if Leeland Chee is the one who said it was, Leeland Chee is a moron.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
They make up ion-cannons and missle launchers on ISD when there were never used in a film once from an ISD.

Have missile launchers ever been shown on screen as a major part of a ships armament?

I suppose proton torpedos might count as a missile, but what else?

In Return of the Jedi, the Millennium Falcon is seen firing concussion missiles at the second Death Star's main reactor. Also, in the prequels, Jango Fett's Slave I fires a missile at Obi-wan Kenobi's Jedi Starfighter, and the Vulture Droid starfighters shoot missiles at Anakin and Obi-wan in the space battle in ROTS.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

Spoiler:

 Peregrine wrote:

 dogma wrote:
But not the scripts for any of the other cannon movies? That's pretty selective.

If you can provide a contradictory script element from one of the other movies that addresses a specific scene from ESB then yes, you'd have a canon conflict. But AFAIK none of the other movies have the same location in them, and they could not contradict anything from the ESB scene.

Star Wars cannon states that the rendezvous was by a protostar orbiting the Star Wars Galaxy, not exactly extra galactic travel in the sense you mean.

And higher canon, the actual movie, disagrees with whatever EU licensed product had the protostar claim. In a conflict between the movie and a third-party tie-in book the movie wins, especially when the person whose job is to make decisions on what is and isn't canon has stated that the object in question is the Star Wars galaxy.

And how long did the Yuuzhan Vong take to get to The Star Wars Galaxy?

Don't know, don't care. That dumpster fire is not canon anymore, thank god.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Perigune you are off your rocker man. The defiant flying through enemy formations while dodging incoming fire and doing 360s around enemy ships is not star destroyer manuverability.

The Defiant is the rare exception to the rule, and even the Defiant is pretty slow. It may be a bit more maneuverable than a star destroyer, but it's hardly an impossible target like you want to present it.

Like I said - not even a match for federation ships straight up.

Except in firepower and defense, where the Star Wars ships have orders of magnitude better numbers. The star destroyer can ignore any Federation attacks while it exterminates everything on the planet it is orbiting, while even a single hit from its guns will likely annihilate a Federation warship.

Remember, in the old Star Wars canon we got actual firepower numbers: ~200 gigatons per shot from a Clone Wars era troop transport's main guns. That's ~30 times the entire world's nuclear arsenal, per shot. And before you protest that the old EU is no longer canon, those numbers were based on scaling from on-screen evidence. The current canon number may be somewhat different, but it is not going to be sufficiently off to matter when compared to the high-end official (though not canon) firepower numbers for photon torpedoes at ~64 megatons per shot.

If in the event they were outmatch - they could just utilize warp hit and run attacks.

And do zero damage. Hit and run attacks don't help when the enemy is busy exterminating your entire civilian population. You either stand and fight to the death to stop them (which the Federation can not do, because its weapons and defenses are orders of magnitude weaker than the star destroyers), or you concede total defeat and run away to save your own lives at the cost of the (incredibly tiny) chance of miraculously saving your civilization.

After reading some of your arguments, like how it is a new Galaxy and not a Protostar, I have come to the conclusion that Leeland Chee is probably the worst thing to happen to Star Wars. That is a pretty big achievement, since he is taking the belt from George himself on this. If it is a new Galaxy, why are they not colonising it? Further, if it is a new Galaxy, why are they there when they haven't even explored 90% of the Galaxy they are currently in? They don't need to go to a new Galaxy to hide, most of the one they are in hasn't even been explored yet. It makes no sense and it is an incredible waste of resources for such little gain.

It makes absolutely no sense for it to be a new galaxy and if Leeland Chee is the one who said it was, Leeland Chee is a moron.

Well there are many reasons. First off, hyperspace needs to be mapped to make it "safe" to travel because you might hit something if you make a long range jump into the middle of nowhere(see Han talking to Luke when they are calculating the jump in ANH).

Its entirely likely that the small satellite galaxy the Rebels went to at the end of ESB is mapped out while chunks of the main galaxy are not. The galaxy is big, and while their hyperdrives are capable of traveling from one end to the other quickly, its only if you have charted all the physical space in between for hazards.

Its sort of like a dark room with a bunch of legos strewn about. You could get to the other end of the room in 2 seconds, but you'd end up hurting yourself if you just blindly walked across without using a light of some kind to look for all the lego pieces. In this case, the satellite galaxy was already mapped somewhat, maybe because it was relatively easy. Perhaps the Rebels mapped it with their own hyperspace mappers to provide them some hiding places that aren't on conventional star charts.

And who is to say it isn't being colonized/has been colonized? The Star Wars universe isn't just a single civilization. Its made up of thousands upon thousands of space faring civilizations, both extant and extinct.

 Vulcan wrote:

We still have the Millenium Falcon crossing half a galaxy to find Luke.

It goes from the Unknown Regions to the Outer Rim, both largely undefined areas of the Star Wars Galaxy; specifically so. Also, it's the Falcon, it is a special case.

 Vulcan wrote:

And then coming BACK in less than the 18 hours it takes the Resistance fleet to run out of fuel. While crossing the same distance in Star Trek takes decades, if not centuries.

But the ships in Star Wars can run out of fuel. I'm fairly certain that a Federation ship has never run out of fuel.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Well there are many reasons. First off, hyperspace needs to be mapped to make it "safe" to travel because you might hit something if you make a long range jump into the middle of nowhere(see Han talking to Luke when they are calculating the jump in ANH).

But that isn't "higher cannon" as it isn't in the script from ESB.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Its entirely likely that the small satellite galaxy the Rebels went to at the end of ESB is mapped out while chunks of the main galaxy are not.

The Rishi Maze wasn't mapped out, Obi-Wan couldn't even find it in the Jedi archives, and that actually is a galaxy according to cannon. But a satellite galaxy, which did not canonically host the rebels.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
They make up ion-cannons and missle launchers on ISD when there were never used in a film once from an ISD.

Have missile launchers ever been shown on screen as a major part of a ships armament?

I suppose proton torpedos might count as a missile, but what else?

In Return of the Jedi, the Millennium Falcon is seen firing concussion missiles at the second Death Star's main reactor. Also, in the prequels, Jango Fett's Slave I fires a missile at Obi-wan Kenobi's Jedi Starfighter, and the Vulture Droid starfighters shoot missiles at Anakin and Obi-wan in the space battle in ROTS.

No the Millenium Falcon uses blaster fire to blow up the Death Star.

Slave 1 does fire a missile and so do the vulture droids.

So missiles are seen in the prequels but not in any of the original trilogy.

 dogma wrote:
But that isn't "higher cannon" as it isn't in the script from ESB.

Sigh. I don't know why you keep posting sarcastic comments like this as if they're actually funny. The script for ESB is higher canon when discussing a scene from ESB. It isn't some magic highest canon to the exclusion of all else, or the final source on events in other movies. If something in a different movie contradicted the ESB scene then you'd have a canon conflict and it couldn't be resolved simply by citing the ESB script like when an EU product tries to disagree with ESB. But that canon conflict does not exist. Across all of the Star Wars movies hyperdrive is consistently portrayed as extremely fast, crossing the galaxy in a matter of minutes to hours, days at most. The ESB scene is entirely consistent with this portrayal, and you have no justification for denying it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
No the Millenium Falcon uses blaster fire to blow up the Death Star.

No, they are clearly missiles as consistently described in multiple sources and shown on-screen. Notice how they look nothing like blaster shots:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
After reading some of your arguments, like how it is a new Galaxy and not a Protostar, I have come to the conclusion that Leeland Chee is probably the worst thing to happen to Star Wars.

Why? Because he cited the original creators of ESB instead of a random EU source that you like?

If it is a new Galaxy, why are they not colonising it?

It isn't a new galaxy, it's the Star Wars galaxy seen from a distant perspective. The fleet simply pointed itself out into deep space and ran away, Luke is looking back on where they started.

Falcon is definitely tiring concussion missiles there. As do the A-Wings when knackering the Executor’s Shield generators.

One other thought....the Federation, not using snub fighters, would struggle to take out a Deathstar. Sure, a Runabout could go where the Falcon goes, but wouldn’t handle the trench run at all.

Oh, and we also see the use of Proton Torpedoes to wreck the Deathstar.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Falcon is definitely tiring concussion missiles there. As do the A-Wings when knackering the Executor’s Shield generators.

One other thought....the Federation, not using snub fighters, would struggle to take out a Deathstar. Sure, a Runabout could go where the Falcon goes, but wouldn’t handle the trench run at all.

Oh, and we also see the use of Proton Torpedoes to wreck the Deathstar.

Federation has fighters - they use them in DS9

For more fun lets match the Terran Empire against the Galactic Empire

 Peregrine wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
No the Millenium Falcon uses blaster fire to blow up the Death Star.

No, they are clearly missiles as consistently described in multiple sources and shown on-screen. Notice how they look nothing like blaster shots:

They sound exactly like blaster shots and come from the same place as the millenium falcons blaster shots from every other scene in the film.

Nope. They come from between the front prongs.

To be honest duder, this is the first time I’ve ever seen someone say they were Blaster shots.

Wedge also uses Proton Torpedoes there, fired as a pair.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope. They come from between the front prongs.

To be honest duder, this is the first time I’ve ever seen someone say they were Blaster shots.

Wedge also uses Proton Torpedoes there, fired as a pair.

Through all the battle of Endor, all of the millenium falcons shots come from between the two prongs.

 Peregrine wrote:

The script for ESB is higher canon when discussing a scene from ESB. It isn't some magic highest canon to the exclusion of all else, or the final source on events in other movies.

You're treating it as though it is "highest cannon", excluding the movie itself and all other cannon sources.