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Sheer speed in itself is not necessarily a crucial advantage.

The land speed record car goes faster than a jet fighter, but only in a straight line. If you wanted to drive around Monaco, a formula one car would beat it easily. If you wanted to drive around an English town with lots of winding streets and narrow alleys, a push bike would be the best choice.

The Federation may take a year to get from one side of the galaxy to the other, but they don't need to get to cross the galaxy, they only need to get around the Federation, and their ships are pretty fast at that.

The Empire ships are a lot faster, but they are more difficult to navigate in hyperspace and need to find good routes. They have no local knowledge and their sensor capability is fairly poor.

The speed of Empire ships moving around the Federation may be like flying around Europe in modern times. You can get from anywhere to anywhere in five hours, but it takes at least three hours to get anywhere because of all the pre-flight and post-flight procedures which use a lot of time however short the actual distance.

Just rewatched the Ultimate Computer (TOS) on Netflix. Enterprise vs 4 more Constitution class ships.

All the combat occurs at warp and yes the Enterprise shoots a sublight ship while at Warp.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Sheer speed in itself is not necessarily a crucial advantage.

The land speed record car goes faster than a jet fighter, but only in a straight line. If you wanted to drive around Monaco, a formula one car would beat it easily. If you wanted to drive around an English town with lots of winding streets and narrow alleys, a push bike would be the best choice.

The Federation may take a year to get from one side of the galaxy to the other, but they don't need to get to cross the galaxy, they only need to get around the Federation, and their ships are pretty fast at that.

The Empire ships are a lot faster, but they are more difficult to navigate in hyperspace and need to find good routes. They have no local knowledge and their sensor capability is fairly poor.

The speed of Empire ships moving around the Federation may be like flying around Europe in modern times. You can get from anywhere to anywhere in five hours, but it takes at least three hours to get anywhere because of all the pre-flight and post-flight procedures which use a lot of time however short the actual distance.

The issue is that once the Star Destroyers get somewhere, by the time the Federation sends help the Star Destroyers will be long gone and whoever you were trying to save is dead. The Federation ceases to exist anywhere except on the ships that remain. Their ships are too slow to mount effective responses. All of Star Fleet command will be captured before any federation ships even begin to travel towards earth.

You're assuming that Starfleet Command would be left so indefensible that ISDs could just show up and ace everything. That's a rather ridiculous assumption to make solely to forge a narrative (heh) that is easily disputed.

Which again boils down to The Federations fatal flaw - they never pick the fight.

So indefensible or not, The Empire would have all the time in the world to figure out just how they want to take down the Federation - assuming they don't just usurp it, as Palpatine did The Republic.

Seriously. One is run by well meaning Hippies (and is the sort of society I wish for humanity), the other is run by an insane, all-powerful dictator with a Cult of Personality....

The Empire was unable to reconquer a single rebel planet (Lothal), which shows the Empire' ability to mount offensive operations is gak.

I don't see them mounting an offensive operation on a polity they do not know, in space they do not know and without mapped hyperspace lanes.

 Marmatag wrote:
It has been established that objects traveling at warp speed collide with a ship in star wars and instantly destroy it.

Since photon torpedoes can be fired at warp speeds, they would instantly destroy any Star Wars ship.

EDIT- this was in reference to the picture on the front page. Although, i would actually have to check the mass of a photon torpedo.

Already did the math. .75 light speed when fired from sublight. If fired from warp it will maintain speed. At a minimum the kentic energy alone is 6 Mt. The warhead it's self is like 80+ Gt.

260 kg = torpedo mass + 1.5kg antimater warhead.

The warhead is 3kg because the 1.5kg antimatter also needs 1.5kg matter to react with.

Tyran wrote:
The Empire was unable to reconquer a single rebel planet (Lothal), which shows the Empire' ability to mount offensive operations is gak.

I don't see them mounting an offensive operation on a polity they do not know, in space they do not know and without mapped hyperspace lanes.

Lothal wasn't really a big planet to the Empire and not really a decent use of operations to take back around that time, because one has to remember Lothal was taken very easily when the Empire decided to focus upon it, and they wanted to keep it rather then slag it back to the stone ages.

Also given people's bringing up of ugh Episode 8's breaking of all the hyperspace rules.. What's to prevent the Empire from just basically slapping on hyperdrives to all ships and slamming them full tilt into Federation projects I wonder.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Tyran wrote:
The Empire was unable to reconquer a single rebel planet (Lothal), which shows the Empire' ability to mount offensive operations is gak.

I don't see them mounting an offensive operation on a polity they do not know, in space they do not know and without mapped hyperspace lanes.

Lothal wasn't really a big planet to the Empire and not really a decent use of operations to take back around that time, because one has to remember Lothal was taken very easily when the Empire decided to focus upon it, and they wanted to keep it rather then slag it back to the stone ages.

Also given people's bringing up of ugh Episode 8's breaking of all the hyperspace rules.. What's to prevent the Empire from just basically slapping on hyperdrives to all ships and slamming them full tilt into Federation projects I wonder.

Just going to point out hyperspace does not actually produce momentum. Its an alternate dimension - you do not actually exist in real space when you are in hyperspace. The entire scene - though cool looking - would be impossible.

I know what Star Wars hyperspace does, but given that Episode 8 exists it's somewhat of a canon measure now no matter how much some desire 8 not to be.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Sheer speed in itself is not necessarily a crucial advantage.

The land speed record car goes faster than a jet fighter, but only in a straight line. If you wanted to drive around Monaco, a formula one car would beat it easily. If you wanted to drive around an English town with lots of winding streets and narrow alleys, a push bike would be the best choice.

The Federation may take a year to get from one side of the galaxy to the other, but they don't need to get to cross the galaxy, they only need to get around the Federation, and their ships are pretty fast at that.

The Empire ships are a lot faster, but they are more difficult to navigate in hyperspace and need to find good routes. They have no local knowledge and their sensor capability is fairly poor.

The speed of Empire ships moving around the Federation may be like flying around Europe in modern times. You can get from anywhere to anywhere in five hours, but it takes at least three hours to get anywhere because of all the pre-flight and post-flight procedures which use a lot of time however short the actual distance.

The issue is that once the Star Destroyers get somewhere, by the time the Federation sends help the Star Destroyers will be long gone and whoever you were trying to save is dead. The Federation ceases to exist anywhere except on the ships that remain. Their ships are too slow to mount effective responses. All of Star Fleet command will be captured before any federation ships even begin to travel towards earth.

This assumes the following:

The Empre knows where to find all the Federation bases.
The Empire has already scouted safe hyperspace routes and can jump to them easily.
The Imperial ships can avoid encountering any Federation ships in system, as the Federation cruisers have superior sensors, and are invisble and much faster in warp.
The Empire actually can bombard the Federation bases and planets well enough to destroy them for no purpose, while losing lots of ships.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The warhead is 3kg because the 1.5kg antimatter also needs 1.5kg matter to react with.

Nah, the target provides that.

This is/was one of the arguments as to why most photon torpedo explosions are so small. 'Structural Integrity' force fields repels most of the am away from the hull, meaning that annihilation isn't complete.

This of course completely ignores the matter comprising of the PT hull and engine.

Cheers

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The warhead is 3kg because the 1.5kg antimatter also needs 1.5kg matter to react with.

Nah, the target provides that.

No, the matter/antimatter is explicitly mixed in some special way that we aren't told how it works in order to somehow increase the blast yield, so it doesn't use the target's matter to react with.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I know what Star Wars hyperspace does, but given that Episode 8 exists it's somewhat of a canon measure now no matter how much some desire 8 not to be.

Well - it didn't even destroy Snokes ship. So it's not going to destroy a planet.

I.. Didn't say it would? By Federation projects I mean space stations, ships, maybe land based targets if the need be. If the Federation ships are supposed to be stronger in general strapping hyperspace drives to TIE fighters and firing them off instead as suicide bombers might prove to be more valuable.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Sheer speed in itself is not necessarily a crucial advantage.

The land speed record car goes faster than a jet fighter, but only in a straight line. If you wanted to drive around Monaco, a formula one car would beat it easily. If you wanted to drive around an English town with lots of winding streets and narrow alleys, a push bike would be the best choice.

The Federation may take a year to get from one side of the galaxy to the other, but they don't need to get to cross the galaxy, they only need to get around the Federation, and their ships are pretty fast at that.

The Empire ships are a lot faster, but they are more difficult to navigate in hyperspace and need to find good routes. They have no local knowledge and their sensor capability is fairly poor.

The speed of Empire ships moving around the Federation may be like flying around Europe in modern times. You can get from anywhere to anywhere in five hours, but it takes at least three hours to get anywhere because of all the pre-flight and post-flight procedures which use a lot of time however short the actual distance.

The issue is that once the Star Destroyers get somewhere, by the time the Federation sends help the Star Destroyers will be long gone and whoever you were trying to save is dead. The Federation ceases to exist anywhere except on the ships that remain. Their ships are too slow to mount effective responses. All of Star Fleet command will be captured before any federation ships even begin to travel towards earth.

This assumes the following:

The Empre knows where to find all the Federation bases.
The Empire has already scouted safe hyperspace routes and can jump to them easily.
The Imperial ships can avoid encountering any Federation ships in system, as the Federation cruisers have superior sensors, and are invisble and much faster in warp.
The Empire actually can bombard the Federation bases and planets well enough to destroy them for no purpose, while losing lots of ships.

Easy.

Again, the flaw here is pacifism. Knock about in your ships. Suss out what needs sussing out. It's ok. As long as you don't attack, the Federation will leave you well alone. Because they're Noble Hippies. If it takes a few weeks, it takes a few weeks. If it takes a few years, it takes a few years. But sooner or later, you'll be able to blat them good.

And as previously demonstrated, Turbolasers seem to work on a similar principle to Disruptors. Star Destroyers carry a lot of them. An awful lot. Batteries of them. So wrecking a single, curious Federation ship would be no trouble at all. Spesh as you always get to fire first. And we've also no reason to believe Ion Weapons wouldn't do the same job. Switch off a single ship, and you've got access to the Federation's starcharts. And with said Starcharts, you can start plotting hyperspace. Or simply reverse engineer Warp Drives on an industrial scale. All whilst The Federation sits on its hands out of sheer pacifism.

Sure, they'll eventually notice one of their ships hasn't reported in. But then, Star Trek is littered with examples of shrugged shoulders as to what happened, until the Enterprise turns up.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Sheer speed in itself is not necessarily a crucial advantage.

The land speed record car goes faster than a jet fighter, but only in a straight line. If you wanted to drive around Monaco, a formula one car would beat it easily. If you wanted to drive around an English town with lots of winding streets and narrow alleys, a push bike would be the best choice.

The Federation may take a year to get from one side of the galaxy to the other, but they don't need to get to cross the galaxy, they only need to get around the Federation, and their ships are pretty fast at that.

The Empire ships are a lot faster, but they are more difficult to navigate in hyperspace and need to find good routes. They have no local knowledge and their sensor capability is fairly poor.

The speed of Empire ships moving around the Federation may be like flying around Europe in modern times. You can get from anywhere to anywhere in five hours, but it takes at least three hours to get anywhere because of all the pre-flight and post-flight procedures which use a lot of time however short the actual distance.

The issue is that once the Star Destroyers get somewhere, by the time the Federation sends help the Star Destroyers will be long gone and whoever you were trying to save is dead. The Federation ceases to exist anywhere except on the ships that remain. Their ships are too slow to mount effective responses. All of Star Fleet command will be captured before any federation ships even begin to travel towards earth.

This assumes the following:

The Empre knows where to find all the Federation bases.
The Empire has already scouted safe hyperspace routes and can jump to them easily.
The Imperial ships can avoid encountering any Federation ships in system, as the Federation cruisers have superior sensors, and are invisble and much faster in warp.
The Empire actually can bombard the Federation bases and planets well enough to destroy them for no purpose, while losing lots of ships.

All of those assumptions have to be made for any "X Sci-fi vs Y Sci-fi" comparisons to be made. Both sides are aware of the other's locations. Which does the federation no good since it would take them thousands of years to get any sort of foothold in the Star Wars Galaxy, meanwhile it would take mere months at most for the Empire to get around the Milky Way galaxy. Who cares if the Federation knows where Coruscant is if it would take them thousands of years to get there, and even if they did capture it then what? Its not like Palpatine would care much about losing his capital, he'd be long evacuated by the time anybody arrived there. And when they did they're probably find a few thousand ships waiting for them.

The Federation has an extremely low density of starships. In several episodes, the Enterprise comes back to Earth and there are NO other federation ships there. This means that Earth is routinely left without any ships actively defending it, and there are clearly no defense satellites or ground installations. And certainly no ground troops. Ergo, a fleet of Star Destroyers shows up and there is nothing to prevent them from capturing the planet within hours, or leveling it if they want. Rinse and repeat for most other planets till the survivors get wise and either concentrate their ships in static defensive positions or decide to evacuate everybody and flee. And this is assuming that Star Trek ships are orders of magnitude more combat capable that Star Wars vessels, which has not been demonstrated.

If we go with a more realistic power ratio of Federation combat technology being 2-3 times more powerful than Star Wars equivalent vessels, which is still quite generous to Star Trek, the Empire still rolls over the Federation due to numbers. Because unlike the Rebellion, which used insurgency tactics to weaken the Empire from the inside, the Federation would have to fight the Empire in pitched battles, where sheer numbers would carry the day. Starfleet at most had a few hundred ships at any one time. We know they had very few ships because the first battle with the Borg was a crippling loss, of 40 ships. The Empire had over 25,000 ISDs, thats just one class of ship. We're not talking being out numbered dozens of times over, we're talking about being outnumbered thousands of times over.

And not to mention that Starfleet is quite explicitly not a military organization. They have no practical combat training, nor do they have any of the mental fortitude that an actual large scale war would require. And a few hardliners from Section 31 aren't going to be enough to make up.

I'm pretty sure that Section 31 are about as far away from hippies as you can possibly get.

Also, why do those assumptions "have" to be made? It's an awful lot of assumptions that all just happen to favour the Empire, just like the assumption that Photon Torpedoes only manage 64 megatons of blast yield, that the Federation wouldn't use time travel when its existence is threatened, that Star Destroyer hulls and/or shields stop transporters and so on and so forth ad nauseam.

Are we starting to realize what I meant when I said the conflict would be decided by what assumptions we make yet?

 Grey Templar wrote:

And not to mention that Starfleet is quite explicitly not a military organization. They have no practical combat training,

I'll take "Dominion War" for 500, please.

This is a good point. I would proffer if they had the capacity to effectively first strike most major installations, then they would win hardly, even if most of the Fed fleet is untouched. The Empire could overwhelm "fixed defenses" in that manner.

Dominion War...won by The Prophets.

Alpha Quadrants pants were down, and the ankles were in a firm, but comfortable, grip. Then DEUS EX MACHINA, and jobs a good’un. They defeated the Dominion because that foe had one reliable source of reinforcements. With the Wormhole, the Dominion didn’t need shipyards in the Alpha Quadrant. They had a whole quadrant of production capacity already.

Then that was taken away, and their main shipyard destroyed in the Alpha Quadrant. In yet another DEUS EX MACHINA move.

The Empire just needs to do what The Federation won’t - kick off a smallish War. Come to the aid of beleaguered systems. Win over the populace. Make The Federation look weak. Create dissent. I mean, look at how nearly successful The Maquis were...

The Prophets intervening wasn't a Deus Ex Machina. They were a well-established part of the show's continuity by the time "Sacrifice of Angels" took place. The Dominion flew straight into a hornet's nest and paid the price. A Deus ex Machina would have been someone like Q showing up despite having only been in the first episode and hand-waving the Dominion out of existence.

This is a legitimate question here.

Hyperdrives in starwars have limited fuel supply - they probably have enough power to cross their entire galaxy on a single tank but intergalactic travel involves much greater distances.

Could the empire even reach the milky way.

The closest (legit size) galaxy to the milky way is 2.7 million light years away. Compared to the diameter of the milky way 180,000 ly - we are looking at about 15x the distance as your standard outer rim to outer rim trek across the starwars galaxy (assuming the starwars galaxy is of similar size the milky way). Plus - the locale of the starwars galaxy is stated to be "far far away" so I am going to assume this means - compared to other galaxies compared to our own.


Is there any starwars canon of imperial ships going to another galaxy?

All the speed in the world is meaningless if you don't have the gas to get there.

 Xenomancers wrote:
This is a legitimate question here.

Hyperdrives in starwars have limited fuel supply - they probably have enough power to cross their entire galaxy on a single tank but intergalactic travel involves much greater distances.

Could the empire even reach the milky way.

The closest (legit size) galaxy to the milky way is 2.7 million light years away. Compared to the diameter of the milky way 180,000 ly - we are looking at about 15x the distance as your standard outer rim to outer rim trek across the starwars galaxy (assuming the starwars galaxy is of similar size the milky way). Plus - the locale of the starwars galaxy is stated to be "far far away" so I am going to assume this means - compared to other galaxies compared to our own.


Is there any starwars canon of imperial ships going to another galaxy?

All the speed in the world is meaningless if you don't have the gas to get there.

Same question for the Trek ships...

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
This is a legitimate question here.

Hyperdrives in starwars have limited fuel supply - they probably have enough power to cross their entire galaxy on a single tank but intergalactic travel involves much greater distances.

Could the empire even reach the milky way.

The closest (legit size) galaxy to the milky way is 2.7 million light years away. Compared to the diameter of the milky way 180,000 ly - we are looking at about 15x the distance as your standard outer rim to outer rim trek across the starwars galaxy (assuming the starwars galaxy is of similar size the milky way). Plus - the locale of the starwars galaxy is stated to be "far far away" so I am going to assume this means - compared to other galaxies compared to our own.


Is there any starwars canon of imperial ships going to another galaxy?

All the speed in the world is meaningless if you don't have the gas to get there.

Same question for the Trek ships...

Well - the last episode latest in the time line comes from voyager - which returned through a transwarp conduit and with some transwarp tech. Transwarp is essentially instant teleportation to any place at any time in history (at leasts that is how it is described in voyager) reasonable to assume the the federation scientist can reverse engineer that tech.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
This is a legitimate question here.

Hyperdrives in starwars have limited fuel supply - they probably have enough power to cross their entire galaxy on a single tank but intergalactic travel involves much greater distances.

Could the empire even reach the milky way.

The closest (legit size) galaxy to the milky way is 2.7 million light years away. Compared to the diameter of the milky way 180,000 ly - we are looking at about 15x the distance as your standard outer rim to outer rim trek across the starwars galaxy (assuming the starwars galaxy is of similar size the milky way). Plus - the locale of the starwars galaxy is stated to be "far far away" so I am going to assume this means - compared to other galaxies compared to our own.


Is there any starwars canon of imperial ships going to another galaxy?

All the speed in the world is meaningless if you don't have the gas to get there.

Same question for the Trek ships...

Well - the last episode latest in the time line comes from voyager - which returned through a transwarp conduit and with some transwarp tech. Transwarp is essentially instant teleportation to any place at any time in history (at leasts that is how it is described in voyager) reasonable to assume the the federation scientist can reverse engineer that tech.

Well if that is reasonable, then we’ll assume the Empire has dozens of Eclipse class SSDs.

 Grey Templar wrote:
That transport had not jumped to light speed yet. It just hit at sublight speeds.

Yeah, I just re-watched it a few minutes ago and was going to correct that. Thanks for reminding me!

Of course, that would have been a perfect moment for a hyperspace ram, don't you think? "We're gonna die anyway, so..." (yank the hyperdrive levers...)

The Holdo Maneuver really is a mess. It creates more problems than it solves. It's best just to ignore DisneyWars entirely when talking about Star Wars starship tactics and battles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Sheer speed in itself is not necessarily a crucial advantage.

The land speed record car goes faster than a jet fighter, but only in a straight line. If you wanted to drive around Monaco, a formula one car would beat it easily. If you wanted to drive around an English town with lots of winding streets and narrow alleys, a push bike would be the best choice.

The Federation may take a year to get from one side of the galaxy to the other, but they don't need to get to cross the galaxy, they only need to get around the Federation, and their ships are pretty fast at that.

The Empire ships are a lot faster, but they are more difficult to navigate in hyperspace and need to find good routes. They have no local knowledge and their sensor capability is fairly poor.

The speed of Empire ships moving around the Federation may be like flying around Europe in modern times. You can get from anywhere to anywhere in five hours, but it takes at least three hours to get anywhere because of all the pre-flight and post-flight procedures which use a lot of time however short the actual distance.

True, but if it takes Starfleet a week to get a ship there to oppose them, does it really matter if it took them two extra hours for 'procedures'?

And never underestimate the Empire's recon ability. In ESB they probed over 100 systems remotely in less than a day (assuming each of the two dozen star destroyers in Vader's fleet deployed five or six probe droids each). How many probe droids do you think a large freighter could carry to do pre-attack recon? A couple thousand? More for a bulk freighter? And Starfleet would never stoop to attacking an unarmed and empty ship in time of peace...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The warhead is 3kg because the 1.5kg antimatter also needs 1.5kg matter to react with.

Or you could just set it up to use some of the mass of the torpedo itself....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I.. Didn't say it would? By Federation projects I mean space stations, ships, maybe land based targets if the need be. If the Federation ships are supposed to be stronger in general strapping hyperspace drives to TIE fighters and firing them off instead as suicide bombers might prove to be more valuable.

Or use probe droids, which come with hyperdrives built in.

Eeek! Now that freighter with a couple thousand probe droids just became the Empire's capability to destroy Starfleet without losing a single ship!

Still think we should use Episode VIII's broken canon?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
This is a legitimate question here.

Hyperdrives in starwars have limited fuel supply - they probably have enough power to cross their entire galaxy on a single tank but intergalactic travel involves much greater distances.

Could the empire even reach the milky way.

The closest (legit size) galaxy to the milky way is 2.7 million light years away. Compared to the diameter of the milky way 180,000 ly - we are looking at about 15x the distance as your standard outer rim to outer rim trek across the starwars galaxy (assuming the starwars galaxy is of similar size the milky way). Plus - the locale of the starwars galaxy is stated to be "far far away" so I am going to assume this means - compared to other galaxies compared to our own.


Is there any starwars canon of imperial ships going to another galaxy?

All the speed in the world is meaningless if you don't have the gas to get there.

Freighters are a thing. And the Clone Wars shows that you can load canisters of fuel for transport. So... the Empire brings along a few dozen, or even a few thousand, freighters carrying fuel along with a couple full of probe droids. No big deal for a fleet that has tens of thousands of combat ships. Heck, they might well have hundreds of specialized fuel transports, or develop them just for the attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Well - the last episode latest in the time line comes from voyager - which returned through a transwarp conduit and with some transwarp tech. Transwarp is essentially instant teleportation to any place at any time in history (at leasts that is how it is described in voyager) reasonable to assume the the federation scientist can reverse engineer that tech.

Given some of the deus ex machina that Star Trek has technobabbled into existence, you can always argue that Star Trek wins by deus ex machina every time.

It doesn't tell you anything meaningful about the actual balance of power in a straight military conflict, though. All it tells you is what I said earlier. The Imperal Fleet gives Starfleet quite the drubbing until the Name Ship of the series arrives and technobabbles a win. Not a very compelling story, though.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Plus - the locale of the starwars galaxy is stated to be "far far away" so I am going to assume this means - compared to other galaxies compared to our own.

Yeah, but like, there's times when my TV remote is just over there, slightly beyond my fingertips, and that's Far Far Away.

A lot of people are forgetting the Federation's well-documented and proven ability to reverse engineer new technology in an hour (45 minutes when you take out commercials).

So that's how long the Empire has the advantage of FTL mobility

Ah ah ah! Geordi La Forge's ability to reverse engineer tech in 45 minutes Or B'Elanna. Or O'Brien, depending on which show you're watching.

Everyone else in Star Trek? They're incompetent. Every time they find another Federation ship adrift, it's not far off

'So what happened, Relevant Chief Engineer'
'Well Captain, it appears they found this alien Toaster. And then all took turns shoving their John Thomas' in it, and switching it on'
'When you say all of them?'
'All the crew, Captain. Even the women. Seems they actually replicated diddlers for the women, just so they could shove them in the alien Toaster'
'Weirdos'