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 lolman1c wrote:
I agree. I was actually excited when I learned the Index would be like £15. Then I remember going in store and asking to buy the marine codex like a mo th later and choking on my shock to hear it was double the price!

It's also interesting to know they could and have charged £15 for rule books but continue not to. Also, their prices confuse the hell out of me. £30 for marine codex that doesn't have much more than other stuff that ost £25. And the price of the digital books also cost £25 (which is a shock because digital work comes with literally no production costs). Yet, after doing some AoS research, most of their books are about £15-20 and hardback. If prices were similar there wouldn't be much complaints but the almost random pricing highlights something.

They used to be that much. Back in the day of softcover codices, which also made them a lot easier to carry with you. But GW got greedy and went to hardcover for everything, bumping the cost by something like 60% overnight.

Given that most the other gaming systems I play more or less have free rules and hardcopys are optional buy ins for convenience / fluff I'm still a little surprised 'nu' GW is largely sticking to print rules that without fail get errata multiple time, CA is a major slam to the danglys as its maybe 1/3 of a White Dwarf worth of content for 4 times the cost

The quality of the hardcover Codexes is excellent, as is the quality of their miniatures. Charging top dollar is fine, but for that you do expect the rules to last the whole edition (perhaps with a few minor tweaks). Rendering Codices and WYSIWYG armies obsolete mid-edition doesn't fit with that pricing model.

Well, most of the CA stuff I don't mind paying for, but I think points changes should be free.

I think they need free "points cost" pdfs online, like printable sheets for each faction that have all the points on them.

Don't the points changes reflect some of the new rules though?

Books are all FAQ'd up weeks after release. Too many "opps tee-hee" rules "mistakes".

Why bother buying "current rules" knowing they will be "oops fixed" a few weeks later after sales go flat on the "oops teehee op'd mistake"

How many months did it take for hive tyrants sales to go flat?

With all this tomfoolery, GW have reduced the value of thier printed rules to approximately £0.00.

Pancakey wrote:
GW have reduced the value of thier printed rules to approximately £0.00.

For casual players the other way of looking at it is to keep using the original rules and not bother with the updates...

I'll pay for new editions, and the codices I need.

I'd prefer to not pay for rules at all.

I won't pay for fixes, updates, and tweaks. New content depends on how good, useful, or if it should have been included in the base book.

 deathwinguk wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
GW have reduced the value of thier printed rules to approximately £0.00.

For casual players the other way of looking at it is to keep using the original rules and not bother with the updates...

You will need to start and epic journey to "house rule" all the "mistakes" that they didnt "notice". Before release.

 lolman1c wrote:
Isn't the AoS app like 0.99p a month or something? Hell that's £12 a year I would gladly pay! Freaking hell, I'd probably still buy the codex as well for my main army!

Yea. I still pay for it even though i'm not playing AoS right now, because I want them to keep working at it.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Isn't the AoS app like 0.99p a month or something? Hell that's £12 a year I would gladly pay! Freaking hell, I'd probably still buy the codex as well for my main army!

Yea. I still pay for it even though i'm not playing AoS right now, because I want them to keep working at it.

I'm thinking about getting into the game later this year. So what do you get with the app? Is it basically a whole free rule book and codices for only £12 a year? Because that sounds too goo to be true from GW.

 deathwinguk wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
GW have reduced the value of thier printed rules to approximately £0.00.

For casual players the other way of looking at it is to keep using the original rules and not bother with the updates...

As causal player, you buy the old books for cheap second hand to get the fluff and play with the index

I begrudgingly pay. If they put something out that's wrong then it should be a simple and free fix. If you pay for every little thing they put out then they have a very efficient way of milking money out of you. I'd rather spend my money on minis and paint, at least that's something tangible I then own and has value. Plus I can enjoy them. So short of major updates like edition changes or a hardback codex I prefer to avoid paying. In my group of like 10 players, 2 of us have a rule book. 1 has a chapter approved. So since I have one of the BRBs I just ask my friend with the CA If I can check stuff in there and vice versa. I'd rather the rules were free, but that's unlikely to ever happen.

 kodos wrote:

 deathwinguk wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
GW have reduced the value of thier printed rules to approximately £0.00.

For casual players the other way of looking at it is to keep using the original rules and not bother with the updates...

As causal player, you buy the old books for cheap second hand to get the fluff and play with the index

I have never heard of anyone doing this.
If you're a casual player you get the new rules and use the FAQ just like anyone. But your opponents don't throw a hissy-fit if you forget something had been FAQ'd

 Sim-Life wrote:

I have never heard of anyone doing this.
If you're a casual player you get the new rules and use the FAQ just like anyone. But your opponents don't throw a hissy-fit if you forget something had been FAQ'd

I know several groups who do it just like that until everyone has a Codex
As causal gamer what reason is there to buy a Codex when an Index with the free point adjustments and FAQ's is enough to play especially when others in your group don't have gotten their Codex yet.

Of course there is the advantage for WAAC but than the others in your group won't play with you at all

 Sim-Life wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 deathwinguk wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
GW have reduced the value of thier printed rules to approximately £0.00.

For casual players the other way of looking at it is to keep using the original rules and not bother with the updates...

As causal player, you buy the old books for cheap second hand to get the fluff and play with the index

I have never heard of anyone doing this.
If you're a casual player you get the new rules and use the FAQ just like anyone. But your opponents don't throw a hissy-fit if you forget something had been FAQ'd

Yes that's what I meant - casual players could decide not to bother with updates to the rules in CA. FAQ and errata relate to the existing rules they have of course.

Of some relevance is the fact that a group really only needs 1 instance of CA and the BRB between it's members.

 lolman1c wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Isn't the AoS app like 0.99p a month or something? Hell that's £12 a year I would gladly pay! Freaking hell, I'd probably still buy the codex as well for my main army!

Yea. I still pay for it even though i'm not playing AoS right now, because I want them to keep working at it.

I'm thinking about getting into the game later this year. So what do you get with the app? Is it basically a whole free rule book and codices for only £12 a year? Because that sounds too goo to be true from GW.

Well, the unit scrolls and an army builder. You don't get all the army traits and such, but those are pretty straightforward.

 lolman1c wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Isn't the AoS app like 0.99p a month or something? Hell that's £12 a year I would gladly pay! Freaking hell, I'd probably still buy the codex as well for my main army!

Yea. I still pay for it even though i'm not playing AoS right now, because I want them to keep working at it.

I'm thinking about getting into the game later this year. So what do you get with the app? Is it basically a whole free rule book and codices for only £12 a year? Because that sounds too goo to be true from GW.

I’m not up to date on it, but yes, basically. You are still missing a few rules related to the army, but you get updated warscrolls all in one place. I assumed GW would take this to the next logical step with 40k and implement a more easily digestible living ruleset, but instead they’ve actually doubled down on how they’ve always done their rules, nd continue to release expensive, nearly worthless hardcover books for an ever expanding and splintering array of forces. Hard to understand.

I would pay A LOT to get orks as point-efficient as top teir armies.

I guess my money is safe.

 JimOnMars wrote:
I would pay A LOT to get orks as point-efficient as top teir armies.

I guess my money is safe.

The Ork Boy is one of the most point-efficient units in the entire game.

It's just everything else that's a problem.

 Fafnir wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
I would pay A LOT to get orks as point-efficient as top teir armies.

I guess my money is safe.

The Ork Boy is one of the most point-efficient units in the entire game.

It's just everything else that's a problem.

Well, no. A list of 150+ boyz is counter-meta to elite armies, but against almost everything else in 8th, most of them are just 6 point wound counters.

I like the concept of CA and of campaign books. It's a little frustrating that the 8th. edition codizes are pretty weak concerning the fluff (i.e. 90% are copy/paste from 7th. ed and prior).
But if GW comes out with campaign books again that feature factions I play I'd buy those. Wrath of magnus was pretty cool, scenarios are always nice and the best part about 40K.

I remember from my collection of older 90s and early 2000s my 40k "expansions" and I do have to say it was a lot better than modern 40k. They had entire narrative campaigns you could fight in with extra data sheets for new characters specific to that campaign.

As I'm not thrilled with 8th edition I'm not willing to buy any rules for it.

I came to the realisation that Games Workshop operates on a subscription principle. Rather than having a monthly subscription, you have a yearly / bi-yearly subscription where you pay for a 'new' codex or rulebook to be able to play.

If you allow your 'subscription' to lax (ie: don't buy the latest codex or edition), you're cast out of the kingdom. You can play locally with friends at home but you can't rejoin the main game until you re-sub.

I'm very much in the camp of casual play and only occasionally buy a codex / edition rule set. The longer-term style of 'pay to play' doesn't appeal to me and so I've ended up playing games produced by other designers who have a different business model.

The codices and rules will never be complete for GW. They will always have deliberate inbalances that require a 'new' update that will apparently address some issues while adding others. It's how they justify the gaming tax.

If a team of 8 scientists can work out the interactions for a proteomic pathway that involves thousands of interactions between huge populations of proteins within five years... surely GW can balance a fraction of the variables within 25+ with the teams it has had.... well, assuming they wanted to in the first place.

What's worse is I'm a Historian so I see some of the laziness and what we're paying for. Inlove to read old GW books and much of their "new" rules and fixes are just rehashed older rules. Also I have an idea if how old 40k is. And I have done a joke map where I prove we are closer to actually making the mars cult in the same amount of time GW has tried to balance 40k.

However, what you said about older editions players being kicked out is 100% true and annoys me the most as a Historian. I would love to play 2nd, 3rd, ect editions for historical reasons but it's almost impossible if nobody in your area even knows what 40k was until the last few years.

To use computer game analogy, I'm fine with paying for "expansions", but "patches" should be free. The CA has those two mixed up and I do not approve of that.

I don't understand why GW doesn't adopt a living rule book format, which would be a digital version that is continually updated to reflect rule changes. Upon buying a physical book, you would receive a registration code, and having registered your book, you would have access to the digital "living rule book". This sort of thing is easy to adopt, especially since the digital books already exist.

 Peregrine wrote:
No, I am not happy and I handle it by not buying GW's rules. If I'm going to pay money for something I expect it to be close to perfect, and for any minor flaws that slip through to be fixed for free. GW fails to meet this standard. Over and over again they publish trash and then expect even more money to fix it. No thanks.

And no, I don't read the "fluff" in my codex. It's a stripped-down version of previous codices, and has nothing to offer. If that's what GW is going to sink to then I'd rather have cheaper rules-only codices as an option.

This.

 Zingraff wrote:
To use computer game analogy, I'm fine with paying for "expansions", but "patches" should be free. The CA has those two mixed up and I do not approve of that.

I don't understand why GW doesn't adopt a living rule book format, which would be a digital version that is continually updated to reflect rule changes. Upon buying a physical book, you would receive a registration code, and having registered your book, you would have access to the digital "living rule book". This sort of thing is easy to adopt, especially since the digital books already exist.

They don't adopt it because they don't understand it they are still stuck in the 90's.

They are like your elderly parents buying tech then looking at you to set it up, they have a vague idea how it should work but no clue how to implement it.