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We usually "invest" in a game with it's own maintained rule set so we can go to a FLGS and play pickup games with a stranger and hope some measure of similarity of army power is kept.
In agreeing to a mutual rule set, Forge World and regular Games Workshop models are treated on an equal footing as "legal".
Now it is every player's right to decide they do not want to play for whatever reason.
Refusing to play a Forge World model is like looking at your opponent's army, thinking you might lose and refusing to play... oh, wait, people do that as well.

Personally, my own decision would be:
- Ask if they have the rules for that unit with them, ask to see them.
- Thank them very much and play with the comment "I have not played against that before OR only a couple times and figure it will be fun to have a go.".
- At the very least you can try to get bragging rights for taking something different down.
- That is a pretty tall order for that beast, lascannons aplenty really needed, and a storm cannon array will cave face pretty good all with 2+ to hit.

There is the odd case that some unit is rock to your scissors and you will have to decide if you are up for a challenge... because ANY gaming is good right?

In memoriam of this thread, I ordered my Age of Darkness rulebook and 3 Minotaur Artillery Tanks, just so I can show these pleb scrubs how overpowered forgeworld really is.

Tremble in fear before the Minotaur Artillery Tank and it's brokenly OP Forge World rules.

I expect all tournaments to surrender their prize money to me before the day is out, lest my Minotaur Artillery Tanks start destroying all the major tournaments in the Western hemisphere.

I eagerly await your response, TOs.

Minotaurs are cool, but seriously since the removal of templates they kinda suck.
Actiually they even sucked in 7th, even with the added abilitiy of "the Purge" formation.
Come to think of it, you could still use it as a driving bunker, you payed extra for.
Anyways, has anybody found the supposed 2 Heavybolters it has? I sure as hell haven't^^

Yeah, sorry kids. Forge World is legal. You don't have to play someone using FW models if you don't want. I promise, as someone with a bit of FW in his army- for every one person that wants to treat a game with FW models like we're about to have sex for the first time without a condom and talk our way through it, I can find a dozen people who are comfortable looking at my book and allowing it.

By the same logic that you can't allow FW models, you can disallow a hundred other things. It starts to seem less like being fair, and more like someone trying to dictate what someone else brings to the table.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Minotaurs are cool, but seriously since the removal of templates they kinda suck.

(That's the joke.)

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Minotaurs are cool, but seriously since the removal of templates they kinda suck.

(That's the joke.)

I know, however i will name it the thing with the 2 missing heavy bolters.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Minotaurs are cool, but seriously since the removal of templates they kinda suck.

(That's the joke.)

I know, however i will name it the thing with the 2 missing heavy bolters.

Having ordered 3, I will tell you where the heavy bolters are. After looking at the pictures, it's quite clear they're attached to the two unicorns who ride in the cabin.

Indeed, i will pay my respects torwards your enemies, which will tremble by the sheer amount of points you have wais... err i mean wisely spent oh greatest of warlords.

(3 basilisks in pts and output of 2 in on tank for those non r&h players)

Not Online!!! wrote:
Indeed, i will pay my respects torwards your enemies, which will tremble by the sheer amount of points you have wais... err i mean wisely spent oh greatest of warlords.

(3 basilisks in pts and output of 2 in on tank for those non r&h players)

NOW NOW

Forge World is OP, remember? My Minotaur Artillery Tanks will prove unstoppable on the battlefield just from sheer Forge-Worldiness. It's like a special rule or something.
"Made By Forge World: Despite being overpriced, and lacking the firepower to justify their cost, Minotaur Artillery Tanks are WAAC TFG tanks only taken by the most hardcore players in pursuit of skilless victory!"

Wow, guys. I didn't think things would get so heated. Look, I'll be honest, I'm a fluff player. I like to theme stuff and come up with a background for each individual force. I can see why a person might object to facing a wall of super heavies in a pick up game. Or three dakka Leviathan. Or three Stormravens. I wouldn't but I can see why someone might.

I just felt objecting to a single FW model in 2000pts of bog standard, non-optimised marines was a bit odd. But, like I said, I dropped the Leviathan. He dropped a Carnifex and a few other bits and bobs and we played out a very pleasant game.

Oh, yeah, in response to someone further back, can't remember who, the reason my army was limited in scope is that I was travelling and brought stuff that'd fit in carry on luggage. All the rest of the stuff was actually robust enough that I wasn't worried about it. It was the Leviathan that had my heart in my mouth but it was the Leviathan that added a bit of spark and colour to an otherwise pretty bland collection.

1126. Be sure to post about games using your minotaurs. Im curious to see how they are.

Im happy that the FW super heavy rules have been updated. Id like to use my Preator Launcher. But it is supposed to be an awesome MLRS that still needs LoS. And gets 2D6 number of shots.....Meh.

That vs the Banehammer. Ill take the banehammer.

 rhinoceraids wrote:
1126. Be sure to post about games using your minotaurs. Im curious to see how they are.

Im happy that the FW super heavy rules have been updated. Id like to use my Preator Launcher. But it is supposed to be an awesome MLRS that still needs LoS. And gets 2D6 number of shots.....Meh.

That vs the Banehammer. Ill take the banehammer.

Ironically, the Praetor, Minotaur, and Valdors all missed out on the update, so they can still overwatch infinite times but also cannot move and fire without the penalty (lol). But I will keep you updated!

Lol I hope the OP learned a lesson. While I may show up to events I never go to local gaming stores for pick up games and consequently I never go to them to purchase anything. Unless it's a scheduled event I plan on attending I never travel with my army. The gas, space in my vehicle and my time has been better served by bringing my golf clubs and checking out local golf courses. Warhammer game itself is terribly designed and only fun with friends.

 zedsdead wrote:
what the hell makes a 300+ point Dread OP ?

It's pretty tough and it can have some awesome guns that OP didn't take.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Indeed, i will pay my respects torwards your enemies, which will tremble by the sheer amount of points you have wais... err i mean wisely spent oh greatest of warlords.

(3 basilisks in pts and output of 2 in on tank for those non r&h players)

NOW NOW

Forge World is OP, remember? My Minotaur Artillery Tanks will prove unstoppable on the battlefield just from sheer Forge-Worldiness. It's like a special rule or something.
"Made By Forge World: Despite being overpriced, and lacking the firepower to justify their cost, Minotaur Artillery Tanks are WAAC TFG tanks only taken by the most hardcore players in pursuit of skilless victory!"

Hopefully you will wrap them with the most sophisticated troop possible: The double prized worthless grot in human form, aka the Militia squad, or maybee grots themselves, alas we are supposed to be able to take everything.

HMint wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

HMint wrote:
Well, it is hard for people to get to that conclusion by themselves.
GW certainly isn't helping it, by not having the models, or literature on display and not mentioning FW anywhere in their own literature.

I am not sure what the reason is for this, but apparently GW wants to have that distinction in place.
Maybe it is time for some GW driven FW advertising?

The updates on FW models appear in GWs chapter approved and their FaQs. GW does advertize FW on their community side, on their FB pages and in the White dwarf, literally in all their PR channels.

Typically for online multiplayer games, the percentage of players that take part in online forums such as this one and visit official websites and community pages are in the minority. Most players seem to just play the game as they aquired it.
So I am guessing this is even more so the case for 40k?

I mean... the only way I got to know the FW rules is by aquiring those books from.. shady sources. Obviously not everyone does evil things like that.
And they won't buy the rules unless there is a reason dor them to do so. Isn't that kind of a problem?
If you want to know if a certain GW army suits you, you can walk into any GW store, read through their open codizes (all stores I went to had a few of those), look at the models on display, talk to the store-guys...
That venue does not exist for FW, so I don't find it very surprising that a lot of players aren't familiar with their lineup.

Sorry but in times of battlescribe this sounds like a pretty poor excuse. I consider the FW index rules to be simpler than GW army rules, they don't have relics, artefacts, stratagems, warlord traits, they're most of the time just some slightly changed variant of an existing GW unit. Also the FW indizes are the same price as the GW indizes. I'll give you that you have to order them directly and FW's shipping is very 20th century. I never understood why they don't sell FW in their GWs, but probably it would rise FW sales to a volume they can't handle

Sgt. Cortez wrote:


I never understood why they don't sell FW in their GWs, but probably it would rise FW sales to a volume they can't handle

Yep, you have it exactly right.

The resin casting process they use just isn't compatible with mass production. They quite literally make nearly everything to order, and it's far more labour intensive than GW's plastic kits. They'd need to expand their team exponentially to be able to keep any kind of reasonable stock levels in their retail locations (and likely, the molds would give out in short order!)

If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.

You should have played but stipulated that you also get to veto one of his units.

Asmodios wrote:
If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.

Actually it is very different to that. Unpainted miniatures and proxies aren't explicitly allowed by the rules, so banning them is just convention.

FW models are explicitly allowed in the game. There is no reason to treat them as being in the same category as unpainted miniatures. Banning FW is less akin to banning unpainted miniatures and more akin to banning Codex: Chaos Space Marines, because you're taking a clear and obvious part of the game, explicitly allowed by the rules, and banning it.

You can see why banning Codex: Chaos Space Marines might come as a surprise and be seen as unreasonable.

If someone does not want to play vs my forgeworld stuff , I will first take a look at their army, and if its reasonable then I will use a list that excludes FW. But if they are running something hard then its a pass. Its lame to ban minis when you are running a competitive list. FW is perfectly legal, as legal as the SM codex.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:
what the hell makes a 300+ point Dread OP ?

It's pretty tough and it can have some awesome guns that OP didn't take.

If it has twin storm cannons its easily disabled. Charge it from 9" away, avoiding its heavy flamers. If you can surround it it cant fallback. It has only two attacks at S8 AP0 D1. Tie it up in CC until the game is over. If you cant surround it you have at least disabled its shooting for one turn. Unless its ultramarines, then it can still shoot after falling back, with -1.

Asmodios wrote:
If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.

Yeah, it's not fine. Not really.

It simply isn't fair to expect anyone to play anything but by the rules of 40K in a public setting. Now, if you want to change up the rules in a private setting - have at it. Otherwise you simply don't get to fundamentally alter the game either by addition or omission because you don't like something and expect to be seen as behaving reasonably.

This is seeming more and more like nothing other than a case of people wanting to stack the game in their favour by clutching at a tired excuse they think will allow them to dictate what their opponent can field.
If you really have an issue with certain FW units, the correct place to try and change them is via GW or FW. Until that happens, play privately with others of a like mind, or accept things as they are in public and play.

The rules are the rules. There is no debate to be had.

 p5freak wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:
what the hell makes a 300+ point Dread OP ?

It's pretty tough and it can have some awesome guns that OP didn't take.

If it has twin storm cannons its easily disabled. Charge it from 9" away, avoiding its heavy flamers. If you can surround it it cant fallback. It has only two attacks at S8 AP0 D1. Tie it up in CC until the game is over. If you cant surround it you have at least disabled its shooting for one turn. Unless its ultramarines, then it can still shoot after falling back, with -1.

OP had a siege claw and a drill.

StrayIight wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.

Yeah, it's not fine. Not really.

It simply isn't fair to expect anyone to play anything but by the rules of 40K in a public setting. Now, if you want to change up the rules in a private setting - have at it. Otherwise you simply don't get to fundamentally alter the game either by addition or omission because you don't like something and expect to be seen as behaving reasonably.

This is seeming more and more like nothing other than a case of people wanting to stack the game in their favour by clutching at a tired excuse they think will allow them to dictate what their opponent can field.
If you really have an issue with certain FW units, the correct place to try and change them is via GW or FW. Until that happens, play privately with others of a like mind, or accept things as they are in public and play.

The rules are the rules. There is no debate to be had.

Yup, you're right it's not fine to let people choose how they want to play..... If someone refuses to play me in the future or they try to play by any sort of non GW official ruling or house rule I will physically beat them
Its the logical thing to do

Dodged a bullet there, mate. Just saying.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.

Actually it is very different to that. Unpainted miniatures and proxies aren't explicitly allowed by the rules, so banning them is just convention.

FW models are explicitly allowed in the game. There is no reason to treat them as being in the same category as unpainted miniatures. Banning FW is less akin to banning unpainted miniatures and more akin to banning Codex: Chaos Space Marines, because you're taking a clear and obvious part of the game, explicitly allowed by the rules, and banning it.

You can see why banning Codex: Chaos Space Marines might come as a surprise and be seen as unreasonable.

No what I cant see is the idea that its ok to force someone to play a pickup game they don't want. If I played chaos and some guy said "sorry I don't play chaos" i wouldn't play him. If you feel strongly about FW products and someone won't let you use it..... then don't play them. People who feel entitled that every person has to play this game exactly like they do amazes me. Ive seen everything from people that wont play FW to those who won't play certain book missions or malstorm. Everyone can choose what they will or wont play/play against and you cant force them to play no matter how much you stomp your feet

No one is saying they should be "forced" to play the game or we'll break their kneecaps or something.

We're saying they're being unreasonable. I would also say someone who bans Codex: Chaos Space Marines is being unreasonable as well. They're allowed to, and I'm not going to advocate violence or coercion as the alternative. But that doesn't mean I can't make fun of the person for being hilariously misinformed or condemn them for being disingenuous or comment negatively that they're being unreasonable.

tneva82 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Sadly that’s that person prerogative as silly as it is.

That being said Lolviathans are beasts and well worth the points with dakka ones for raven guard and dark angels being the best by far.

Not silly actually. Why should anybody be forced to do something he doesn't enjoy? Are we living in a free country or north korea?

Your funny

FW units should not be used. feth those CSM players using them Contemptors. Suck it up and be loyalist then you can get exactly the same unit in your nice official codex.