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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 18:27:23
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Hard-Wired Sentinel Pilot
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Asmodios wrote:
Here I went and looked one up. It was post like this saying that it's "Not Fine" to turn down games.
That isn't what is being said at all.
Go back a few posts and read the explanation I posted. People are reacting to comments without reading them thoroughly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 18:29:21
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Asmodios wrote:"Yeah, it's not fine. Not really.
It simply isn't fair to expect anyone to play anything but by the rules of 40K in a public setting. Now, if you want to change up the rules in a private setting - have at it. Otherwise you simply don't get to fundamentally alter the game either by addition or omission because you don't like something and expect to be seen as behaving reasonably."
Here I went and looked one up. It was post like this saying that it's "Not Fine" to turn down games.
He could have perhaps said "it's not fine to turn down a game for these reasons" (which, reading the third sentence, is obviously intended). And that's what people in the thread are telling you. No one can force you to play, but they can call your reasoning bad, or your reasoning "not fine", or silly, or ignorant, or whatever.
What I presume this person meant is "it's not fine to turn down a game for the reasons relevant to this thread."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 18:30:08
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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The Hammer of Witches
A new day, a new time zone.
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Adeptus Doritos wrote:Thread Challenge:
Can anyone show me any real reason why Forge World models shouldn't be allowed?
/thread.
The funny thing is, I'm working on a leviathan right now that I picked up at Adepticon because it is a cool ass model. If anyone gets in a twist about it, I'd just shrug and switch to my B-list where it's a Redemptor. I just really have no feths to give to anyone choosing to be a ninny, and would rather get a game in then deal with them being butt hurt.
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"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 18:35:15
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Asmodios wrote:Person 1: Wanna play a game
Person 2: Sure I only play game type x if you wanna play with me
Person 1: Yeah Sure/ No Thanks
What you are advocating for in this thread
Person 1: Wanna play a game
Person 2: Sure i only play game type x if you wanna play with me
Person 1: WTF you cant play game type x and you have to play me in game mode y........ YOU HAVE TO PLAY ME REEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
No-one's suggesting anything like the bottom, certainly not at that level of outrage. That's hyperbolic and you know it.
The issue I think people are having is that it's somehow expected that FW isn't the norm. Yeah, sure, you can, and probably should, organise the game beforehand, but I'm sure most people have been caught in a pickup game and not had time to say "I'm playing XYZ". And frankly, why should Forge World be part of those things you announce? Should I also announce every unit you're taking as well then? Why is Forge World the thing I need to declare?
That's the real crux of the issue. Declining games? Fine, you do you. No-one can force you to play. However, the WHY you're declining the game is an issue, because that can frequently be misguided and ignorant.
Think of it as sitting on a bus, with only one seat spare. The seat is next to another person, who, for the sake of this argument, is an ethnic minority, or LGBT, or some external thing they could be targeted for. You don't have to sit next to them, you can always stand, but they WHY you don't sit with them is the real issue. You simply might not want to sit, or feel socially awkward, or any various innocent thing - but you could also be racist, homophobic, or another malicious -ist.
In essence, that's what this Forge World argument is about. You can always decline a game, but WHY are you declining it?
Forge World's OP? No more than normal GW stuff.
Don't know the rules? They're just as accessible as GW ones.
Forge World's elitist and expensive? What, just for one unit? Yeah, sure.
Frankly, there's hardly any rational and well-supported evidential argument that FW is any different to GW proper.
Sure, you can turn it down, like any person or game or unit. That doesn't mean that you're exempt from critique.
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They/them
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 18:37:30
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I think Forgeworld should be just as accept as any GW plastic product. They are entirely legit models with totally legit rules and are absolutely legal. Denying something just because it is FW is silly nonsense. However I totally support denying games you don't want to play. I think denying a game because of a FW model because its FW is silly, but denying the game because that FW model is stupidly OP is a perfectly fine reason. I have denied plenty of games when people sit down 3 models in a 2k game. I'm just not interested in that kind of game and should not be expected to play something I do not want to.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/08 18:37:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 19:03:02
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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Decimators are now a unit that needs to be dropped to tone down lists? Really? Especially at 40pts over a Dread thats already arguably rather expensive for what it offers? Not exactly what I would consider power gaming there
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 19:22:54
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Vaktathi wrote:Decimators are now a unit that needs to be dropped to tone down lists? Really? Especially at 40pts over a Dread thats already arguably rather expensive for what it offers? Not exactly what I would consider power gaming there 
You simply can´t argue with people with a rigid opinion. "Perception is reality" to them and no amount of evidence or insightful reasoning will change that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 19:38:14
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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techsoldaten wrote: Adeptus Doritos wrote:Thread Challenge:
Can anyone show me any real reason why Forge World models shouldn't be allowed?
And when you show me this specific reason, I'd like to see that Games Workshop's standard line of models and rules doesn't do exactly the same damned thing.
Also, "The store can't sell it so..." doesn't count, because the store can't sell a good chunk of the conversion bits or even the older and perfectly legal models myself and many others use.
Well, it's funny you mention that. I was thinking about what FW models I own that could trigger someone to not want to play.
For 40 points more than a well-equipped Helbrute, I can get a Decimator with Dual Soulburner Petards that cause mortal wounds on each hit (i.e. no wound rolls, no saves.) My Helbrute loadout is usually a Scourge and Twin lascannons, for comparison.
I use 2 of these fellows when I want to clear those weak Custodes lists off the board. They do up to 2D6 damage each and probably average 7 MW per turn. I'm often charging them up behind a Cultist screen, which just falls back when it's time to wreck face. So even if the Decimator doesn't kill what it hit, it's not going to be charged.
My Hellforged Scorpius' are similar, I park 3 of them in a corner next to Abaddon for 6D3 S6 -2 D2 shots each, rerolling to hit. Since they are capable of indirect fire, I'm often in a position where opponents can't shoot back at them.
There is no Codex equivalent for the Scorpius. They are only slightly more expensive than my laspreds for roughly 3 times the amount of damage per turn. When I play the Scorpius' and the Decimators together, I go into each game with the feeling I have a good chance to table an opponent. They are just that good.
There are other good units like this in the FW line, at least for Chaos. Any definition I've ever been given of ' OP' left me disappointed, I think it really just means more people complain about a certain unit on average than others. I don't see characterizations like this as a justification for banning a unit from the game.
But when opponents have asked me to tone down my lists, they are usually talking about these units. I recognize everyone needs to enjoy the game they play, and have no problem with tailoring my list to a level everyone is comfortable with.
ok let's see
Decimator suicide bomber build eh?
The soulburner Petard is assult 2d3 each hit does a mortal wound, however, each hit roll of a 1 deals a mortalwound to it's wielder, that can happen only once per weaponshooting (multiple 1 in one roll do still only 1 mortal round to the decimator firing it) on average 8 shots per firing phase, 2/3 hit and he loses statistically a hitpoint per firing phase. So you will deal around 6 mortal wounds at the cost of one of your own wounds (7) for 150pts if i did my math correct.
Secondly, the petard is only 24 " maximum firing range. A Decimator allways hits on 3+, it does not matter if it is damaged. The rest of the Decimator body is more along the line of a bigger dread, so meh.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 19:50:24
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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StrayIight wrote:Asmodios wrote:
Here I went and looked one up. It was post like this saying that it's "Not Fine" to turn down games.
That isn't what is being said at all.
Go back a few posts and read the explanation I posted. People are reacting to comments without reading them thoroughly.
“If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.”
That was the post I posted that was responded to with “that’s not fine”. Not sure how I’m supposed to read that other the it’s “not fine” to “refuse a game for whatever reason”. No big deal if there was a misunderstanding but hopefully you can see how it came off as people thinking that people were saying it’s not ok to refuse a game and thus you have to play games even if you don’t want to
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 19:54:16
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Asmodios wrote:StrayIight wrote:Asmodios wrote:
Here I went and looked one up. It was post like this saying that it's "Not Fine" to turn down games.
That isn't what is being said at all.
Go back a few posts and read the explanation I posted. People are reacting to comments without reading them thoroughly.
“If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.”
That was the post I posted that was responded to with “that’s not fine”. Not sure how I’m supposed to read that other the it’s “not fine” to “refuse a game for whatever reason”. No big deal if there was a misunderstanding but hopefully you can see how it came off as people thinking that people were saying it’s not ok to refuse a game and thus you have to play games even if you don’t want to
I mean, it's not fine to refuse a game for whatever reason, that's the point.
It's not fine to refuse a game because your opponent is a gay man and you're a homophobe.
It's not fine to refuse a game because your opponent is black and you're racist.
There are some reasons when it's "not fine" to refuse a game, and for some people, it's not fine to refuse a game for idiotic and arbitrary reasons. No one is saying you can't, but you can't expect to just wave it off as 'fine' when it's clearly not fine.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 19:57:03
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Unit1126PLL wrote:Asmodios wrote:StrayIight wrote:Asmodios wrote:
Here I went and looked one up. It was post like this saying that it's "Not Fine" to turn down games.
That isn't what is being said at all.
Go back a few posts and read the explanation I posted. People are reacting to comments without reading them thoroughly.
“If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.”
That was the post I posted that was responded to with “that’s not fine”. Not sure how I’m supposed to read that other the it’s “not fine” to “refuse a game for whatever reason”. No big deal if there was a misunderstanding but hopefully you can see how it came off as people thinking that people were saying it’s not ok to refuse a game and thus you have to play games even if you don’t want to
I mean, it's not fine to refuse a game for whatever reason, that's the point.
It's not fine to refuse a game because your opponent is a gay man and you're a homophobe.
It's not fine to refuse a game because your opponent is black and you're racist.
There are some reasons when it's "not fine" to refuse a game, and for some people, it's not fine to refuse a game for idiotic and arbitrary reasons. No one is saying you can't, but you can't expect to just wave it off as 'fine' when it's clearly not fine.
I'll agree with this, though I'd say comparing FW bias to homophobia or racism is a little much. FW bias makes a certain hobby less fun. Homophobia and racism can make you lose jobs, get attacked, get killed...
They're similar in theme, it's a matter of scale that's different.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 20:04:42
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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JNAProductions wrote:I'll agree with this, though I'd say comparing FW bias to homophobia or racism is a little much. FW bias makes a certain hobby less fun. Homophobia and racism can make you lose jobs, get attacked, get killed... They're similar in theme, it's a matter of scale that's different.
Yes, right, of course they're not even in the same league. I was picking something very obviously not fine so that the opposing debater couldn't reasonably worm out of it with " but of course that is just fine" without addressing the actual point. The point being, of course: "While you certainly can turn down any game you wish for any reason you wish, that does not protect your reasons from scrutiny, nor does it mean everyone automatically has to be fine with possibly flawed, ignorant, irrational, selfish, unreasonable, or outright bigoted reasons."
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/08 20:05:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 20:07:32
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Well said, Unit.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 20:14:59
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Hard-Wired Sentinel Pilot
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Asmodios wrote:StrayIight wrote:Asmodios wrote: Here I went and looked one up. It was post like this saying that it's "Not Fine" to turn down games. That isn't what is being said at all. Go back a few posts and read the explanation I posted. People are reacting to comments without reading them thoroughly.
“If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.” That was the post I posted that was responded to with “that’s not fine”. Not sure how I’m supposed to read that other the it’s “not fine” to “refuse a game for whatever reason”. No big deal if there was a misunderstanding but hopefully you can see how it came off as people thinking that people were saying it’s not ok to refuse a game and thus you have to play games even if you don’t want to Yeah, fair enough Asmodios - I can see how what I was trying to communicate could be misread. I have to hold my hand up and say it was worded badly. If you look through my other posts, I've been very clear to state that yes of course you do have the right to refuse a game. But I don't believe it's always fair or reasonable to exercise that right. In this case, I should have been clearer. I wasn't saying 'it's not fine to refuse a game', but that 'it's not fine (fine here meaning polite, socially acceptable within the situation, etc) to refuse a game for just any random reason'. You of course can, no one can stop you, but if your reasons are petty or in any way mean spirited or can be seen as unreasonable, people generally aren't going to be 'fine' with it? They may say nothing, they may wish you well, but you'll have left them with a negative impression that will stick. Is that clearer?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/08 20:18:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 20:55:34
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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So i guess to conclude the consensus is that :
1. Yes you can deny a match because of FW units.
2. It is however a very impolite thing to do if you PUG and then basically pull a 180 degree turn and equal to the idea that you would deny any Match f.e. against IG.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 21:06:58
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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[img] Unit1126PLL wrote:Asmodios wrote:StrayIight wrote:Asmodios wrote:
Here I went and looked one up. It was post like this saying that it's "Not Fine" to turn down games.
That isn't what is being said at all.
Go back a few posts and read the explanation I posted. People are reacting to comments without reading them thoroughly.
“If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.”
That was the post I posted that was responded to with “that’s not fine”. Not sure how I’m supposed to read that other the it’s “not fine” to “refuse a game for whatever reason”. No big deal if there was a misunderstanding but hopefully you can see how it came off as people thinking that people were saying it’s not ok to refuse a game and thus you have to play games even if you don’t want to
I mean, it's not fine to refuse a game for whatever reason, that's the point.
It's not fine to refuse a game because your opponent is a gay man and you're a homophobe.
It's not fine to refuse a game because your opponent is black and you're racist.
There are some reasons when it's "not fine" to refuse a game, and for some people, it's not fine to refuse a game for idiotic and arbitrary reasons. No one is saying you can't, but you can't expect to just wave it off as 'fine' when it's clearly not fine.
Hahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
Wow if this isn’t the most over the top post I have ever seen... we are talking on a wargaming forum about a war game and about reasons to turn down a game that are hobby related and now people are jumping the shark and talking about racial discrimination.... I’m done that’s enough Dakka for the day
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/08 21:07:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 21:10:21
Subject: Re:Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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"That's weird. This thread got to 8 pages. Let's see what is going on...."
"Oh. On, no."
*walks back out*
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 21:13:04
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Unit1126PLL wrote: JNAProductions wrote:I'll agree with this, though I'd say comparing FW bias to homophobia or racism is a little much. FW bias makes a certain hobby less fun. Homophobia and racism can make you lose jobs, get attacked, get killed...
They're similar in theme, it's a matter of scale that's different.
Yes, right, of course they're not even in the same league. I was picking something very obviously not fine so that the opposing debater couldn't reasonably worm out of it with " but of course that is just fine" without addressing the actual point.
The point being, of course:
"While you certainly can turn down any game you wish for any reason you wish, that does not protect your reasons from scrutiny, nor does it mean everyone automatically has to be fine with possibly flawed, ignorant, irrational, selfish, unreasonable, or outright bigoted reasons."
Exactly as I said above.
You can turn down whatever you want to. It doesn't mean that your decision to do isn't horrifically misguided, and as such, above scrutiny and complaint.
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They/them
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 21:18:58
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Hard-Wired Sentinel Pilot
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Asmodios wrote:[img] Unit1126PLL wrote:Asmodios wrote:StrayIight wrote:Asmodios wrote:
Here I went and looked one up. It was post like this saying that it's "Not Fine" to turn down games.
That isn't what is being said at all.
Go back a few posts and read the explanation I posted. People are reacting to comments without reading them thoroughly.
“If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.”
That was the post I posted that was responded to with “that’s not fine”. Not sure how I’m supposed to read that other the it’s “not fine” to “refuse a game for whatever reason”. No big deal if there was a misunderstanding but hopefully you can see how it came off as people thinking that people were saying it’s not ok to refuse a game and thus you have to play games even if you don’t want to
I mean, it's not fine to refuse a game for whatever reason, that's the point.
It's not fine to refuse a game because your opponent is a gay man and you're a homophobe.
It's not fine to refuse a game because your opponent is black and you're racist.
There are some reasons when it's "not fine" to refuse a game, and for some people, it's not fine to refuse a game for idiotic and arbitrary reasons. No one is saying you can't, but you can't expect to just wave it off as 'fine' when it's clearly not fine.
Hahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
Wow if this isn’t the most over the top post I have ever seen... we are talking on a wargaming forum about a war game and about reasons to turn down a game that are hobby related and now people are jumping the shark and talking about racial discrimination.... I’m done that’s enough Dakka for the day
Please, go back and read through the parts of the thread you clearly skipped so you can react in context while we all groan inwardly. :/
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 21:22:47
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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StrayIight wrote:Asmodios wrote:[img] Unit1126PLL wrote:Asmodios wrote:StrayIight wrote:Asmodios wrote:
Here I went and looked one up. It was post like this saying that it's "Not Fine" to turn down games.
That isn't what is being said at all.
Go back a few posts and read the explanation I posted. People are reacting to comments without reading them thoroughly.
“If people want to refuse a game for whatever reason is fine. It would have been nice for him to let you know before you showed up for the game at the store but it might be common in the area he's in and he assumed you wouldn't bring FW. It's no different IMO then saying "I don't play against unpainted miniatures, we don't allow proxies, we play first-floor ruins block LOS, ect" Most areas or tournaments have slightly different ways of playing so it's just best to adapt like you did and get a game in.”
That was the post I posted that was responded to with “that’s not fine”. Not sure how I’m supposed to read that other the it’s “not fine” to “refuse a game for whatever reason”. No big deal if there was a misunderstanding but hopefully you can see how it came off as people thinking that people were saying it’s not ok to refuse a game and thus you have to play games even if you don’t want to
I mean, it's not fine to refuse a game for whatever reason, that's the point.
It's not fine to refuse a game because your opponent is a gay man and you're a homophobe.
It's not fine to refuse a game because your opponent is black and you're racist.
There are some reasons when it's "not fine" to refuse a game, and for some people, it's not fine to refuse a game for idiotic and arbitrary reasons. No one is saying you can't, but you can't expect to just wave it off as 'fine' when it's clearly not fine.
Hahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
Wow if this isn’t the most over the top post I have ever seen... we are talking on a wargaming forum about a war game and about reasons to turn down a game that are hobby related and now people are jumping the shark and talking about racial discrimination.... I’m done that’s enough Dakka for the day
Please, go back and read through the parts of the thread you clearly skipped so you can react in context while we all groan inwardly. :/
I read all the parts I see where you're pulling it from, doesn't mean it's not the most over the top post I've ever seen on Dakka (and that's saying something) have fun in the thread I'm out, this was just too much.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 21:28:18
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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Strg Alt wrote: Vaktathi wrote:Decimators are now a unit that needs to be dropped to tone down lists? Really? Especially at 40pts over a Dread thats already arguably rather expensive for what it offers? Not exactly what I would consider power gaming there 
You simply can´t argue with people with a rigid opinion. "Perception is reality" to them and no amount of evidence or insightful reasoning will change that.
Yep. The point is not that Decimators are overpowered.
A unit that doesn't need to roll to wound is a big deal to some people. Someone else can look at it entirely differently.
OP is a meaningless term, it really only refers to someone's emotions. It's a feeling that drives someone to decide not to want to play with you, getting all moral about how someone feels is silly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 21:37:40
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Not Online!!! wrote:So i guess to conclude the consensus is that :
1. Yes you can deny a match because of FW units.
2. It is however a very impolite thing to do if you PUG and then basically pull a 180 degree turn and equal to the idea that you would deny any Match f.e. against IG.
I can't believe this has gone on for 8 pages, but I think the above quote sums it up. That was sort of what I was thinking, myself. I mean this was a store in a large, cosmopolitan European city, not a shack in the Outback. I presume FW was available and familiar to most hobbyists.
I agree that you are perfectly within your rights to turn down a game. However your reasons need to be, well, reasonable. Otherwise you can expect flak. I'm glad that the community, well dakka anyway, don't consider FW as anything other than legit and official.
I also don't see any problem with having a chat with someone before a game and talking through lists. I don't even see a problem with altering them or, as one poster seems to favour, playing small 'raid' scenarios.
I think the aim of the game is to win, but the point of it is to have fun.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 21:47:11
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Actually i just play for fun, i go in a match with the hopes that heroic stuff happens, my dudes pull their weight and my marauders run off at t3 because Heinrich forgot how his parachute works and the whole squad fails at the "in it for the Money" throw, therefore running off with only one loss.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 21:50:23
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Posts with Authority
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Dakka is a place where you can be accused of hating women because you don't like the idea of Female Space Marines or get accused of being a baby-killing monster because you own a gun... but make an analogy to forms of opinion and ignorance in regards to Forge World models and suddenly that's too much.
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Mob Rule is not a rule. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 21:53:15
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Adeptus Doritos wrote:Dakka is a place where you can be accused of hating women because you don't like the idea of Female Space Marines or get accused of being a baby-killing monster because you own a gun... but make an analogy to forms of opinion and ignorance in regards to Forge World models and suddenly that's too much.
Seriously, that happens? For owning a gun? I mean that would literally make every swiss person on here a potential babykiller.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 21:56:15
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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War Walker Pilot with Withering Fire
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Not Online!!! wrote: Adeptus Doritos wrote:Dakka is a place where you can be accused of hating women because you don't like the idea of Female Space Marines or get accused of being a baby-killing monster because you own a gun... but make an analogy to forms of opinion and ignorance in regards to Forge World models and suddenly that's too much.
Seriously, that happens? For owning a gun? I mean that would literally make every swiss person on here a potential babykiller. Welcome to the internet, which is the place where dakkadakka lives. Luckily, it's still better than the YouTube comments section...though often it's the other way around (with pro-conservative points being idiotically parroted). For example, if memory serves, the vast number of responses to the female Space Marine sections were, "We don't mind women, but we also like to respect the lore with respect to all of the factions. Bring on some badass women in their own right, though!"
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/08 21:58:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 22:01:01
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Well i guess it goes both ways, mostly because it is completely polarized in many cases of that discussion.
Problem is because of that we are unable to form compromise or rational decisions and therefore the problem goes on unsolved.
As for YouTube, it really depends on the channel i guess and the clientele it has, kinda like all social media which sorts and recommends via allgorithm. Automatically Appended Next Post: HuskyWarhammer wrote:Not Online!!! wrote: Adeptus Doritos wrote:Dakka is a place where you can be accused of hating women because you don't like the idea of Female Space Marines or get accused of being a baby-killing monster because you own a gun... but make an analogy to forms of opinion and ignorance in regards to Forge World models and suddenly that's too much.
Seriously, that happens? For owning a gun? I mean that would literally make every swiss person on here a potential babykiller.
Welcome to the internet, which is the place where dakkadakka lives. Luckily, it's still better than the YouTube comments section...though often it's the other way around (with pro-conservative points being idiotically parroted). For example, if memory serves, the vast number of responses to the female Space Marine sections were, "We don't mind women, but we also like to respect the lore with respect to all of the factions. Bring on some badass women in their own right, though!"
Sob? I mean there is also this whole badass insane chaos Legion that is made up of trans dudes (Slaneesh has a wierd sense of humor)
I actually would love to see a female Kit for guard. And in regards to fluff i belive the empire does not care, aslong as it can fight it gets recruited.
So basically the demmand for female space marines is kinda pointless.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/08 22:04:42
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 22:06:52
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Posts with Authority
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Not Online!!! wrote:Seriously, that happens? For owning a gun? I mean that would literally make every Swiss person on here a potential babykiller.
I tolerate you Swiss because you have decent chocolate and I've had one of your little pocketknives since I was a kid (not the same one, but I always have one around because Gerber Multi-tools are a bit too big and hefty for my pocket).
Otherwise?
You're too quiet.
I got my eye on you.
Anyway, to the OP's situation- I have to say one thing I learned many years ago.
In my experience the guy in the FLGS that's always really, really eager for a game with a new person is usually the store idiot, or at least the guy who has some serious social hang-ups and quirks.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/08 22:09:02
Mob Rule is not a rule. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 22:08:32
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Ironically, the guys calling anti-FW players “manchilds” are truly the manchilds themselves. FW FEEDS the manchilds, by giving them the choice to field the biggest, baddest unkillable unit, then completely disregard victory points, instead aiming solely at annihilation. Their opponent, fielding a balanced list, quickly realizes that about 40% of their list that is dedicated anti-infantry and/or melee effectively can only be used to capture objectives when facing this warhound titan scout (or similar). So, if there’s enough terrain on the board for him to avoid combat for 6 turns, he wins. Was it fun? No, it was BORING as hell. Was it fun for the FW manchild? YES! Killing models is much more fun than scoring victory points, if forced to only pick one, as in this instance basically.
FW makes this possible. I’ve played games like these, and even though im winning, i completely tune out due to boredom. Better to boycut FW than argue about what amount of FW is ok/fun/balanced.
And to the manchilds: the existance of underpowered FW models means NOTHING in this regard, and only your wife cares about how much money you wasted. The ideal game is balanced and determined on the battlefield - FW gives room for too much upscaling. And i agree there’s a bad trend of GW slowly upscaling as well.
PS: i still play against FW models, but i recognize that the game would be more fun without them. No one i play against field anything but the OP stuff.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/08 22:10:17
Subject: Game turned down because of a single Leviathan
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Adeptus Doritos wrote:Not Online!!! wrote:Seriously, that happens? For owning a gun? I mean that would literally make every Swiss person on here a potential babykiller.
I tolerate you Swiss because you have decent chocolate and I've had one of your little pocketknives since I was a kid (not the same one, but I always have one around because Gerber Multi-tools are a bit too big and hefty for my pocket).
Otherwise?
You're too quiet.
I got my eye on you.
Actually we are only quiet because internally you have 23 Mini states /nations of diffrent ethnicity constantly rambling debating and shouting at each other.
Don't forget Confederatio helvetia not federation.
Jokes aside we as a state and people generally have other things to do. Automatically Appended Next Post: Northern85Star wrote:Ironically, the guys calling anti- FW players “manchilds” are truly the manchilds themselves. FW FEEDS the manchilds, by giving them the choice to field the biggest, baddest unkillable unit, then completely disregard victory points, instead aiming solely at annihilation. Their opponent, fielding a balanced list, quickly realizes that about 40% of their list that is dedicated anti-infantry and/or melee effectively can only be used to capture objectives when facing this warhound titan scout (or similar). So, if there’s enough terrain on the board for him to avoid combat for 6 turns, he wins. Was it fun? No, it was BORING as hell. Was it fun for the FW manchild? YES! Killing models is much more fun than scoring victory points, if forced to only pick one, as in this instance basically.
FW makes this possible. I’ve played games like these, and even though im winning, i completely tune out due to boredom. Better to boycut FW than argue about what amount of FW is ok/fun/balanced.
And to the manchilds: the existance of underpowered FW models means NOTHING in this regard, and only your wife cares about how much money you wasted. The ideal game is balanced and determined on the battlefield - FW gives room for too much upscaling. And i agree there’s a bad trend of GW slowly upscaling as well.
PS: i still play against FW models, but i recognize that the game would be more fun without them. No one i play against field anything but the OP stuff.
So because you played against that guy, which anyways will field Op and unfun units you decide again to throw all fw armies and players under the Bus?
I answered all of your points politely somewhere on page 2-3 so go read up, maybee you will rethink that statement.
If not idc.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/08 22:14:00
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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