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auticus wrote:
My prediction is that due to the cost of buying the box, tournaments will not have this be a part of tournament play, which means that like all GW expansions since the dawn of time, getting people to play these will be difficult.

I really doubt that cost will factor into what tournaments think. If that was the case then FW wouldn't be allowed at so many 40k tournaments.

Honestly the biggest reason I could see for not including these spells is that a lot of people simply aren't familiar with AoS. So if AoS 2.0 gets people in in droves then these spells might be too much for them to take in all at once.

I think it will be heavily influenced by the 'spell meta' as in, how exploitable are the spell rules. If they are relatively well balanced I can see them included while if they create problem builds (along the lines of what the vortex does now) I can see them just dropped outright.

Skimask Mohawk wrote:Malign Sorcery is $120 CAD? It better fething not be core rules at that cost

Where do you get that price at? Is that with taxes included? I thought Malign Sorcery was costed as a starter set which would be $100. $120 would make it more about $135 taxes included then.

I don't think the cost will stop the spells being used at tournaments. If one of the spells turns out to be particularly nasty at what it does, then I can image army's turning up at tournaments with multiple copies of it.

The GW community page confirmed that its priced the same as a starter set, so considering that it comes with a lot of models and also a rule book that's a very fair price. And very acceptable to add a new layer to the game.

I think GW wants to push this update on players and it makes sense as it lets them make more models to sell to players, but now they are spells not just warriors on the tabletop. These might come in the form of bulking up future wizard releases (buy Kaine and his personal arsenal of magical spells including an everlasting fireball and his hovering war-disk) and in the form of magical packs for realms/magic schools/factions/alliances.

Davor wrote:

Skimask Mohawk wrote:Malign Sorcery is $120 CAD? It better fething not be core rules at that cost

Where do you get that price at? Is that with taxes included? I thought Malign Sorcery was costed as a starter set which would be $100. $120 would make it more about $135 taxes included then.

Yea I employed a bit of hyperbole lol. It's 113 after taxes.

I guess my point is that of they're doing away with the four pages of free rules in favour of the core book, which is going to cost something like 70$ if the 40k rulebook is anything to go by, plus malignant sorcery, plus GHB the total cost for matched play out of the gate is around 190$ before taxes. Just for the rules, on release .

While I have nothing against the spells aside from being sour about having to put the double turn back in the game if I'm going to use them, Id rather just pay 90ish before taxes than almost 200

 Skimask Mohawk wrote:

Davor wrote:

Skimask Mohawk wrote:Malign Sorcery is $120 CAD? It better fething not be core rules at that cost

Where do you get that price at? Is that with taxes included? I thought Malign Sorcery was costed as a starter set which would be $100. $120 would make it more about $135 taxes included then.

Yea I employed a bit of hyperbole lol. It's 113 after taxes.

I guess my point is that of they're doing away with the four pages of free rules in favour of the core book, which is going to cost something like 70$ if the 40k rulebook is anything to go by, plus malignant sorcery, plus GHB the total cost for matched play out of the gate is around 190$ before taxes. Just for the rules, on release .

Except they're releasing the core rules, again, as a free download. It's gone from 4 to over 10 pages though. You just don't get the fluff and scenarios that are in the big book.

While I have nothing against the spells aside from being sour about having to put the double turn back in the game if I'm going to use them, Id rather just pay 90ish before taxes than almost 200

Then subsidize the cost of Malign Sorcery. Find spells in it you don't want and sell them on.

I’ve been out of the loop of a while. What date is the new edition due out?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I’ve been out of the loop of a while. What date is the new edition due out?

June 30th.

Preorders go up on June 16th(this Saturday). Two week preorder period.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Skimask Mohawk wrote:

Davor wrote:

Skimask Mohawk wrote:Malign Sorcery is $120 CAD? It better fething not be core rules at that cost

Where do you get that price at? Is that with taxes included? I thought Malign Sorcery was costed as a starter set which would be $100. $120 would make it more about $135 taxes included then.

Yea I employed a bit of hyperbole lol. It's 113 after taxes.

I guess my point is that of they're doing away with the four pages of free rules in favour of the core book, which is going to cost something like 70$ if the 40k rulebook is anything to go by, plus malignant sorcery, plus GHB the total cost for matched play out of the gate is around 190$ before taxes. Just for the rules, on release .

Except they're releasing the core rules, again, as a free download. It's gone from 4 to over 10 pages though. You just don't get the fluff and scenarios that are in the big book.

While I have nothing against the spells aside from being sour about having to put the double turn back in the game if I'm going to use them, Id rather just pay 90ish before taxes than almost 200

Then subsidize the cost of Malign Sorcery. Find spells in it you don't want and sell them on.

That's great if true; I remember saying I hoped it was still the case but I must have missed where they said it.

There's definitely a better chance of buying the spells now. Still not pleased about having to reimplement the double turn, but you know.

The way I'm looking at Malign Sorcery:
Malign Portents is $25 by itself.
The spells would easily be $15 each, at least.

That comes out to $205 just for those. I'm considering doing a bit of trading around to ensure I have multiples of some that I plan on using several of (if we can do that).

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm considering doing a bit of trading around to ensure I have multiples of some that I plan on using several of (if we can do that).

I really hope we can, if not that's fine but some of them just look great (honestly I think the swinging pendulum scythe is my favourite - I'd love to see two or three of those sweeping over the battlefield!)

The trick will be which ones are OP. Those will be the ones you'll start seeing a bunch of custom made pieces to spam. (assuming you can just cast a bunch of the same one, which if it can break the game I'd assume the answer is yes you can)

 Overread wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm considering doing a bit of trading around to ensure I have multiples of some that I plan on using several of (if we can do that).

I really hope we can, if not that's fine but some of them just look great (honestly I think the swinging pendulum scythe is my favourite - I'd love to see two or three of those sweeping over the battlefield!)

I'm leaning towards several Gravetides for my Mor'phann. Feels thematically acceptable that the skury Death Realm Sea Aelves would summon up skury tides of dooooom.

My Wanderers...I haven't quite decided on a Realm for them to hail from yet. Same with Vanguard(and the mage chap they'll be seconded riding a Gryph-Charger)

Skimask Mohawk wrote:

Davor wrote:

Skimask Mohawk wrote:Malign Sorcery is $120 CAD? It better fething not be core rules at that cost

Where do you get that price at? Is that with taxes included? I thought Malign Sorcery was costed as a starter set which would be $100. $120 would make it more about $135 taxes included then.

Yea I employed a bit of hyperbole lol. It's 113 after taxes.

I guess my point is that of they're doing away with the four pages of free rules in favour of the core book, which is going to cost something like 70$ if the 40k rulebook is anything to go by, plus malignant sorcery, plus GHB the total cost for matched play out of the gate is around 190$ before taxes. Just for the rules, on release .

While I have nothing against the spells aside from being sour about having to put the double turn back in the game if I'm going to use them, Id rather just pay 90ish before taxes than almost 200

Gotcha.

I hope the rules are free. I just lost my job, depression kicking in again and seeing all these goodness just a bit upsetting I can't buy any of it. I am hoping this starter set isn't limited time and I will be able to get it by the end of the year.

Preview: The Core Book on Warhammer Community.

auticus wrote:
The trick will be which ones are OP. Those will be the ones you'll start seeing a bunch of custom made pieces to spam. (assuming you can just cast a bunch of the same one, which if it can break the game I'd assume the answer is yes you can)

Well unless they change the Rules of One, you'll only be able to cast one turn turn. The question is will you be able to cast a second copy of the same Endless Spell while the other is still active?

The one difference though is you are paying points for these spells allegedly. Would a rule of one apply if you are paying points for them?

Maybe, maybe not. At its core, it's still a spell, though. When you summoned a unit in 1.0, you used points for it. Didn't mean you could summon the same unit again without spending points. I guess we won't know for sure until we have the book in our hands, though.

On a side note, I'm still not sure what part of the Endless Spells people are considering to be "optional". You pay points for the spell. You use the spell.

 EnTyme wrote:

On a side note, I'm still not sure what part of the Endless Spells people are considering to be "optional". You pay points for the spell. You use the spell.

The optional part I assume is that the whole spell expansion in itself is optional. Ergo you can have a 2.0 game without any of those spells on either side; indeed it would b expected to say "lets have a game oh and lets have the spell expansion" to your opponent (unless it gets to a point where its inclusion is the default state for your game area of course).

Or at least were not sure if it's apocalypse level optional or closer to the intent of death from the skies

 EnTyme wrote:

On a side note, I'm still not sure what part of the Endless Spells people are considering to be "optional". You pay points for the spell. You use the spell.

Much like forgeworld being optional to a lot of people. You pay points for forgeworld models too, but some people won't let you use it in games. Or 40k apocalypse when it was optional. You paid points for super heavies but it was optional.

People see endless spells as equally optional. A lot of people don't want to buy additional rules period, and at the same time don't want their opponent to do so either to have "an advantage". So basically its "play AOS, but no endless spells". If tournaments allow Endless Spells, they won't have much footing to stand on and will go along with it because they'll have to if they want to play in tournaments. If tournaments ban endless spells... it'll be something people fight over in forums for the next several years.

Note that Malign Sorcery contains more than the endless spells. It also contains 84 magical items and the 'Spells of the Realms' that they'll be missing out in if they decide not to use Malign Sorcery in its entirety.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/11/11th-june-preview-the-core-bookgw-homepage-post-1/

Seems like the spells, artefacts, and command abilities are in the core rules.

Then is Malign sorcery a copy of this, or is it just endless spells?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/05/soul-wars-announced/

Inside the Malign Sorcery box, you’ll find the full Malign Sorcery supplement – your guide to magic in the Mortal Realms. This book takes a closer look at magical lore in the Age of Sigmar, and the arcane materials that accumulate in each realm, such as Aetherquartz and Cyclestone. There are pages of spectacular new art and background depicting the unbound living magic rampant across each of the realms. You’ll even find painting guides for many of the endless spells, to help you get them ready for your own games.

There’s MORE. Seriously, even without the endless spells this would be a pretty hefty supplement. Skirmish on the Realm’s Edge lets you fight battles with a handful of models in some of the Mortal Realms’ most unstable landscapes as they hunt and bind wild spells for coin and renown. You can even expand your games to Path to Glory, as your warband grows into a fully fledged army gathering new spells to its cause.

For larger games, meanwhile, this book contains no fewer than 84(!) magical items that you’ll be able to use in any game, allowing you to customise your Heroes more than ever before, while the Spells of the Realms add a whole lore’s worth of magic to each of the Mortal Realms, building on the rules already found in the Core Book.

There’s even a set of Pitched Battle profiles, giving you the points you need to use your endless spells in matched play, while two Malign Sorcery battleplans aimed at matched play have a chance of showing up in any of your games where both players bring endless spells.

auticus wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

On a side note, I'm still not sure what part of the Endless Spells people are considering to be "optional". You pay points for the spell. You use the spell.

Much like forgeworld being optional to a lot of people. You pay points for forgeworld models too, but some people won't let you use it in games. Or 40k apocalypse when it was optional. You paid points for super heavies but it was optional.

People see endless spells as equally optional. A lot of people don't want to buy additional rules period, and at the same time don't want their opponent to do so either to have "an advantage". So basically its "play AOS, but no endless spells". If tournaments allow Endless Spells, they won't have much footing to stand on and will go along with it because they'll have to if they want to play in tournaments. If tournaments ban endless spells... it'll be something people fight over in forums for the next several years.

I view that mentality the same way I do people who say "Let's play AoS, but no objectives". You're not playing AoS. You're rolling dice with AoS models on the table. This type of gameplay is why people still claim AoS devolves into a mass of bodies in the middle of the table. It only does that because people strip out the rules that discourage it. I could see people not wanting to use the extra artifacts and things like that, but the Endless Spells are no different to any other unit whose kit you by in my mind. It doesn't give you any more of an "advantage" than fielding a Lord of Khorne. If you have the model and you pay the points, you have access to the warscroll.

It is my hope that this turns out to not be the case and that the spells are used in their entirety.

I just know how the tournament scene drives the casual scene too, so it'll be a wait and see.

Prices have been released.

Magic box is $85
GHB $35
Core book they are saying $60
Box set is $160 but comes with core book.

Reaction locally is a mixed bag. Mixed excitement coupled by the tourney guys only going for the GHB, downloading the free rules, and waiting to see if the magic set will be usable in tournaments before buying them.

Which means if there's no answer by fall (I think NOVA is the next GT) the store campaign is going to have a battle on its hands on whether or not to use those.

My map campaign is using ALL OF IT.

EnTyme - I personally feel that when you agree to a game of Warhammer or Sigmar as a pick up game without any other details then you agree to play armies as shown in the codex/battletome along with any offiical GW model releases with a dataslate release; coupled with the core big rule book
Today it would also include the generals handbook and any released FAQ/Errata.

Without any other feedback that's the core of the game; the basic package. Adding forgeworld, magic, cities of death, expansions or anything else is adding to that core game.

It's basically setting limits for what is and isn't allowed and ALSO telling your opponent what they can potentially expect on the table.



So in the case of Sigmar if you and me had a pick up game and all we said was "lets play sigmar" I'd expect the rules, generals handbook, FAQ/Errata and Battletomes for the armies.

I wouldn't expect the magic expansion nor Forgeworld Unique models so I wouldn't plan to encounter them in the least.



It's not a question of balance, but one of expectations and limits. It's also polite because it means, lets say, one person doesn't have access to the magic expansion. By specifying the expansion you are going to use it gives them a chance to say "Oh wait I don't own that can we leave it out please." Rather than having them turn up and you throwing it down into your army and them suddenly feeling like you're playing with an advantage over them; or suddenly you're stuck because you only took that army and you've nothing else to swap in.



I never understand why people get so defensive about wanting to auto-include all extras to the game. Asking to include them is not denying you the chance to use them; its not taking them away. It is simply being a clear communicator to your opponent on the details of the game you are setting up to play. I consider it not just something important but also bare bones basic wargamer manners.

 EnTyme wrote:

auticus wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

On a side note, I'm still not sure what part of the Endless Spells people are considering to be "optional". You pay points for the spell. You use the spell.

Much like forgeworld being optional to a lot of people. You pay points for forgeworld models too, but some people won't let you use it in games. Or 40k apocalypse when it was optional. You paid points for super heavies but it was optional.

People see endless spells as equally optional. A lot of people don't want to buy additional rules period, and at the same time don't want their opponent to do so either to have "an advantage". So basically its "play AOS, but no endless spells". If tournaments allow Endless Spells, they won't have much footing to stand on and will go along with it because they'll have to if they want to play in tournaments. If tournaments ban endless spells... it'll be something people fight over in forums for the next several years.

I view that mentality the same way I do people who say "Let's play AoS, but no objectives". You're not playing AoS. You're rolling dice with AoS models on the table. This type of gameplay is why people still claim AoS devolves into a mass of bodies in the middle of the table. It only does that because people strip out the rules that discourage it. I could see people not wanting to use the extra artifacts and things like that, but the Endless Spells are no different to any other unit whose kit you by in my mind. It doesn't give you any more of an "advantage" than fielding a Lord of Khorne. If you have the model and you pay the points, you have access to the warscroll.

You're basically saying they are having fun the wrong way. There isn't a wrong or right way to play AoS; it's a game!

A great irony is how many people will bemoan that some take the game too seriously or are too hostile towards a certain play style... While being hostile towards certain play styles themselves.

Carnith wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/11/11th-june-preview-the-core-bookgw-homepage-post-1/

Seems like the spells, artefacts, and command abilities are in the core rules.

Then is Malign sorcery a copy of this, or is it just endless spells?

Those are tied to the realms; malign sorcery is artifacts and endless spells iirc

Auticus and entyme: you guys seem to be missing the concept of baseline rules for the game (core rules) vs extras (traditionally called supplements/expansions). Not playing apocalypse every game from its release in 4th to its pretty much integration in 7th didn't correlate to "not playing with objectives". Same thing with battle missions, same with storm of magic, same thing with planetstrike, same thing with zone mortalis, same thing with the realm rules in the last generals handbook.

I'm not even saying anything about balance, just that the core mechanics are what you need to have a baseline game of either system, and then there's a bunch of stuff you have the, say it with me, option, to add on top of that. Like currently we know there's a ton of rules for the realms. We also know they said it was optional, meaning I'd probably like to be informed of intent to use those rules if I'm setting up a matched game. We don't know if malign sorcery is part of the rules that need more than a " you want to play 2000 of matched aos?" or not.