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EnTyme wrote:

auticus wrote:
A: The player that first finished setting up their army
always chooses who has the first turn in the first battle
round, unless specifically noted otherwise in the
battleplan that is being used.

Yeah, looks like they may have decided to change it after the Core Rules were published. I find the bolded part interesting, though. I'm assuming that means different battle plans will use different deployment methods, so in some cases, the first to finish always gets to choose, but in others, we'll roll of for who chooses. In the latter case, it'll probably say that ties go to the first to finish.

Waitasec! What if the matched play batteplans (that's what the scenarios are called, right?) have a caveat about rolling off per the RAW? I've never read them, so maybe that's a matched play thing that we / I don't know about? Grasping at straws here but still, that's a potential out right there ...

auticus wrote:

And having to eyeball 25mm square as 32mm round isn't easy.

Our local games here are also surprisingly lax on the subject (no one is forcing anyone to rebase) though our couple hard core tournament players passive aggressively insinuate you are cheating if you don't rebase.

Frankly the biggest issue I've found is using square bases (20 square vs 25 round; 25 square vs 32 round), as they allow far more models to attak than proper up-sized rounds by being able to align flush with each other, and without templates there's no incentive not to do this. Likewise using 25 bases instead of 32 bases for 1" weapon infantry. My bloodletters, with their preposterous 1" hellblades (I still can't get over this, look at the models GW!), get double the attaks if they're on smaller bases ... which feels so wrong that it's one of the reasons I'm completely rebuilding my old metal Khorne bois in shiny plastic

Also just saying it now, I'm still gonna upbase my heroes. It's cooler and has little effect - I guess slightly larger auras? While also pushing their underlings out of base contact at times and being slightly larger targets for ranged assassination? Whatever, it looks cool.

Mymearan wrote:I expect some of these base sizes to be corrected sooner rather than later. For example Ogors, Dragons (like five different base sizes on the same/very similar models), and models that are supposed to use one size when they actually come with another size. They put out so much material at once with all the FAQs that I'm not surprised so many errors slipped through.

Speaking of Ogres, still probably going with 40mm, again for looks vs their 50mm heroes, which should have minimal effect on game play (1" weapons can't reach across either base, 2" weapons can already reach across 1 base worth but not 2). And as noted I can just magnetize on 50mm MDF bases underneath the minis if it's a problem for somebody.

auticus wrote:Yeah I'm not really interested in paying a ton of points for half useful battalions. If I really want a command point I'll just shell 50 points for it instead of 220 lol.

Drop limitation and the bonus artefact seem bigger buffs than the CP personally. But even then I'm on the fence about shoehorning in the meh battalions my red daemons fit into.

Mega quote storm aside, I think it's worth saying that as a Count As player I'm a big proponent of using proper bases, however as a Counts As player I'm also pretty dedicated to the Rule of Cool. There are times proper basing has enough of an impact to override cool / whatever reasons people are still on squares (seriously just use an adapter or magnetize to MDF rounds underneath, it's easy and cheap), but in large part I'm just thrilled that some people still paint + base their dudes.

- Salvage

I knew it was coming, still, not rebasing my hag queens, the wolf mounts aren't going to be able to balance on 25mms anyway.

Overall, I'm fine with asking my opponent to indulge the different sized base, and be prepared to subtract the difference in radius to the range of their spells and abilities.

And of course, will have an alt model ready if they aren't cool with it.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Overall, I'm fine with asking my opponent to indulge the different sized base, and be prepared to subtract the difference in radius to the range of their spells and abilities.

Ah smart, there's the solution for up-based heroes accidental buff

- Salvage

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I knew it was coming, still, not rebasing my hag queens, the wolf mounts aren't going to be able to balance on 25mms anyway.

Overall, I'm fine with asking my opponent to indulge the different sized base, and be prepared to subtract the difference in radius to the range of their spells and abilities.

And of course, will have an alt model ready if they aren't cool with it.

That's good, because it's precisely what the base chart guidelines suggest you do.

Thommy H wrote:

That's good, because it's precisely what the base chart guidelines suggest you do.

Well that's good, because I didn't read that part!

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I knew it was coming, still, not rebasing my hag queens, the wolf mounts aren't going to be able to balance on 25mms anyway.

Overall, I'm fine with asking my opponent to indulge the different sized base, and be prepared to subtract the difference in radius to the range of their spells and abilities.

And of course, will have an alt model ready if they aren't cool with it.

I'd suggest cutting out some cardboard "templates" for different base sizes that you can slide under the model when a precise measurement is required.

Typically what I do is if I'm on a smaller base or a square I give my opponent the extra few mm when a model is out of range to fight or what have you.

Battletome Preview: Stormhost Rules on Warhammer Community

WHAT IF MY STORMHOST ISN'T IN THE BOOK?

Worry not! While these rules are designed to represent the unique tactics of the most iconic groupings of Stormcast Eternals, you can use them however you’ve painted your models – just choose the rules that you think best represent how YOUR army fights.

By the same credit, these rules aren’t compulsory – if you’d rather leave yourself the flexibility of not fighting for a specific Stormhost, you can do so!

In fact, these rules are a bit of a treat for those who like to home-brew their own Stormhosts and characters, allowing you to further distinguish your army to represent how YOU think it should play. If your Stormcast Eternals are cerebral, patient and tactical, you could use the Tempest Lords rules, while the Celestial Warbringers rules are perfect for those looking to make the most out of magic.

Chapter tactics, great. Now we can all shelve the old books and hope the next one has the -1 to be hit tactic.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Chapter tactics, great. Now we can all shelve the old books and hope the next one has the -1 to be hit tactic.

So, where were you when the Overlords book came out? Daughters of Khaine? Idoneth?

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:

auticus wrote:
Q: Does the player that first finished setting up their army
always choose who has the first turn in the first battle round, or
is it only if the roll-off is a tie?

A: The player that first finished setting up their army
always chooses who has the first turn in the first battle
round, unless specifically noted otherwise in the
battleplan that is being used.

So as we can see, the warhammer community page was correct, and despite it being clear rules as written, it was actually the way we feared it would be. That if you set up first, you still get to choose.

Yuck. Suppose it further justifies battalion points increases across the board + the need to include them if at all possible. Annnd sorry armies without battalions / books

- Salvage

Well magootkin has a battletome and every batallion in the entire book is fething garbage, so toss us in that pile to.

At least we get the Plaguetouched Warband.

 Fafnir wrote:
At least we get the Plaguetouched Warband.

There's a lot of angst over on the TGA Khorne thread about this Q+A and its impact on the Everchosen battalions:

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies
and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the
army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the
same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two
different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army
that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units,
for example)?
A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is
shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion.
In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the
Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll
battalions that share the same allegiance as an army
can always be taken as part of the army, and if they
include any allied units, these units do not count against
the limits on the number of allies the army can have
(or against the points limit that can be spent on allies
in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll
battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the
army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the
limits on the number of allies the army can have (and
the points for the battalion and the units in it count
against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a
Pitched Battle).

I don't know about the Nurgle books, but basically the takeaway was that a Bloodmarked Warband has to be CHAOS (or EVERCHOSEN? I don't know) not KHORNE, so no blood tithe and what not.

- Salvage

"A battalion can still be part of any allegiance that all its units have on their warscrolls."

It's in all the 2018 battletomes, I assume it's somewhere in the core rules as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regarding base size, all the tournaments I have attended in the last two years have mandated the models be on the correctly sized rounds. They did it because players can, and were, utilizing square bases for advantage (and it can be a big advantage). I even did it in the GHB1 days; it was foolish to willingly gimp myself by putting things on larger round bases. I'm glad that tournaments have since moved to mandatory resizing. Even models on squares can be blue tack'd to the correct rounds then just pulled off after the tournaments.

 Boss Salvage wrote:


I don't know about the Nurgle books, but basically the takeaway was that a Bloodmarked Warband has to be CHAOS (or EVERCHOSEN? I don't know) not KHORNE, so no blood tithe and what not.

- Salvage

Yeah, they'll have to have the Everchosen allegiance. Which, honestly, kind of makes sense - it's supposed to specifically represent a Khornate warband sworn to Archaon, so you could understand why they might be a little less favoured in the eyes of their god.

Easy answer for measuring from bases. Just start measuring from the center of the mini. Add half of what ever is suppose to be the proper base. Problem solved.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regarding base size, all the tournaments I have attended in the last two years have mandated the models be on the correctly sized rounds. They did it because players can, and were, utilizing square bases for advantage (and it can be a big advantage). I even did it in the GHB1 days; it was foolish to willingly gimp myself by putting things on larger round bases. I'm glad that tournaments have since moved to mandatory resizing. Even models on squares can be blue tack'd to the correct rounds then just pulled off after the tournaments.

The problem with the GW base size list is that it's just sometimes another base size as they are showing on pictures (e.g. ogors are on 40 in pics, but the list tells us 50) or another size than they are supllied with (e.g. Harbinger of Decay comes with an oval base but is shown in pics on 60mm round and the list also tells us 60mm round).

 Hanskrampf wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regarding base size, all the tournaments I have attended in the last two years have mandated the models be on the correctly sized rounds. They did it because players can, and were, utilizing square bases for advantage (and it can be a big advantage). I even did it in the GHB1 days; it was foolish to willingly gimp myself by putting things on larger round bases. I'm glad that tournaments have since moved to mandatory resizing. Even models on squares can be blue tack'd to the correct rounds then just pulled off after the tournaments.

The problem with the GW base size list is that it's just sometimes another base size as they are showing on pictures (e.g. ogors are on 40 in pics, but the list tells us 50) or another size than they are supllied with (e.g. Harbinger of Decay comes with an oval base but is shown in pics on 60mm round and the list also tells us 60mm round).

That is something I hope is just a mistake and they will fix.

Yup plaguetouched in a nurgle army is dead. And its not because of what Ninth posted.. its because of re-working what is counted as allies.

Ninth, I KNOW that line "A battalion can still be part of any allegiance that all its units have on their warscrolls." is in the magootkin book somehwere....but cant find it. Do you have a clue where it is printed?

Also it is NOT in the LoN book.

It's in the description for warscrolls, right before the warscrolls themselves. You're right, it isn't in LoN, but it's in Maggotkin, DoK, and Idoneth.

So to repeat, Plaguetouched Warband does NOT have to be an ally, as it can explicitely be included in Nurgle since all of the units within it are Nurgle. I guess you could technically treat it as an ally if you wanted to, but there's no point in that.

Interesting bit in a Warhammer Community article.

And once more, the gods hungrily seek the souls of the fallen for their own purposes – be it to raise them high as new Stormcast Eternals, to recreate races long lost in the world-that-was, or simply to create an army of the dead that will outnumber all the living and bring the eternal order that Nagash craves.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/28/28th-june-malign-portents-the-story-so-fargw-homepage-post-1/

Recreate races long lost in the world-that-was? Who could that be, Brettonians, Tomb Kings, Chaos Dwarfs maybe? What do you folks think?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's in the description for warscrolls, right before the warscrolls themselves. You're right, it isn't in LoN, but it's in Maggotkin, DoK, and Idoneth.

So to repeat, Plaguetouched Warband does NOT have to be an ally, as it can explicitely be included in Nurgle since all of the units within it are Nurgle. I guess you could technically treat it as an ally if you wanted to, but there's no point in that.

I want to believe in this with all my heart.. but I have a feeling that the new rule book overrides the battletome? Its very very frustrating to me that it is this difficult to figure out whether an army is valid or not.

Forgeworld warscrolls are up. Exalted great unclean one is a nice looking paper weight now.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/aos-monstrous-arcanum.pdf

Exalted Great Unclean One is basically trash now. Which might explain why he was given a summoning discount.

Marleymoo wrote:
Recreate races long lost in the world-that-was? Who could that be, Brettonians, Tomb Kings, Chaos Dwarfs maybe? What do you folks think?

Aelves.

Morathi, Malerion, Teclis and Tyrion are all about this.

auticus wrote:
Exalted Great Unclean One is basically trash now. Which might explain why he was given a summoning discount.

I should have seen this coming. PTWB gets ripped from my arms, so I make a list completely revolving around the EGUO last night. Wake up and its functionally invalid. feth this earth.

what is this nonsense? Ogors, Leadbelchers and Ironguts in the pictures on their warscrolls are clearly on 40mm bases. Thats the studios army! I'm not rebasing mine thats for sure.

TGA ogre peeps are currently barraging GW with emails about how 50mm is bad and wrong (badrong), along with sundry other basing things that go against bases models actually ship with + what studio armies have shown us. They say they're amenable to input, so here's hoping ... but in the meantime yea, don't sweat it. 40mm is the obvious answer.

- Salvage

I'm also seeing a lot of people trying to enforce their base guidelines being mandatory.

Or the document is future proof and we have to expect new models and/or repacks sooner or later

Marleymoo wrote:
Recreate races long lost in the world-that-was? Who could that be, Brettonians, Tomb Kings, Chaos Dwarfs maybe? What do you folks think?

Tomb Kings would be part of the Undead. That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing fleshed out Khemrians (literally) being brought in to the game. Only, which plane would they be from?

Commodus Leitdorf wrote:what is this nonsense? Ogors, Leadbelchers and Ironguts in the pictures on their warscrolls are clearly on 40mm bases. Thats the studios army! I'm not rebasing mine thats for sure.

Boss Salvage wrote:TGA ogre peeps are currently barraging GW with emails about how 50mm is bad and wrong (badrong), along with sundry other basing things that go against bases models actually ship with + what studio armies have shown us. They say they're amenable to input, so here's hoping ... but in the meantime yea, don't sweat it. 40mm is the obvious answer.

auticus wrote:I'm also seeing a lot of people trying to enforce their base guidelines being mandatory.

kodos wrote:Or the document is future proof and we have to expect new models and/or repacks sooner or later

Annnnd base chart is updated >> https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_base_sizes_en2.pdf

- Salvage