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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 04:33:26
Subject: Re:New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
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Don't worry everyone, just give it a little time for Gdubs to sell a bunch of undead stuff (that they haven't been able to move in forever because they gave no love to them), and once that stock is moved they will nerf this. Claiming "unforseen consequences" just like they did with tide is traitors in 40k after they sold a ton of cultists and poxwalkers.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/26 04:34:06
Let a billion souls burn in death than for one soul to bend knee to a false Emperor.....
"I am the punishment of God, had you not committed great sin, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 04:51:09
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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I think we are all half-hoping that there is a massive unseen factor and half-dreading that there isn't.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 06:53:53
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Pious Palatine
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NinthMusketeer wrote:I think we are all half-hoping that there is a massive unseen factor and half-dreading that there isn't.
Feel free to check back here on release day. My job gives me plenty of time to comb through the books and come up with every busted combo and broken wording in the new GHB/Core rules. Normally I'd only do my army but I've seen so many people on so many sites be either completely blindly optimistic about the changes or spreading misinformation(Oh, they said every army is definitely getting summoning! Oh Tzeentch will be worse cause horrors can't split even though there has been no indication that they won't, oh it's only units with the Summonable keyword even though no it's not, that's a death specific thing.) that I'm deeply personally invested in breaking this system as hard as possible.
(Kanluwen and Auticus have been fairly pro summoning, but they're not in the group of people I would categorize as 'blindly optimistic)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 08:56:27
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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all i say is, thank god for house rules.
at this point im more inntrested in GHB18 then AoS 2nd edition.
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darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 09:10:55
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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drbored wrote: ...
And again, just to make sure I don't come off the wrong way, I still want to wait for the full rules. I'm not saying that this is definitely how it will go down, that's just my concern. I'm sure they've playtested these rules with their combo of playtesters to make sure there are no grand oversights that would cause problems like this, and it's also likely that actual games won't go the way that we are imagining at all. Still, I'm waiting for some official word, or the full rules, before we can determine if it's horribly broken or if this is a lot of hoopla about nothing.
That's a reasonable perspective to have, in my opinion, paricularly considering GW's history.
Let's see what they have come up with this time
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 12:14:09
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Clousseau
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So from my conversations and reading over the past week what I am seeing is that there are a giant chunk of people who WANT summoning to be highly influential in the game and who WANT it to be along the lines of what it used to be so long as everyone else can do it.
Which really really rubs me wrong because this is a big red warning sign considering some of these people are supposedly in the UK GT scene and are part of the playtesting...
(I have detailed above why summoning can wreck communities, even if everyone else can do it - because it forces a playstyle to have to do it and forces people to feel like they have to buy a bunch more models)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/26 12:14:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 12:16:27
Subject: Re:New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Listening to the podcast, the new "Predatory Endless spells"? Your opponent can seize control of them. Jervis comments that there are some that will "give you a permanent buff" so there's some interesting ideas here. If an enemy is within 3" of you, you can only target that enemy with your missile weapons. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Endless Spells!
Endless spells are moved at the start of each battle round after determining who gets the first turn, with players taking it in turns to pick a spell to move, starting with the player that has the second turn that round. You’ll be able to move any Endless Spell with this move, not just the ones you control, representing their wild and untameable nature. Summon a Suffocating Gravetide and you might find yourself needing to volunteer to take the second turn in a round to stop your opponent from sending it crashing into your own units! Suddenly, always shooting for a double turn can become a very dangerous prospect indeed…

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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/26 14:36:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 15:35:40
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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May our Tzeentch overlords have mercy on us.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 15:41:11
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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Bale wind vortexes being changed is good imo.
Double turns being balanced out by these is interesting in concept, though I'm not convinced it's a huge sacrifice right now .
Really not sure how the realm selection mechanic is going to work if all the endless spells have bonuses for realms tpp
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5,000 Raven Guard
3,000 Night Lords |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 15:51:27
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos
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Same way it's always worked. You choose or roll off before the battle.
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2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 16:01:22
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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So they won't be in matched play still? Good
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5,000 Raven Guard
3,000 Night Lords |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 16:19:09
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Charging Dragon Prince
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I have a feeling I'll be making a transition to KoW.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 16:41:02
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos
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Realm selection is a core rule. It's mostly been ignored since it didn't have much effect on the game up until now unless you used the Aqshy rules from the Age of Sigmar tome (which I didn't even know about until Kanluwan pointed it out in another thread). They may actually change how the selection is made in the next edition, though. It does seem pretty important now. The previews also seem to be hinting at some sort of realm affinity or home realm mechanic that takes place during list building.
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2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 17:09:22
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I feel like lists are going to become very interesting. Like, I will always take a spare Tidecaster JUST to spend the spellcasting to prevent my opponent from getting an Endless Spell off. We'll see how that goes down.
I'm torn on this as I am with summoning. I'm a bit concerned, mainly because I was hoping that Endless Spells would be the thing that helps balance summoning, but that's clearly not the case. It'll be interesting to see how the spell tug-of-war plays out in actual games. If nothing else, I'm loving seeing the models for the spells and am already planning on getting some to use for spells in DnD.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 17:11:50
Subject: Re:New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols
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I er...might be taking my navigator more often now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 17:33:05
Subject: Re:New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Brutal Black Orc
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Or praying your opponent likes endless spells and double turns.
"Oh, that's a nice sun of shyish you summoned there, it would be a pity if it rammed into your army."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 17:42:34
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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They're not core, theyre optional narrative section rules unless the formatting on my book is wildly off
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5,000 Raven Guard
3,000 Night Lords |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 17:51:37
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/26 17:52:21
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 18:21:02
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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Ah gotcha. I was looking at any rules that stem from being in a given mortal realm, which are all narrative at this point
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5,000 Raven Guard
3,000 Night Lords |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 18:26:58
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos
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Yeah. Like I said, up to this point, the realm hasn't mattered much, so it's been more or less ignored.
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2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 19:54:19
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Pious Palatine
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EnTyme wrote:Yeah. Like I said, up to this point, the realm hasn't mattered much, so it's been more or less ignored.
And if they keep the 'roll a dice and pray' system it's going to be rejected. Whether or not it's a "core" rule is irrelevant. All that matters is whether it's stupid bullgak or not and randomly winning the game because you started in Hysh and got banishment(which is by FAR the most powerful spell in the game) against my Ironjawz army is so blatantly asinine that I can't see it being accepted in matched play.
As the realms exist now, based on what information we have on them, they have no place in matched play. It's incredibly unlikely that the relics you get access to will be equally useful to both armies and the realms specific spells are inherently unbalanced both in how they effect the armies they're used against AND how they can be used by the armies that cast them. Endless spells only exacerbate this.
You're looking at tons of situations where you roll up the the table, roll for the realm you're playing in, look at their army, look at your army, shake hands and go to lunch. At best the realms will make games significantly more difficult for one player for no reason. And in an edition where armies with strong wizards and strong summoning are already at a massive advantage and where shooting is the weakest it's ever been, this is looking very, very bad so far.
Like here's one combo already Arkhan->Umbral spell portal->Banishment puts your 4" move, 10 man unit of brutes into the far corner of the board away from any heroes that could speed boost them, that unit may as well be dead for how useless it's going to be, and he can do that 4 more times. You lose outright because your opponent used things he was already taking anyway to take advantage of poorly thought out realm specific spells in a way your army isn't capable of. No ironjawz army is going to get an unbind off against arkhan, he's +3 to cast BASE AND has a longer casting range than you, and the chances of getting your own banishment off are miniscule. You'll be lucky to even make the casting value, let alone get past Arkhans unbind.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 20:30:08
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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On the other hand, these will be great fun in Path to Glory Automatically Appended Next Post: Barak Nar just went from the star in fluff only to the actual star skyport.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/26 20:31:17
Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/26 21:47:58
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos
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I was more referring to you and your opponent agreeing on s realm, and using a roll-off to decide if you can't, but blindly panicking and screaming "THE END IS NIGH!" also works, Erjack.
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2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/27 00:05:36
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Clousseau
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I've been reading that you will pick the realm your army comes from and that you get the realm specific bonuses of that realm to your army.
Cool idea. However if one or two realms have OP abilities compared to the others, everyone will just choose those which will end up causing heart burn.
If true of course. If true.
Another trend I've picked up on in conversations is the idea that models that can now be summoned will be jacked up in points so that spam summoning them wont break the game and in fact "spam summoning will be how you are expected to win with those armies".
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/27 00:07:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/27 00:12:36
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Pious Palatine
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EnTyme wrote:I was more referring to you and your opponent agreeing on s realm, and using a roll-off to decide if you can't, but blindly panicking and screaming "THE END IS NIGH!" also works, Erjack.
If the realm is random, and it will have to be against any two armies that benefit from different realms differently, then it will empower one army over another with no investment on either players part. This is bad. This is especially bad for tournaments. For this to not be rejected by matched play, they will have to find a better system than 'rolled a 6, cool, my army is massively better now'. A realm system is not necessarily bad(although Banishment is certainly not helping the cause any) but it being totally random absolutely IS.
It's cute that 'pointing out obvious flaws with randomly handing one player the game for free' is panicking and screaming to you though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
auticus wrote:I've been reading that you will pick the realm your army comes from and that you get the realm specific bonuses of that realm to your army.
Cool idea. However if one or two realms have OP abilities compared to the others, everyone will just choose those which will end up causing heart burn.
If true of course. If true.
Another trend I've picked up on in conversations is the idea that models that can now be summoned will be jacked up in points so that spam summoning them wont break the game and in fact "spam summoning will be how you are expected to win with those armies".
The first system is definitely superior to 'rolled the realm my army is best on at the start of the game, aren't I skilled?', but basically becomes just additional allegiance abilities. Of all 8 realms each army will have a handful of spells/artefacts that it strongly favors. It's basically just more bookwork. For Narrative play it will be fluffy and cool but for matched play it'll just be another tab at the top of the List-builder.
The other point makes sense, but I can't really see it happening. GW are generally more conservative(and less skillful) with points changes than that kind of thing would require. The GHB 2017 was a dumpster fire of over-buffing and over-nerfing armies that managed to still miss a bunch of things(Kharadron, most of destruction).
Both are pure speculation though. They've made no indication that anything is being done to temper the power gained through free summoning(so far) and they've been incredibly vague with how the realm system will actually work.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/27 00:25:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/27 00:31:14
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos
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Dude, I'm not saying you roll for the realm. How do you roll for seven options on a d6? I'm saying you and your opponent agree on a realm (like you do now). If you can't agree, you roll off and the higher roll chooses the realm. Also, I can't imagine tournaments won't specify the realm and let players know ahead of time.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/27 00:34:05
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/27 00:53:27
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It'd be pretty cool to have realm-themed tournaments with realm-themed terrain and such. Would love to have a tournament in the Realm of Metal with lots of crazy stone and metal structures.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/27 01:15:22
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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So in its last days Fantasy became Hero-Hammer, and it sounds like they're damn insistent on 2.0 AoS becoming Wizard-Hammer.
Meanwhile, as a Dispossessed/Ironweld/Fyreslayer fan, i'm just watching the meta burn, and embracing what at a glance looks like being absolutely trash-tier.
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11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/27 02:39:29
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Clousseau
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Based on the overwhelmingly positive response it would appear that wizard fight club is what the community is wanting.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/05/27 03:02:21
Subject: New AOS Edition comes out in June
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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The upside is that 8th ed WHFB wizardhammer couldn't be fixed by a trio of one-sentence house rules; 'no summoning' 'no realm spells' 'no endless spells' assuming worst comes to worst and these things have no balancing element of note there is at least a way out. That said the part where the player who summons an endless spell may not get to keep controlling it is certainly helpful.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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