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auticus wrote: Based on the overwhelmingly positive response it would appear that wizard fight club is what the community is wanting.
I'll admit what drew me to this game was Swords & Sorcery.
I am super amped for these rules. Abilities should not be useless. It just so happens that i elected to play undead, and have Nagash all ready to go, right before the news dropped for 2.0.
I picked death knowing they were weak in 1.0. Them getting better in 2.0 is a nice bonus. In general i've observed that players on this forum want bad armies to stay bad. Not sure why though
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
I'd be alright with summoning if units that were summoned came at a discounted value. Say, 50% of their normal unit value or something. It would still allow you to define the upper limit to the intended size of a game, and require players to actually plan and set aside resources for their use. But it would provide enough of a value to justify jumping through the hoops needed to get those models on the table in the first place (excluding instant drops, like Alarielle's). But it should absolutely not be straight zero-cost.
I don't want bad armies. Or OP armies. I want every army to be viable.
Right now the panic is that a lot of us have lived through bad gw rules destroying our community, particularly with free summoning.
7th edition WHFB it was a bitter topic (demons and undead). 6th and 7th 40k it was a bitter topic. AOS 1.0 took it to a whole new level of stupid with chain summoning (i summon a wizard, who summons a greater demon, who summons another wizard, who summons horrors, that summon a wizard, that summons a greater demon)
I don't have a big problem with wizard fight club 2.0. I'm really after armies clashing to be honest.
Conquest finally put their rules up and I'm waiting patiently for that game to drop.
Fafnir wrote: I'd be alright with summoning if units that were summoned came at a discounted value. Say, 50% of their normal unit value or something. It would still allow you to define the upper limit to the intended size of a game, and require players to actually plan and set aside resources for their use. But it would provide enough of a value to justify jumping through the hoops needed to get those models on the table in the first place (excluding instant drops, like Alarielle's). But it should absolutely not be straight zero-cost.
If units that can get summoned came in at a discounted value, then what's the point of playing a non-summoning army? Do armies that can hold units back off the board get a 50% discount too?
Right now, we've got only a few things that are able to 'instant drop'. Alarielle has it as a "once per game" usage of an ability she has and the rest is just kind of up in the air for the fine details of the mechanisms.
auticus wrote: I don't want bad armies. Or OP armies. I want every army to be viable.
Right now the panic is that a lot of us have lived through bad gw rules destroying our community, particularly with free summoning.
7th edition WHFB it was a bitter topic (demons and undead). 6th and 7th 40k it was a bitter topic. AOS 1.0 took it to a whole new level of stupid with chain summoning (i summon a wizard, who summons a greater demon, who summons another wizard, who summons horrors, that summon a wizard, that summons a greater demon)
I don't have a big problem with wizard fight club 2.0. I'm really after armies clashing to be honest.
Conquest finally put their rules up and I'm waiting patiently for that game to drop.
The difference I see between this and older edition summoning issues is that GW is taking a more active and aggressive role in balancing their games now, even if they don't always get it right. Keep in mind that AoS is on the same rules schedule as 40k. They'll release an Errata/FAQ shortly after a book is released, and we'll get two "Big FAQs" a year to help balance things in addition to the yearly GHB points adjustment. As Ninth pointed out, all of the issues people have mentioned with the new summoning system can be fixed or adjusted either through house rules or through errata. I hated free summoning. I also hated full-point summoning. I think "conditional summoning" is an interesting compromise, and I'm willing to see how it actually plays out before I make a judgement. If it turns out to be broken, my group will make the necessary adjustments until GW does so officially, and I don't believe the current leadership will be willing to throw away the good faith they've rebuilt over the last few years just to turn a quick profit. They seem to understand that long-term success comes from a happy fanbase.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/27 15:03:48
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
I will revisit this after June 23rd when we can objectively see how many free points the worst offenders can manage, and then decide if thats enough to be a problem or not.
As I mentioned earlier... i'm just REALLY hoping I don't feel miserable buyers remorse in a month.
I JUST spent $500 on Fyreslayers to reconcile making my old Fantasy Dwarves into a competitive contemporary army for AoS, and with all the focus on Wizards, and Summoning... I feel like without some neat inclusions in GH3, i'm going to feel awful.
Well if you're a competitive player and you've been on the gw merry go round then you know any competitive army you buy is only going to be optimal powergaming material for a short time before you have to buy the next powergaming army.
This is why I got off that merry go round eleven years ago.
auticus wrote: Well if you're a competitive player and you've been on the gw merry go round then you know any competitive army you buy is only going to be optimal powergaming material for a short time before you have to buy the next powergaming army.
This is why I got off that merry go round eleven years ago.
I wasn't even looking for "optimal power-gaming". I just wanted to naively modernize my Dwarves with some more competitive list-building options. I also didn't think they'd possibly go right back to bottom-tier quite that suddenly. :-p Its true we can't judge until the books are all out, etc... but so far the fixation on spells and summoning has me filled with dread.
These abilities now cost no reinforcement points and have been tweaked so they work once per Ghoul King. In short, this means that every Ghoul King essentially comes with a free unit, while your Courtiers will ensure they stay in the fight. Our recommendation? Take a Royal Family Warscroll Battalion, max out on Ghoul Kings of your choice and quickly multiply your army with command points for maximum efficiency.
Considering the value proposition of a Ghoul King on Terrorgeist as a Wizard and now source of guaranteed free Courtiers... their price better go way up, or we'll have... pardon the pun... a monster on our hands.
Ironically i've owned three forever with no desire to run them. :-p
auticus wrote: Well if you're a competitive player and you've been on the gw merry go round then you know any competitive army you buy is only going to be optimal powergaming material for a short time before you have to buy the next powergaming army.
This is why I got off that merry go round eleven years ago.
Yeah but there's a guilty pleasure in having a busted-ass cheese list 'in the back' in case a player gets uppity...
That said, Tzeentch and Stormcast have had top-tier status in GHB1 and 2, we'll see if they stay as such. Stormcast are the poster boys so probably, but I HOPE to be taking vindictive joy in watching Tzeentch be nerfed to oblivion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/27 18:35:56
Yesterday I was admonished on twitter by some of the tga crew that are also playtesters that my 25% sudden death rule would break certain armies that require spamming summoning to be "viable". Today with the flesh eater court reveal we see what they mean. I was going to quote the piece directly but Kanluwen already did for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And breaking that down at least with what we have now... each ghoul king can bring in roughly a 150 point unit. And you can have 4 in 1000 points and 6 in 2000 points.
Spend 100 points on 2 CPs. Take a batallion. Start the game with 4 CPs. Blow my load in turn 1 on 4 free units (600 points). If I have 6 heroes then in turn 2 and turn 3 I'll bring in another one for a total of 900 free points in a 2000 point game.
2900 - 2000 point game.
I don't see why they don't just say "if you're playing flesh eater courts you get an extra 500 points per 1000 points played" because essentially that's what they are doing here.
And Legion of Nagash will be similar only with recycling dead units.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/27 20:57:01
Fafnir wrote: I'd be alright with summoning if units that were summoned came at a discounted value. Say, 50% of their normal unit value or something. It would still allow you to define the upper limit to the intended size of a game, and require players to actually plan and set aside resources for their use. But it would provide enough of a value to justify jumping through the hoops needed to get those models on the table in the first place (excluding instant drops, like Alarielle's). But it should absolutely not be straight zero-cost.
If units that can get summoned came in at a discounted value, then what's the point of playing a non-summoning army? Do armies that can hold units back off the board get a 50% discount too?
Right now, we've got only a few things that are able to 'instant drop'. Alarielle has it as a "once per game" usage of an ability she has and the rest is just kind of up in the air for the fine details of the mechanisms.
Wait, so free summoning is ok, but summoning for half point costs makes summoning armies OP? Can you clarify?
auticus wrote: Yesterday I was admonished on twitter by some of the tga crew that are also playtesters that my 25% sudden death rule would break certain armies that require spamming summoning to be "viable". Today with the flesh eater court reveal we see what they mean. I was going to quote the piece directly but Kanluwen already did for me.
And breaking that down at least with what we have now... each ghoul king can bring in roughly a 150 point unit. And you can have 4 in 1000 points and 6 in 2000 points.
Spend 100 points on 2 CPs. Take a batallion. Start the game with 4 CPs. Blow my load in turn 1 on 4 free units (600 points). If I have 6 heroes then in turn 2 and turn 3 I'll bring in another one for a total of 900 free points in a 2000 point game.
2900 - 2000 point game.
I don't see why they don't just say "if you're playing flesh eater courts you get an extra 500 points per 1000 points played" because essentially that's what they are doing here.
And Legion of Nagash will be similar only with recycling dead units.
I can see part of that reasoning when it comes to the "viable" part... FEC right now is so woefully weak that you could field 3k vs 2k and still lose in their current state... Given how everything has skyrocketed past them in powerlevel, you might as well reduce all the costs of each unit by a large chunk and still not consider them insane.
I've also been puzzling with this faction since this preview... The foot Ghoul King (at 120p) can bring in 10 ghouls (100p) and the monster riding ghoul kings (400/440) can summon in courtiers (up to 160p) or big gribblies (up to 160p), but they can never allow you to max out heroes due to their points cost. Additionally, you really do need the courtiers (who have no command abilities to speak of) to replenish any units. I think they can now take units above starting size (as the article implies). So realistically, you are talking about maybe 3 guys who can summon new units worth 440p (perhaps?) and then possibly some ballooning of other units through the three courtiers you could then get, but I think your 900-1000p number is more inflated than any FEC unit will ever get...
On top of that, it leaves you with an army without any proper command abilities for buffs (because the only command abilities they have, are the once per game summoning ones), no worthwhile rend options (I've seen this army snap like a twig against 10 SCE liberators with proper hero backup who tanked them the whole game), and an extremely weak magic output at best to easily take the characters out... I'm not 100% sure this army is going to tear things up, even with a "points handicap" to the opposing side.
Unless of course they start leaving in a lot of options to have the mounted ghoul king general summon twice of even three times per game (like majestic horror or attendants at court might), but until I see that, I can't judge that yet...
The boy, I say, the boy is as sharp as a sack of wet mice...
The amount that can be efficiently and optimally brought in via a proper power coefficient will not be known until the whole set of rules is released and min/maxers get some time to input variables into their spreadsheets.
However if its even 500-600 points, and if 2500-2000 advantage is still not good enough for an army, then I'll go back to my two year old argument that the gw point system in effect is useless for balance and is more a structuring tool than anything else.
However if its even 500-600 points, and if 2500-2000 advantage is still not good enough for an army, then I'll go back to my two year old argument that the gw point system in effect is useless for balance and is more a structuring tool than anything else.
The GW points system is absolutely rubbish and has been for the past 20 odd years in many of their game systems... But at least it's now more tweakable than it's ever been via GHB/CA.
And any competitive side to these games (old WHFB, 40k, AoS, bloodbowl) has always been about "breaking that points balance"(it just does it now by adding more to one side). This summoning thing (which they seem to be limited quite a bit more than some people are shouting) is just another way the competitive players can break it, next to hunting for the most efficient/undercosted units, or ways to stack buffs until the points assigned to the units are no longer representable for what the unit can do.
In other words: nothing new to see here! Just another new layer of trying to make your army better (or more) than it was originally designed.
And if it gets really bad in one way or another, GW is pretty hands-on these days through FAQ to remove the worst excesses of it.
The boy, I say, the boy is as sharp as a sack of wet mice...
FEC aren't high-tier but they certainly aren't bad. I'd say they are among the most commonly misplayed armies out there. I've seen time and again people attempt starting a FEC army then give it up as a crappy allegiance after losing a few games. They aren't actually bad, they just have a steeper learning curve than most.
Fafnir wrote: I'd be alright with summoning if units that were summoned came at a discounted value. Say, 50% of their normal unit value or something. It would still allow you to define the upper limit to the intended size of a game, and require players to actually plan and set aside resources for their use. But it would provide enough of a value to justify jumping through the hoops needed to get those models on the table in the first place (excluding instant drops, like Alarielle's). But it should absolutely not be straight zero-cost.
If units that can get summoned came in at a discounted value, then what's the point of playing a non-summoning army? Do armies that can hold units back off the board get a 50% discount too?
Right now, we've got only a few things that are able to 'instant drop'. Alarielle has it as a "once per game" usage of an ability she has and the rest is just kind of up in the air for the fine details of the mechanisms.
So wait, units that are summoned at a discount make playing non-summoning armies pointless, but units summoned for free don't? That doesn't make any sense. This is the most confusing thing you've ever said on the this board.
However if its even 500-600 points, and if 2500-2000 advantage is still not good enough for an army, then I'll go back to my two year old argument that the gw point system in effect is useless for balance and is more a structuring tool than anything else.
The GW points system is absolutely rubbish and has been for the past 20 odd years in many of their game systems... But at least it's now more tweakable than it's ever been via GHB/CA.
And any competitive side to these games (old WHFB, 40k, AoS, bloodbowl) has always been about "breaking that points balance"(it just does it now by adding more to one side). This summoning thing (which they seem to be limited quite a bit more than some people are shouting) is just another way the competitive players can break it, next to hunting for the most efficient/undercosted units, or ways to stack buffs until the points assigned to the units are no longer representable for what the unit can do.
In other words: nothing new to see here! Just another new layer of trying to make your army better (or more) than it was originally designed.
And if it gets really bad in one way or another, GW is pretty hands-on these days through FAQ to remove the worst excesses of it.
The big problems so far are that A. For the first time since probably the Eldar 7thed codex it seems like GW is going out of their way to make certain armies dramatically more powerful, including armies that REALLY didn't need it like Maggotking, DoT, and to a lesser extent, LoN. And B. GW may be hands on at FAQing things now but they're still not good at it. They tried three different times to fix the Balewind vortex and ended up with an FAQ ruling that, by raw, doesn't actually have any affect on anything.
auticus wrote: Yesterday I was admonished on twitter by some of the tga crew that are also playtesters that my 25% sudden death rule would break certain armies that require spamming summoning to be "viable". Today with the flesh eater court reveal we see what they mean. I was going to quote the piece directly but Kanluwen already did for me.
And breaking that down at least with what we have now... each ghoul king can bring in roughly a 150 point unit. And you can have 4 in 1000 points and 6 in 2000 points.
Spend 100 points on 2 CPs. Take a batallion. Start the game with 4 CPs. Blow my load in turn 1 on 4 free units (600 points). If I have 6 heroes then in turn 2 and turn 3 I'll bring in another one for a total of 900 free points in a 2000 point game.
2900 - 2000 point game.
I don't see why they don't just say "if you're playing flesh eater courts you get an extra 500 points per 1000 points played" because essentially that's what they are doing here.
And Legion of Nagash will be similar only with recycling dead units.
I can see part of that reasoning when it comes to the "viable" part... FEC right now is so woefully weak that you could field 3k vs 2k and still lose in their current state... Given how everything has skyrocketed past them in powerlevel, you might as well reduce all the costs of each unit by a large chunk and still not consider them insane.
I've also been puzzling with this faction since this preview... The foot Ghoul King (at 120p) can bring in 10 ghouls (100p) and the monster riding ghoul kings (400/440) can summon in courtiers (up to 160p) or big gribblies (up to 160p), but they can never allow you to max out heroes due to their points cost. Additionally, you really do need the courtiers (who have no command abilities to speak of) to replenish any units. I think they can now take units above starting size (as the article implies). So realistically, you are talking about maybe 3 guys who can summon new units worth 440p (perhaps?) and then possibly some ballooning of other units through the three courtiers you could then get, but I think your 900-1000p number is more inflated than any FEC unit will ever get...
On top of that, it leaves you with an army without any proper command abilities for buffs (because the only command abilities they have, are the once per game summoning ones), no worthwhile rend options (I've seen this army snap like a twig against 10 SCE liberators with proper hero backup who tanked them the whole game), and an extremely weak magic output at best to easily take the characters out... I'm not 100% sure this army is going to tear things up, even with a "points handicap" to the opposing side.
Unless of course they start leaving in a lot of options to have the mounted ghoul king general summon twice of even three times per game (like majestic horror or attendants at court might), but until I see that, I can't judge that yet...
If you take an Abhorrant Ghoulking on Terrorgeist, make him your general and give him the Double Command ability trait that the Flesh Eater Courts have, he can, BY HIMSELF, summon 960 points in 3 turns with 3 extra command points. You can take a normal FEC army, cut 10 ghouls, and Balloon your army to 2860pts, with the only possible counter being your opponent being able to kill a 14 wound monster, that is also a wizard, with most likely a 4+5++6+++, surrounded by chaff, that can heal 3d3+d6(relic) wounds across those 3 turns, all without overextending himself and letting the outflanking Horrors/Flayers steal his objectives away. If the Command abilities are once per game now that would obviously stop this, but we aren't 100% sure on that yet.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/27 23:51:24
Sounds like a fun game. Sign me up, where do I spend my hundreds of dollars on this system?
So after a very disappointing day reading this FEC change, and the community changing from "you don't know that you can spam summoning stop being negative" to "well yeah thats how iconic warhammer should be, you should be able to summon as much as you want", I stepped down from the campaign events that our GW runs and we're looking for a replacement. Most of the fantasy community is once again returning to kings of war, though I'm going to try to grow out Conquest. I dn't know how that will be since KOW is more established, but I suppose we'll see.
A good many of us are going to go into wait and see mode and watch for 6-9 months while we play other games. I suppose it may be time for me to donate my armies up so that I no longer have that emotional attachment to them, and thus to what GW does. I suppose if AOS 3.0 in a few years continues along this dumpster fire of a path, that will be a lot easier to do if I'm already into another system (its just that with fantasy there hasn't really been a good system that has caught my attention and I'm hoping that that game is Conquest)
Its been fun. Thanks for the discussions
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/28 00:31:35
“have been tweaked so they work once per Ghoul King.”
That seems pretty clear to me. Just one summon per ghoul king per game. I will admit though, that this along with the sylvaneth is an army that will encourage you to buy more minis.
So this is another case of encouraging perhaps $100 of extra purchases to be competitive.
I understand why some people are freaking out about this and also that asking people avoid exaggeration is like an old man shouting at clouds, but I dont think the sky is falling as much as people fear.
There are lots of rumours going around that summonable units are going to all get more expensive.
Gw has touted a few points drops and none of them have been summonable so it is possible.
I would hope at the very least that summonable units lose their massive regiments bonus.
Today we will get an article on shooting. We already know from the official podcast that if you are within 3 inches of a unit you may only target that unit. I wonder what other changes there will be.
Before the news of Aos2 hit, I was grudually building up a KO army. If there has been one obvious loser with the changes we have seen so far, it is KO. I hope a faction focus will illustrate some interesting options for KO in AOS2. At the moment the only way forward would seem to be a Barak Nar anti magic list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/28 00:55:51
Fafnir wrote: I'd be alright with summoning if units that were summoned came at a discounted value. Say, 50% of their normal unit value or something. It would still allow you to define the upper limit to the intended size of a game, and require players to actually plan and set aside resources for their use. But it would provide enough of a value to justify jumping through the hoops needed to get those models on the table in the first place (excluding instant drops, like Alarielle's). But it should absolutely not be straight zero-cost.
If units that can get summoned came in at a discounted value, then what's the point of playing a non-summoning army? Do armies that can hold units back off the board get a 50% discount too?
Right now, we've got only a few things that are able to 'instant drop'. Alarielle has it as a "once per game" usage of an ability she has and the rest is just kind of up in the air for the fine details of the mechanisms.
So wait, units that are summoned at a discount make playing non-summoning armies pointless, but units summoned for free don't? That doesn't make any sense. This is the most confusing thing you've ever said on the this board.
Units that are summoned at a discount and still require you to meet certain criteria would make non-summoning armies pointless, while units summoned for free wouldn't.
Why? Because of Command Points being present in the game now and how you acquire them. 1 for every 50 points difference between your army list and the points value of the match. If someone wanted to be able to, say, run a Maggotkin of Nurgle army and game the system? They'd be able to take Plaguebearers as Battleline, paying 50% less for them(in addition to any discount for taking them in large enough numbers!) since they can get summoned, and come in under the points value for the match to get more CPs than someone running a non-summoning army.
That would be in addition to them to meeting the conditions set forth for summoning units in the army and bring more crap in without having to pay points for it(or paying 50% less...not sure how you reliably plan for that since you can't actually really plan too easily for how many Contagion Points you get per turn).
Edit note-- I guess I could have been a bit more concise in my commentary, but it comes down to this: Giving one person a way to have discounted forces(battleline no less!) when points are going to be a deciding factor as to how many of a finite resource you get is asking for trouble.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/28 01:42:05
auticus wrote: Sounds like a fun game. Sign me up, where do I spend my hundreds of dollars on this system?
So after a very disappointing day reading this FEC change, and the community changing from "you don't know that you can spam summoning stop being negative" to "well yeah thats how iconic warhammer should be, you should be able to summon as much as you want", I stepped down from the campaign events that our GW runs and we're looking for a replacement. Most of the fantasy community is once again returning to kings of war, though I'm going to try to grow out Conquest. I dn't know how that will be since KOW is more established, but I suppose we'll see.
A good many of us are going to go into wait and see mode and watch for 6-9 months while we play other games. I suppose it may be time for me to donate my armies up so that I no longer have that emotional attachment to them, and thus to what GW does. I suppose if AOS 3.0 in a few years continues along this dumpster fire of a path, that will be a lot easier to do if I'm already into another system (its just that with fantasy there hasn't really been a good system that has caught my attention and I'm hoping that that game is Conquest)
Its been fun. Thanks for the discussions
I wouldn't go that far yet. If the system really is that bad a lot of the people saying it's OK will realize otherwise once they try it, and it will be house ruled into oblivion. It doesn't seem difficult to go 'no summoning' in order to fix things. Yeah, it's worse than what we have now and worse than a functioning summoning system, but AoS would still be enjoyable.
I'm moving away from the houseruling route, simply because I take 1000 kinds of hell in my community for using them. I'm now at the point where.. if I have to houserule something out, I'm better off playing a different game. What triggered me this last time was pushing out the campaign document and an undead player saying "yeah but GW said they designed the game for spam summoning and you're saying I can't now or my opponent gets a sudden death card, so you're suddenly invalidating my army".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/28 02:24:41
auticus wrote: I'm moving away from the houseruling route, simply because I take 1000 kinds of hell in my community for using them. I'm now at the point where.. if I have to houserule something out, I'm better off playing a different game. What triggered me this last time was pushing out the campaign document and an undead player saying "yeah but GW said they designed the game for spam summoning and you're saying I can't now or my opponent gets a sudden death card, so you're suddenly invalidating my army".
To be honest, you're not likely to be "spam summoning" from what's being said.
The requirement for Gravesites/Contagion Points/Doohickeys or one-off abilities to bring in stuff seems to be a limiting factor. At this point, you are trying to houserule something without having the actual rules.
Why not just say "We're not going to use the new rules for this campaign"?
Fafnir wrote: I'd be alright with summoning if units that were summoned came at a discounted value. Say, 50% of their normal unit value or something. It would still allow you to define the upper limit to the intended size of a game, and require players to actually plan and set aside resources for their use. But it would provide enough of a value to justify jumping through the hoops needed to get those models on the table in the first place (excluding instant drops, like Alarielle's). But it should absolutely not be straight zero-cost.
If units that can get summoned came in at a discounted value, then what's the point of playing a non-summoning army? Do armies that can hold units back off the board get a 50% discount too?
Right now, we've got only a few things that are able to 'instant drop'. Alarielle has it as a "once per game" usage of an ability she has and the rest is just kind of up in the air for the fine details of the mechanisms.
So wait, units that are summoned at a discount make playing non-summoning armies pointless, but units summoned for free don't? That doesn't make any sense. This is the most confusing thing you've ever said on the this board.
Units that are summoned at a discount and still require you to meet certain criteria would make non-summoning armies pointless, while units summoned for free wouldn't.
Why? Because of Command Points being present in the game now and how you acquire them. 1 for every 50 points difference between your army list and the points value of the match. If someone wanted to be able to, say, run a Maggotkin of Nurgle army and game the system? They'd be able to take Plaguebearers as Battleline, paying 50% less for them(in addition to any discount for taking them in large enough numbers!) since they can get summoned, and come in under the points value for the match to get more CPs than someone running a non-summoning army.
That would be in addition to them to meeting the conditions set forth for summoning units in the army and bring more crap in without having to pay points for it(or paying 50% less...not sure how you reliably plan for that since you can't actually really plan too easily for how many Contagion Points you get per turn).
Edit note--
I guess I could have been a bit more concise in my commentary, but it comes down to this:
Giving one person a way to have discounted forces(battleline no less!) when points are going to be a deciding factor as to how many of a finite resource you get is asking for trouble.
I'm going to assume you're being willfully obtuse on this one here. I'm pretty sure no one else is thinking that I'm suggesting reducing the base cost of summonable units. Moreover, reinforcement points, at least in this edition, count as points spent for determining triumphs. This should also not be a great leap.
Fafnir wrote: I'd be alright with summoning if units that were summoned came at a discounted value. Say, 50% of their normal unit value or something. It would still allow you to define the upper limit to the intended size of a game, and require players to actually plan and set aside resources for their use. But it would provide enough of a value to justify jumping through the hoops needed to get those models on the table in the first place (excluding instant drops, like Alarielle's). But it should absolutely not be straight zero-cost.
Fafnir wrote:
I'm going to assume you're being willfully obtuse on this one here. I'm pretty sure no one else is thinking that I'm suggesting reducing the base cost of summonable units. Moreover, reinforcement points, at least in this edition, count as points spent for determining triumphs. This should also not be a great leap.
You literally posted that you would be okay with summoning if units that were summoned came at a discounted value.
I mean, maybe I misunderstood what you're trying to say but I don't think your statement was too veiled.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) 
