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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
So apparently one of the guns belonged to his mother. But his mother is a convicted felon and prohibited from owning firearms, so the gun was illegally owned in the first place even before he took it.
So yeah, additional laws aren't going to solve anything here.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: So apparently one of the guns belonged to his mother. But his mother is a convicted felon and prohibited from owning firearms, so the gun was illegally owned in the first place even before he took it.
So yeah, additional laws aren't going to solve anything here.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Ahh yes. The article I read did not make it clear which they were talking about. Crappy article is crappy.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Prestor Jon wrote: We have an unhealthy society and it’s made worse by the level of notoriety and infamy that is granted to murder suicides. This is a problem throughout Western society, Australia was recently shocked by a murder suicide of an entire family. Here in the US we have more people, more guns, more drugs and contributing cultural differences that exacerbate the problem.
As with everything, bad things can happen anywhere but it's a question of how frequently. The recent murder suicide here in Australia was horrible, but it was the worse incident in Australia in 32 years. The US is clearly unique with the frequency with which these things happen. Here's the list of school shootings in different countries from 2000 until now. One of these is not like the others.
And people try to argue that other factors drive this, but in all those other areas the US simply isn't that unique. Yes, mental health in the US is bad, but its bad everywhere. The US has entirely normal rates of property and violent crimes, except murder, where the US is off the chart. The reason is that the US is unique in its gun culture, which then plays a unique role in exacerbating all the other problems.
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ZergSmasher wrote: The fact that they found bombs as well as guns should be eye-opening for all the anti-gun people. If we take away all the guns, criminals who can't get them on the black market will start using bombs, knives, clubs, cars and trucks, or even their bare hands to kill people. It's a mental health problem, not a gun problem.
When people can freely purchase a gun and begin shooting, there is almost no points of failure between committing to the massacre and carrying out the massacre. When the person has to engage in the black market, assemble bombs etc, there adds a whole lot of points of failure, both technical and legal, which can prevent the attempt. Which means more people are likely to fail or get caught, and more importantly a lot more people are likely to not begin the spiral in to the massacre.
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Grey Templar wrote: Besides, how easy it is or isn’t to buy a gun isn’t relevant since the guns were stolen from his dad.
Which pretty obviously is a thing that doesn't happen in a place where the Dad doesn't have guns. The obstinate denialism of the role of guns in shootings will never cease to amaze me.
You can be pro-gun all you want, but denying the extremely obvious effect of gun proliferation is just choosing to be wrong. I mean, I love pizza, but I don't pretend it is good for me.
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Prestor Jon wrote: There was a time when bombings were commonplace in the US. The bombings didn’t stop because we passed a bevy of new laws that made it impossible to build bombs they stopped happening because society evolved and people stopped wanting to commit bombings. The politics of the Weather Underground didn’t change but the methodology did.
It is true that methodology has changed. In the fairly abstract political causes of the 1970s bombs set off in public buildings at night were better suited, while in the personal rage attacks of today are better suited with firearms. However, you're wrong that bomb making is just as practical today. Regulation plays just as important a role as legislation, and there has been a tremendous amount of additional regulation placed on the sale and purchase of explosives.
And of course, the bigger issue is how much the personal rage attacks are not just facilitated by the presence of the gun, but actually trigger it in the first place.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/05/21 08:33:24
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Prestor Jon wrote: We have an unhealthy society and it’s made worse by the level of notoriety and infamy that is granted to murder suicides. This is a problem throughout Western society, Australia was recently shocked by a murder suicide of an entire family. Here in the US we have more people, more guns, more drugs and contributing cultural differences that exacerbate the problem.
As with everything, bad things can happen anywhere but it's a question of how frequently. The recent murder suicide here in Australia was horrible, but it was the worse incident in Australia in 32 years. The US is clearly unique with the frequency with which these things happen. Here's the list of school shootings in different countries from 2000 until now. One of these is not like the others.
And people try to argue that other factors drive this, but in all those other areas the US simply isn't that unique. Yes, mental health in the US is bad, but its bad everywhere. The US has entirely normal rates of property and violent crimes, except murder, where the US is off the chart. The reason is that the US is unique in its gun culture, which then plays a unique role in exacerbating all the other problems.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ZergSmasher wrote: The fact that they found bombs as well as guns should be eye-opening for all the anti-gun people. If we take away all the guns, criminals who can't get them on the black market will start using bombs, knives, clubs, cars and trucks, or even their bare hands to kill people. It's a mental health problem, not a gun problem.
When people can freely purchase a gun and begin shooting, there is almost no points of failure between committing to the massacre and carrying out the massacre. When the person has to engage in the black market, assemble bombs etc, there adds a whole lot of points of failure, both technical and legal, which can prevent the attempt. Which means more people are likely to fail or get caught, and more importantly a lot more people are likely to not begin the spiral in to the massacre.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grey Templar wrote: Besides, how easy it is or isn’t to buy a gun isn’t relevant since the guns were stolen from his dad.
Which pretty obviously is a thing that doesn't happen in a place where the Dad doesn't have guns. The obstinate denialism of the role of guns in shootings will never cease to amaze me.
You can be pro-gun all you want, but denying the extremely obvious effect of gun proliferation is just choosing to be wrong. I mean, I love pizza, but I don't pretend it is good for me.
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Prestor Jon wrote: There was a time when bombings were commonplace in the US. The bombings didn’t stop because we passed a bevy of new laws that made it impossible to build bombs they stopped happening because society evolved and people stopped wanting to commit bombings. The politics of the Weather Underground didn’t change but the methodology did.
It is true that methodology has changed. In the fairly abstract political causes of the 1970s bombs set off in public buildings at night were better suited, while in the personal rage attacks of today are better suited with firearms. However, you're wrong that bomb making is just as practical today. Regulation plays just as important a role as legislation, and there has been a tremendous amount of additional regulation placed on the sale and purchase of explosives.
And of course, the bigger issue is how much the personal rage attacks are not just facilitated by the presence of the gun, but actually trigger it in the first place.
The firearm is the trigger? Wow, that fork must have made you fat.
We have a high crime rate in the US. Even factoring out firearms related muders from the US and leavings firearm related deaths in the rest of Europe we still lead by a huge factor.
But continue to blame the gun. Not our culture.
Your school shooting number is artificially inflated by including non- firearms related incidents, Our press has an anti gun agenda, or at least the if it bleeds it leads fixation.
I put bomb denial right up there with global weather change denial. Lucky for us the press has not sensationalized bombers over the last two decades except in a few cases but the number of cases that don't make it to national news is higher than you could imagine.
Not sure I did this right. If I did what do you all think. Keep in mind this guy is an NRA spokesman.
What point are you trying to make? Are you disputing the validity of the contagion effect? It's widely accepted that suicide contagion effect is real and that's why it's reportedly differently now so why shouldn't we treat mass shootings in a similar manner?
ASPECTS OF NEWS COVERAGE THAT CAN PROMOTE SUICIDE CONTAGION
Clinicians, researchers, and other health professionals at the workshop agreed that to minimize the likelihood of suicide contagion, reporting should be concise and factual. Although scientific research in this area is not complete, workshop participants believed that the likelihood of suicide contagion may be increased by the following actions:
Presenting simplistic explanations for suicide.
Suicide is never the result of a single factor or event, but rather results from a complex interaction of many factors and usually involves a history of psychosocial problems (12). Public officials and the media should carefully explain that the final precipitating event was not the only cause of a given suicide. Most persons who have committed suicide have had a history of problems that may not have been acknowledged during the acute aftermath of the suicide. Cataloguing the problems that could have played a causative role in a suicide is not necessary, but acknowledgment of these problems is recommended.
Engaging in repetitive, ongoing, or excessive reporting of suicide in the news.
Repetitive and ongoing coverage, or prominent coverage, of a suicide tends to promote and maintain a preoccupation with suicide among at-risk persons, especially among persons 15-24 years of age. This preoccupation appears to be associated with suicide contagion. Information presented to the media should include the association between such coverage and the potential for suicide contagion. Public officials and media representatives should discuss alternative approaches for coverage of newsworthy suicide stories.
Providing sensational coverage of suicide.
By its nature, news coverage of a suicidal event tends to heighten the general public's preoccupation with suicide. This reaction is also believed to be associated with contagion and the development of suicide clusters. Public officials can help minimize sensationalism by limiting, as much as possible, morbid details in their public discussions of suicide. News media professionals should attempt to decrease the prominence of the news report and avoid the use of dramatic photographs related to the suicide (e.g., photographs of the funeral, the deceased person's bedroom, and the site of the suicide).
Reporting "how-to" descriptions of suicide.
Describing technical details about the method of suicide is undesirable. For example, reporting that a person died from carbon monoxide poisoning may not be harmful; however, providing details of the mechanism and procedures used to complete the suicide may facilitate imitation of the suicidal behavior by other at-risk persons.
Presenting suicide as a tool for accomplishing certain ends.
Suicide is usually a rare act of a troubled or depressed person. Presen- tation of suicide as a means of coping with personal problems (e.g., the break-up of a relationship or retaliation against parental discipline) may suggest suicide as a potential coping mechanism to at-risk persons. Although such factors often seem to trigger a suicidal act, other psychopathological problems are almost always involved. If suicide is presented as an effective means for accomplishing specific ends, it may be perceived by a potentially suicidal person as an attractive solution.
Glorifying suicide or persons who commit suicide.
News coverage is less likely to contribute to suicide contagion when reports of community expressions of grief (e.g., public eulogies, flying flags at half-mast, and erecting permanent public memorials) are minimized. Such actions may contribute to suicide contagion by suggesting to susceptible persons that society is honoring the suicidal behavior of the deceased person, rather than mourning the person's death.
Focusing on the suicide completer's positive characteristics.
Empathy for family and friends often leads to a focus on reporting the positive aspects of a suicide completer's life. For example, friends or teachers may be quoted as saying the deceased person "was a great kid" or "had a bright future," and they avoid mentioning the troubles and problems that the deceased person experienced. As a result, statements venerating the deceased person are often reported in the news. However, if the suicide completer's problems are not acknowledged in the presence of these laudatory statements, suicidal behavior may appear attractive to other at-risk persons -- especially those who rarely receive positive reinforcement for desirable behaviors.
CONCLUSION
In addition to recognizing the types of news coverage that can promote suicide contagion, the workshop participants strongly agreed that reporting of suicide can have several direct benefits. Specifically, community efforts to address this problem can be strengthened by news coverage that describes the help and support available in a community, explains how to identify persons at high risk for suicide, or presents information about risk factors for suicide. An ongoing dialogue between news media professionals and health and other public officials is the key to facilitating the reporting of this information.
Mental illness is not a communicable disease, but there’s a strong body of evidence that suicide is still contagious. Publicity surrounding a suicide has been repeatedly and definitively linked to a subsequent increase in suicide, especially among young people. Analysis suggests that at least 5 percent of youth suicides are influenced by contagion.
People who kill themselves are already vulnerable, but publicity around another suicide appears to make a difference as they are considering their options. The evidence suggests that suicide “outbreaks” and “clusters” are real phenomena; one death can set off others. There’s a particularly strong effect from celebrity suicides.
“Suicide contagion is real, which is why I’m concerned about it,” said Madelyn Gould, a professor of Epidemiology in Psychiatry at Columbia University, who has studied suicide contagion extensively.
Suicide is a substantial public health issue. Instances have risen over the past decade, according to a 2013 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study, particularly among the middle-aged. More people die in the U.S. by suicide than in car accidents. But focusing media attention on suicide — while well-intentioned — can lead to the tragic outcome of fueling more if such a national conversation is not handled in the right way.
A coalition of journalists, along with a group of suicide prevention groups, including the American Association of Suicidology and the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, have issued a set of recommendations on how to talk about suicide in the media. "Recommendations for Reporting on Suicide," which cites more than 50 research studies, notes that the amount, duration and prominence of suicide news coverage “can increase the likelihood of suicide in vulnerable individuals.” It can be especially harmful when the media goes into detail about how a person died, uses dramatic images or glamorizes the person’s death, according to the report.
The US has entirely normal rates of property and violent crimes, except murder, where the US is off the chart.
Off the chart as compared to?... Europe? Sure. Always have been. Even back when gun laws were roughly equivalent. Compared to some other countries with more restrictive laws on the books and fewer guns per X of population...say honduras...and no. It's not. You're a lot less likely to get dead even with our streets paved with assault weapons and high capacity ghost clips. On the other hand, if you want to restrict it to just FIREARMS homicide...well...we do like shooting each other more than other methods, but it doesn't really tell you anything beyond that.
It just says we're lazy, and don't have flamethrowers.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
tneva82 wrote: Why even report this as news? Americans decided they want these over alternatives so it's not even newsworthy.
There is actually a lot of evidence that points to covering it causing it to happen more.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
I've seen an article yesterday, one of the mothers of one of the first victims was saying how her daughter kept refusing/turning down increasingly demanding advances from the shooter, so I would be completely unsurprised to find out he was Incel as well, and this was more inspired by that BS than anything else.
tneva82 wrote: Why even report this as news? Americans decided they want these over alternatives so it's not even newsworthy.
There is actually a lot of evidence that points to covering it causing it to happen more.
Yeah, I recall one local news channel (the clip may still be on YouTube) where they had a well respected psychologist on who explained how putting the shooter's full name up, their picture and their death toll up acted as a perverse encouragement to future mass shooters. Many, in their twisted minds see it as a means of getting noticed. Of course the local news media isn't gonna change how they do things because that would detract from their revenues.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 21:27:17
I agree that guns do not shoot themselves but it does make it much easier to kill larger numbers, had he a knife he would not have killed as many.
There is no denying that.
Mental health in the U.S. obviously needs looked at and it is worrying that teens struggle to find the help they need.
Very glad guns are banned in the UK.
Ustrello wrote: Well he was a neo-nazi, or at least posted a lot of their usual gak on social media
How many neo-nazis wear bisexual pride pins and a hammer and sickle pin?
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Marxist artist wrote: I agree that guns do not shoot themselves but it does make it much easier to kill larger numbers, had he a knife he would not have killed as many.
There is no denying that.
Mental health in the U.S. obviously needs looked at and it is worrying that teens struggle to find the help they need.
Very glad guns are banned in the UK.
You can get pretty damn close, 9 killed in a knife attack in China recently.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Ustrello wrote: Well he was a neo-nazi, or at least posted a lot of their usual gak on social media
How many neo-nazis wear bisexual pride pins and a hammer and sickle pin?
vOv
He has more neo-nazi and white supremicist and trump gak posted than one hammer and sickle and one bi pride pin so that probably says more
link?
All I'm finding is that he is a typical teen and all his social media is rather benign. The only thing "Nazi" is the iron cross, which is not even nazi, it predates the nazi party.
And regarding his love for Trump, the only thing I have was from Heavy which stated he only followed trump on social media.
Age-restricted products are those goods and services for which there is a minimum legal age to buy them. Trading Standards has a duty to enforce the law relating to a number of age restricted products:
alcohol
tobacco products
explosives (such as fireworks, sparklers, party poppers and caps)
solvents
butane gas refills
offensive weapons (knives)
petroleum
lottery
aerosols
videos, DVDs, video games etc
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Ustrello wrote: Well he was a neo-nazi, or at least posted a lot of their usual gak on social media
How many neo-nazis wear bisexual pride pins and a hammer and sickle pin?
vOv
He has more neo-nazi and white supremicist and trump gak posted than one hammer and sickle and one bi pride pin so that probably says more
link?
All I'm finding is that he is a typical teen and all his social media is rather benign. The only thing "Nazi" is the iron cross, which is not even nazi, it predates the nazi party.
And regarding his love for Trump, the only thing I have was from Heavy which stated he only followed trump on social media.
Ustrello wrote: Well he was a neo-nazi, or at least posted a lot of their usual gak on social media
How many neo-nazis wear bisexual pride pins and a hammer and sickle pin?
vOv
He has more neo-nazi and white supremicist and trump gak posted than one hammer and sickle and one bi pride pin so that probably says more
link?
All I'm finding is that he is a typical teen and all his social media is rather benign. The only thing "Nazi" is the iron cross, which is not even nazi, it predates the nazi party.
And regarding his love for Trump, the only thing I have was from Heavy which stated he only followed trump on social media.
You literally need to type his name in and the articles are there
I literally did that. Only sources that I would trust or have recognition (nbc fox, cnn etc) stated he followed trump. I found nothing about him being some "literal nazi" or posting about trump.
Only sites I found that said such were blogs or some far left version of Britebart which provided no links or screen caps. It came down to he followed trump, gun pages wore and Iron cross. He's a trump loving nazi!
I've seen an article yesterday, one of the mothers of one of the first victims was saying how her daughter kept refusing/turning down increasingly demanding advances from the shooter, so I would be completely unsurprised to find out he was Incel as well, and this was more inspired by that BS than anything else.
tneva82 wrote: Why even report this as news? Americans decided they want these over alternatives so it's not even newsworthy.
There is actually a lot of evidence that points to covering it causing it to happen more.
Yeah, I recall one local news channel (the clip may still be on YouTube) where they had a well respected psychologist on who explained how putting the shooter's full name up, their picture and their death toll up acted as a perverse encouragement to future mass shooters. Many, in their twisted minds see it as a means of getting noticed. Of course the local news media isn't gonna change how they do things because that would detract from their revenues.
Honestly with crimes like this - you really want to take them alive. Scan their brains - find out the feth is going on in there. Or at least talk to them - might learn something valuable. I really doubt this has a political angle - when I was 17 all I cared about was trying to get tail - I didn't give a dang about politics.
I wonder - this day and age is it even possible to keep the shooters name hidden from the public? If a link is made (I think it's already been made) that releasing a shooters name after a mass shooting is creating a public health concern - I think that freedom of speech and press can be restricted. With the amount of media power your average person has though - I don't think it could really be stopped.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 23:26:55
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Ustrello wrote: Well he was a neo-nazi, or at least posted a lot of their usual gak on social media
How many neo-nazis wear bisexual pride pins and a hammer and sickle pin?
vOv
He has more neo-nazi and white supremicist and trump gak posted than one hammer and sickle and one bi pride pin so that probably says more
Plus, if you look at the link I uploaded, it took all of 20 minutes for fake profiles to start popping up showing (in real life) non-existent links to Antifa and Pride, etc. etc. Meanwhile, his real profile was loaded with the pro-trump, neo-nazi and hard-right BS that has become so ridiculously common with these types of shooters.
Ustrello wrote: Well he was a neo-nazi, or at least posted a lot of their usual gak on social media
How many neo-nazis wear bisexual pride pins and a hammer and sickle pin?
vOv
He has more neo-nazi and white supremicist and trump gak posted than one hammer and sickle and one bi pride pin so that probably says more
Plus, if you look at the link I uploaded, it took all of 20 minutes for fake profiles to start popping up showing (in real life) non-existent links to Antifa and Pride, etc. etc. Meanwhile, his real profile was loaded with the pro-trump, neo-nazi and hard-right BS that has become so ridiculously common with these types of shooters.
How is it common? Trump, neo nazis and the alt right had nothing to do with Columbine, Virginia Tech, Aurora, Fort Hood, The Pulse, San Bernardino, Sandy Hook or Las Vegas.
Ustrello wrote: Well he was a neo-nazi, or at least posted a lot of their usual gak on social media
How many neo-nazis wear bisexual pride pins and a hammer and sickle pin?
vOv
He has more neo-nazi and white supremicist and trump gak posted than one hammer and sickle and one bi pride pin so that probably says more
Plus, if you look at the link I uploaded, it took all of 20 minutes for fake profiles to start popping up showing (in real life) non-existent links to Antifa and Pride, etc. etc. Meanwhile, his real profile was loaded with the pro-trump, neo-nazi and hard-right BS that has become so ridiculously common with these types of shooters.
While Fake News™ is a problem surrounding shootings, quickly trying to make the shooter as some dirty antifa commie or a alt-right literal nazi, I'm not seeing any credible source this guy was any type of neo-nazi, he had an iron cross, sure but also had a sickle and hammer. If I can take anything from that, he is some edgy teenager. I'm not seeing anything in your link (unless there is another one I'm missing) stating he was a neo-nazi or die hard Trump supporter. If there was so a great link to Nazism and the shooter it would have been plastered everywhere. The closes I can come up with on any legitimate site is his iron cross, liking gun pages and following Trump.
The Pride pin, from what I can tell is real, what is fake, is the photo with him wearing it is associated to fake social media accounts connecting him with ANTIFA.
As for all these school shooters being yuge™ Trump supporters, would you really call it a trend at this point? Nikolas Cruz wore a MAGA hat in a profile pic. Now you may have this kid who might be a Trump supporter. That's what... 2?
Police are going through his journals and computer. Maybe he is King Nazi and has an alter with a photo of Trump surrounded by candles. More than likely you will find a gak load of porn and some embarassing messages sent online.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 01:49:18
Why can't people accept that America needs both stronger gun control laws, needs to investigate possible shooters seriously, and needs to address the toxic culture that is creating these monsters? They are repeatedly misogynistic and mentally ill. Can no one see a pattern here that needs to be addressed?
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
trexmeyer wrote: Why can't people accept that America needs both stronger gun control laws, needs to investigate possible shooters seriously, and needs to address the toxic culture that is creating these monsters? They are repeatedly misogynistic and mentally ill. Can no one see a pattern here that needs to be addressed?
