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Karol wrote:
also the limit is just to psychic powers, magic spells or rune casting is allowed.

I don't even...

So certain armies get their powers because reasons but the rest don't?

That is just passive aggressive cheating right there.

To all: Heed the Prognosticars (the +1 invuln stratagem) can only be used on Characters. No using it to buff your Termies or Strike Squads.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Time to find a new store. That is fething absurd. One of the dumbest rules i've ever seen. Holy gak.

...They're playing a tutorial escalation league set up to introduce new mechanics slowly rather than dumping everything in from day one.

This is a terrible approach to teaching people the game, and puts this specific player at a colossal disadvantage. Is this how you'd teach someone the game? "Hey let's play, you can't use your stuff, oh and P.S., i'm going to slaughter you repeatedly and throw your gak in a bag"

Look at his posts, he's getting crushed by solid stuff. Flying Alaitoc, Roboute & retinue (ravens or fire raptors, either case he's got no answer), Magnus and Daemons, come on. A tutorial league wouldn't feature ANY of those things.

This is a toxic sounding environment (people throwing his minis in his bag, lolwut?) where he's being handicapped and summarily crushed.

I feel for this guy if this is his only place to play. Chess.com is free, by the way.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Karol wrote:
also the limit is just to psychic powers, magic spells or rune casting is allowed.

I don't even...

So certain armies get their powers because reasons but the rest don't?

That is just passive aggressive cheating right there.

Yes, and don't ask me why. I think that it maybe because psychic powers are too powerful. I actually never bothered to ask, was just told I can't use them, and that was it.

This is a terrible approach to teaching people the game, and puts this specific player at a colossal disadvantage.

No one here is teaching other people to play, the main rule is that you have to get an army and then you can play like anyone else. Most people take the armies they see online, which they can afford of course, and which have no Forger World units in them. Plus most of the time it felt that stats and shoting mattered more then psychic powers, but I do know this a noobs point of view. For example when I played vs the demon player it never felt as if I was losing to him, because of psychic powers, but because he had so many re-rolls, and shots going through saves, and stats that were mind blowing high. Magnus killed my dreadknight and 10 termintors alone. It did take him 2 rounds, but he took 1 wound from them, and I think that one magnus costs fewer points then 10 termintors and a dreadknight.

So you can’t prox falchions but there is an houserule with so high impact on the game? That’s crazy.

Yeah mate I would t get disheartened that your army is unplayably bad (it’s a bit behind the competitive power curve but it still work for a casual game) or that you yourself are a bad player. You’re in an environment where I would honestly begin to question if people are intentionally trying to bully you.

No psychic powers it patently unfair. It’s like telling a Tau players ‘we don’t use the shooting phase in this league.’ But to go to the extent of you can’t use psychic powers but you can use rune powers sounds like targeted exclusion.

Just request that if you’re denied a key phase for your army, they have to skip something equally key.


So no Shooting Phase for Tau. No Movement Phase for Eldar. No Fight Phase for Daemons.

When you opponent complains this is unfair, tell them you know, as that’s what they’ve been doing to you every game thus far! Then say “shall we just use all the Phases and play the game?”

The attempted distinction between Eldar psychic powers and others is hilarious. Just straight-up cheating.

Yea. Remember your models cost more points partly because EVERY single one of them is a psycher. Not only that Eldar and Daemons have generally stronger psychic phases even still.

Not letting you use your powers is blatant favoritism and simply insane. I'm especially surprised a tournament player supports these patently insane house rules because I guarantee no event he has ever gone to bans "psychic" but allows "Magic". Newsflash, magic = psychic in 40k. Nobody casts real magic like Dwellers Below anymore!

As for the match against daemons... your army all has a smite that deals 3 mortal wounds to daemons. Every single unit. And it casts on a 5. Surely you can see how that would have helped!

It's just blatant favoritism and handicapping your army

I would consider building your own table if you have the space and skills to do so.

You should be able to build a decent table for less then a couple 40k kits

Then it's just a matter of getting people to go to your place to play. Where you can actually use your army fully

(In response to a particular chain of posts)

As horrible as it might sound, I'd either get out of the hobby altogether if you have no-one else to play with and/or nowhere else to go, or start seeking out alternative ways to scratch your miniature wargaming itch.

The reason I suggest this is because you are clearly in a toxic environment, and regardless of how much value you place on your models and games, it's not worth the potentially life-altering experience it can and will have on you, especially as it seems like you are still young.

Being in that type of situation is unhealthy for your development and your emotional well being, and honestly not worth the trouble. Wargaming is great, but when you're in a clearly toxic situation with people who are taking you for granted and performing acts that can and will have a damaging effect on you as a person, I'm of the opinion that it really isn't worth it...especially if there's a potential for physical bullying and teacher bias to get involved.

I'm really damned sorry to hear about your situation; while selfish and hostile individuals exist in a lot of places, that they've taken over one of your primary avenues of social interaction and entertainment is absolutely horrible, especially as they seem to be passively intimidating you. Don't give them the satisfaction, try to find an alternative that you enjoy is the best advice I can give here, and I really wish I didn't have to say that. Good luck with whatever you decide!

Ok, I think I am going to quit then. I played 4 more games today and the more I play the more I think the army does not work at all. The first few games were ok. Today I played again vs demons, marines and eldar again. Got tabled each time.
Also who the F thought it is a good idea for demons to return units when playing vs GK? I was losing, but made myself a personal objectives to take a holy relic on the table. Lost almost all of my army trying to do it, or what was left of it. I kill the last of 20 plague bearers, and lo and behold he just brings them back in and smilles at me telling me he has enough command points to do it three more times.
I won't sell the army, don't know if anyone would want to buy it here anyway, and hope for either a new edition or a GK codex.

Question- Did they let you use your psker powers? If not then it's not only that GK are weak more of it is due to you not being able to use your army the way you are supposed to use it.

GK need soup just to stop that stratagem, unfortunately. In my last team game, we actually had the BA engage demons.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Question- Did they let you use your psker powers? If not then it's not only that GK are weak more of it is due to you not being able to use your army the way you are supposed to use it.

I said I was going to use them. In the end vs eldar I was stoped or out of range all the time. VS demons I slamed smites in to that unit of plague bearers and a unclean one sitting on the objective, only my opponent returned the demons.

The first marine list was a soup, it had custodes bike captins, some dark angels and a buttload of IG. Game was really brutal, but I think a lot of my loses came from not knowing what the custodes do, with their movments durning my turn etc. Also hellblasters hurt terminators.

The second space marine game was very interesting, he had a lot of bikes and razorbacks, he also some IG dudes in IG type razorbacks. Very fast moving army, He redeployed ultra fast after my termintors droping down, he was also very good and setting up the objectives and lured me with his army. So in the end I had my whole army on one objective when he took the other 3, while taking pot shots at me.

Aside from the Daemons did you feel like you had a chance while using all of your army's abilities? If you did then just keep at it. GK are always going to have an uphill battle until they're redone.

Also when using psyker powers don't forget that GK get a +1 to all the rolls so it's not easy for other people to deny our powers. If you want to extend the range of the smites turn 1 of your terminators into a brother captain. He doubles the range of our smites (which also means it's harder for your opponent to be within 24" of the caster).

Next December in the CA GK should have a point reduction and some rules improved. Maybe you can do like some of us. Wait.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Aside from the Daemons did you feel like you had a chance while using all of your army's abilities? If you did then just keep at it. GK are always going to have an uphill battle until they're redone.

Also when using psyker powers don't forget that GK get a +1 to all the rolls so it's not easy for other people to deny our powers. If you want to extend the range of the smites turn 1 of your terminators into a brother captain. He doubles the range of our smites (which also means it's harder for your opponent to be within 24" of the caster).

Vs eldar I didn't cast any spells, and he shot most of my army off the table end of turn 2. Then it was just my deep strike stuff, that landed killed one unit and then got dog piled with shoting and spells.

Vs the soup marine, first game I didn't know what custodes do, so the game ended very fast. I moved he countered charged, then charged again in his turn, while everything else he had kept shoting, while taking objectives.

Vs the fast moving marine, he baited me on to one objective with his whole army, and then he zoomed to the other side of the table. And I couldn't reach him with my terminators, because they kept being shot at by 3 units of hellblaster armed primaris.

Vs demons I didn't get to cast any powers, but he was more or less playing his own game. End of turn 2 he was 17 objective points ahead of me, so I knew I would lose. He told me we play one more turn, so I decided to take one objective and he just respawned his dudes on it and told me he can do it as many times as he has command points, and he had like 5-6 left over.

I think I did the most vs the fast moving marine army, because I took an objective in that game and actually got to shot and cast spells.

I mean even with psychic powers he's not winning those games. Another person picks Grey Knights and ends up quitting. Par for the course, seen it a bunch of times now.

If you really want to give it another try, see if people are up for a 2v2 game, or something similar. The dynamic changes when it's not head-to-head.

 Marmatag wrote:
I mean even with psychic powers he's not winning those games. Another person picks Grey Knights and ends up quitting. Par for the course, seen it a bunch of times now.

am I wrong, is was the reason for him quitting more to do with because he's in a toxic environment with people physically intimidating him, damaging his models, and not letting him play by the rules?

Not really, no one damged my models. And store rules are store rules, am not going to argue with them Plus I was able to play games with psychic abilities, they just don't count for the event points, which in hindsight I should focus more on. If I don't get at least 30 per month, I won't get the entry prize, and now after people played against my army no one wants to play a league game against me.

I feel bad about the army, becaus I thought that not being the best ment something else. It also seems like GW is making other knight or knight looking armies that look the same, but have better rules, and the models themselfs are metal and not plastic and are really hard to do something with. My friend who sold me the GK, showed me how his space marine models look like, and they are all plastic and come with a bucket load of weapons for free. While a resin thunderhammer costs almost 2$ and you have to buy at least 5.

The problem is the army, you are not so lucky, since you bought the worst army of the edition, but the problem is also your local store.
I can understand that you don't want to argue with them, but this isn't the way to play. Every rules, in particular in matched play, must to be used, and this kind of limits are fool.
Moreover your particular army is less than average even for GK. Using 10 termy is a waste of points.

According to this, probably you can try to play with more fair people, but my advice is keep on play to better understand rules and other people's army (in order to avoid errors like against custodes) and waiting for CA. After CA we should have a more balanced, and maybe competitive army.

Karol wrote:

I feel bad about the army

Pretty much everyone does.

I find stories like this almost universally turn out to be ridiculously exaggerated or just plain fabricated, but on the off chance what you said is true, just quit. If every single player you can possibly find truly wants to ruin the game for you, then either find your voice and say you play by the rules, or simply find something else to do. First you claimed you were upset he damaged your models and were too scared to say something because he's "bigger than you", but now you're saying that never happened? I get the feeling someone is just enjoying a bit of a pity party, and if not, well you've gotten all the advice you should need on where to go from here

No I was scared he could damge them, if I don't do it myself fast. That is not the same, He just took 2 of my models and dumped them in to my bag. And yeah I am not going to argue with a guy that is double my weight and 10 years old, he would reap me a new one, if I tried anything.

As playing by the rules, I thought I was. I was told here the first time, that I could always use psychic powers and not just have to ask if it is ok. After that in all non summer event games, I did try to cast stuff. It is hard to follow all the rules, when you start, half the stuff I learn is learned through going, I didn't know you could do that etc.

And I don't ask for pity, first no one is going to give me money from that far away. The advice how to set up units were very helpful, and I am thankful for those.

I'm sad that my 6k of painted grey noodles are shelved indefinitely, but I have very little faith that CA will fix anything. I bet taking another 2 points off our terminators and making vortex of doom casting level 7 won't exactly do much.

Vortex is overrate in my opinion. It target the nearest MODEL not UNIT. This means that it is very unlikely that every time it is casted it can target more that one unit. Moreover you can't use it in cc because it could kill your models. Give it a casting level of 7 would change nothing.

We need more and deeper changes. Even without change completely codex (that would be the real fix) we need:
deep point drop for almost all our units (except apothecary and GMDK maybe, but in comparison with shield captain on jetbike we could deserve a point drop also for him), the possibility to use Librarius discipline and/or add 6 powers to sanctic (using the 5 ed. powers as base), IC with full smite, halve the tech marine cost, add to a brother captain the reroll wound of 1 rule, add 1 attack and double the aura range for purifiers, that should also have an AOE effect, redesign nemesis weapons (i.e. nemesis sword add 1 to invuln like in 5ed) and in particular redesign special weapons. Psycannon should became antitank for instance.
Moreover we need the third lost page of stratagem and change some of them. An IK stratagem allow ALL the imperial stubber of all IKs in the army to improve the VP of -1. For all the game.
Please give us back Psybolt. 3 CP all the army have psybolt for the whole game.
They have to rewrite all traits and relic because most of all suck.

It's definitely one of those Codices where you might as well only have one choice as a Warlord trait because the other ones are just that bad or mediocre.

 Jaxler wrote:
I'm sad that my 6k of painted grey noodles are shelved indefinitely, but I have very little faith that CA will fix anything. I bet taking another 2 points off our terminators and making vortex of doom casting level 7 won't exactly do much.

Actually taking 2 points off of the terminators would bring them back down to where they were in the index. Ironically. Yes, Grey Knight terminators were slightly nerfed with the codex, believe it or not.

And Vortex is the worst spell in the game. It's a bad smite that can hurt your dudes.

Does GW ever explain why they do changes like that? Is it just in house playtesting or do they out source it?