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To me their isn't incentive to kill other players, you gain nothing, except their junk... so killing people who are farming for high end stuff. I dont think there will be one shots, with damage being reduced if the fight isn't reciprocated. So said farmer killer is going to have to work at it. Then you re-spawn and attack them because they are wanted (see where they are) and maybe get your stuff back.

The trolls and A hats, are where Beth doesn't have enough to stop them. they say you cant camp 76, but you can camp any location, especially where there is good loot, or a raid area. Sitting outside of your camp, waiting until after a trade to kill you, and the list goes on.

They keep saying that you might only see 1 other player when you play per session, but thats closed testing. I'm still going to get the game, only because its fallout.

For those not following that closely, the embargo from the press event Bethesda put on last week ends today, so over the next few hours there should be plenty of actual gameplay, overviews ect going up.

Looking forward to seeing a good chunk of the gameplay, see what the pacing, gameplay look, mechanical changes look like.

Ugh. Its FO4 with all the 'complexity' ripped out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjl_9Sl0wBk

Highlights:
level 2 before leaving the vault. All stats start at 1, with an increase each level

Pushing 'interact' on the vault robots does... nothing.

A few random audio logs provide some vague context in a very empty world.

Bobbleheads give temporary buffs for an hour

Monsters have explicit levels- around 10:00 he's fighting 'level 5 super mutants,' while level 4. They don't seem any more or less threatening than the ghouls.

There is also level 10s a minute later, but they die quickly to the group.

Region map 12:00. Looks like a cheesy tourist map, with major landmarks.

Despite the other people running around, loot and scavenging seems to be individual. Which is good but weird.

PVP is disabled until level 5


They run into level 14 'mole miners' later (17:00), levels seem to mean nothing at all.
I can only assume the group is on Discord or something, because they don't interact in game in any way at all after an early 'thumbs up' exchange.

Level 59 guy in power armor roof hopping around 19:00, the jumping looks really terrible and the ensuing PVP goes exactly the way you'd expect.


Huh. Weird. Around 26:00 they've found a resort that isn't irradiated or ruined at all. Perfectly healthy non-irradiated wolves and completely painted, functional robots are running around.
But despite being full of robots... its empty of content and nothing happens.

Radio music is notably recycled from previous titles.

----
Eh. There are a couple new monster models and a whole lot of nothing.

Voss wrote:

Huh. Weird. Around 26:00 they've found a resort that isn't irradiated or ruined at all. Perfectly healthy non-irradiated wolves and completely painted, functional robots are running around.
But despite being full of robots... its empty of content and nothing happens.

Well, the nukes are obviously duds - just create pretty light shows. After all at the end you can watch a nuclear explosion without burning your retina out, there's *no* blastwave - trees are quite happily standing upright. I would question whether the developers have actually ever witnessed videos of nuclear test explosions.

It does seem rather light on gripping content though. I had high hopes but there doesn't appear to be much of a challenge. Death means nothing other than an inconvenience. Base building (which lets face it is a mechanism to protect your stuff) has little purpose (especially with prevalent facilities to make stuff scattered around anyway). As it stands it appears that it's an online chat room based in the Fallout universe and I wonder what the long term viability of this game will be.

Perhaps most telling is the lack of responses to this post of the videos were released. Think I will watch the console beta gameplay when it comes out in two weeks and make a (better?) judgement on the nearly complete game.

Yeah, I'm actually confused about base building. When you die, you only seem to drop crafting junk (wood, steel, etc). You keep weapons and armor and health items.

There are crafting stations to improve weapons and whatnot elsewhere, so... basically you lose nothing. Once you get the good stuff, all you need is materials for repairs. You can't seem to ever 'miss out' on loot, so... whatever.


A lot of the complaints I'm seeing revolve around a lot of performance and texture issues. As well as lag spikes and weapon feedback mismatches (gunshots and impacts happening late or not at all) But apparently they took these folks to a resort in WV and plunked them on Xboxes, so... no idea what it looks like on a PC.


Later in this video there are some thoughts on PVP and AI, and the problems with both (17:00 onwards, or thereabouts).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7wDfWVlBWg

To be honest, I like everything I've seen thus far. The world looks great and varied, the mechanical tweaks make a lot of sense (real time VATS looks as good as it could be and I like the new progression a lot), crafting looks even more interesting than FO4s, new enemies look fun.

Even my big worry (the lack of NPCs) is kind of belayed, as while they're not alive, the fact you can still pick up quests and tidbits from the plentiful holotapes and notes fills exactly the same role without the risk of some git coming in and shooting the questgiver dead, ruining the fun for everyone else. It's a compromise, but a neat one.

As for the more intact areas, it's been suggested that West Virginia does not take a nuke directly, hence the presence of non-mutated creatures and a more intact infrastructure. Which, of course, doesn't make sense from a real-world PoV but this is a game so let's cut it some slack, it's not like Fallout has ever dealt with radiation/nukes anywhere near 'realistically'. It holds some water anyway, the whole reason the real bunker was built there at Greenbriars is because it was assumed the region would be a low-priority target.

Ultimately, it looks fun, which is all I really ask. The things I liked from FO4 are still there in spades, and the multiplayer aspect honestly doesn't seem that intrusive. It's quite busy in the footage that's out there, but once people have more than a guided 3 hours to play with, I imagine the players will spread out an awful lot more.

Here's a decent dive into some of the new mechanics and systems:
https://youtu.be/MjIwdQYIpGg

So it's looking like the BoS is getting retconned to ignore fallout 1 and 2's timeline. There was a note suggesting the BoS hands the player a quest despite that fact the BoS didn't emerge until 2150ish or get vertibirds until 2220ish iirc

 Wolfblade wrote:
So it's looking like the BoS is getting retconned to ignore fallout 1 and 2's timeline. There was a note suggesting the BoS hands the player a quest despite that fact the BoS didn't emerge until 2150ish or get vertibirds until 2220ish iirc

Yeah, I saw another bit where someone mentioned ghouls going off to the sanctuary of Underworld, and it seems really early for that (Underworld was founded around 2230) and odd, since there are zero humans to make ghouls feel unsafe, which was the premise of the place.

Since we have 76 dated to 2102, thats... absurdly early. Good job Bethesda on failing on the timeline of your own creations.


---
Honestly, I still find the premise of the game confusing. Ignoring game based respawn mechanics (which are genre conceit I'll accept for progression), a population comes out of a Vault after an Apocalypse and instead of setting up a town and recreating civilization in the immediate vicinity of all their supplies, clean water and power sources, they scatter to the winds and start killing each other, the people they've known and lived with for years, for no reason?

It'd be one thing if it were raider groups competing for limited supplies, but reasonably this should be a co-op town building game, with some exploration and scavenging aspects and a bit of gunplay.

immediate vicinity of all their supplies, clean water and power sources

They don't have any of that. The experiment of Vault 76 was to force all the Dwellers out into the wasteland to fend for themselves and achieve the mission that Vault Tec set for them. And as such, the water and power systems of Vault 76 are programmed to shut down within a specified time frame after the Vault opens to force the Vault Dwellers to leave. The only supplies are whatever they can carry with them.

They don't have access to the Vault after they leave.

See Oxhorn's livestreams, he went through all the Lore (Terminals) inside Vault 76.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

immediate vicinity of all their supplies, clean water and power sources

They don't have any of that. The experiment of Vault 76 was to force all the Dwellers out into the wasteland to fend for themselves and achieve the mission that Vault Tec set for them. And as such, the water and power systems of Vault 76 are programmed to shut down within a specified time frame after the Vault opens to force the Vault Dwellers to leave. The only supplies are whatever they can carry with them.

They don't have access to the Vault after they leave.

See Oxhorn's livestreams, he went through all the Lore (Terminals) inside Vault 76.

Nah. It's an alternative version of the plans for Vault 112 but testing what happens when people are encouraged to go out and pillage and murder.

This would explain why all the story and background is messed up.

You travel the world and at the end of the game the Overseer tells you it has been just a
.
.
.
.
.
DREAM!

After which point everyone throws their controller on the floor in disgust. Or perhaps just resets the simulation and you get to start all over again...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

immediate vicinity of all their supplies, clean water and power sources

They don't have any of that. The experiment of Vault 76 was to force all the Dwellers out into the wasteland to fend for themselves and achieve the mission that Vault Tec set for them. And as such, the water and power systems of Vault 76 are programmed to shut down within a specified time frame after the Vault opens to force the Vault Dwellers to leave. The only supplies are whatever they can carry with them.

They don't have access to the Vault after they leave.

See Oxhorn's livestreams, he went through all the Lore (Terminals) inside Vault 76.

So, working together with your friends and family and getting infrastructure going is even more important? Great.

The point remains, I can see ways of doing Battle Royal Fallout, but that would involve teams of raiders, ghouls, and normals pitted against each other over too few resources, not normal human settlers who all know each other in a relatively untouched West Virginia (there are un-mutated animals, green plants and for example, raspberries, not 'mutfruits'), with enough threats that staying together and functioning as a society is still a super great idea.

That all of the local human population is dead or gone is outright baffling, given the condition of several areas that were shown off.

I'm getting destiny feels from hearing about weekly events, and the way the leveling system works. The game isn't finished, so maybe the issues will get fixed.

As far as the lore goes, I think its just out the window... Beth cant really make a good story. All the fallouts make you think you are in control but you are not, they are a linear hybrid open world games. But I'm still wondering the Mohave lol. Am I going to get it, yes, will it be the Fallout game that I want no, but I will hope there will be another in the future that takes a new turn, maybe to another country.

I have over 540 hours now on F4. I love settlement buliding and hate other people in my games so I can see that increase rather than getting on this new game.

But for the sake of people looking forward to it, I hope it does turn out alright.

I havent followed this at all. Its basically Fallout 3/4 but online with multiplayer and PvP added in?

 Ratius wrote:
I havent followed this at all. Its basically Fallout 3/4 but online with multiplayer and PvP added in?

By and large, yes. The biggest changes are:

- Much bigger map than any of the others
- Earlier in the timeline (2102)
- Multiplayer with optional co-op and/or PvP (which can be either disabled or at least mitigated, it's not yet clear exactly what the Pacifist mode does)
- Bigger focus on crafting, building, scavenging
- 'Survival mode' is always on but it's a lot more lenient than FO4's
- Real-time VATS
- Overhauled progression system
- No NPCs, though there's still plenty of notes/holotapes/terminals/robots to get quests and info from

Another issue I noticed regarding timeline issues are the presence of super mutants. As far as I remember, they didn't show up until much later, when the master was created. Even in exceptions like their presence in FO4, they were created by the Institute with FEV, so unless they're shoehorning another FEV experiment vault again, it's very weird for the "past" to be so similar to the future.

 Paradigm wrote:

- No NPCs, though there's still plenty of notes/holotapes/terminals/robots to get quests and info from

I dunno, this one seems weird. Wandering around an empty world.

I had a feeling I was going to skip Fallout '76, and watching several of those game play videos convinced me that was the correct decision. I love Fallout 4 (I'm not some Obsidian purist) but the idea of a massive, empty world with no NPCs or storyline to interact with doesn't appeal to me.

Oh, there's story and stuff supposedly, it's just all handled through notes. There are just no friendly NPCs (such as vendors)

The flip side of that is that while a lot of the narrative is being carried by environmental/emergent storytelling, that is what Bethesda are consistently great at. Some of the most interesting Fallout locations (for instance, most of the Vaults) reveal their history through notes, holotapes, terminals, little vignettes ect, and they have a track record of creating great atmosphere through those.

It'll definitely be a more lonely world without human NPCs, but then Fallout has always been a very lonely experience in one way or another. Bethesda's worlds are at their best when you just go off the beaten track in a random direction searching for a story, and 76 does seem to offer plenty of that.

It kind of makes sense from another angle as well; unlike New Vegas, Megaton or Diamond City, the apocalypse is still fresh and civilisation hasn't bounced back to something resembling normal so there aren't these big hubs of trade or sanctuary yet. We see factions in the game that tried, such as The Responders, but it's apparent from the fact they're all dead that their efforts failed; the world was still too hostile and dangerous.

 Paradigm wrote:

It kind of makes sense from another angle as well; unlike New Vegas, Megaton or Diamond City, the apocalypse is still fresh and civilisation hasn't bounced back to something resembling normal so there aren't these big hubs of trade or sanctuary yet. We see factions in the game that tried, such as The Responders, but it's apparent from the fact they're all dead that their efforts failed; the world was still too hostile and dangerous.

Which doesn't fit at all with how lush and alive the world of '76 looks. I can buy that West Virginia wasn't hit directly by any nukes, thus leaving it relatively untouched. I cannot buy that such an area would then be devoid of any settlements at all. If active perpetual warzones like DC and Boston can have civilizations then a comparative paradise like WV should have several. Or several dozen. And I don't buy that the survivors couldn't handle the dangers of the post war world. This is rural WV we're talking about. This is prepper country. These people hunt. These people fish. They know how to survive without scavenging 200 year old irradiated Salisbury steak and they've already drawn up plans on how to stay alive after the bombs fall. IF DC and Boston, two cities with factions actively trying to exterminate all life have managed to produce viable settlements (Rivet City and Diamond City) then WV should be teeming with little survivor communities.

squidhills wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

It kind of makes sense from another angle as well; unlike New Vegas, Megaton or Diamond City, the apocalypse is still fresh and civilisation hasn't bounced back to something resembling normal so there aren't these big hubs of trade or sanctuary yet. We see factions in the game that tried, such as The Responders, but it's apparent from the fact they're all dead that their efforts failed; the world was still too hostile and dangerous.

Which doesn't fit at all with how lush and alive the world of '76 looks. I can buy that West Virginia wasn't hit directly by any nukes, thus leaving it relatively untouched. I cannot buy that such an area would then be devoid of any settlements at all. If active perpetual warzones like DC and Boston can have civilizations then a comparative paradise like WV should have several. Or several dozen. And I don't buy that the survivors couldn't handle the dangers of the post war world. This is rural WV we're talking about. This is prepper country. These people hunt. These people fish. They know how to survive without scavenging 200 year old irradiated Salisbury steak and they've already drawn up plans on how to stay alive after the bombs fall. IF DC and Boston, two cities with factions actively trying to exterminate all life have managed to produce viable settlements (Rivet City and Diamond City) then WV should be teeming with little survivor communities.

Totally agree. I can see a lot of the large towns collapsing, but there are fresh raspberries on the bush and completely normal and un-irradiated wolves roaming about. There were survivalists and descendents within spitting distance of the big target of Washington in Fallout 3 (and Boston in 4), there would be a far higher percentage up in West Virginia. Not just absolute legions of new ghouls in completely unirradiated areas (which seems to be the actual case in game)

 Grimskul wrote:
Another issue I noticed regarding timeline issues are the presence of super mutants. As far as I remember, they didn't show up until much later, when the master was created. Even in exceptions like their presence in FO4, they were created by the Institute with FEV, so unless they're shoehorning another FEV experiment vault again, it's very weird for the "past" to be so similar to the future.

Zenimax gave up on canon continuity after buying the license, so a silly little thing like that's beneath their radar.

Just got finished participating in the Stress Test. I really like it. Initially, I was very worried as I do not like online games, It really didn't feel all that much like an online game and the other players were pretty unobtrusive. In Fallout 4 the joy for me was going toward a quest marker and being distracted to the point of completing a bunch of other quests by the time I got to the initial one. The biggest frustration in Fallout 4 was having to constantly jump to settlements to defend them in the middle of quests. I finished up thinking that my favorite part was intact and the biggest frustration removed. On the negative side, I do miss the companions a little bit and the still not sold on the the game tracking hunger and thirst.

What was the difficulty like in terms of how far above your own level an enemy could be before you had trouble?

I saw a very interesting suggestion that some aspects of the game could have been toned down for the press events the other week--and according to several people who went, there were a good number of attendees who had little idea what Fallout even was, so it's a reasonable theory--as it was fairly easy for players versed in Fallout, especially F4, to tackle enemies 10-15 levels higher than themselves, by themselves. Worth seeing if that still stood up in the stress test.

---

As for worries about the lore... there are people far more knowledgeable about the Fallout universe than me who've convincingly pointed out how swathes of lore criticisms are unfounded and pretty knee-jerk-y.

The BoS one springs to mind, with many people--I should note, 'people' in a very broad, internet-ranging sense, with no direct references to anyone in this thread--rabidly holding a belief that the BoS, an organisation whose founders can be placed in Lost Hills in 2077, cannot possibly exist in the world until 2134, because that's when we first know objectively they exist. Except not really. We know a faction within them emerged at that point. We also know the Brotherhood are very fractious, with many factional splits and desertions--hell, that's what the 2134 faction did; they left Lost Hills in a temper tantrum because they had an expedition disallowed. There's no reason why, in the 57 years between 2077 and 2134, the Brotherhood collectively sat on their tin bums, suggestively polishing laser rifles until one of them decided they wanted to go out, got denied, and left in a huff with his mates, and thus the idea of the Outside was born.

If anything, the first objective "Brotherhood" info we know being that a group decided to splinter off after taking a decision poorly should reinforce the idea that the Brotherhood in some form could turn up in odd places. All it would've taken is a disillusioned group taking off, believing themselves to be the REAL Brotherhood of Steel--because if there's one thing BoS splinter factions are known for it's their "No True Brotherhood of Steel-sman" type rhetoric--and making their way eventually into WV, cleansing as they went. The F76 note doesn't mention power armour, or sophisticated weaponry, so they could well have had to leave it behind after it wasn't able to be maintained any longer, carrying just their name with them. They might've picked up some recruits along the way who carry the banner. Might be a group were taken by what some BoS deserters/exiles/patrolers had to say, and decided to 'join' them in spirit.

There's also very much potential for Vertibirds, because while Fallout 2 has the BoS stealing blueprints for them from the Enclave, by 2242 the BoS had already taken a huge decline in standing, and instead of trying to procure the blueprints so they could have their first ever vertibirds could have been aiming to procure them to replace ones they could've lost in the 165 years since 2077. I wouldn't say it's beyond belief that Mariposa could've had a small number to be taken to Lost Hills, given it was a top-secret military base in the middle of bumflip nowhere handling sensitive research. Not exactly the sort of thing you want to pull up at with an armoured convoy.

Sending a precious Vertibird out in the 25 intervening years between 2077 and 2102, no doubt using the few experienced pilots and soldiers of the Old World, to the state which also happens to be the location of a governmental nuclear bunker where one might be able to extract remnants of an Old World government to a safe location in the hopes of starting anew, is not implausible. To me, it sounds very plausible, in fact, and we know from a 76 trailer that there is a crashed vertibird with BoS markings on the barriers around it. A governmental rescue Vertibird being brought down by Scorched, which are then hunted down by survivors seems like a fair possibility, which nothing in Fallout canon contradicts. Nothing says the Brotherhood never had Vertibirds at a stage before 2242--indeed, the first records we ever have of the Brotherhood using Vertibirds is Fallout 4 and the arrival of the Prydwen, but it would obviously be nonsense to assume that they were never utilised before then, even though the BoS of both F3 and F:NV neglect to reference them. I'm not saying it's definitely the answer, because in all honesty only Bethesda know that; it's simply one of several workable theories.

But for some reason, in the face of 0 hard evidence, people are intent on kicking up a stink not just based around an organisation for which 53 years of initial background is not only lacking but completely nonexistent, but also on information after that which is vague at best. We know of an an emergant faction of the BoS in 2134, not the first. We know the 2242 BoS wanted Enclave vertibird plans, but not that they never had vertibirds at all. We know of vague general tidbits, but nothing more.

It's similar with the Super Mutants. We know Vault 87 ran experiments with modified FEV, and created the first V87 Super Mutants in 2078 which promptly took over. That's 24 years for some of them to reach WV, a state practically next door to Washington. Again, information on the Capital Wasteland mutants especially pre-Fallout 3 is either vague or nonexistent, but conclusions are happily being drawn regardless.

Instead of poo-pooing it all, perhaps it should offer incentive for the vocal 'fans' of Fallout complaining about it to instead play and find out the lore reasons behind it all. Though I imagine that might be too much work for some serial internet complainers.

squidhills wrote:
...and they've already drawn up plans on how to stay alive after the bombs fall.

If any of the multitude of TV shows about hardcore preppers are anything to go by, these people who are the most prepped will be the first people to start shooting everyone else in order to protect their own little bunker.

Rarely do their plans include anything about finding other survivors and working with them to build a community. They are more the shoot first and never ask questions type.

In other words, a large percentage of preppers might actually reduce the potential for large stable communities to develop as the groups that go all-in on prepping are typically doing so from a very egocentric viewpoint. As such they'd be more likely to raid others for supplies than to share or trade. If they think they have the strength to get something for nothing, that is what they would try and do rather than give something for something else.

Then again, they also often manage to combine ignorance of an event which overestimates the likelihood of said event with ignorance of that event which underestimates the impact of that event were it to occur. Like thinking that the earths polar shift would mean that the earth would literally, physically flip upside down without warning but also thinking their little compound made of storage containers would survive such an event.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

Instead of poo-pooing it all, perhaps it should offer incentive for the vocal 'fans' of Fallout complaining about it to instead play and find out the lore reasons behind it all. Though I imagine that might be too much work for some serial internet complainers.

Take an exalt. I've seen a few of those suggestions floating about but that post summarises them all nice and succinctly. And you're absolutely right; there will almost certainly be some effort in the game to explain it, and there's a lot of info we don't have yet. If anything, I'm looking forward to discovering all that and working out how it all fits together.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
What was the difficulty like in terms of how far above your own level an enemy could be before you had trouble?

I saw a very interesting suggestion that some aspects of the game could have been toned down for the press events the other week--and according to several people who went, there were a good number of attendees who had little idea what Fallout even was, so it's a reasonable theory--as it was fairly easy for players versed in Fallout, especially F4, to tackle enemies 10-15 levels higher than themselves, by themselves. Worth seeing if that still stood up in the stress test.

---

Difficulty seemed fine. I only made it to level 5 by the time it ended (which is the first level you can even use a 10mm), so I was stuck with a machete and pipe pistol for quite a while and hoping I didn't run into anything overly powerful. Pretty much just mole rats, feral ghouls and mutant hounds and then started to get protectrons at level 4 or 5. I didn't wander off the "main story", so didn't enter anywhere with higher-level enemies. The new real-time VATS will take some getting used to, but I think it will work out. Being real-time, it doesn't give you much time to think and there weren't tool tips (yet), so I finally figured out how to change target location but never quite got down how to switch enemies without dropping out of VATS; bit chaotic when melee enemies are surrounding you.

 Paradigm wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

Instead of poo-pooing it all, perhaps it should offer incentive for the vocal 'fans' of Fallout complaining about it to instead play and find out the lore reasons behind it all. Though I imagine that might be too much work for some serial internet complainers.

Take an exalt. I've seen a few of those suggestions floating about but that post summarises them all nice and succinctly. And you're absolutely right; there will almost certainly be some effort in the game to explain it, and there's a lot of info we don't have yet. If anything, I'm looking forward to discovering all that and working out how it all fits together.

My own criticisms aren't so much attempts at plugging plot holes which Bethesda's induced. Its that they've so far with the series just gone ahead with what they thought would be cool, disregarding what's came before, and barely bothered to hand wave the conflicts.

As with other titles, I'd like to not have to fill in the blanks and made up backwards solutions for when writers disregard the lore. ...It'd be nice if they just didn't do it in the first place. The folks who put Super Mutants in this game have done so, as with Fallout 3 and 4, to have a cool enemy. Canon continuity wasn't on their list of priorities - as that's not something most players care about beyond a surface level anyway.

I know it's not much like the other games, but I'm pretty exited for 76.