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The pre order beta is live on Tuesday, which is weird to have a middle of the week beta. I wont have time to play until Sunday and I'm still unsure on how long its going to last.

I watched a couple videos of the Youtube extravaganza and was left feeling like it doesn't really scratch the fallout itch. It seems like a better game to have people play with you rather than solo. I have one friend for PS4 that we might play a bunch of it, if it holds us over. I dont think that its winning game of the year with Red Dead coming out. Time will tell. I might be getting it for Xbox and PS4 if people are open to some online play.

 Maddok_Death wrote:
The pre order beta is live on Tuesday, which is weird to have a middle of the week beta.

Not for them. That way they get to have staff on hand in the office during normal work hours to deal with issues, rush out hotfixes for any problems and keep their servers stable.

So, Many A True Nerd has a PC beta video up (and several older Xbox videos from the last week+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju6dm0mzs9c

He is quite enthusiastic about it. I'm still not incredibly sold on the 'environmental storytelling,' or the lack of people, but there are several interesting to the gameplay.

The perk cards are an interesting way of handling skills (though it feels like this can be meta-gamed really hard, swapping scavenger and weight reduction cards for murdering cards depending on your current activities). And there is also way more luck and random number generation in getting cards than I like.

The graphics are... odd. The resolutionand texture quality shoots up and down quite a bit during the video (the baseball bat often looks like an untextured surface, and lots of vegetation and signs look really terrible until very close, with some pop in glitches as well.

While exploitative PvP is potentially a problem (big thing is setting up to get shot while your target is fighting something else), the other part of it is often seems fairly irrelevant... unless you want to craft. Claiming a resource workshop space flags you as fair game, and some resources obviously matter more than others (his gold pit, for example, especially since 7 gold is required to make the deep pockets mod on leather armor... each piece of leather armor).

This leaves PvP in a weird place, sort of the worst of both worlds. It sounds semi-required for rare crafting materials, but outside of that it requires weird tricks to force other players to actually play that part of the game with you, which seems bad for people who want to PvP as well as people who don't want it at all. That can easily lead to obnoxious stalker behavior from frustrated folks.


For other crafting materials (like lead) just requires knowing the spawn schedule for the gym in the starting town so you can grab all the barbells, break them down and stuff them in your magic box of holding, accessible anywhere in the world. Which people are clearly already learning, even in beta (as he goes to the gym and finds them already gone).

Story wise- mixed feelings. Find the answers to the mysteries is neat (the first time)...but everyone is long dead and gone, so the answers don't really matter that much. I'm not sure if the game is sustainable that way.

Power armor is a goal, but he stumbles across a frame and a few pieces very early in one of the x-box videos. Unlike Fallout 4, the frame can be taken and stuffed in inventory (it weighs all of 10 pounds), but the armor pieces are leveled (30, for ones he stumbled across). But they can go in the magic box and you can still get benefits from just wearing the frame.

---
After watching the current WoW expansion get a lot of complaining about lack of activities at the end of the first month, I'm curious what 76 will offer to keep people playing, or if it will just fizzle after 4-6 weeks. After all questions are answered and all there is to do is repeat events and trying to force PvP to happen, what will keep players coming back? Granted there isn't a sub involved (though a lot of cosmetics to buy through the online store), but is this the kind of game people will boot up again in 4 or 8 months just to play for a while?

I'm still impressed by the uninstall bug. I feel like Bethesda will have to work to top that.

 Wolfblade wrote:
I'm still impressed by the uninstall bug. I feel like Bethesda will have to work to top that.

Well, there is apparently a V-sync thing that you can change in an INI file to increase movement speed.
It has apparently been part of Bethesda's game engine since Morrowind, despite all the changes and upgrades in the intervening years.

But now, since the focus has changed from a solo game to online game with PvP, people on the Beth forums are viewing it less as a potential quality of life mod and more of an exploit.
Especially since modders have been telling Bethesda how to fix it since Morrowind.

Not played the BETA as I didn't preorder, but the more I see, the more I like. The systems seem to work well for the most part, and though you can clearly see where compromises have been made on FO4's mechanics for the multiplayer aspect, it seems far less jarring than, say, Skyrim to ESO.

The environmental storytelling seems to me to be Fallout at its finest, dark, haunting and leaving just enough of a mystery to keep you searching for the next note or holotape. The Survivor Stories in Flatwoods paint such a vivid picture of a community teetering on the edge of annihilation, the Capital Building has some fascinating insight into post-war politics, and the secrets hidden in the Vault Tec university are classic Fallout.

You can argue that everyone being dead means not all of it matters, but equally a lot of it addresses stuff that is still relevant to what you're doing, trying to survive in the wasteland these people couldn't.

All in all,I'm starting to really look forward to this now. If nothing else, it's got absolutely huge potential once it's in the hands of the community at large, there's all sorts of interesting ways to play that people may or may not latch onto, and it'll be a fascinating one to watch evolve.

I guess my problem with the 'mystery' is they already gave the final answer when they announced the game: everybody is dead, and the reason why is... fairly obvious. The mystery kind of isn't, because they had to explain that a major fallout feature (interaction with surface survivors) isn't a thing.

It also doesn't help that

It makes it feel like the story is propping up a questionable design* decision, more than prioritizing a good story.

*not necessarily a bad one. I get that including NPC people means that a good chunk of online players will kill them for the trollz or lulz, and then you've got to justify a constant cycle of replacements or just unkillable flags.

But that just makes me wonder if it's simply the wrong type of game. A co-op colony builder makes a lot more sense in setting.

Live together for 25 years then go off and fight each other in the face of annihilation is...pretty dubious as a concept.


---
Past that, there is a lot of melodramatic wallowing in tales of tragedy that you can't do much about. Or you can ignore them and the game is... exactly the same. Gather stuff, shoot or ignore players.

All in all,I'm starting to really look forward to this now. If nothing else, it's got absolutely huge potential once it's in the hands of the community at large, there's all sorts of interesting ways to play that people may or may not latch onto, and it'll be a fascinating one to watch evolve

Without mods, I'm not sure how the usual Bethesda community will cope. The potential building aspect seems undermined by the possibility of getting it nuked, and server assignments seem fairly random on login, which can undermine a sense of community entirely (as you're essentially pugging every session)


---
Of course, at this point, not having major problems and bugs is Beth's focus for the next two weeks. From the beta reaction, it seems like they need more time.

Honestly the Beta has confirmed my decision to pass on Fallout 76. Several reviewers have said that the lack of NPC's makes the world seem very empty. And the Fallout combat system is a mess, which didn't matter to much in a single player game where going into your inventory/pip boy froze time but is terrible in a live game.

The PVP system just seems like a mess right now also. I'm going to check out the New California mod for FO:NV I think for my FO hit until the FO Miami mod is released. The only thing that is going to save FO:76 at this point I think is Bethesda hurrying up and allowing private servers with Mods so that the community can make something fun and playable out of their game.

 Wolfblade wrote:
I'm still impressed by the uninstall bug. I feel like Bethesda will have to work to top that.

At least you were able to purchase the game! My Bethesda Launcher crashes and gives me a Word error document everytime I click on the Pre Order button.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Wolfblade wrote:
I'm still impressed by the uninstall bug. I feel like Bethesda will have to work to top that.

At least you were able to purchase the game! My Bethesda Launcher crashes and gives me a Word error document everytime I click on the Pre Order button.

Oh god no, I'm not touching this flaming gak heap with a 10 foot pole while wearing terminator armor blessed by the emperor himself until a month or two after launch, and probably not even then. I think this game will crash and burn as FO4 was not great (it wasn't terrible, but it wasn't very good either), and they appear to be doubling down on FO4's questionable design changes, AND they're chasing a mostly dead genre (open world-survival-crafting) . On top of that it removes the few redeeming qualities of the fallout series which is interesting NPCs, and to a smaller extent, stories which involve said NPCs.

Well, I definitely don't think the open world survival crafting genre is dead by any means, but I do think they're burning part of their existing player base to chase another.

And gambling the new one will want a Fallout skin on a fairly uninspired example of crafting and survival. I doubt the atmospheric storytelling will be a big draw for the crowd I think they're counting on.

I think the open world crafting survival genre has been pretty much dead since Conan: Exiles (or whatever that one is) started. They're not the hot ticket item they once were, just like the way zombie games are no longer the "must be" item. Or horde mode games, or every flavor of the month that pops up then burns out.

Is there a list of all the easter eggs/pop culture references in that last trailer? The only one I recognize is the one with the girl that's based on this .gif.

https://media.giphy.com/media/v8omVdExrQ9ig/giphy.gif

I finally got to play the beta yesterday after playing download simulator on Tuesday. Neat game and gladly, at least for me, mechanically very similar to Fallout 4. Survival seems less tedious than Fallout 4's survival mode and seems like a fun little addition to keep your occupied and looking for man than splattering the next monster. I like how they implemented sleep.

I like it.

 vonjankmon wrote:
Honestly the Beta has confirmed my decision to pass on Fallout 76. Several reviewers have said that the lack of NPC's makes the world seem very empty. And the Fallout combat system is a mess, which didn't matter to much in a single player game where going into your inventory/pip boy froze time but is terrible in a live game.

Meh. If you're like me and like the Lone Wanderer experience, the world is anything but dead. It's pretty crowded with all the people going about their business, actually. Obviously the absence of live NPCs takes an element of storytelling and world building out of the game, but I don't get the impression that this makes the game inherently terribly. Just terrible to those who can't get themselves to accept the world for what it is. Matter of taste, really.

Combat system? Seems good to me, like Fallout 4. You have a quick slot menu with key bindings and enough slots to have several weapons and a cartload of chems at your disposal at the press of a button (or ten). If you have to select something more esoteric than that, I'd say you're just ill-prepared. Also, hiding in cover and opening your pip-boy works fine. Also, if you're ded 'ard like me, standing in front of a robot and rummaging around in your pip-boy still works without getting you killed.

I loved Fallout 4 if might be one of my favorite games of all time. I just had everything I could want - big open spaces, a complex and huge city, ocean, etc etc. I actually loaded a mod to add greenery to the wasteland as after replaying it several times I was bored of the look. I loved it.

I hate playing online with other peeps, and Fallout is great for me to be able to go in at my own speed. Whenever they make the next Elder Scrolls, if they do not include settlement building, I may not even get it. I absolutely love it.

Voss wrote:
I guess my problem with the 'mystery' is they already gave the final answer when they announced the game: everybody is dead, and the reason why is... fairly obvious. The mystery kind of isn't, because they had to explain that a major fallout feature (interaction with surface survivors) isn't a thing.

I don't really intend to play this game for at least a few years probably, but on the note of a certain catastrophe. If they haven't made the cause of that the "New Plague" - i.e. the thing which led to the development of F.E.V. and martial law being placed on the United States prior the war, and something Bethesda chose to ignore in their canon - then that's a complete waste of the canon and just another example of Bethesda doing what they feel like regardless of what's came before. :/

I had no idea what you were referring to, so had to go look it up.


The new plague isnt 'canon'. It's an unused plot element from a game that never got made. There isn't any reason at all for Beth to use it.

Voss wrote:
I had no idea what you were referring to, so had to go look it up.


The new plague isnt 'canon'. It's an unused plot element from a game that never got made. There isn't any reason at all for Beth to use it.

The New Plague's referenced in the creation of FEV in the first two games, as FEV was the result of the "cure" to this virus, which then spurred its own development program. In New Vegas the Hei Gui stealth suits which you find in the Hoover Dam are from the failed attempt the Chinese made on the research facility hidden their which resulted in the New Plague being unleashed on Denver (though that is only hinted that in New Vegas rather than being explicit).

It is explicitly referenced in Fallout 1, and the Fallout Bible in which Fallout 3 took a good deal of its canon. In Fallout 3: Point Lookout it is also mentioned in terminal entries. The New Plague remains canon to the Fallout series, though as and when Bethesda choose to remember its existence (like much of the earlier canon).

After yet more digging... a couple very vague lines from a computer in the original game is a really obscure reference to hang a condemnation on.

{117}{}{This installation was established in 2055 as a biological research facility for experimental cures of the New Plague. However, in 2071, this facility was placed under United States military command.}
{118}{}{Research into possible cures for the New Plague created the Forced Evolutionary Virus, which was further developed in an attempt to create a transmittable genetic-engineering virus -- in effect, infectious evolution.}

That's the sum total of the 'new plague' in the original games. There isn't anything worthwhile there to hang a random reference on. <Insert disease here> leads to FEV leads to Bad Things plot. It's canon in the sense that Dandy Boy Apples are canon, a proper name for something generic.

The Point Lookout reference reads more like a gag or satire, with government materials insisting the best thing to do is stay home and avoid getting infected with blood loss and socialism.

Got to play a bit of the BETA tonight after Bethesda gave everyone extra codes for the weekend, pretty pleased with it all in all. The first hour or so definitely felt very overstuffed with the game immediately directing you towards a town with a main quest, a series of side quests, a recurring event and a whole bunch of storytelling to get through, but once that peters out a bit and the pace becomes a bit more leisurely, the experience becomes much better. There's still a question of just how long it'll remain entertaining, but given how little of the map I've been through thus far and how many stories I've only scratched the surface of, I'd be willing to bet there's plenty of mileage here.

Went through a couple of fairly large dungeon areas as a duo, definitely more enemies and larger locations than I'm used to from 4 and things get very ammo/aid-intensive in smaller teams or solo, but that adds a level of tension and unpredictability that was very enjoyable after coming to know 4's locations and enemies inside out. I think the game possibly needs to be a bit more generous with Stimpacks outside of quest rewards, as they don't show up too often in the wilds and you burn a lot in some of the larger firefights.

I find it odd how (outside of the random packs) the crafting perks seem very thin on the ground in the early game, I played about 5 hours tonight and yesterday and hit level 10, not once did I see Gunsmith or Armourer come up despite unlocking plenty of mods that required them.

It's definitely been a rude awakening as to how much I rely on VATS in FO4, not having that option to slow things down and take a breather has definitely kept me on my toes a little more. The new VATS does seem suitably powerful with the right perks though, and feels decent enough. It does bug me slightly that just going into/staying in VATS drains AP even when you don't fire a shot, but I imagine there's a reason for that, it might be too good if you could stay locked on indefinitely without firing. Jumping costing AP I totally don't get, but there you go.

Once players spread out a bit, and especially tonight as it's the last session and most people have stopped gathering around Flatwoods, that classic Fallout loneliness is definitely there; running into another player was fairly uncommon and did feel important when it happened, like when we were getting utterly lost in a dungeon and found another player facing the same problem, before all making it to the exit together. There seems to be more a spirit of cooperation than competition as well, I've had several impromptu alliances and teamups and not once been attacked by another player. I'm sure the dicks are still out there, but the majority of players seem to be willing to join forces rather than shoot on sight thanks to the anti-griefing measures.

My final thought is that the pump-action shotgun is a thing of unparalleled beauty! Where was that glorious thing in Fallout 4?

Been perusing several Beta playthrough videos, including AngryJoe's, and it pretty much confirms my suspicions that this is definitely not the game for me, at least in its current iteration. Maybe when they add more story-content or something to do beyond what's available on launch, I'll consider trying it out, but for the current price point, it definitely feels pretty bare-bones for what you get.

 Grimskul wrote:
Been perusing several Beta playthrough videos, including AngryJoe's, and it pretty much confirms my suspicions that this is definitely not the game for me, at least in its current iteration. Maybe when they add more story-content or something to do beyond what's available on launch, I'll consider trying it out, but for the current price point, it definitely feels pretty bare-bones for what you get.

The early parts of that video are pretty hilarious. The other youtubers I've been watching for beta coverage have been really positive about it, and while there have been some issues and glitches, nothing like that.
On the other hand, the 'pvp' is pretty much how I expect people to behave in this sort of game.

Though that looks really exploitable (for what little use caps are in this game). Just find some buddies, build camps, break their stuff 'til you have a sizeable bounty, then let your buddies kill you. Then the next guy does the same, and then the next and so on. Perpetual money loop.
I very much dislike the idea that players can (and with the right group set up, are encouraged to) just come break your stuff as you're wandering around playing the game. Yeah, it's probably just repair costs, but its a jarring gameplay aspect, that benefits no one but pvp 'farming.'

---
But really, it's not a good video. They're clearly solidly against it from the start, and aren't really showing anything off. Even though I agree with some of their issues with it, other YouTube folks (ManyaTrueNerd and CohhCarnage, for example) give it a better shake AND a better look at what the game is actually like. It still doesn't look terribly appealing, but watching those videos I can at least grasp why others might find it appealing. Cohh, for instance, has said he's just going to run through it like its a single player game, to the end of the storyline (and probably limits of the exploration).

 Paradigm wrote:
Got to play a bit of the BETA tonight after Bethesda gave everyone extra codes for the weekend, pretty pleased with it all in all. The first hour or so definitely felt very overstuffed with the game immediately directing you towards a town with a main quest, a series of side quests, a recurring event and a whole bunch of storytelling to get through, but once that peters out a bit and the pace becomes a bit more leisurely, the experience becomes much better. There's still a question of just how long it'll remain entertaining, but given how little of the map I've been through thus far and how many stories I've only scratched the surface of, I'd be willing to bet there's plenty of mileage here.

I never participated in the race to Flatwoods and took a sharp right turn right out of the Vault, always following the next thing that caught my interest on the horizon. Flatwoods gives you an idea of essential game mechanics but I think Fallout 4 prepared me enough for those so I could figure out the little differences as I went along. I thought that was a nice, leisurely way of starting the game without actually feeling like I missed essential start of game things as setting up shop in Sanctuary Hills always felt like in Fallout 4.

The map is pretty huge and I think with daily challenges and quests there might be a lot of long term fun in the game. The valley bridge above Flatwoods is gigantic. I should know. I crossed it four times (and took two seriously stupid leaps that miraculously didn't see me tumbling to my death - there's a surprise). If you like that kind of thing, and I think I do, the game should keep you entertained for a long time, especially if you refrain from fast traveling and walk wherever a daily quest sends you and, you know, enjoy the view. Feels nice. Even if it may be a bit badly timed. That bridge? Discovered it, crossed it, figured when I was on the other side that I really wanted to go the other way (I explored it because it was there, not because it took me the right way), then later found a daily quest near Sutton that would take me across the bridge and back all over again, only to the go on and send me to Morgantown and up into the Toxic Valley. Quite a journey for a little level 8 guy.

 Paradigm wrote:
Went through a couple of fairly large dungeon areas as a duo, definitely more enemies and larger locations than I'm used to from 4 and things get very ammo/aid-intensive in smaller teams or solo, but that adds a level of tension and unpredictability that was very enjoyable after coming to know 4's locations and enemies inside out. I think the game possibly needs to be a bit more generous with Stimpacks outside of quest rewards, as they don't show up too often in the wilds and you burn a lot in some of the larger firefights.

Maybe it was me traveling alone and at my own pace, and not really delving into dungeons, but I had not massive problems with healing. Food and water covers that pretty well along with the occasional good night's rest. It may be to early for me to tell, though. I've only barely managed to get to level 10 so far and as I said, I'm taking my time and exploring.

I reckon combat healing is the real stimpak drain as that's where I used up the handful that I needed to take.

I don't know if I found the recipe or if it's available from the start, but healing salve from Blood Leaf and the blue flowers whose name I forgot refills 20% health and does not decay. I intend to use that as a backup if I ever run out of stimpacks.

Going off of my experience, so far I like the balance in the survival department. Nothing feels so abundant that you feel comfortable, but there's enough to go around for day to day use with a little extra to build up stock for bad times.

 Paradigm wrote:
My final thought is that the pump-action shotgun is a thing of unparalleled beauty! Where was that glorious thing in Fallout 4?

Hell yeah. I thought I'd get and be stuck with a double barrel shotgun as a backup on low levels. Never thought I'd find the love of my life so early.

It's definitely the dungeons that eat up your healing and ammo very quickly, due to the enemy count being a lot higher. The Poseidon plant south of Flatwoods that was packed with Scorched, Ghouls and Turrets was a dungeon around the same size as Corvega in FO4 but with around 3x as many enemies.

That and it had an entire hangar-sized room that put put a constant 10 Rads and had only a single exit not locked behind Hacker 3... Went through a lot of Stims and Radaway getting out of there, and spent a decent chunk of time overencumbered and searching for a workbench, because there was no way I was leaving all that loot behind even if that did mean getting massively irradiated and shot to bits.

I think that actually raises an interesting gameplay element as well; with dungeons being more demanding and loot and scavenging being way more important than previously, there's a nice risk/reward and return-on-investment layer to proceedings. If you blast through a dungeon and don't really find much of value in the first half of the area, do you back out and cut your losses of supplies, knowing you could spend another 20 minutes in here and still not find anything worthwhile, or do you press on in the hope that there's a mother lode of good stuff around the next corner? I guess to some extent that was there before, but it definitely feels more pronounced now, as the good stuff isn't just collected in one chest at the end of the dungeon as FO4 tended to do.

Interesting. I'm going to have to have a peak in there. Compare experiences. Bethesda has added another two beta sessions this week, so maybe on Thursday.

Voss wrote:


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But really, it's not a good video. They're clearly solidly against it from the start, and aren't really showing anything off. Even though I agree with some of their issues with it, other YouTube folks (ManyaTrueNerd and CohhCarnage, for example) give it a better shake AND a better look at what the game is actually like. It still doesn't look terribly appealing, but watching those videos I can at least grasp why others might find it appealing. Cohh, for instance, has said he's just going to run through it like its a single player game, to the end of the storyline (and probably limits of the exploration).

I didn't really read it like that. I think they were having fun at the start. Messing about a bit and so forth. But after the Vertibird he started to be increasingly bored. Hence then you have the session just starting to cause trouble for others; which to be fair a lot of people do when they get bored in online computer games. It is effectively the human trying to place some fun on something they are getting bored with. And personally I think this is where FO76 is failing badly. It just has very little to interest once you get past the point that it is go to A), collect B), kill C) and so forth. There's so many other ways you can do that and get a player invested in the choice. But there is simply no consequence to the actions and in effect that will result in a game where people aren't invested in their own actions.

And the reaction seems a bit like this. The overall response appears to be a bit 'Meh'. There are some that love it, some that hate it, but the overall opinion seems to be 'not bothered' which is perhaps the worse possible situation. This could perhaps be reinforced by the PC version giving away 3 free fallout games to try to get people to pre-order. Things definitely aren't going well when you have to use 3 games that are nigh on 20 years old to try and sell one now.

 Geifer wrote:
Interesting. I'm going to have to have a peak in there. Compare experiences. Bethesda has added another two beta sessions this week, so maybe on Thursday.

Awesome that they've added some more sessions, the game really clicked for me last night so I look forward to putting a few more hours in.

I have a feeling that this game is going to land with a resounding *thud*. The 10 year old engine isn't going to make the game appeal to people unfamiliar with Fallout, they're going to look at some video game play and roll their eyes at how the game looks and functions. Many of the big Fallout fans are fans due to story, which this game is lacking in significantly. So it'll be difficult to bring in new players to the series while at the same time alienating a not insignificant portion of their existing player base.

On top of all of that they decided that they were going to somehow make PvP work without it being the sole purpose of the game, a mechanic that has sunk something like 95% of all games that have tried it. I mean hell, we're not even out of beta yet and someone has already posted how a group of friends can bypass the penalty system meant to prevent rampant PvP.

Once they allow private servers and modding they'll likely get my money when it's on sale so I can play with some friends but without those two options it is a hard pass for me.

If someone does a total mod overhaul and converts it to FO3/NV/4 I'd prolly pick it up then, because it would be fun to play through with a friend.

Otherwise this seems like a flop.

 vonjankmon wrote:


On top of all of that they decided that they were going to somehow make PvP work without it being the sole purpose of the game, a mechanic that has sunk something like 95% of all games that have tried it. I mean hell, we're not even out of beta yet and someone has already posted how a group of friends can bypass the penalty system meant to prevent rampant PvP.

Once they allow private servers and modding they'll likely get my money when it's on sale so I can play with some friends but without those two options it is a hard pass for me.

Its a good thing its a beta then so they have at least some time to try and fix that bounty loop hole.

I dont know. a lot of fans of original fallout seems to really be hating on it but coming off playing rust, you can generate a lot of player driven story actually RPGing in an open world sandbox and im excited for that. modding will probably help that more.