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 Polonius wrote:
Wait, are people here actually arguing that there is no sexism against women in society at large?

This stuff is pretty well documented. There are studies, literally hundreds of high profile cases in the media, and plenty of personal stories.

I supposed if your female friends and family have never shared any sexism with you, it could mean one of two things: 1) that you only know women that have had a completely different experience than most women, or 2) the women in your life have not shared their sexist experiences with you.

Nah I’m arguing with blowing it out of proportion and using circumstantial evidence to back it up, the “I saw it happen therefore it always happens everywhere” argument, it’s clearly nonsense and used to either close an argument down or provoke and emotional response.

 Formosa wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
Wait, are people here actually arguing that there is no sexism against women in society at large?

This stuff is pretty well documented. There are studies, literally hundreds of high profile cases in the media, and plenty of personal stories.

I supposed if your female friends and family have never shared any sexism with you, it could mean one of two things: 1) that you only know women that have had a completely different experience than most women, or 2) the women in your life have not shared their sexist experiences with you.

Nah I’m arguing with blowing it out of proportion and using circumstantial evidence to back it up, the “I saw it happen therefore it always happens everywhere” argument, it’s clearly nonsense and used to either close an argument down or provoke and emotional response.

But if it's pretty well documented to being common, then personal accounts make sense, right? I mean, there's evidence that low grade harassment toward women does happen all the time, if not quite everywhere.

It kind of seems like you want to acknowledge sexism, but then not actually do anything about it.

 Polonius wrote:
Wait, are people here actually arguing that there is no sexism against women in society at large?

The argument being attempted was that, to quote 'its not common here'. Ergo, that it is unusual, out of the ordinary, and not something to be encountered in any form on a regular basis.

 Ketara wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
Wait, are people here actually arguing that there is no sexism against women in society at large?

The argument being attempted was that, to quote 'its not common here'. Ergo, that it is unusual, out of the ordinary, and not something to be encountered in any form on a regular basis.

That’s a poor arguement, sadly. Sexism is pretty rampant.

Sadly, you encounter it more often than hot cosplayer girl sideboob.

 Polonius wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
Wait, are people here actually arguing that there is no sexism against women in society at large?

This stuff is pretty well documented. There are studies, literally hundreds of high profile cases in the media, and plenty of personal stories.

I supposed if your female friends and family have never shared any sexism with you, it could mean one of two things: 1) that you only know women that have had a completely different experience than most women, or 2) the women in your life have not shared their sexist experiences with you.

Nah I’m arguing with blowing it out of proportion and using circumstantial evidence to back it up, the “I saw it happen therefore it always happens everywhere” argument, it’s clearly nonsense and used to either close an argument down or provoke and emotional response.

But if it's pretty well documented to being common, then personal accounts make sense, right? I mean, there's evidence that low grade harassment toward women does happen all the time, if not quite everywhere.

It kind of seems like you want to acknowledge sexism, but then not actually do anything about it.

Do you suggest he hangs around buildings sites and calls the police whenever a builder makes an off colour comment?

Even feminists can't agree on exactly what exactly constitutes sexism. Who are we to do so?

This discussion could benefit from someone quoting actual studies (With a good methodology) about the whidespread of low-key sexim. Or the lack of it.

Personally, I don't consider myself feminist, I disagree with many of their principles and methods if not with the final goal.
But I find bollocks to try to say that theres actual generalised discrimination agaisnt white males in general or in the gamer sub-world, but then to negate that theres common sexism toward women in the world at large.

I don't know what to say, personally, here, you just need to go a friday or a saturday in the night for clubs and pubs to see all kind of sexist attitudes. I'll add, of course, that the "club culture" is obnoxious in all kind of senses, for men and women, and it should be erased from the face of the earth. But maybe my vision in that regard is a little extreme.

 Polonius wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
Wait, are people here actually arguing that there is no sexism against women in society at large?

This stuff is pretty well documented. There are studies, literally hundreds of high profile cases in the media, and plenty of personal stories.

I supposed if your female friends and family have never shared any sexism with you, it could mean one of two things: 1) that you only know women that have had a completely different experience than most women, or 2) the women in your life have not shared their sexist experiences with you.

Nah I’m arguing with blowing it out of proportion and using circumstantial evidence to back it up, the “I saw it happen therefore it always happens everywhere” argument, it’s clearly nonsense and used to either close an argument down or provoke and emotional response.

But if it's pretty well documented to being common, then personal accounts make sense, right? I mean, there's evidence that low grade harassment toward women does happen all the time, if not quite everywhere.

It kind of seems like you want to acknowledge sexism, but then not actually do anything about it.

Its pretty well documented is it? cool, provide those documents from a reputable/reliable source, you have essentially claimed that its rampant, so back that up.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I guess you've missed the recent feminist backlash against cis white males?

No such backlash exists. Some of us are annoyed at cis white men who think that any ishness they don't personally experience doesn't exist, or that any character in fiction who isn't a cis white man is taking something away from them, and there is certainly a lot of pointing out the privilege that cis white men have. But nobody (at least outside of irrelevant "some random person on tumblr" nonsense) is saying "you suck because you are a cis white man". Nobody is asking inappropriate questions about what's in their pants (and if it's "real") or insisting they offer a solution to white on white crime or yelling "GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN" at them in the same way that people treat transgender/non-white/female people.

I could provide you with HUNDREDS of examples of people saying "you suck because you are a cis white man". If you were being honest, you could too. I mean, "toxic masculinity" is literally one of the go to claims of feminists. This shouldn't even be up for debate, but I feel like you are so unwilling to allow for any ground lost that you would eventually start arguing the definition of "is".

Gamers are treated badly because they are men.

No they aren't. Female gamers are often treated badly in the same ways as male gamers, to the extent that gamers in general are treated badly at all. This isn't 1990 anymore, gaming is a mainstream thing. And there is certainly no male equivalent to the sexism that women get in the gaming community. If a person with a male-sounding voice joins a random FPS server they aren't going to expect to receive "DICK PICS NOW" or "I BET YOU ONLY PLAY BECAUSE YOUR GIRLFRIEND DOES" spam in the same way that women receive inappropriate comments.

Female gamers are WORSHIPPED in the video game community. It's the only reason why Sarkeesian's bs gained any traction at all.

The male gaze is bad because it is male.

No, that isn't anyone's point. The male gaze is bad because of how it is a near-universal thing. Men are the important part, women are the subject and entertainment for men. Most/all people objecting to the male gaze problem would be happy with equality in that, where the female gaze has equal prominence.

So, the male gaze - called the MALE gaze - which objectifies women (and only women) and is a near-universal thing (because men are near universally into looking a the female form), is only bad because there is also not a female gaze? Then why are their movies that are simultaneously condemned for having sexy female characters (like Black Widow) while also being praised for their sexy male characters (like shirtless Thor)?

Damsels in distress are bad because it is a male power fantasy of saving/winning a princess through heroic (masculine) deeds.

Well yes, when your story treats half of your potential customers as irrelevant at best, and helpless objects to be rescued at worst, you're going to have objections to it.

Last I checked, women like the damsel in distress tropes as well, or have Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty become famous, popular fairy tales for centuries because only men like it?

In fact, you're demonstrating the problem by making this argument. You're treating "gamer" and "male power fantasy" as synonymous, and assuming that criticism of that male power fantasy must be criticism of gamers.

I'm not making that claim, but I'm glad we finally got around to arguing the definitions of words. The claim made by Sarkeesian is that these things (male gaze, violence, damsels in distress) are morally bad things, and that they have no place in a modern, equal society. The crux of all these claims is that men like them, women do not, and thus it is unfair and sexist. Instead of allowing for these things to exist in addition to the experiences she wants to see, she is, herself, unfair in her criticisms and praise.

For instance, seeing DOOM at the Bethesda E3 conference, she tweeted - direct quote - "This level of violence shouldn't be considered normal. It's not an excuse to say it is expected because DOOM. That's the problem."

DOOM is one of the cornerstones of gaming. Why shouldn't the new game's level of violence (well within the standard set by the series) be considered normal? Especially when it is a DOOM game being a DOOM game? How is it a problem? She also complains about the audience cheering that violence. What does this say about what Sarkeesian wants for video games? That she wants more experiences that she likes or that she wants less (zero) experiences that she doesn't?

And how does she associate violence with masculinity? Here's some tweets she wrote in the aftermath of a school shooting:

"We need to seriously address connections between violence, sexism and toxic ideas of manhood before boys and men commit more mass shootings."

"Not a coincidence it’s always men and boys committing mass shootings. The pattern is connected to ideas of toxic masculinity in our culture."

Personally, with the "Female gamers are worshipped" affirmation, I have to disagree. If they where worshipped in general, you wouldn't have people arguing if a girl is a true gamer or a poser based in how pretty she is. And I have seen plenty of cases of people saying each other "Omg you suck because you are male" but thats like in universities and on the internet, and as we know those are not the real world.

Theres a ton of discussion about that kind of stuff. Of course, our personal experiences are different, because hispanic countries (Theres no "spanish" communities on the internet, just hispanic ones, we all get mixed up) specially those in South america are generally much more sexist and religious controlled than Spain.
So even in my small warcraft roleplay community, I have seen a ton of cases of sexist commentaries towards women, normally from people of central-south america.

 Galas wrote:
Personally, with the "Female gamers are worshipped" affirmation, I have to disagree. If they where worshipped in general, you wouldn't have people arguing if a girl is a true gamer or a poser based in how pretty she is.

Go on over to Twitch and check out a few girls channels. I don't have a lot of sympathy for girls who wear a low cut top, position a camera at a high angle and watch free money roll in then complain about being objectified..

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Personally, with the "Female gamers are worshipped" affirmation, I have to disagree. If they where worshipped in general, you wouldn't have people arguing if a girl is a true gamer or a poser based in how pretty she is.

Go on over to Twitch and check out a few girls channels. I don't have a lot of sympathy for girls who wear a low cut top, position a camera at a high angle and watch free money roll in then complain about being objectified..

As I loathe and hate the term "gamer", I don't spend much time thinking who is one and who isnt. And for that, I'm happier. But personally I don't have problems with people that do with his time whatever they want.

I have seen too much porn to claim the high ground in that kind of discussion.

EDIT: In response to your edit, yeah, thats hipocrisy for their part, but at the same time... does it matter?

 Galas wrote:
This discussion could benefit from someone quoting actual studies (With a good methodology) about the whidespread of low-key sexim. Or the lack of it.

Unfortunately, a large number of these studies are extremely poor. Being obsessed with primary sources, I personally read many of the studies cited and drew my own conclusions. In most cases, the studies were misquoted or quoted out of context or simply misunderstood, with the rest being legitimately poor studies that used a statistically insignificant number of people, a biased sample, didn't control for various factors (such as lying, when using anonymous questionnaires), and so on. The worst ones were the meta-analyses which collected together a hundred or so studies and tried to make a study out of that, but it generally treats the studies as if they were equal. When the majority of those studies were terrible by scientific standards in the first place, it starts to make the ones that were legitimate stand out as an outlier, becoming a footnote to the study.

For instance, there was this one study - it was a while ago, so I hope I'm remembering this right - that reported that it showed that people are racist because when shown faces of convicted criminals, when shown more black faces, the people were more likely to favor the death penalty. But if you examine the actual study, you'd find that they didn't control for other factors, like mustaches, glasses, whether they were smiling, and stuff like that. It didn't control for the ages, races, income levels, whether they'd been victimized in the past, and stuff like that for the people questioned. And then, when you ran the numbers, they only did two tests, each with a group of twenty people, in which the total difference in votes was 2 - well within the range of variation for such a small sample size. And yet, this study was reported on as if it proved racism and was brought up repeatedly in debates about racism.

But I find bollocks to try to say that theres actual generalised discrimination agaisnt white males in general or in the gamer sub-world, but then to negate that theres common sexism toward women in the world at large.

I think most people agree that there is discrimination against women, but where we disagree is how damaging that discrimination is - especially with regard to gaming. Sure, genital mutilation in Africa is pretty darn bad, but getting "SEND NUDES" over voice chat? It's a matter of balance. How terrible is this discrimination and how many concessions are we willing to make to to end it? For instance, I think most people would be against wholesale censorship of the internet to end online harassment.

I'd argue that while women are treated differently in the gamer community, I won't agree that they are treated worse. I have not seen any evidence that this is true. Everything I've seen happens to men and women alike, often in equal measures (I just got teabagged in Fortnite), and it seems like the true difference isn't in how they are treated, but how much they are offended by their treatment.

 Galas wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Personally, with the "Female gamers are worshipped" affirmation, I have to disagree. If they where worshipped in general, you wouldn't have people arguing if a girl is a true gamer or a poser based in how pretty she is.

Go on over to Twitch and check out a few girls channels. I don't have a lot of sympathy for girls who wear a low cut top, position a camera at a high angle and watch free money roll in then complain about being objectified..

As I loathe and hate the term "gamer", I don't spend much time thinking who is one and who isnt. And for that, I'm happier. But personally I don't have problems with people that do with his time whatever they want.

I have seen too much porn to claim the high ground in that kind of discussion.

EDIT: In response to your edit, yeah, thats hipocrisy for their part, but at the same time... does it matter?

My main problem with it is that I'm not a moderately attractive girl to get free money from nerds.

 Galas wrote:
This discussion could benefit from someone quoting actual studies (With a good methodology) about the whidespread of low-key sexim.

There's a profundity of such studies available for anyone who cares enough to go and look, but the issue is that those who have a serious enough problem with feminism won't do that. It's like any political position, if they're a die hard against something, most people will go to any extreme not to budge even an inch because so much of their world view is predicated upon it. Anything that agrees with you is accepted without question and anything that disagrees (if consulted at all) is rigorously examined for faults and discounted on minor factors.

Personally, I don't consider myself feminist, I disagree with many of their principles and methods if not with the final goal.

See, I find it good to make a distinction between being a 'feminist' (someone who believes women should have equal rights, opportunities, and treatment to their male counterparts), and being one of the thirty odd University based extreme 'Feminazis' who actually espouse stuff about female superiority, and the horde of 15 year oldTumblrinas who blow things up to ridiculous proportions because they're in a little bubble and have a poor understanding of most of the concepts they actually talk about (which is fine, we all start somewhere).

Unfortunately, those who want to have a problem with feminism (I'm not talking about you here guv, you're being very reasonable) inevitably conflate them all together in a big mixing pot so that they can talk about how 'toxic' feminism is. It gives them something to rant against. To them, feminism is more of a political position than a simple belief with regards to societal attitudes, which turns it into something they can fight/oppose without having to reconcile themselves to the concept that they might be actively fighting to oppress people.

Then you can say all the women who disagee with you are likely those darn feminists, and all the men only do it because they're trying to get into the ladies pants (that usually being the primary obsession/motivation of the person in question projected onto other people).

 Formosa wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
Wait, are people here actually arguing that there is no sexism against women in society at large?

This stuff is pretty well documented. There are studies, literally hundreds of high profile cases in the media, and plenty of personal stories.

I supposed if your female friends and family have never shared any sexism with you, it could mean one of two things: 1) that you only know women that have had a completely different experience than most women, or 2) the women in your life have not shared their sexist experiences with you.

Nah I’m arguing with blowing it out of proportion and using circumstantial evidence to back it up, the “I saw it happen therefore it always happens everywhere” argument, it’s clearly nonsense and used to either close an argument down or provoke and emotional response.

But if it's pretty well documented to being common, then personal accounts make sense, right? I mean, there's evidence that low grade harassment toward women does happen all the time, if not quite everywhere.

It kind of seems like you want to acknowledge sexism, but then not actually do anything about it.

Its pretty well documented is it? cool, provide those documents from a reputable/reliable source, you have essentially claimed that its rampant, so back that up.

https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/newsroom/newsn/2700/new-research-proves-gender-bias-extraordinarily-prevalent-in-stem-careers

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/12/14/gender-discrimination-comes-in-many-forms-for-todays-working-women/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-pay-gap-is-way-too-entrenched-to-be-solved-by-women-alone/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/half-women-stem-have-experienced-gender-discrimination-work-study-finds-n836116

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/aug/10/half-of-women-uk-have-been-sexually-harassed-at-work-tuc-study-everyday-sexism

https://www.nsopw.gov/(X(1)S(lcnxya1pq1atwvcxw420muju))/en-US/Education/FactsStatistics?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1#reference (A study that estimates that 18% of American women have been raped at some point in their life)

That was with a few minutes of searching. So, women are more likely to report gender discrimination than men, less likely to be hired in STEM than men, are paid less even after controlling for every possible variable, about half are harassed at work, and about a fifth are raped at some point in their life. I feel comfortable calling this "wide spread sexism."

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Personally, with the "Female gamers are worshipped" affirmation, I have to disagree. If they where worshipped in general, you wouldn't have people arguing if a girl is a true gamer or a poser based in how pretty she is.

Go on over to Twitch and check out a few girls channels. I don't have a lot of sympathy for girls who wear a low cut top, position a camera at a high angle and watch free money roll in then complain about being objectified..

As I loathe and hate the term "gamer", I don't spend much time thinking who is one and who isnt. And for that, I'm happier. But personally I don't have problems with people that do with his time whatever they want.

I have seen too much porn to claim the high ground in that kind of discussion.

EDIT: In response to your edit, yeah, thats hipocrisy for their part, but at the same time... does it matter?

My main problem with it is that I'm not a moderately attractive girl to get free money from nerds.

Sex sells.



Is a cheap marketing strategy but it works. To try to fight it is like fighting agaisnt windmills. You can accept that fact. You are not a moderately attractive girl. I'm sure you aren't an olimpic athlete or a nobel-winning scientist either. We need to recognise our limitations and live with them.

 Ketara wrote:

There's a profundity of such studies available for anyone who cares enough to go and look, but the issue is that those who have a serious enough problem with feminism won't do that. It's like any political position, if they're a die hard against something, most people will go to any extreme not to budge even an inch because so much of their world view is predicated upon it. Anything that agrees with you is accepted without question and anything that disagrees (if consulted at all) is rigorously examined for faults and discounted on minor factors.

Yes, EVERY STUDY SHOULD BE RIGOROUSLY EXAMINED FOR FAULTS. That's just fething common sense, even if you agree with it.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

There's a profundity of such studies available for anyone who cares enough to go and look, but the issue is that those who have a serious enough problem with feminism won't do that. It's like any political position, if they're a die hard against something, most people will go to any extreme not to budge even an inch because so much of their world view is predicated upon it. Anything that agrees with you is accepted without question and anything that disagrees (if consulted at all) is rigorously examined for faults and discounted on minor factors.

Yes, EVERY STUDY SHOULD BE RIGOROUSLY EXAMINED FOR FAULTS. That's just fething common sense, even if you agree with it.

Edit: No wait, my misreading there, you just emphasised that every study should be examined for flaws. Which is true. Not sure what it has to do with my point, but sure. You'll get no disagreement with me (or likely anyone) on that score.

 Sqorgar wrote:
I'd argue that while women are treated differently in the gamer community, I won't agree that they are treated worse. I have not seen any evidence that this is true. Everything I've seen happens to men and women alike, often in equal measures (I just got teabagged in Fortnite), and it seems like the true difference isn't in how they are treated, but how much they are offended by their treatment.

Man, I play games with my wife and she most definitely has been treated differently as soon as she speaks in voice chat, and in no way have the two of us gotten that treatment with anything like parity - I don't think I was harassed even once solely because I'm a man, to be honest. Anecdotal yadda yadda.

 Ketara wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

There's a profundity of such studies available for anyone who cares enough to go and look, but the issue is that those who have a serious enough problem with feminism won't do that. It's like any political position, if they're a die hard against something, most people will go to any extreme not to budge even an inch because so much of their world view is predicated upon it. Anything that agrees with you is accepted without question and anything that disagrees (if consulted at all) is rigorously examined for faults and discounted on minor factors.

Yes, EVERY STUDY SHOULD BE RIGOROUSLY EXAMINED FOR FAULTS. That's just fething common sense, even if you agree with it.

Spoiler:

Sure? You seem to have misread what I said. You conflated the word 'factors' for 'flaws', for example.

Edit: No wait, my misreading there, you just emphasised that every study should be examined for flaws. Which is true. Not sure what it has to do with my point, but sure. You'll get no disagreement with me (or likely anyone) on that score.

Also, even if a study is flawed, it doesn't prove the null hypothesis. Basically, we have oodles of studies that show some form of pervasive sexual discrimination. Even if they are all flawed (which starts to get absurd), they are still evidence of pervasive discrimination. It's not like there are barrels of studies showing no discrimination.

Look at one of the studies I linked to above, that roughly half of UK working women have been sexually harassed. Even if that study was off by an order of magnitude, that still means that one in twenty women have been sexually harassed. Which still sounds pervasive to me, but YMMV.

Who is this person that has begun a heated debate over sexism, not only in gaming, but now society at large?
Seriously, I had no idea who Sarkeesian was until all the outrage for her presence at GenCon started popping up everywhere.

Maybe we should just forget about all the politics and emotional outrage, and start playing some games together, and have more painting days?

Why is another person that's incredibly vocal about their hang-ups and issues, causing such a sensation? Who cares?

I think that's a better solution than screaming outrage at every turn because of some yahoo on the internet screaming on the top of their soapbox about whatever issue, real or imagined, there is this week.

I'll keep painting my minis, playing some games with my wife and kids, and ignore all the outrage for whatever there is to be outraged against this week.

When did this all become so political and polarized? This hobby is supposed to bring people together, not cause rifts and factions.

 Ouze wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I'd argue that while women are treated differently in the gamer community, I won't agree that they are treated worse. I have not seen any evidence that this is true. Everything I've seen happens to men and women alike, often in equal measures (I just got teabagged in Fortnite), and it seems like the true difference isn't in how they are treated, but how much they are offended by their treatment.

Man, I play games with my wife and she most definitely has been treated differently as soon as she speaks in voice chat, and in no way have the two of us gotten that treatment with anything like parity - I don't think I was harassed even once solely because I'm a man, to be honest. Anecdotal yadda yadda.

My wife once stopped into the GW store to pick up an order for me. She didn't feel harassed or anything, but she could feel the mood shift when she walked in. It was clear the employee wasn't used to female customers. (She's not exactly sensitive about that stuff either.)

 Polonius wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
Wait, are people here actually arguing that there is no sexism against women in society at large?

This stuff is pretty well documented. There are studies, literally hundreds of high profile cases in the media, and plenty of personal stories.

I supposed if your female friends and family have never shared any sexism with you, it could mean one of two things: 1) that you only know women that have had a completely different experience than most women, or 2) the women in your life have not shared their sexist experiences with you.

Nah I’m arguing with blowing it out of proportion and using circumstantial evidence to back it up, the “I saw it happen therefore it always happens everywhere” argument, it’s clearly nonsense and used to either close an argument down or provoke and emotional response.

But if it's pretty well documented to being common, then personal accounts make sense, right? I mean, there's evidence that low grade harassment toward women does happen all the time, if not quite everywhere.

It kind of seems like you want to acknowledge sexism, but then not actually do anything about it.

Its pretty well documented is it? cool, provide those documents from a reputable/reliable source, you have essentially claimed that its rampant, so back that up.

1: https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/newsroom/newsn/2700/new-research-proves-gender-bias-extraordinarily-prevalent-in-stem-careers

2: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/12/14/gender-discrimination-comes-in-many-forms-for-todays-working-women/

3: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-pay-gap-is-way-too-entrenched-to-be-solved-by-women-alone/

4: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/half-women-stem-have-experienced-gender-discrimination-work-study-finds-n836116

5: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/aug/10/half-of-women-uk-have-been-sexually-harassed-at-work-tuc-study-everyday-sexism

6: https://www.nsopw.gov/(X(1)S(lcnxya1pq1atwvcxw420muju))/en-US/Education/FactsStatistics?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1#reference (A study that estimates that 18% of American women have been raped at some point in their life)

That was with a few minutes of searching. So, women are more likely to report gender discrimination than men, less likely to be hired in STEM than men, are paid less even after controlling for every possible variable, about half are harassed at work, and about a fifth are raped at some point in their life. I feel comfortable calling this "wide spread sexism."

1: New York..... Does not support your claim that its rampant in UK

2: 42% of US woman...... disregarding as does not support your claim that its rampant in UK.

3: Also US

4: Also US

5: The everyday sexism project is not a reliable source.... but cudos for finally finding one in the UK!

6: Also US....

I can see that you only took a few minutes as you didnt even read your own articles haha, all you have shown here is that some biased articles show there may be an issue in the UNITED STATES, but lets play devils advocate here, could the same issues not be happening in the UK, sure, but you still need to prove that its rampant as you have claimed, I maintain that is a tiny minority and quite rare, prove me wrong, please.

 Polonius wrote:
My wife once stopped into the GW store to pick up an order for me. She didn't feel harassed or anything, but she could feel the mood shift when she walked in. It was clear the employee wasn't used to female customers. (She's not exactly sensitive about that stuff either.)

OTOH, my local GW has a shopgirl running the store the last couple times I've gone to pick up a MTO.

I certainly hope that she wasn't oppressed by my masculine presence, despite my best efforts to be polite during the 90 seconds it took to complete the pickup.

 Polonius wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I'd argue that while women are treated differently in the gamer community, I won't agree that they are treated worse. I have not seen any evidence that this is true. Everything I've seen happens to men and women alike, often in equal measures (I just got teabagged in Fortnite), and it seems like the true difference isn't in how they are treated, but how much they are offended by their treatment.

Man, I play games with my wife and she most definitely has been treated differently as soon as she speaks in voice chat, and in no way have the two of us gotten that treatment with anything like parity - I don't think I was harassed even once solely because I'm a man, to be honest. Anecdotal yadda yadda.

My wife once stopped into the GW store to pick up an order for me. She didn't feel harassed or anything, but she could feel the mood shift when she walked in. It was clear the employee wasn't used to female customers. (She's not exactly sensitive about that stuff either.)

Does being shy and awkward around women automatically make one a sexist?

 Polonius wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I'd argue that while women are treated differently in the gamer community, I won't agree that they are treated worse. I have not seen any evidence that this is true. Everything I've seen happens to men and women alike, often in equal measures (I just got teabagged in Fortnite), and it seems like the true difference isn't in how they are treated, but how much they are offended by their treatment.

Man, I play games with my wife and she most definitely has been treated differently as soon as she speaks in voice chat, and in no way have the two of us gotten that treatment with anything like parity - I don't think I was harassed even once solely because I'm a man, to be honest. Anecdotal yadda yadda.

My wife once stopped into the GW store to pick up an order for me. She didn't feel harassed or anything, but she could feel the mood shift when she walked in. It was clear the employee wasn't used to female customers. (She's not exactly sensitive about that stuff either.)

Social anxiety is different from sexism.

 Ghool wrote:
Who is this person that has begun a heated debate over sexism, not only in gaming, but now society at large?
Seriously, I had no idea who Sarkeesian was until all the outrage for her presence at GenCon started popping up everywhere.

Maybe we should just forget about all the politics and emotional outrage, and start playing some games together, and have more painting days?

Why is another person that's incredibly vocal about their hang-ups and issues, causing such a sensation? Who cares?

I think that's a better solution than screaming outrage at every turn because of some yahoo on the internet screaming on the top of their soapbox about whatever issue, real or imagined, there is this week.

I'll keep painting my minis, playing some games with my wife and kids, and ignore all the outrage for whatever there is to be outraged against this week.

When did this all become so political and polarized? This hobby is supposed to bring people together, not cause rifts and factions.

Thats the problem mate, people like sarkeesian have caused these issues to either come out or fanned the flames and thus caused issues in the first place, where as before it would just be nerds being socially awkward, now its seen as some sort of sexual discrimination with little to no thought as to the underlying reason for said behavior, its also caused people to become overly sensative to the issue, which again further compounds any problem as they start seeing problems where there are none or atributing ill intent where there is none.

Never atribute to malice that which can be atributed to stupidity.

Wow. So, there was a sub-tangent that started in the UK, Polonius said "wait, are we saying sexism doesn't happen in society at large?", was asked for cites, provided them, and then they were all dismissed because they weren't specifically for the UK? Despite that not being what was asked for?

That is literally the lamest gak I think I've ever seen on this forum.

 Ghool wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I'd argue that while women are treated differently in the gamer community, I won't agree that they are treated worse. I have not seen any evidence that this is true. Everything I've seen happens to men and women alike, often in equal measures (I just got teabagged in Fortnite), and it seems like the true difference isn't in how they are treated, but how much they are offended by their treatment.

Man, I play games with my wife and she most definitely has been treated differently as soon as she speaks in voice chat, and in no way have the two of us gotten that treatment with anything like parity - I don't think I was harassed even once solely because I'm a man, to be honest. Anecdotal yadda yadda.

My wife once stopped into the GW store to pick up an order for me. She didn't feel harassed or anything, but she could feel the mood shift when she walked in. It was clear the employee wasn't used to female customers. (She's not exactly sensitive about that stuff either.)

Does being shy and awkward around women automatically make one a sexist?

haha we all said the same thing at the same time

 Ghool wrote:
Does being shy and awkward around women automatically make one a sexist?

WHY NOT BOTH?!?

TBBT