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2018/06/07 17:16:07
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And many people also have the sex-positive view that there is nothing morally wrong with depictions of the bikini-clad female form.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
Google "He-Man".
It's cleavage on miniatures. Not any more sexualizing or unrealistic than the biceps of Conan the Barbarian.
It's fantasy universies. Not real. Imaginary. "Unrealistic" should be the least of your worries. Otherwise I am very angry they don't make miniatures of weak nerds with thick glasses. It's probably because of objectification. Or maybe because it does not sell.
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2018/06/07 17:18:34
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And many people also have the sex-positive view that there is nothing morally wrong with depictions of the bikini-clad female form.
Sexism and morality are not the same thing.
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
2018/06/07 17:22:32
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And many people also have the sex-positive view that there is nothing morally wrong with depictions of the bikini-clad female form.
Sexism and morality are not the same thing.
It's boobs. Every woman has two. Men like them because instinct of reproduction of the human species. That's the end of their story. There is absolutely nothing sexist about liking boobs. Quit tossing strong words on every single topic otherwise they lose their power all too soon. Keep the sexism bomb for when it is really needed.
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4000
2018/06/07 17:23:15
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And many people also have the sex-positive view that there is nothing morally wrong with depictions of the bikini-clad female form.
Sexism and morality are not the same thing.
No one is harmed by the sale and purchase of nude/naked/whatever figurines. There’s no sexism present.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
Google "He-Man".
It's cleavage on miniatures. Not any more sexualizing or unrealistic than the biceps of Conan the Barbarian.
It's fantasy universies. Not real. Imaginary. "Unrealistic" should be the least of your worries. Otherwise I am very angry they don't make miniatures of weak nerds with thick glasses. It's probably because of objectification. Or maybe because it does not sell.
Really that is your response? He-man? Yes he represents another form which people consider sexist, the fact that the hero always has to be the big muscly guy. Its Conan the Barbarian level stereotyping.
So handwaving it away with fantasy universes? Aren't you one of the same people complaing over in the SW threads that Rey was a Mary Sue because what she did was unrealistic. Methinks this smells of having your cake and eating it too.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And many people also have the sex-positive view that there is nothing morally wrong with depictions of the bikini-clad female form.
Sexism and morality are not the same thing.
It's boobs. Every woman has two. Men like them because instinct of reproduction of the human species. That's the end of their story. There is absolutely nothing sexist about liking boobs. Quit tossing strong words on every single topic otherwise they lose their power all too soon. Keep the sexism bomb for when it is really needed.
Uh everyone has two boobs? Look down, they are just more pronounced on women. There is nothing sexist about liking boobs, however it is sexist to treat women like they are nothin more than a pair of boobs in games such as the infamous DoA Beach Volleybal.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And many people also have the sex-positive view that there is nothing morally wrong with depictions of the bikini-clad female form.
Sexism and morality are not the same thing.
No one is harmed by the sale and purchase of nude/naked/whatever figurines. There’s no sexism present.
No one is harmed, except the objectification of women continues. You do realize that is one of the points right, just because nobody is harmed doesn't mean its ok. Opinions differ, selling boobie miniatures isn't going to be banned. Just realize where people are coming from on the other side.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/07 17:30:08
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
2018/06/07 17:31:11
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
I feel like someone's character, actions, and especially their achievements depend on context. When I was 12, for example, I swam the fastest 100m butterfly in Canada for my age-group. However... It was a slow year, I had had my growth spurt that year, and I was a mediocre athlete competing in a field of mediocre athletes because swimming is a very expensive, and very 'white' sport. My achievement was that thousands of better athletes were off playing other sports.
Likewise my character, and hence my actions, have been shaped by how I was raised, the advantages I had given to me, the battles that were fought on my behalf, and so on.
I feel like context matters. When you say you're a libertarian and a hunter that gives context to why you hold your opinions. If you're a libertarian, for example, then you're going to believe what someone does with what they were given is more important than what they were given. Is that fair? As a 'moderate' you're unlikely to believe that the market will correct for bad actors, like the snake-oil salesmen of the 19th centuries selling quack cures because they could get away with it. You see a place for things like taxes for roads and defense, but not for healthcare or a basic minimum income. Likewise as a hunter you're probably pretty invested in the notion of self-reliance and independence. Is that reasonable to assume?
These things also suggest things about your socio-economic status. You can afford to hunt, for example, and haven't been bankrupted yet. Possibly you can afford to run your own business rather than seeking employment. Maybe you can afford to pick up and move to more prosperous areas, or you can afford to remain in an area where you can hunt rather than seeking work in a city.
What I'm getting at, is that you have a position in life. You have a certain amount of economic power. You have certain physical advantages like not menstruating (I'm assuming you're a man), and people with your colour of skin are associated with a particular take on history as well as that history (I'm English by descent, for example. We're not simply 'white,' but we're 'White.'). You've had advantages, and you've had disadvantages. It's about imagining yourself in another's shoes, which is tricky to do when you haven't shared a personal experience by dint of your position in life. It's not impossible, but it requires a considerable amount of sympathy for people who are unlike you.
Which is, I think, how the Left (to over-generalize) came to what's called "Identity Politics" because the presumption of equality has some pretty nasty results when people aren't actually equal. And its amazing how many ways people can be advantaged or disadvantage. Some differences are so powerful, like requiring the use of a wheel-chair that you can't help but acknowledge them. And once you've noticed something, you tend to notice it more often. So you need to acknowledge that people not only have different abilities, but different cultures and experiences in life, and that people sharing a broad-enough set of these things have an identity.
Which is where intersectionality comes in. My favourite example being some women in a factory being told they couldn't represent black workers because they were women, and they couldn't represent women because they were black. The intersection of being black women marginalized them, it prevented them from being representatives and having a seat at the table where their concerns could be raised and perhaps addressed.
Like the whole "healthy heterosexual men like bikini-girls" thing. Okay, so do some healthy heterosexual women for some reason. Others are annoyed by being constantly represented as sexual objects, and don't see a compromise between sexy and practical representations because their position in life is such that 'sexy' representations of women are a constant pervasive annoyance. Maybe they are a minority, and the best way to maximize the profit of such products is to ignore their comfort and cash in favour of a larger demographic that doesn't consider their comfort. Politically speaking I think we found early on that minorities occasionally needed protections from the majority like constitutional guarantees of rights.
I don't think it's about censoring your enjoyment of sexualized depictions of women, so much as trying to be considerate of the annoyance it causes to women trying to enjoy the same product those depictions have been shoe-horned into.
I'm going to stop you: At no point in any civilized person's life should they be looking at people and making wild assumptions about who they are based on arbitrary features they can see or even little things. "Wealthy enough to hunt?" My father inherited a bolt-action rifle that was nearly 80 years old and used it to put food on our table so we didn't starve- we weren't scheduling trips to the Savanna to bag a Lion for the trophy room in the Hamptons. You know nothing about me. You don't know my actual race, or if I'm even a mixed race. You don't know my sexual orientation, my financial situation, my personal history, or anything. Assuming like you've done, based on this imaginary privilege stack is intellectually lazy. You're assuming things, based on what you've experienced at best- you're using stereotypes to categorize someone and engage with them. This is no different than assuming a black guy hasn't been educated, or that a Hispanic guy is an illegal immigrant. It's pathetic soft bigotry.
Simply put, "We can stereotype people as long as it works in their favor".
Horse-puckey. The point of NOT generalizing people is that peoples' identities are formed more by their experiences in life, and without knowing someone as an individual- you deny yourself knowing their situation. You say you think we should 'stop and consider and check our privilege'? All right, what if I told you- that maybe you should do the same. Not every white dude has an easy life. Not every black woman grew up poor and uneducated.
Stop being a bigot with your lower expectations for people who aren't white. Don't assume by default that a white dude is just set up for life. Maybe you were, but not everyone had it so easy. Not everyone had it so hard. Don't cheapen individuals by just lazily assuming things based on minimal information. Humanity- your neighbors- deserve better than that. Instead of assuming things based on stereotypes and trying to determine someone's privilege position, you could try something else: Don't be a coward and actually try to get to know someone as an individual.
Simply put- I do see everyone as an equal: A blank slate. I don't put a label on them. I want them to show me who they are. That's their right, and it's what I want. Let them demonstrate who they are by the content of their character, without me just making wild judgements about them like some kind of actual bigot.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
Meanwhile in the real world of actual adults, people understand that human beings are, by their very nature, sexual beings and admiration of the female or male form is entirely acceptable. And in the case of little plastic dollies or digital avatars- they're not really people, and anyone who sees this and comes unhinged has two options- ignore it, deal with it, or seek psychiatric help.
If some woman sees a cartoon drawing and gets upset over it, that's a personal problem. The world isn't going to adapt to every emotionally fragile snowflake, just because they whine about it. In fact, I take absolute delight in the fact that the real world tends to eat them alive.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/07 17:38:42
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2018/06/07 17:37:52
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
Meanwhile in the real world of actual adults, people understand that human beings are, by their very nature, sexual beings and admiration of the female or male form is entirely acceptable. And in the case of little plastic dollies or digital avatars- they're not really people, and anyone who sees this and comes unhinged has two options- ignore it, deal with it, or seek psychiatric help.
Yes admiration is entirely acceptable. Making stick avatars with boobs so large it would break their spine is a whole seperate class from the female form, just as He-Man steroid monsters are for men. Those people might need a human anatomy lesson as opposed to professional help depending on how sexual a bunch of pixels are going to get to them.
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
2018/06/07 17:39:32
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
Google "He-Man".
It's cleavage on miniatures. Not any more sexualizing or unrealistic than the biceps of Conan the Barbarian.
It's fantasy universies. Not real. Imaginary. "Unrealistic" should be the least of your worries. Otherwise I am very angry they don't make miniatures of weak nerds with thick glasses. It's probably because of objectification. Or maybe because it does not sell.
Really that is your response? He-man? Yes he represents another form which people consider sexist, the fact that the hero always has to be the big muscly guy. Its Conan the Barbarian level stereotyping.
So handwaving it away with fantasy universes? Aren't you one of the same people complaing over in the SW threads that Rey was a Mary Sue because what she did was unrealistic. Methinks this smells of having your cake and eating it too.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And many people also have the sex-positive view that there is nothing morally wrong with depictions of the bikini-clad female form.
Sexism and morality are not the same thing.
It's boobs. Every woman has two. Men like them because instinct of reproduction of the human species. That's the end of their story. There is absolutely nothing sexist about liking boobs. Quit tossing strong words on every single topic otherwise they lose their power all too soon. Keep the sexism bomb for when it is really needed.
Uh everyone has two boobs? Look down, they are just more pronounced on women. There is nothing sexist about liking boobs, however it is sexist to treat women like they are nothin more than a pair of boobs in games such as the infamous DoA Beach Volleybal.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And many people also have the sex-positive view that there is nothing morally wrong with depictions of the bikini-clad female form.
Sexism and morality are not the same thing.
No one is harmed by the sale and purchase of nude/naked/whatever figurines. There’s no sexism present.
No one is harmed, except the objectification of women continues. You do realize that is one of the points right, just because nobody is harmed doesn't mean its ok. Opinions differ, selling boobie miniatures isn't going to be banned. Just realize where people are coming from on the other side.
But in fact I do understand what you’re trying to say- Figuirines can objectify women, and thus be detrimental to female empowerment. Which I disagree with. They don’t shout, “Women are objects, and should be treated as such”. They’re objects. They’re more akin to fertility fetishes. All people like attractive people, and attractive representations of people. There is nothing wrong with that, not purchasing, selling, or making them. They’re objects- they can’t objectify anything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/07 17:43:12
Yes admiration is entirely acceptable. Making stick avatars with boobs so large it would break their spine is a whole seperate class from the female form, just as He-Man steroid monsters are for men. Those people might need a human anatomy lesson as opposed to professional help depending on how sexual a bunch of pixels are going to get to them.
Who are you to judge someone's preference? Don't like it? Don't use it. Ignore it. Walk away. Express your dislike, if you feel entitled to do so but don't expect them to give a damn.
Be. An. Adult.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sinful Hero wrote: But in fact I do understand what you’re trying to say- Figuirines can objectify women, and thus be detrimental to female empowerment. Which I disagree with. They don’t shout, “Women are objects, and should be treated as such”. They’re objects. They’re more akin to fertility fetishes. Both men and women like attractive people, and attractive representations of people. There is nothing wrong with that, not purchasing, selling, or making them. They’re objects- they can’t objectify anything.
My favorite part of these discussions is how people who claim to care about women and want to empower them... always seem to speak for them like they're emotionally and psychologically fragile children that can't cope with the world.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/07 17:41:43
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2018/06/07 17:44:13
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
Google "He-Man".
It's cleavage on miniatures. Not any more sexualizing or unrealistic than the biceps of Conan the Barbarian.
It's fantasy universies. Not real. Imaginary. "Unrealistic" should be the least of your worries. Otherwise I am very angry they don't make miniatures of weak nerds with thick glasses. It's probably because of objectification. Or maybe because it does not sell.
Really that is your response? He-man? Yes he represents another form which people consider sexist, the fact that the hero always has to be the big muscly guy. Its Conan the Barbarian level stereotyping.
So handwaving it away with fantasy universes? Aren't you one of the same people complaing over in the SW threads that Rey was a Mary Sue because what she did was unrealistic. Methinks this smells of having your cake and eating it too.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And many people also have the sex-positive view that there is nothing morally wrong with depictions of the bikini-clad female form.
Sexism and morality are not the same thing.
It's boobs. Every woman has two. Men like them because instinct of reproduction of the human species. That's the end of their story. There is absolutely nothing sexist about liking boobs. Quit tossing strong words on every single topic otherwise they lose their power all too soon. Keep the sexism bomb for when it is really needed.
Uh everyone has two boobs? Look down, they are just more pronounced on women. There is nothing sexist about liking boobs, however it is sexist to treat women like they are nothin more than a pair of boobs in games such as the infamous DoA Beach Volleybal.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And many people also have the sex-positive view that there is nothing morally wrong with depictions of the bikini-clad female form.
Sexism and morality are not the same thing.
No one is harmed by the sale and purchase of nude/naked/whatever figurines. There’s no sexism present.
No one is harmed, except the objectification of women continues. You do realize that is one of the points right, just because nobody is harmed doesn't mean its ok. Opinions differ, selling boobie miniatures isn't going to be banned. Just realize where people are coming from on the other side.
But in fact I do understand what you’re trying to say- Figuirines can objectify women, and thus be detrimental to female empowerment. Which I disagree with. They don’t shout, “Women are objects, and should be treated as such”. They’re objects. They’re more akin to fertility fetishes. Both men and women like attractive people, and attractive representations of people. There is nothing wrong with that, not purchasing, selling, or making them. They’re objects- they can’t objectify anything.
its not that they shout they should be treated as such, its the underlying idea that the female body is a commodity to sell your stuff with. And to be honest, most sexualized figures or game avatars look absolutely horrific due to the attitude of slapping a pair of tits on and people will buy it. We have all seen the examples of that on Dakka.
Personally I fall on the side of, I don't care if people want to do it over there, just don't try to push it into my part when it comes to the above. For heaven's sake, Warhammer Total War has people calling for sexier female units or that this or that female character looks like a man in drags. Its Total War jeez!
Yes admiration is entirely acceptable. Making stick avatars with boobs so large it would break their spine is a whole seperate class from the female form, just as He-Man steroid monsters are for men. Those people might need a human anatomy lesson as opposed to professional help depending on how sexual a bunch of pixels are going to get to them.
Who are you to judge someone's preference? Don't like it? Don't use it. Ignore it. Walk away. Express your dislike, if you feel entitled to do so but don't expect them to give a damn.
Be. An. Adult.
Sure, but being an adult goes both ways.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/07 17:45:57
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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2000 pts Imperial Fists
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2018/06/07 17:46:25
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Disciple of Fate wrote: its not that they shout they should be treated as such, its the underlying idea that the female body is a commodity to sell your stuff with. And to be honest, most sexualized figures or game avatars look absolutely horrific due to the attitude of slapping a pair of tits on and people will buy it. We have all seen the examples of that on Dakka.
Are you kink-shaming?
No, really- I'm waiting for you to tell me who you are to judge people based upon what they like.
If my 'preference' bothers someone, why should I care? Or do we need to stop having certain things because certain groups are uncomfortable with it? Oh, the Fundamentalist Christians will eat that up!
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2018/06/07 17:47:31
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
My favorite part of these discussions is how people who claim to care about women and want to empower them... always seem to speak for them like they're emotionally and psychologically fragile children that can't cope with the world.
I can put my partner on, but I don't think the mods could cope with that.
Disciple of Fate wrote: its not that they shout they should be treated as such, its the underlying idea that the female body is a commodity to sell your stuff with. And to be honest, most sexualized figures or game avatars look absolutely horrific due to the attitude of slapping a pair of tits on and people will buy it. We have all seen the examples of that on Dakka.
Are you kink-shaming?
No, really- I'm waiting for you to tell me who you are to judge people based upon what they like.
If my 'preference' bothers someone, why should I care? Or do we need to stop having certain things because certain groups are uncomfortable with it? Oh, the Fundamentalist Christians will eat that up!
Everything can be framed as a kink, do you want to go down that road?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/07 17:48:48
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
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3500 pts Peridia Prime
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Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
2018/06/07 17:49:24
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Good, then as an adult: "If this piece of plastic/resin/metal offends you then please kindly piss off, because I don't care. I like it and I don't need your permission to enjoy it. I owe you nothing." And then they can go cry about it for all I care.
I am not in the business of trying to curb my entertainment to appease unstable snowflakes. I understand some degree of social decency (I wouldn't put nude models or something lewd on a table at the FLGS), but if someone takes issue with me owning, liking, or desiring something- then I am under no obligation to care what they think, they can go be mad about it somewhere else.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/07 17:50:08
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2018/06/07 17:51:37
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Galas wrote: I'm in a strange position because I like bikini suits but I don't like them in my serious videogames/comics/movies, because when I try to take a strong female character serious its hard to do it when she wears plate bikini. It breaks my inmersion. (Sisters of Battle, for example. I have no problem with boob-plate, I think as long as isn't too exagerated is a middle ground to make the feminine form more clear. Plus, tradition on how is the design of the faction. But I don't have a problem with normal plate armour for females.)
In the other hand, if the product is comical/the costume fits the character/ its an erotic/porn product I have no problems with it.
I feel the same way. I'm cool with KDM being KDM, but never want to see a Sister of Battle in a Prodos-style armored thong. For me, the issue is when people push for sexy when sexy isn't called for.
Its hilarious though, we're arguing right now that if the people on one side have to be adults and shut up about it while at the same time arguing one side shouldn't have their hobby exposed to other opinions like adults.
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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2018/06/07 17:53:53
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
@Disciple of Fate
(I’m on mobile, so I’m avoiding that unwieldy reply chain)
Lol, we’ve all seen terrible representions of the sexes, and there’s a lot out there.
My issue is your assertion that figures are somehow reinforcing that women are objects- “the idea that the female body is a commodity to sell your stuff with”. That’s not the intention at all. It’s merely that it’s an (usually)attractive representation of the female form, would you like to purchase it?
Haven’t delved into the Total War thing, but wanting more attractive people in games isn’t a crime, nor an example of the desire to objectify women. Everyone wants to see attractive people, and if that’s a market that Total War wants to cater to they will.
Not often I write a bunch of stuff, look at it before hitting "submit" and think it is a bunch of BS on my part and erase it all.
Anita is decent looking person who presents reasonably well thought out views on pretty controversial material from a female viewpoint.
I think I tend to react to extremes and it always is from an exclusive and divisive slant.
That picture with her post of "Dear dudes, Please don't surreptitiously take photos of women without their knowledge or consent.", I think that taking pictures of "anyone" of that nature is more valid.
I realize that any beef I may have about her is really observing that she is leveraging what "privilege" she has to the max and getting attention.
We can admire, be jealous of or out and out dislike her work but it gets her recognized nonetheless.
I am impressed how fast and far this topic has gone.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/07 17:55:44
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2018/06/07 17:55:33
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Disciple of Fate wrote: Its hilarious though, we're arguing right now that if the people on one side have to be adults and shut up about it while at the same time arguing one side shouldn't have their hobby exposed to other opinions like adults.
Oh, no- they are absolutely free to have their opinions and express them openly.
And I'm just as free to call them a fragile child and tell them to shove their opinion sideways up their ass and talk a walk into the interstate.
Welcome to freedom, it's a beautiful thing.
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2018/06/07 17:56:22
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Disciple of Fate wrote: Its hilarious though, we're arguing right now that if the people on one side have to be adults and shut up about it while at the same time arguing one side shouldn't have their hobby exposed to other opinions like adults.
Oh, no- they are absolutely free to have their opinions and express them openly.
And I'm just as free to call them a fragile child and tell them to shove their opinion sideways up their ass and talk a walk into the interstate.
Welcome to freedom, it's a beautiful thing.
Except when it makes the hobby "political"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/07 17:57:24
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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2018/06/07 18:00:36
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Oh, they're totally free to be 'political' at the table. And I'm free to, once again, tell them to shove it up their ass and go bother someone else or have the establishment hurl them out into the streets for violating their rules. It's not about what they can or can't do. It's about what I will and won't tolerate. You can do anything you want, just don't get buttmad when the response isn't a nod, a hug, and a booty-pat with reassurances that you're right.
Just because you have a right to it, doesn't mean you have a right to a warm reception or even respect.
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2018/06/07 18:03:42
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Sinful Hero wrote: @Disciple of Fate
(I’m on mobile, so I’m avoiding that unwieldy reply chain)
Lol, we’ve all seen terrible representions of the sexes, and there’s a lot out there.
My issue is your assertion that figures are somehow reinforcing that women are objects- “the idea that the female body is a commodity to sell your stuff with”. That’s not the intention at all. It’s merely that it’s an (usually)attractive representation of the female form, would you like to purchase it?
Haven’t delved into the Total War thing, but wanting more attractive people in games isn’t a crime, nor an example of the desire to objectify women. Everyone wants to see attractive people, and if that’s a market that Total War wants to cater to they will.
Its frequently an unusually attractive representation of the female form designed to sell on the basis of that attractiveness. If its not just boobs on a SM that is. Rememver that thread?
Its people from the other side pushing their agenda just as much as Sarkeesian with sexist language such as it looks like a man in drag or a dog. And its not a crime, but its fething stupid in a game where these characters are a few pixles big at most times. But they already seems to have settled on the fact that they aren't attractive? Who decides that? The people calling female characters men in drag in the first place?
Oh, they're totally free to be 'political' at the table. And I'm free to, once again, tell them to shove it up their ass and go bother someone else or have the establishment hurl them out into the streets for violating their rules. It's not about what they can or can't do. It's about what I will and won't tolerate. You can do anything you want, just don't get buttmad when the response isn't a nod, a hug, and a booty-pat with reassurances that you're right.
Just because you have a right to it, doesn't mean you have a right to a warm reception or even respect.
But you're not the only person in the thread or the hobby. I think I have a decent idea of your gaming club attitude based on yesterday. It was more of a general statement.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/07 18:08:46
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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2018/06/07 18:10:16
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Sinful Hero wrote: @Disciple of Fate
(I’m on mobile, so I’m avoiding that unwieldy reply chain)
Lol, we’ve all seen terrible representions of the sexes, and there’s a lot out there.
My issue is your assertion that figures are somehow reinforcing that women are objects- “the idea that the female body is a commodity to sell your stuff with”. That’s not the intention at all. It’s merely that it’s an (usually)attractive representation of the female form, would you like to purchase it?
Haven’t delved into the Total War thing, but wanting more attractive people in games isn’t a crime, nor an example of the desire to objectify women. Everyone wants to see attractive people, and if that’s a market that Total War wants to cater to they will.
Its frequently an unusually attractive representation of the female form designed to sell on the basis of that attractiveness. If its not just boobs on a SM that is.
Its people from the other side pushing their agenda just as much as Sarkeesian with sexist language such as it looks like a man in drag or a dog. And its not a crime, but its fething stupid in a game where these characters are a few pixles big at most times. But they already seems to have settled on the fact that they aren't attractive? Who decides that? The people calling female characters men in drag in the first place?
Oh, they're totally free to be 'political' at the table. And I'm free to, once again, tell them to shove it up their ass and go bother someone else or have the establishment hurl them out into the streets for violating their rules. It's not about what they can or can't do. It's about what I will and won't tolerate. You can do anything you want, just don't get buttmad when the response isn't a nod, a hug, and a booty-pat with reassurances that you're right.
Just because you have a right to it, doesn't mean you have a right to a warm reception or even respect.
But you're not the only person in the thread or the hobby. I think I have a decent idea of your gaming club attitude based on yesterday. It was more of a general statement.
Pretty sure I don’t want to try to argue what is and isn’t attractive, being as subjective as it is. It wasn’t my point, either. Objects are not objectification. No one is being reduced to being an object by an object used to represent a person.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Laws that differ from coubtry to country. Even the age of consent is different between Western countries. Illegal is a terrible argument.
I'm just going to let you know now, you don't want to go down this road because I automatically get suspicious about people who express skepticism about 'age of consent' laws. So, you might wanna just make a hard turn away from this topic.
But you're not the only person in the thread or the hobby. I think I have a decent idea of your gaming club attitude based on yesterday. It was more of a general statement.
You're right. I'm not. Nor am I concerned about appeasing literally every single person in the hobby. And if something as trivial as me liking a boob model (which, I don't have any, but hypothetically) triggers someone and upsets them- then good. They can be mad. They can be an adult and kick rocks and go find someone else to play with. I have effectively acted as a deterrent to the exact sort of person I want nothing to do with. This is a feature, not a bug; and quite frankly I have absolutely no intention to change it, especially because some fragile snowflake can't distinguish fantasy from reality.
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2018/06/07 18:20:48
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And those same people are oddly silent on the same thing happening to men
2018/06/07 18:21:59
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
Pretty sure I don’t want to try to argue what is and isn’t attractive, being as subjective as it is. It wasn’t my point, either. Objects are not objectification. No one is being reduced to being an object by an object used to represent a person.
And my point wasn't that women are reduced to objects either, its that in parts of the hobby the female body becomes/is treated as an object.
My Total War example is that the subjectivity of attractiveness can also be hiding misogyny.
To tie in to my overall overall point, the issue is not adressing these topics allows misogynists to hide in our community. You aren't one for liking the figures mind you in my view. But the group that feels most attacked will quickly show their real face. It happened to Sarkeesian the first time and they are seemingly coming out of the woodworks on other sites as well. Not adressing it will only allow the bad eggs to fester and damage the community. Take these people out of the community and when people like Sarkeesian show up she would be flailing against the wind, because she isn't going to be validated by the bad eggs we removed.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Lol, twisted and evil universe. Meanwhile in the real world plenty of people see the objectification and unrealistic sexualized treatment of female bodies as sexist.
And those same people are oddly silent on the same thing happening to men
Because feminism is all about putting men first amiright
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/07 18:23:07
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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2018/06/07 18:23:30
Subject: Anita Sarkeesian to be an "Industry Guest of Honor" at GenCon 2018?
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
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