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 Da Boss wrote:
I have seen lots of racially motivated abuse and commentary about the actress because she is asian. It is a disgrace. The amount of open racism I see on the internet has increased markedly in recent years and I've had enough of it.

Treading carefully here as racism is unacceptable and wrong, but given how the internet is powered by hyperbole and sensationalism I sometimes wonder if the abuse is just really lazy trolling, ie pick an obvious trait and wail on it ?

And just to make it clear racism is bad m'kay

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I have seen lots of racially motivated abuse and commentary about the actress because she is asian. It is a disgrace. The amount of open racism I see on the internet has increased markedly in recent years and I've had enough of it.

Treading carefully here as racism is unacceptable and wrong, but given how the internet is powered by hyperbole and sensationalism I sometimes wonder if the abuse is just really lazy trolling, ie pick an obvious trait and wail on it ?

And just to make it clear racism is bad m'kay

By all account membership in the KKK has been on the rise since Americas last election cycle. As much as I would love for it to not be true, I think racism in the USA is a much bigger problem then it appears to be. Which says a lot since it is already WAY too big of a problem before you factor that in.

There are legal KKK organizations in the USA? Like actual groups you can enroll?

topaxygouroun i wrote:
There are legal KKK organizations in the USA? Like actual groups you can enroll?

Yup. Freedom of speech taken to unreasonable extremes.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2017-08-14/the-kkk-is-still-based-in-22-states-in-the-us-in-2017

 Lance845 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
There are legal KKK organizations in the USA? Like actual groups you can enroll?

Yup. Freedom of speech taken to unreasonable extremes.

I thought you guys had guns for a reason over there.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
There are legal KKK organizations in the USA? Like actual groups you can enroll?

Yup. Freedom of speech taken to unreasonable extremes.

I thought you guys had guns for a reason over there.

Funny. The KKK loves their guns. They think a war of the races is coming and they are arming up.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I have seen lots of racially motivated abuse and commentary about the actress because she is asian. It is a disgrace. The amount of open racism I see on the internet has increased markedly in recent years and I've had enough of it.

That's what happens when we give kids internet connection and a mask to hide behind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I wonder how much fan gak the various white male actors ni the film have had to put up with.

One suspects it may be rather less.

Oh dear, I broke the swear filter again. I seem to have a facility for inventing new scatalogical terminology.

Well from the main characters, only Kylo Ren is a white male, and be assured he got a huge pile of gak himself. In fact he was the only SW character ever to become a meme.

I know you want it to, but this is not a gender issue.

Leey Tran received abuse based on her race and gender.

Did Adam Driver receive abuse based on his race and gender?

 Kilkrazy wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I have seen lots of racially motivated abuse and commentary about the actress because she is asian. It is a disgrace. The amount of open racism I see on the internet has increased markedly in recent years and I've had enough of it.

That's what happens when we give kids internet connection and a mask to hide behind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I wonder how much fan gak the various white male actors ni the film have had to put up with.

One suspects it may be rather less.

Oh dear, I broke the swear filter again. I seem to have a facility for inventing new scatalogical terminology.

Well from the main characters, only Kylo Ren is a white male, and be assured he got a huge pile of gak himself. In fact he was the only SW character ever to become a meme.

I know you want it to, but this is not a gender issue.

Leey Tran received abuse based on her race and gender.

Did Adam Driver receive abuse based on his race and gender?

So it's ok to bully people as long as it's not about what YOU find more intimate?

Kylo Ren and Rose both received flakk enough to make them feel like gak. The only difference I see is that Adam Driver did not have any supporting articles like the one that initiated this topic. If anything, every last media outlet jumped on the "Emo Kylo Ren" bandwagon. At least Kelly Tran has someone to back her up.

White men aren't oppressed and therefore don't deserve sympathy.

[/sarcasm]

The argument isn't about whether it's acceptable to bully people.

The argument is about whether people are getting bullied because of their race and gender.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I have seen lots of racially motivated abuse and commentary about the actress because she is asian. It is a disgrace. The amount of open racism I see on the internet has increased markedly in recent years and I've had enough of it.

That's what happens when we give kids internet connection and a mask to hide behind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I wonder how much fan gak the various white male actors ni the film have had to put up with.

One suspects it may be rather less.

Oh dear, I broke the swear filter again. I seem to have a facility for inventing new scatalogical terminology.

Well from the main characters, only Kylo Ren is a white male, and be assured he got a huge pile of gak himself. In fact he was the only SW character ever to become a meme.

I know you want it to, but this is not a gender issue.

Leey Tran received abuse based on her race and gender.

Did Adam Driver receive abuse based on his race and gender?

So it's ok to bully people as long as it's not about what YOU find more intimate?

Kylo Ren and Rose both received flakk enough to make them feel like gak. The only difference I see is that Adam Driver did not have any supporting articles like the one that initiated this topic. If anything, every last media outlet jumped on the "Emo Kylo Ren" bandwagon. At least Kelly Tran has someone to back her up.

Calling the character emo and calling the actress racial and gender slurs are 2 very different things. As has been stated in this very thread, it's fine to criticize fictional characters, writing, the movie itself. It's not ok to attack actual people for their basic genetic make up.

Nobody attacked Adam Driver for who he is. They attacked the character he played in the movie. Tran is being attacked as a person in addition to her character. Daisy Ridley has been attacked for being female. KK has been attacked for being female. Can you find any source for an attack on Adam Driver because hes a dude? Or is it all just making cracks on Kylo for being a whiny Vader wanna-be?

 Lance845 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I have seen lots of racially motivated abuse and commentary about the actress because she is asian. It is a disgrace. The amount of open racism I see on the internet has increased markedly in recent years and I've had enough of it.

That's what happens when we give kids internet connection and a mask to hide behind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I wonder how much fan gak the various white male actors ni the film have had to put up with.

One suspects it may be rather less.

Oh dear, I broke the swear filter again. I seem to have a facility for inventing new scatalogical terminology.

Well from the main characters, only Kylo Ren is a white male, and be assured he got a huge pile of gak himself. In fact he was the only SW character ever to become a meme.

I know you want it to, but this is not a gender issue.

Leey Tran received abuse based on her race and gender.

Did Adam Driver receive abuse based on his race and gender?

So it's ok to bully people as long as it's not about what YOU find more intimate?

Kylo Ren and Rose both received flakk enough to make them feel like gak. The only difference I see is that Adam Driver did not have any supporting articles like the one that initiated this topic. If anything, every last media outlet jumped on the "Emo Kylo Ren" bandwagon. At least Kelly Tran has someone to back her up.

Calling the character emo and calling the actress racial and gender slurs are 2 very different things. As has been stated in this very thread, it's fine to criticize fictional characters, writing, the movie itself. It's not ok to attack actual people for their basic genetic make up.

Nobody attacked Adam Driver for who he is. They attacked the character he played in the movie. Tran is being attacked as a person in addition to her character. Daisy Ridley has been attacked for being female KK has been attacked for being female. Can you find any source for an attack on Adam Driver because hes a dude? Or is it all just making cracks on Kylo for being a whiny Vader wanna-be?

Bullgak. When Adam Driver removed his helmet, his face and his nose became such huge memes that Daisy Ridley and Kelly Tran will never hope to match. Everyone trolled Driver because of his nose way before they poke fun at Kylo Ren.

Also, we differ in our beliefes. You think that it's ok to ridicule people on some occasions but not on others. I think it's not ok to ridicule people under ANY circumstances or under any justification, be it gender, race, religion, belief, facial characteristic or favorite dish etc.


EDIT: Wouldn't you know it? All it takes is to google "Adam Driver nose":

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/mar/29/adam-driver-lots-things-said-about-face-interview

Once again nerdom sinks to a new low.

I get that Rose was a bad character, but this is vile. Mock the character all you want, as the character isnt real, but attacking the person?

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

Calling the character emo and calling the actress racial and gender slurs are 2 very different things. As has been stated in this very thread, it's fine to criticize fictional characters, writing, the movie itself. It's not ok to attack actual people for their basic genetic make up.

Nobody attacked Adam Driver for who he is. They attacked the character he played in the movie. Tran is being attacked as a person in addition to her character. Daisy Ridley has been attacked for being female KK has been attacked for being female. Can you find any source for an attack on Adam Driver because hes a dude? Or is it all just making cracks on Kylo for being a whiny Vader wanna-be?

Bullgak. When Adam Driver removed his helmet, his face and his nose became such huge memes that Daisy Ridley and Kelly Tran will never hope to match. Everyone trolled Driver because of his nose way before they poke fun at Kylo Ren.

Also, we differ in our beliefes. You think that it's ok to ridicule people on some occasions but not on others. I think it's not ok to ridicule people under ANY circumstances or under any justification, be it gender, race, religion, belief, facial characteristic or favorite dish etc.


EDIT: Wouldn't you know it? All it takes is to google "Adam Driver nose":

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/mar/29/adam-driver-lots-things-said-about-face-interview

Once again, quote me saying it was ok to make fun of Adam Drivers nose. Please. Find anything I said anywhere about it being ok to make fun of the person and not the character.

THAT being said, no. The amount of poking fun at Adam Drivers nose is not the same as the HATE spewed at the females for being female or Tran for not being white. That doesn't make it okay mind you. But there is an actual difference between insensitive poking fun and actual hate speech. Nobody told Adam Driver he should go die in a ditch or that he didn't belong because he had a nose people found funny. It's a difference of magnitude which makes it a difference of kind. A kid teasing another kid because of his shoes is not the same thing as a kid teasing another kid because his eyes are a different shape. That shouldn't need to be explained.

If you make racist statements "just to get a reaction" or to "troll", you are a racist making racist statements. It is not rocket science.

The internet is fething horrible these days.

 Lance845 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

Calling the character emo and calling the actress racial and gender slurs are 2 very different things. As has been stated in this very thread, it's fine to criticize fictional characters, writing, the movie itself. It's not ok to attack actual people for their basic genetic make up.

Nobody attacked Adam Driver for who he is. They attacked the character he played in the movie. Tran is being attacked as a person in addition to her character. Daisy Ridley has been attacked for being female KK has been attacked for being female. Can you find any source for an attack on Adam Driver because hes a dude? Or is it all just making cracks on Kylo for being a whiny Vader wanna-be?

Bullgak. When Adam Driver removed his helmet, his face and his nose became such huge memes that Daisy Ridley and Kelly Tran will never hope to match. Everyone trolled Driver because of his nose way before they poke fun at Kylo Ren.

Also, we differ in our beliefes. You think that it's ok to ridicule people on some occasions but not on others. I think it's not ok to ridicule people under ANY circumstances or under any justification, be it gender, race, religion, belief, facial characteristic or favorite dish etc.


EDIT: Wouldn't you know it? All it takes is to google "Adam Driver nose":

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/mar/29/adam-driver-lots-things-said-about-face-interview

Once again, quote me saying it was ok to make fun of Adam Drivers nose. Please. Find anything I said anywhere about it being ok to make fun of the person and not the character.

I will quote you on this:

Nobody attacked Adam Driver for who he is.

Yes they very much did. But instead of aknowledging this, you jump to the counter-offense "When did I say that making fun of his nose is ok?" That's moving the goalposts.

It doesn't matter if he was poked because he's a dude or because of his nose or because he played Kylo Ren. All it matters - all it should matter is that a human being was bullied. The trigger behind bullying is irrelevant. And it must stay irrelevant, otherwise we split bullying into acceptable bullying and unacceptable bullying.

The point I am making is that all bullying is detestable. It doesn't matter where the source comes from. And you are gatekeeping if you arguing that a person has the right to feel offended because his identity was shaken, but another person does not have that right if the fruit off his effort was shaken equally.

Explain to me why ridiculing Kylo Ren would be less harmful for Adam Driver than ridiculing Kelly Tran because she is asian. While Kylo Ren will not be insulted, that's for certain, Adam Driver could very well be, because he sees his effort being trashed online.

The Guardian interviewer wrote:You must have been told before that you have an amazing unusual face? It’s a compliment - not being the standard Hollywood McHunk has worked in your favour.

Adam Driver wrote:I have been told before that I have an unusual face. But my face is my face. I had a whole life before acting, over the years. Lots of things have been said about my face.

It really is not clear where the abuse comes in.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

EDIT: Wouldn't you know it? All it takes is to google "Adam Driver nose":

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/mar/29/adam-driver-lots-things-said-about-face-interview

Did you READ the article you linked to?

It's an interview with Driver. This is the whole bit about his face.

You must have been told before that you have an amazing unusual face? It’s a compliment - not being the standard Hollywood McHunk has worked in your favour.

I have been told before that I have an unusual face. But my face is my face. I had a whole life before acting, over the years. Lots of things have been said about my face.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

Calling the character emo and calling the actress racial and gender slurs are 2 very different things. As has been stated in this very thread, it's fine to criticize fictional characters, writing, the movie itself. It's not ok to attack actual people for their basic genetic make up.

Nobody attacked Adam Driver for who he is. They attacked the character he played in the movie. Tran is being attacked as a person in addition to her character. Daisy Ridley has been attacked for being female KK has been attacked for being female. Can you find any source for an attack on Adam Driver because hes a dude? Or is it all just making cracks on Kylo for being a whiny Vader wanna-be?

Bullgak. When Adam Driver removed his helmet, his face and his nose became such huge memes that Daisy Ridley and Kelly Tran will never hope to match. Everyone trolled Driver because of his nose way before they poke fun at Kylo Ren.

Also, we differ in our beliefes. You think that it's ok to ridicule people on some occasions but not on others. I think it's not ok to ridicule people under ANY circumstances or under any justification, be it gender, race, religion, belief, facial characteristic or favorite dish etc.


EDIT: Wouldn't you know it? All it takes is to google "Adam Driver nose":

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/mar/29/adam-driver-lots-things-said-about-face-interview

Once again, quote me saying it was ok to make fun of Adam Drivers nose. Please. Find anything I said anywhere about it being ok to make fun of the person and not the character.

I will quote you on this:

Nobody attacked Adam Driver for who he is.

Yes they very much did. But instead of aknowledging this, you jump to the counter-offense "When did I say that making fun of his nose is ok?" That's moving the goalposts.

It doesn't matter if he was poked because he's a dude or because of his nose or because he played Kylo Ren. All it matters - all it should matter is that a human being was bullied. The trigger behind bullying is irrelevant. And it must stay irrelevant, otherwise we split bullying into acceptable bullying and unacceptable bullying.

The point I am making is that all bullying is detestable. It doesn't matter where the source comes from. And you are gatekeeping if you arguing that a person has the right to feel offended because his identity was shaken, but another person does not have that right if the fruit off his effort was shaken equally.

Explain to me why ridiculing Kylo Ren would be less harmful for Adam Driver than ridiculing Kelly Tran because she is asian. While Kylo Ren will not be insulted, that's for certain, Adam Driver could very well be, because he sees his effort being trashed online.

Kylo Ren is a character, Kelly Tran is a real person.

Kelly Tran is a member of an abused minority group. Adam Driver is a member of the most privileged majority group in the English speaking world.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

Calling the character emo and calling the actress racial and gender slurs are 2 very different things. As has been stated in this very thread, it's fine to criticize fictional characters, writing, the movie itself. It's not ok to attack actual people for their basic genetic make up.

Nobody attacked Adam Driver for who he is. They attacked the character he played in the movie. Tran is being attacked as a person in addition to her character. Daisy Ridley has been attacked for being female KK has been attacked for being female. Can you find any source for an attack on Adam Driver because hes a dude? Or is it all just making cracks on Kylo for being a whiny Vader wanna-be?

Bullgak. When Adam Driver removed his helmet, his face and his nose became such huge memes that Daisy Ridley and Kelly Tran will never hope to match. Everyone trolled Driver because of his nose way before they poke fun at Kylo Ren.

Also, we differ in our beliefes. You think that it's ok to ridicule people on some occasions but not on others. I think it's not ok to ridicule people under ANY circumstances or under any justification, be it gender, race, religion, belief, facial characteristic or favorite dish etc.


EDIT: Wouldn't you know it? All it takes is to google "Adam Driver nose":

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/mar/29/adam-driver-lots-things-said-about-face-interview

Once again, quote me saying it was ok to make fun of Adam Drivers nose. Please. Find anything I said anywhere about it being ok to make fun of the person and not the character.

I will quote you on this:

Nobody attacked Adam Driver for who he is.

Yes they very much did. But instead of aknowledging this, you jump to the counter-offense "When did I say that making fun of his nose is ok?" That's moving the goalposts.

 Lance845 wrote:


Calling the character emo and calling the actress racial and gender slurs are 2 very different things. As has been stated in this very thread, it's fine to criticize fictional characters, writing, the movie itself. It's not ok to attack actual people for their basic genetic make up.

Nobody attacked Adam Driver for who he is. They attacked the character he played in the movie. Tran is being attacked as a person in addition to her character. Daisy Ridley has been attacked for being female. KK has been attacked for being female. Can you find any source for an attack on Adam Driver because hes a dude? Or is it all just making cracks on Kylo for being a whiny Vader wanna-be?

Here's your quote.If you want this discussion to continue stop moving the goalposts.

Of course Kylo Ren exists. He is the output of Adam Driver's effort. He is the product of his job. have you ever had anyone come into your job and making fun of what you make? It does not feel nice TO YOU.

If you laugh and make fun of a painting, the painter will be very much insulted and sorry. Same goes with the actor's effort.

You are only making a distinction because it fits your story.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Kylo Ren is a character, Kelly Tran is a real person.

Kelly Tran is a member of an abused minority group. Adam Driver is a member of the most privileged majority group in the English speaking world.

Adam Driver is "privileged", so you don't care or care less about the abuse he receives?

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:


Calling the character emo and calling the actress racial and gender slurs are 2 very different things. As has been stated in this very thread, it's fine to criticize fictional characters, writing, the movie itself. It's not ok to attack actual people for their basic genetic make up.

Nobody attacked Adam Driver for who he is. They attacked the character he played in the movie. Tran is being attacked as a person in addition to her character. Daisy Ridley has been attacked for being female. KK has been attacked for being female. Can you find any source for an attack on Adam Driver because hes a dude? Or is it all just making cracks on Kylo for being a whiny Vader wanna-be?

Here's your quote.If you want this discussion to continue stop moving the goalposts.

Of course Kylo Ren exists. He is the output of Adam Driver's effort. He is the product of his job. have you ever had anyone come into your job and making fun of what you make? It does not feel nice TO YOU.

If you laugh and make fun of a painting, the painter will be very much insulted and sorry. Same goes with the actor's effort.

You are only making a distinction because it fits your story.

This is the dumbest gak in the world. FIRST) Kylo Ren is the result of like 10 different people. He's costume, make up, writers, directors, co stars and supporting actors, and Adam Driver himself. SECOND) Actors are artists. There is a thing in all art called criticism. In fact, there is a profession called being a critic, where your job is to provide criticism. Very specifically, artists are trained to take all criticism and use it to get better at their craft. But I haven't seen people say Adam Drivers performance was bad. Nobody disbelieved the character. He portrayed him well. My degree started in art school learning illustration, moved to game art and design and ended in game design. Criticism is absolutely central to growth. If you have such an over inflated sense of sensitivity that you cannot BARE to have anyone say anything negative about anything anybody produces then best of luck to you in the world. You're fethed.

It's unbelievable. Hey, nobody better say Emperor Palpatine was a murderous prune man racist who built a facist government and oppressed non humans. Don't call him a slaver. That might hurt the actors feelings apparently.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Kylo Ren is a character, Kelly Tran is a real person.

Kelly Tran is a member of an abused minority group. Adam Driver is a member of the most privileged majority group in the English speaking world.

Adam Driver is "privileged", so you don't care or care less about the abuse he receives?

Thats not what he said. He said that Kylo Ren doesn't exist and Adam Driver hasn't been getting abused.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Kylo Ren is a character, Kelly Tran is a real person.

Kelly Tran is a member of an abused minority group. Adam Driver is a member of the most privileged majority group in the English speaking world.

Adam Driver is "privileged", so you don't care or care less about the abuse he receives?

I am trying to separate racist/sexist abuse from other types of abuse. Kelly Tran gets all three. Does Adam Driver is my point?

To put it another way, probable all actors get abused on the internet by arsehol fans. No-one can approve that. But it looks like women and BME actors get a lot more abuse from racists and misgoynists. I am sure we would all agree that is unacceptable.

Why does it matter? Being critical is fine, being abusive is not, no matter what they find to go at people for.

You work in the art field and you don't know there's a thing called destructive criticism and libel? Or do you choose to ignore it on purpose?

It does not matter if Kylo Ren is the result of 1 million different people. If you spent effort on something and you see your effort being trashed and ridiculed, you have the right to feel bad about it. Apparently this does not qualify to be protected against bullying in your opinion.

Your argument against "over inflated sense of sensitivity" can be equally transferred to Kelly Tran. She cannot bare to have anyone say anything negative about her? Even for being asian? That's A-class victim blaming on both occasions, not only on the racial one.

Racism is a terrible thing. So is bullying. And context does not matter with bullying and racism. They are just a no-go. This is my point.

On further notice, looks like i mistook your profile with Kilkrazy. Apologies.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
You work in the art field and you don't know there's a thing called destructive criticism and libel? Or do you choose to ignore it on purpose?

It does not matter if Kylo Ren is the result of 1 million different people. If you spent effort on something and you see your effort being trashed and ridiculed, you have the right to feel bad about it. Apparently this does not qualify to be protected against bullying in your opinion.

Your argument against "over inflated sense of sensitivity" can be equally transferred to Kelly Tran. She cannot bare to have anyone say anything negative about her? Even for being asian? That's A-class victim blaming on both occasions, not only on the racial one.

Racism is a terrible thing. So is bullying. And context does not matter with bullying and racism. They are just a no-go. This is my point.

On further notice, looks like i mistook your profile with Kilkrazy. Apologies.

You learn very quickly that while YOU are trained to give constructive criticism the vast majority of the world has no idea how to do it. You cannot count on the untrained masses to know how to put into words what they are feeling in a way that would be easy for you to take and process. So you have to take it all, good and bad, and dig for the nuggets you need to improve yourself. Being offended affords you nothing.

Again, Kylo Ren is a character. Nobody bashed Adam Drivers craft. Nobody said the costume was bad. Nobody made fun of the make up. Nobody made fun of his dialog. The camera work and special effects were fine. The acting was good. Making fun of the character for the characters fictional personality traits is a whole lot of nothing. By your argument we cannot call Magatron a megalomaniac because that would slander all the creators efforts. No. Megatron IS a megalomaniac. Thats who he is. It's the character. And it isn't libel on the creators to say that. Kylo Ren is a lost child who idolizes Vader and tries to emulate him. Or in other words, a whiny bitch who wishes he was Vader. Thats not attacking the creators or actor. Thats who the character is.

Again, Kylo... doesn't exist. Tran.. an actual person. You can't "get better" from being Asian if thats what you are implying. Thats not criticism. Thats hate. See the difference yet?

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Kylo Ren is a character, Kelly Tran is a real person.

Kelly Tran is a member of an abused minority group. Adam Driver is a member of the most privileged majority group in the English speaking world.

Adam Driver is "privileged", so you don't care or care less about the abuse he receives?

I am trying to separate racist/sexist abuse from other types of abuse. Kelly Tran gets all three. Does Adam Driver is my point?

To put it another way, probable all actors get abused on the internet by arsehol fans. No-one can approve that. But it looks like women and BME actors get a lot more abuse from racists and misgoynists. I am sure we would all agree that is unacceptable.

Asians are not minority. Basically it's everyone else that is a minority on the planet. And a Hollywood celebrity is most definitely not abused. Stating that would be an insult to the people -irrespectively of color, gender or race- that get really abused in life. Online trolls suck, but the internet does have an off switch and nobody can actually kill/rape/beat you through your monitor, no matter how loudly they boast that they will.

Also, why do you try to separate the "kinds of abuse" into different piles? This is what creates unequality in the first place.

Furthermore : "Kelly Tran gets all three. Does Adam Driver is my point?" does not lead anywhere. Example: Children in sweat shops get beaten and overworked for 50 cents a day. Does Kelly Tran is my point?" See? It does not lead anywhere. Don't create degrees of victimhood, it's unfair for the victims. All of them.

Lastly: "But it looks like women and BME actors get a lot more abuse from racists and misgoynists." It is obvious that men would not get abused by mysogynists. They would get abused by militant feminists though. Additionally, it "looks" like this because the women abuse stories hit the spotlight, while the men that are abused are socially expected to take it and don't complain, lest they be labeled as wussies.

Oh and "I am sure we would all agree that is unacceptable." 100% agreed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lance845 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
You work in the art field and you don't know there's a thing called destructive criticism and libel? Or do you choose to ignore it on purpose?

It does not matter if Kylo Ren is the result of 1 million different people. If you spent effort on something and you see your effort being trashed and ridiculed, you have the right to feel bad about it. Apparently this does not qualify to be protected against bullying in your opinion.

Your argument against "over inflated sense of sensitivity" can be equally transferred to Kelly Tran. She cannot bare to have anyone say anything negative about her? Even for being asian? That's A-class victim blaming on both occasions, not only on the racial one.

Racism is a terrible thing. So is bullying. And context does not matter with bullying and racism. They are just a no-go. This is my point.

On further notice, looks like i mistook your profile with Kilkrazy. Apologies.

You learn very quickly that while YOU are trained to give constructive criticism the vast majority of the world has no idea how to do it. You cannot count on the untrained masses to know how to put into words what they are feeling in a way that would be easy for you to take and process. So you have to take it all, good and bad, and dig for the nuggets you need to improve yourself. Being offended affords you nothing.

Again, Kylo Ren is a character. Nobody bashed Adam Drivers craft. Nobody said the costume was bad. Nobody made fun of the make up. Nobody made fun of his dialog. The camera work and special effects were fine. The acting was good. Making fun of the character for the characters fictional personality traits is a whole lot of nothing. By your argument we cannot call Magatron a megalomaniac because that would slander all the creators efforts. No. Megatron IS a megalomaniac. Thats who he is. It's the character. And it isn't libel on the creators to say that. Kylo Ren is a lost child who idolizes Vader and tries to emulate him. Or in other words, a whiny bitch who wishes he was Vader. Thats not attacking the creators or actor. Thats who the character is.

Again, Kylo... doesn't exist. Tran.. an actual person. You can't "get better" from being Asian if thats what you are implying. Thats not criticism. Thats hate. See the difference yet?

I do not imply anything. Please do not put words in my mouth ever again.

Thank you in advance.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Kylo Ren is a character, Kelly Tran is a real person.

Kelly Tran is a member of an abused minority group. Adam Driver is a member of the most privileged majority group in the English speaking world.

Adam Driver is "privileged", so you don't care or care less about the abuse he receives?

I am trying to separate racist/sexist abuse from other types of abuse. Kelly Tran gets all three. Does Adam Driver is my point?

To put it another way, probable all actors get abused on the internet by arsehol fans. No-one can approve that. But it looks like women and BME actors get a lot more abuse from racists and misgoynists. I am sure we would all agree that is unacceptable.

Asians are not minority. Basically it's everyone else that is a minority on the planet. And a Hollywood celebrity is most definitely not abused. Stating that would be an insult to the people -irrespectively of color, gender or race- that get really abused in life. Online trolls suck, but the internet does have an off switch and nobody can actually kill/rape/beat you through your monitor, no matter how loudly they boast that they will.

Also, why do you try to separate the "kinds of abuse" into different piles? This is what creates unequality in the first place.

Furthermore : "Kelly Tran gets all three. Does Adam Driver is my point?" does not lead anywhere. Example: Children in sweat shops get beaten and overworked for 50 cents a day. Does Kelly Tran is my point?" See? It does not lead anywhere. Don't create degrees of victimhood, it's unfair for the victims. All of them.

Lastly: "But it looks like women and BME actors get a lot more abuse from racists and misgoynists." It is obvious that men would not get abused by mysogynists. They would get abused by militant feminists though. Additionally, it "looks" like this because the women abuse stories hit the spotlight, while the men that are abused are socially expected to take it and don't complain, lest they be labeled as wussies.

Oh and "I am sure we would all agree that is unacceptable." 100% agreed.

Maybe it's different in your local, but over here in the states the Vietnamese are a minority. She went to school as a minority. She goes to work as a minority. She works in a industry surrounded by almost 100% not her blood lines nationality. Shes a minority.

Inequality. There is a difference between say... a crime of passion murder and serial killers. One of them is a person who in a fit lost control and did something horrible. That person deserves all the guilt and punishment for their crime. But a serial killer is not equivalent. It's a whole other scale of murder. It's premeditated and it's repeated. It's calculated. You wouldn't put the guy who stabbed his wife in a fit of rage in the same box as the nazis who organized the death camps. They are the same KIND of thing but they are not the same thing.

Bigotry is not the same as general douche baggery. They might both be bullying but one is in a class all it's own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

I do not imply anything. Please do not put words in my mouth ever again.

Thank you in advance.

Says the guy who was putting words in MY mouth. The point being, do you understand the DIFFERENCE yet?

 Crazyterran wrote:
Once again nerdom sinks to a new low.

New low? Honestly, I think this is just about an average result these days.