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Ahhhhh, I thought it was a homebrew. I guess I overlooked it if they were talking about the setting.

I need to do some digging now.

One more item that I've learned -

R. Talsorian Games will be releasing an updated version of the Cyberpunk 2020 rules called "Cyberpunk Red". The new release is, unsurprisingly, meant to draw in new potential fans who like the video game.

Thanks Eumerin, that was quite informative.

I'm trying to keep my hype levels down, but damn, this checks off so many boxes I want in a game.

CDPR has an E3 slot at 1730, so we should hopefully get some info about the game.

I need that car in my life though. Time to go cruising around listening to synthwave.

The car reminds me a lot of the one Hiro used during his Deliverator days.

And it is first person.......

Not sure why but I lost most of the hype I had in an instant....

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
And it is first person.......

Not sure why but I lost most of the hype I had in an instant....

Is there a third person option announced? A lot of FPS RPGs have been doing that lately.

It doesn't have one. You'll be 3rd person in cut-scenes and driving, but that's it.

Of course, modders may be able to fix that.

a little bit excited for this, the pen and paper RPG was my nerd herds game of choice back way back when so a trip to Night City in the capable hands of CD should be fun (although a tad worried my PC might not quite by up to it, had a compromise settings a fair bit on the last Witcher)

I prefer 1st person during shooting and most indoor spaces. When I'm wandering around, I enjoy 3rd person to look at my character, so 3rd person while driving to look at that amazing car and during cut scenes is fine for me. A FO4 easy switch would be ideal though for everyone, but being mostly 1st person isn't a deal breaker for me. The more I learn about this game, the more excited I get.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
... (although a tad worried my PC might not quite by up to it, had a compromise settings a fair bit on the last Witcher)

Yeah, I hadn't thought of that aspect. My current PC was built for The Witcher 3, so it would be kind of fitting if I need to build/upgrade for CDPR's next game.

I don't like 1st person so much these days, but not a dealbreaker. Hopefully they come up with a way to make it both like in Fallout 4

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It doesn't have one. You'll be 3rd person in cut-scenes and driving, but that's it.

Of course, modders may be able to fix that.

I am hopping modders will fix that.

Nothing to fix for me, it's not the kind of RPG that needs third person for game mechanic reasons, so it's far better as first person IMO, much easier to be immersed in your character that way than magically inhabiting a point six feet behind your own head.

CDPR have proven they have the chops. My stoked-for-this-o-meter could not be higher.

I'm fine with first person. It works better for shooting that isn't cover-based and by the sounds of it, traversal will be a bit Titanfall-esque with wall runs and mantling and such, so it suits that as well. Given that this is also a game that very much seems to want to immerse you in this towering, vertical environment as much as possible, a first person (and thus more limited) view would be appropriate there as well.

Some good gameplay details here, can't wait to see some of this stuff.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-13-we-watched-50-minutes-of-uncut-cyberpunk-2077-gameplay-and-interviewed-cd-projekt-about-it

I like the interview bits on the city, international flavor and day/night and weather cycles. They didn't say it explicitly, but I tend to agree: the flat one note rain-in-nighttime doesn't fit a game world.

I didn't like the observation that the dialogue choice prompts a 'line with the character's take on that choice.' I really hate that for RPGs after so much of that crap from Bioware. Too often what the summary and what the characters say are a complete mismatch or have an entirely different tone. It makes the character feel less like mine and more like the actor intruding into the scene as a separate person.



As for the article... The detached, 3rd person passive voice description of what happened makes for really dull reading, and didn't convince me the journalist was excited about playing, but just reciting bullet points.

Voss wrote:

I didn't like the observation that the dialogue choice prompts a 'line with the character's take on that choice.' I really hate that for RPGs after so much of that crap from Bioware. Too often what the summary and what the characters say are a complete mismatch or have an entirely different tone. It makes the character feel less like mine and more like the actor intruding into the scene as a separate person.

To be honest, I don't really see a way around this, apart from a) having an unvoiced character (definitely far worse in my book) or B) limiting dialogue to very short, direct lines as you need to fit 3-4 on the screen at once, and have the character recite them directly (in which case what's the point in having a voice, as you know exactly what they're going to say before they've said it?). It's not perfect, but I think it adds far more than it detracts, as character get a distinct voice and tone, are able to refer to their own in-character knowledge without the player knowing that, and they don't just keep repeating 'who are you?', 'What happened here?' ect.

It worked perfectly in The Witcher 3. Conversations there would be incredibly dull if Geralt only ever said the short, simple lines that appeared on screen, and he'd have far less of his own personality. Yes, there's an onus on the writers to make sure the lines match up between the verbal and written dialogue, but TW3 got that right 99% of the time.

The solution is either make the short description have relation with the actual big dialogue, something bioware fails dramatically.

or allow saves on dialogue options

or revert to the old system were the dialogue is fully written.

I'd rather have the full dialogue rather than a small dialogue wheel or similar- that was when the switch happened and it was a bad one.

As for voiced... I don't really care. I turn subtitles on, read and skip through the voice-overs anyway. Saves a lot of time and loses nothing- after a few clips, I know what the VAs are going to sound like for the rest of the game.

Thanks Eumaren, that's a really informative post

It certainly looks like there is a good deal of background info for them to use then, and hopefully they are using the better regarded parts of that!

There is a really comprehensive write-up on the game here from Eurogamer. If nothing else it certainly sounds like one of the most ambitious gaming projects for some time!

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-06-13-we-watched-50-minutes-of-uncut-cyberpunk-2077-gameplay-and-interviewed-cd-projekt-about-it

 Blacksails wrote:
I prefer 1st person during shooting and most indoor spaces. When I'm wandering around, I enjoy 3rd person to look at my character, so 3rd person while driving to look at that amazing car and during cut scenes is fine for me. A FO4 easy switch would be ideal though for everyone, but being mostly 1st person isn't a deal breaker for me. The more I learn about this game, the more excited I get.

That's my thought as well. Thinking how awkward some of the indoor scenes of the Witcher are with the camera controls, with this being in a kind of future hive city you can see why FPS is a better option.

Eumerin wrote:
One more item that I've learned -

R. Talsorian Games will be releasing an updated version of the Cyberpunk 2020 rules called "Cyberpunk Red". The new release is, unsurprisingly, meant to draw in new potential fans who like the video game.

Need more insight on that because R. Talsorians's website is very poor, and just about everything hotlinks to the computer game. Though in fairness the computer licensing will make more money that the paper and dice game will.

The R. Tal site doesn't talk about Cyberpunk Red. I learned about it while checking the CDPR forum for news from E3.

Also, according to posters on the CDPR forum (not confirmed by CDPR people, though) the agreement is that Mike Pondsmith owns the setting up through 2077, and CDPR owns the timeline after that.

Putting these in spoiler tags, be warned, concept art for the trailer and some extra screenshots from the site!

Trailer Concept Art:


Screenshots:

Well it looks and feels amazing.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Well it looks and feels amazing.

Couldn't agree more.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again; I can't get enough of V's car. It's perfect.

The few reviews I've read of the demo some people got to play reinforce that this sounds amazing to actually play too. The demo sounded like your decisions had real consequences, both big and small, and I really hope they can pull it off throughout the entire game.

 Paradigm wrote:

Voss wrote:

I didn't like the observation that the dialogue choice prompts a 'line with the character's take on that choice.' I really hate that for RPGs after so much of that crap from Bioware. Too often what the summary and what the characters say are a complete mismatch or have an entirely different tone. It makes the character feel less like mine and more like the actor intruding into the scene as a separate person.

To be honest, I don't really see a way around this, apart from a) having an unvoiced character (definitely far worse in my book) or B) limiting dialogue to very short, direct lines as you need to fit 3-4 on the screen at once, and have the character recite them directly (in which case what's the point in having a voice, as you know exactly what they're going to say before they've said it?). It's not perfect, but I think it adds far more than it detracts, as character get a distinct voice and tone, are able to refer to their own in-character knowledge without the player knowing that, and they don't just keep repeating 'who are you?', 'What happened here?' ect.

It worked perfectly in The Witcher 3. Conversations there would be incredibly dull if Geralt only ever said the short, simple lines that appeared on screen, and he'd have far less of his own personality. Yes, there's an onus on the writers to make sure the lines match up between the verbal and written dialogue, but TW3 got that right 99% of the time.

The solution is actually dead easy - show the dialogue on the screen as text and you pick what to say. Bethesda said the same things about Fallout 4, and it took all of five minutes for someone to mod together a UI that showed all of the actual words as text, arranged in various different formats and orientations, and it radically improved the game. I mean crikey, until recently that's how all RPGs worked and there was no voiced protagonist at all. At the very, very, bare, absolute minimum, they should show enough of what's about to be said that you can be sure the dialogue your character speaks is actually the dialogue you would have chosen they speak, and if they are going to truncate the full text then they should add statements that accurately indicate the overall tone. Picking an option that looks badass and getting whinging, or genuine and getting sarcastic, or intelligent and getting snobbery, in an RPG? Infuriating. And also, there's a key difference between this game and Witcher - the Witcher games are about Geralt, while "V" is supposed to be a cipher defined beyond the most basic outline required by the game by the player themselves. Every bit of control you take away from the player in relation to how their character acts and talks diminishes their ability to define the character.


All that said, my ability to resist the hype on this one reduces every time I read something new about it. About all I can do at the moment is force myself to limit my excitement to things that have been explicitly, unequivocally confirmed to exist like the aesthetic and core concept, because when you think about what's implied by the material they've released so far the game that comes to mind sounds too good to be true, and I don't want to hype myself into disappointment.

Yeah, I'm a little amused at the idea that the full dialogue lines can't be shown on screen. That was a barrier to nobody, until Bioware reinvented themselves and Bethesda and the other modern RPG-lite creators followed suit.

That said... It's about the only irksome thing I've seen for this title, and compared to the rest of the uninteresting, uninspired copy-pasta that came out of E3, I guess I'm looking forward to this and nothing else.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Nothing to fix for me, it's not the kind of RPG that needs third person for game mechanic reasons, so it's far better as first person IMO, much easier to be immersed in your character that way than magically inhabiting a point six feet behind your own head.

It doesn't need to be an either/or situation.

Skyrim allows both. I know people who cannot stand 1st person, and cannot stand 3rd person. The option is there for both.

Even GTAV added it in.

Indeed I hope they choose to do it, or implement it later.

BBC article:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-44492751