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Anyone having success with house Taranis?

I keep trying to build a triple crusader list but can’t seem to balance the following

Enough Screen
Enough CP to make Darkest Hour affordable
Enough anti air
Enough non Los shooting
Enough anti tank

If anyone has any tips or recent experience that can help me nail down a list

My reasoning is whilst Krast is clearly superior if you don’t get first turn you just remove knights and start at such a massive disadvantage. Alternating actions would be a much better system than the first turn lottery

I've been thinking about a triple Taranis Crusader list myself...

I think the only way to run one is with dual Battalions for CP, since Darkest Hour is very expensive, and you need to use Machine Spirit Resurgent and have a re-roll to help it go off... so figure 5 CP per turn for it, and add a 6th CP for a rotate ion shields. So you need minimum 6 CP per turn on turns 2 and 3 (after that hopefully you've won)... so minimum 13-14 CP to make the list work.

So my current thoughts on it are to take a Loyal 32 of Astra Militarum + an Astropath, a Rusty 17 of Graia + 2 Icarus Dunecrawlers for anti-tank flyer and anti-light vehicle, and 3 Taranis Crusaders w/ Thermal Cannons and Ironstorm pods. Gives you decent anti-psyker, alongside 19 CP... so even if you spend 4 on extra relics / traits, the 15 left should give you 2 solid turns of bringing a Knight back, a Deny or two from Graia, and a re-roll or two.

I use a solo taranis errant as a backstop for my marine army. The ability to get back up after taking the majority of enemy fire is invaluable for me, this is less so when your running multiple knights. Twice I've had him get back up to just absolutely ace whatever killed him. One game, he was killed by three tank commanders, so he got back up and thermaled one, finished another with his icarus, and smashed the last one with his gauntlet.

Not always going to happen obviously, but the ability to threaten a knight to get back up can give a lot of opponents pause.

 Horst wrote:
I've been thinking about a triple Taranis Crusader list myself...

I think the only way to run one is with dual Battalions for CP, since Darkest Hour is very expensive, and you need to use Machine Spirit Resurgent and have a re-roll to help it go off... so figure 5 CP per turn for it, and add a 6th CP for a rotate ion shields. So you need minimum 6 CP per turn on turns 2 and 3 (after that hopefully you've won)... so minimum 13-14 CP to make the list work.

So my current thoughts on it are to take a Loyal 32 of Astra Militarum + an Astropath, a Rusty 17 of Graia + 2 Icarus Dunecrawlers for anti-tank flyer and anti-light vehicle, and 3 Taranis Crusaders w/ Thermal Cannons and Ironstorm pods. Gives you decent anti-psyker, alongside 19 CP... so even if you spend 4 on extra relics / traits, the 15 left should give you 2 solid turns of bringing a Knight back, a Deny or two from Graia, and a re-roll or two.

I’m going to experiment more tomorrow. I beat my friends evil Ynnari list before using Triple Taranis Crusaders and it was glorious. He now mainly plays alaitoc. The -2/-3 to hit is a concern. For tournaments I might just have to hope that I don’t encounter such lists. It does seem like a counter, but I suppose you can’t have it all right? What’s the decision behind the Astropath? Also I think that comes to 2001 points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@vilehydra haha the look on your opponents face must have been amusing

The Astropath is there because I had some extra points, and the ability to deny a psychic power is important. with Graia and the Astropath, you get 2 possible ways to try to deny a psychic power, which is important if someone tries to cast something really bad like Doom or Treason of Tzeench or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks like 2000 points even to me.


++ Super-Heavy Detachment +6CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [75 PL, 1404pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Household Choice: House Taranis, Questor Mechanicus

+ Lord of War +

Knight Crusader [25 PL, 468pts]: Heavy Stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal Cannon
. Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer

Knight Crusader [25 PL, 468pts]: Heavy Stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal Cannon
. Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer

Knight Crusader [25 PL, 468pts]: Character (Knight Lance), Heavy Stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal Cannon, Warlord
. Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [32 PL, 385pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Forge World Choice

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

+ Troops +

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle

+ Heavy Support +

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 110pts]: Icarus Array

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 110pts]: Icarus Array

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [14 PL, 211pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Astra Millitarum

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Company Commander [2 PL, 35pts]: Bolt pistol, Power sword

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Elites +

Astropath [1 PL, 26pts]: Laspistol

++ Total: [121 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Your 100% correct. I accidentally had a staff on the astropath costing more

Lol

Enjoyed a good game yesterday.

I’m back on team Taranis. The ignore wounds on a 6, fury of mars and ability to stand back up again just seems to be a good fit for my play style.

Anyone got any upcoming tournaments?

Yup! Beef and wing ITC major in Buffalo NY in 2 weeks, and the triple C GT in Cleveland OH in July. And probably a few RTTs in between.

Nice, what are you taking to beef and wing? Triple crusaders again?

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Nice, what are you taking to beef and wing? Triple crusaders again?

Yea, that's the plan. Triple Crusader, 2 Tank Commander has served me well so far, it's 8-1 for tournament games so far, so why change something that seems to work?

fair. What would you say your hardest match up is on paper?

 Ideasweasel wrote:
fair. What would you say your hardest match up is on paper?

I think Genestealer Cults and Daemons are my hardest matches. The GSC have really good anti-tank that can deep strike in close and cut me up in melee, I'm relying on screening + my Culexus to help defend against that but it won't be easy. Daemons are also scary, because I don't have the insane levels of anti-infantry firepower I'd need to reliably kill plaguebearers fast enough. He'd be able to get in close and just smite me to death with Daemon Princes, then charge into melee and rip me up.

Dark Eldar is scary, but their vehicles are fragile enough I can handle them, and Talos Spam is OK, but they're not super reliable against Knights in close combat, so if I get a charge off with 3 Krast Crusaders into some Talos I can rip them up pretty hard.

Craftworlds is potentially scary as well, but their anti-tank isn't that great without the doom + harlequins or dark eldar units, so I can get in close and try to get close enough to mitigate the -1 to hit they have (since all craftworlds players are alaitoc).

Tau is a coinflip matchup. I think whoever goes first just wins.

I am considering switching out one of the Crusaders for a Warden though. I have one basic un-upgraded Crusader, I have the points to swap it out with a Warden w/ a Stormspear+Thunderstrike, which is about the same cost. So I'm effectively swapping a Thermal Cannon out, and gaining a Power Fist and a Stormstrike Pod. Gives me the option to pay 1 CP to take a Paragon Gauntlet, making me significantly better in melee in mirror matchups, which are far and away the most common opponent I fight. My list is 8-1 in tournaments, and of that 6 of those games are vs Knights lists, lol.

@horst

I’m tempted by a Porphyrion. Might have to proxy one to get a feel for it but the below could be amusing

Graia Bat 165

Porphyrion 866
Gallant 352
Gallant 352

Guard Batallion 180

Assassin drop 85

2k on the nose. Your trying your warden out for your next tournament aren’t you?

Yea, I'm trying out my Warden build at the beef and wing ITC Major in Buffalo this coming weekend.

2 Gallants and a Porphyrion could be fun, but I have a feeling it's going to win big or lose big depending on who you fight. I saw a guy with a list like that at the CTC, I think he went 4-2, so it can certainly do well, just depends on that matchups to be favorable a lot. Like, against other Knights players (so half of all tournament players) I think it's going to dominate.

Yeah, I’m just not a fan of Hellverins

That and I love Gallants but can never find a way to fit them in

Yea, I don't like Helverins much either.

recently have been thinking of taking the Porphyrion in a super heavy aux as house Raven. Order of Companions should boost it's firepower to about the same levels as a Headsman's Mark w/ First Knight would, since you can re-roll 1's for number of shots and wounds, so I'd get more hits that do a bit less damage. This would mean I have 1150 points left to take either 2 Guard Battalions or a Guard Brigade, to fit in 3 Punishers and some Mortars for anti-infantry.

I could always just run the Porphyrion + 2 Crusaders + Loyal 32 though... I just think it would auto-lose to certain armies. Would be fun though.

It’s such an ace looking model. I’d love to get one. I’ve just recently purchased a couple of punisher tank commanders after a proxy game. The volume of shots is impressive. As a compliment to the anti tank of porphy it could be exactly what you need

@Horst

How did you find the warden with stormspear in your tournament?

He did quite well! I went 4-1, took best Imperial player, placing 10th out of 98 overall.

Game 1 was against Thousand Sons w/ Magnus and Daemons, no vehicles. The Stormspear performed the same as a Thermal Cannon would have, since it was shooting at infantry and daemons mostly.

Game 2 was against Craftworlds w/ Flyers, and the Stormspear was slightly worse than a Thermal Cannon would have been, since Eldar flyers don't have an invuln, and here they got a 5+ armor save. Didn't particularly matter though, since most of those shots missed anyway since they have a -2 to hit.

Game 3 was against Knights... and the Warden took up a Paragon Gauntlet for this. Granted, the game was already a foregone conclusion because I got turn 1 and blew up his Valiant and cut a Crusader in half in my opening salvo, and his return fire didn't do anything more than scratch the paint on one of my Crusaders, but the Warden got in there and punched a fresh enemy Warden to death in a single combat round. Had I gone second, I might have lost my Crusader, and I'd certainly have needed the extra punch from the Warden to claw myself back into the game.

Game 4 was against Jim Vesal, the current top ranked ITC player. I lost, but I managed to get 17 points off of him, so I'll take it. No difference in the stormspear vs thermal, there were no great targets for either, just nothing but plaguebearers or pink horrors to shoot at since the Daemon Princes stayed well back behind them at all times.

Game 5 was against another Daemons player, I asked Jim for some tips on how to play against them and his advice was pretty good (basically boiled down to deploy everything forward on the line and fall back as he approaches, don't worry so much about zoning out deepstrikers to protect a Knight since there isn't anything that deep strikes to one shot a Knight, and take a Vindicare to pop characters) so I adapted my game and won this one handily 29-17. Again, the stormspear was effectively the same as a thermal cannon would have been.


So, overall, it's a bit worse against Eldar, but a LOT better against Knights, and pretty much the same against everything else. I was hoping to fight more Knights players, since I think my list specializes in killing them, but overall I'm happy with it's performance.

Congrats on best imperial! Yeah I’ve seen Jim’s path this season. That’s certainly a tough draw!

So what’s next for the list? You sticking with what you have or adapting it a bit?

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Congrats on best imperial! Yeah I’ve seen Jim’s path this season. That’s certainly a tough draw!

So what’s next for the list? You sticking with what you have or adapting it a bit?

So, I'm considering dropping the Guard and the Assassin, and subbing in a Graia AdMech Rusty 17. The spare points would go to buying another Warden, and moving one of my Crusaders out of the Krast super heavy detachment into a Mortan super heavy aux. detachment. Mortan's stratagem lets me ignore modifiers to hit... so against Eldar and Daemons, I can just light up those -2 to hit units. Give him an Endless fury and a Battle Cannon and watch him mow down flyers and plaguebearers.

I'd lose my Assassin, but honestly in most games they've underperformed for me. They rarely make a huge difference. Maybe I'm just using them wrong, but I feel saving the 2 CP and making a better primary force would be good. I'd also lose some firepower, since 2 Tank Commanders is far better than a Warden, but I'd gain some durability, and better counter-charge ability since a Knight is obviously sturdier than 2 tanks.

I've got the models for it, though all 4 of my Knights are painted in the same scheme, so I'll probably have to buy a 5th Knight to paint differently to identify it as being from Mortan.

Oh that’s quite interesting, I haven’t experimented with Mortan much but had been considering it for testing against elder friends.

Would you give him the Legacy of the Black Pall WLT?

Could you not just throw a cloth over the top of the knight and say the one wearing a dress is from noble house Mortan wearers of skirts?

Yea, I'd probably give him that WL Trait with the 2 CP I'd saved from my Assassin, to force the Eldar to get close if they want to ignore the -1 to hit modifier... and if they get close, the Headsman's Crusader will trash the flyers.

Also I need to just try to protect it, since I can't just ignore damage on him like I can on a Krast Crusader, since he's Imperial not Mechanicus.

So 2 Krast wardens and a crusader

You give endless fury and -1 on the Mortan crusader

You then give your warlord crusader his free first knight/headmans mark

And then just tailor the wardens to what your facing. Hmm yeah that sounds quite fun to play. You’ll have to let us know how you get on when you try it.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
So 2 Krast wardens and a crusader

You give endless fury and -1 on the Mortan crusader

You then give your warlord crusader his free first knight/headmans mark

And then just tailor the wardens to what your facing. Hmm yeah that sounds quite fun to play. You’ll have to let us know how you get on when you try it.

Lol there's a tournament on the 15th, and 2 GT's within a few hours of my house in the next month. SO MANY TOURNAMENTS... not enough time to paint things. I can probably slap together a Rusty 17 this week since I already own the models, and spend all next week modifying one of my Knights to stand out slightly so he can be considered a different house.... I will definitely update with results if I try it out!

Nice one, spoilt for choice is never a bad thing. Best of luck for the 15th

Isn't the Ignore Hit Penalties only against Fly?

Plaguebearers don't have Fly.

Nope, I just checked. Mortan's stratagem ignores all modifiers, positive or negative, and mentions nothing about target keywords.

I ran Mortan a lot up until Feb, whenever I took Knights. It was simply down to the strat, and on rare occations, the warlord trait. When it came up, it was fantastic, however, I switched out eventually as I was facing more non-Eldar armies than Eldar armies at events, and as a result felt like I was seriously missing out on the “top bracket” strat you get with the Mechanicus Households. It also made mirror matchups extremely difficult when you were across the table from a Krast Lance. I was running 2 Crusaders and an Errant at the time (didn’t have the bits for another Gatling! :( and I wanted to avoid the Castellan Crutch).

Kdash,

Did you get bored of knights or just giving your other armies a try?