Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don't hate being a mod here. I just don't enjoy sending out warning PMs/occasionally suspending rule-breaking posters. These are necessary functions of the position, because we have rules and they need to be enforced. But it's emotionally negative stuff, as opposed to having an entertaining conversation about toy soldiers or sci fi movies. It has on occasion outright ruined my day IRL. There have been a few times where I have seriously considered giving it up. But those days are infrequent.

Most of what I do as a moderator is move threads to their proper sub-fora. In distant second place for frequency of task: when a thread starts to get too heated or is headed off the rails, a clear but polite in-thread post in orange text is usually sufficient, although sometimes it is also necessary to delete a few off-topic posts. This largely administrative work is conducive to high quality discussion, in my experience. And that is what I enjoy about volunteering as a moderator.

Oh wow, this thread is still open after two pages? Colour me impressed.

I’ve had problems with the mods before. 3 of them in fact. Direct insults mostly. But my main issue is, those who sit on the same political side as them seem to get away with murder whist those who don’t get snapped at and censured for the littlest things. Only when a poster with their views goes completely ape gak across a thread and it becomes impossible to ignore them do they step in.

The site would be better without politics threads. They only bring out the worst in people.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm not saying it's a solution mate? I'm saying if the mods hate their moderator role as much as they claim on here then perhaps they should step down. Sorry I thought that was clear.

Yeah, see, your faulty premise (that mods are just in it for the 'power') has led you to an erroneous conclusion (That a mod who doesn't like suspending people hates their job).

I don't like suspending people. I don't like having to tell adults to act like adults. But those things are only a part of the job... and most of the time, a very small part. The bulk of my moderating time is spent clearing out spam, answering questions from users, moving incorrectly placed threads to their rightful homes, locking threads that need locking for whatever reason, and investigating alerts (which generally means reading through threads that may or may not remotely interest me in order to get a context for the alert).

However much you may sneer at the idea that people might have less self-serving motivations, being a mod here means being a part of maintaining one of the biggest and best sites on the internet for discussion of my hobby. That's the reward. Not the ability to slightly inconvenience someone by locking their account or deleting one of their posts.

I don't hate my job as a moderator. I dislike a part of the job, that is sadly also a necessary part of the job because some people just can't control their own behaviour without supervision.

I'm talking about mods knowing each other irl by the way. Not online only.

Very few of the moderation team knew each other IRL prior to becoming mods. Most of us live too far apart for that to be a thing. Hell, I haven't even met the other current Australian mod in real life, and he only lives a couple of hours away. I've met most of the US and UK-based mods, but for most of us that happened well after we got the job. Mods are selected based on their activity and behaviour on the forum, and somewhat on geographical location to cover different timezones, not because we know the 'right' people.

 insaniak wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
People who claim we moderate for "the power" really have the very worst opinion of us.

Or just very little idea what the job actually entails...

My understanding is that it's not unlike the Herculean labor of cleaning the stables.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
People who claim we moderate for "the power" really have the very worst opinion of us.

Or just very little idea what the job actually entails...

My understanding is that it's not unlike the Herculean labor of cleaning the stables.

It's closer to

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

You said this; "It says far more about you and how you personally perceive holding any kind of power, than it does anyone else." which to me is a pretty clear insult, veiled or not. I don't see you referencing the topic under discussion and if that is the entire point of your comment it's completely redundant. 'User posts feelings on topic' crazy he'd do that on a forum huh?

Yes, and I stand by my comment. It's not an insult. It's an observation on how your perceptions of power dynamics completely determine your outlook in this situation. Namely, it shows that the only way you appear to be able to conceive of possessing any kind of power is for the pleasure of its exercise. Not as a responsibility, not for altruistic motives, not for separate reasons generally. But in order to take gratification from wielding it.

It's a bit like someone who thinks you only ever get a job because you enjoy it, or joins a club because they're obsessed with a topic. The reality is that many people do many things for many different reasons.

That all having been said; I am of the opinion that anyone who can only conceive of possessing power for the sole purpose of exercising it, is the least suited for having it and the most likely to abuse it.

Some sources believe it to be flawed yes. Shock. Like any piece of scientific research. Further/other studies have been done since with similar results.

I have an academic hat which I wear from time to time when I take my mod one off. Trust me. It's a terribly flawed piece of research at a basic methodological level and any professional academic will tell you that. You can believe it if you like (it's no skin off my back), but taking it seriously is akin to taking phlogiston seriously these days.

So you can literally only edit posts in the single subforum relevant to you? In that case I am corrected and mistaken. Wasn't my impression....Again, if you can only moderate your specific subforum then I am very wrong in your involvement and apologise. Just so we're clear, if you have any ability to moderate posts from other subforums I'd not consider this to be adequate in your defence that you do this for the feelgoods only.

I very literally have no moderation powers outside the swapshop, and never use my 'official' red text outside of it. On this subject, I'm effectively a regular user who has an insight into the mechanical workings that take place out of sight.

The fact that you have this strange idea that I need a 'defence' though, is the problem in your approach here. The fact that my moderation powers are circumscribed to one area of the site doesn't mean that I'm suddenly exonerated of a need to justify myself to you. Why? Because I never had that obligation in the first place. Likewise the idea of 'involvement', I'm not on trial, and neither is anyone else. People sometimes get this weird idea that dealing with a moderator is like shopping, that you can shout loudly and demand to see a manager if you don't like what the employee is saying. And it really doesn't work like that.

The moderators are here not to swing their banehammer, but to help the site run smoothly. As Insaniak noted above, do you know how many Thai massage ads or whatever get placed on this site per month? Someone needs to remove them. Someone needs to move threads to appropriate destinations. Someone needs to be there to talk to when a scammer is trying to rip people off. The mods do what they do to take care of those jobs and help those people. At least one Swapmod has gone on to do more general modding since we were appointed, but nothing changed in his approach or style or motivations for doing it. He was just doing it because he was really enthusiastic about helping the community to flourish and when offered the chance to do more of it, went along for the ride. Not because he was Emperor Palpatine in disguise.

Let's not pretend the mods are saints though, if they were this topic would not have started?


The topic being, that we have gone off by the way, mods should not moderate topics in which they have a vested interest or may be otherwise biased. Impossible of course, because it would mean this very topic is hence immune to any moderation.

What I would like to see is some sort of fall out for a mod who acts inappropriately. It happens often and there is no reprimand.

Guv, you made a bunch of assumptions about my status because you very clearly have no idea of how moderation here functions even in the practical administrative sense. In the gentlest most sincere possible way, don't you think that that might indicate you really don't know enough to have an opinion on how things work behind the scenes?

I said before that everyone has bad days, myself and other mods included. Sometimes you've received bad news, burned your dinner, there's a child screaming in the next room, and some mong who's been disciplined ten times for the same rule breaking is doing it again. So you type a slightly more curtly worded warning then you might otherwise have done. Or some other similar action. Everyone does it from time to time, because we're human. We all know that.

If there's a genuine problem , it tends to get addressed. Mods have been both appointed and removed in the past, and likely will be again in the future. I've agreed with some of those staffing choices by the owners, others not so much. But that's for the site owners to do. At the end of the day, agree or not, it's their back yard, and they try to pick people who promote the kind of site that they want. In the case of Dakka, it's a polite and mature, yet family friendly one. The desire is to help make a community that everyone can be part of. It's why troublemakers often get umpteen dozen chances before being banned, and even when they sneak back in, we usually leave them alone so long as they've changed their offensive/rule breaking behaviour.

Mods really aren't the power hungry unrestrained lot you seem to think they are. If they were, this site would be a very different place, and probably a lot less popular.

On thing that might interest some.

The idea of mods feeling empowered with ban/edit controls doesn't actually ring true when moderating. Indeed one of the most often feelings I've had is being powerless in situations rather than being empowered.

Ban buttons are a fantastic power against spambots. There's no thought, worry nor pain in removing them and kicking them out takes a second and everyone (barring the bot) is happy with the outcome.

But when it comes to resolving disputes on site its the total opposite. Banning most members is painful and often a last resort when everything else has utterly failed. Indeed the only formal tools mods really have is to section block, suspend (short term ban) or outright ban a member. That's pretty much it for formal "powers" at resolving disputes. Everything else is discussion, trying to understand the person better, trying to convince them to express themselves in a different way; to change their behaviour, to realise that they are causing a problem etc...
And sometimes people can't see that; or they can but their behaviour remains unchanged regardless.

Kicking people out of the site is the last resort, and its often the least wanted in most situations. It essentially means all else that has been tried has failed; and in the worst of cases might even have backfired.

 Overread wrote:
On thing that might interest some.

The idea of mods feeling empowered with ban/edit controls doesn't actually ring true when moderating. Indeed one of the most often feelings I've had is being powerless in situations rather than being empowered.

Ban buttons are a fantastic power against spambots. There's no thought, worry nor pain in removing them and kicking them out takes a second and everyone (barring the bot) is happy with the outcome.

But when it comes to resolving disputes on site its the total opposite. Banning most members is painful and often a last resort when everything else has utterly failed. Indeed the only formal tools mods really have is to section block, suspend (short term ban) or outright ban a member. That's pretty much it for formal "powers" at resolving disputes. Everything else is discussion, trying to understand the person better, trying to convince them to express themselves in a different way; to change their behaviour, to realise that they are causing a problem etc...
And sometimes people can't see that; or they can but their behaviour remains unchanged regardless.

Kicking people out of the site is the last resort, and its often the least wanted in most situations. It essentially means all else that has been tried has failed; and in the worst of cases might even have backfired.

Exalted. This guy gets it.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
People who claim we moderate for "the power" really have the very worst opinion of us.

Or just very little idea what the job actually entails...

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

You can dress it up how you like but ultimately the only benefit you get for volunteering to be a mod is the ability to change others' posts, to temporarily and permanently ban them.

That's not a 'benefit'. Do you have any idea how aggravating it is to have to write messages to grown adults explaining to them why insulting other people over a different opinion about toy soldiers isn't appropriate behaviour?

Suspending posters isn't a pleasurable activity. It's not a reward. It's frustrating, and at times downright depressing.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

What I would like to see is some sort of fall out for a mod who acts inappropriately. It happens often and there is no reprimand.

All moderator activity is logged and reviewed where necessary. Mods have been reprimanded or removed in the past where their behaviour falls out of line with what the site's owners expect.

If you're not seeing it as often as you would expect, it's possibly just because your view of appropriate moderator behaviour differs from that of the site's owners.

I don't think it's particularly difficult to copy paste a standard message and send it to a user, no. I think it takes second. So no, I'm not sure how it would be aggravating as you claim.

If it IS aggravating though to you, you know the solution. Stop being a mod. Do what the rest of us have to do and flag stuff up as inappropriate then hope that a mod bothers to do something about it/forget about it.

The primary difference between a mod and a normal user is the ability to edit others' posts and hand out suspensions/bans. Let's pretend you only do it to help the community for a second. Why do you, personally, need the ability to do these things? You can 'moderate' the community without having the moderators powers - like the rest of us do. Let's imagine that you have convinced yourself you do it for an altruistic reason. If you aren't using your only 'tools' as a mod, are you actually moderating at all? You are encouraged to moderate frequently to prove your own worth as a moderator. How else can you show that you're doing a good job? How else can you justify your existence and status?

I have spoken to the moderation team about the so called mod reprimanding/moderation process and it's an absolute joke. It doesn't exist, the mods actively support each other to keep their positions of power. Many of you were given the moderation title because you know someone else who's already a mod. It's like a boys club and to me is the single worst thing about this board.

I'm not saying all you mods are scum or that you all abuse your power or whatever. What I am saying is that there is absolutely no mechanism in place for reporting this abuse of power when it does happen and there is absolutely no interest in reprimanding any mod that does abuse their position. That is wrong.

I am proof that mods occasionally get kicked. How did I know that performing a banishing ceremony to banish someone to the eighth plane of Hell (New Mexico) was frowned upon in this establishment?

 Frazzled wrote:
Something more important than winning an argument on the internet.

Sorry frazzled, but NOTHING is more important than winning an argument on the Internet ...

An Actual Englishman, allow me to say, as a non-MOD with no real need to suck up to the site or anyone else, you are coming across very badly in this thread. It appears to me that you are projecting your outlook on life onto other people, and I agree with Ketara's assertion that your posts reveal more about you than about him. I agree with his statement that it is an observation, not an attack.

Whether you agree or not, people do perform services for others for reasons other than power or tangible reward. I volunteer at a homeless shelter, for example. Almost no-one in the real world knows about it, and it is the first time I have posted about it here. It is rewarding (intagibly) to be thanked by the guys who stay there, and there is a nice sense of camaraderie with the other volunteers, but what I actually get out of it is knowing that some generally decent fellas aren't sleeping outside on subzero temperatures. That is why I've mostly done the 2am to 6am shift and don't even meet them most of them time as they are asleep.

I'm saying this because I actually feel a little but sorry for you that your outlook on life is so depressing. If you genuinely only believe people do things for the reasons you think, you must have a terribly low opinion of the world in general and see little joy in things. People can get satisfaction out of helping people, especially when it is helping other people share something they enjoy.

I truly hope you can one day start to see the good in the world, because there is not enough of it anyway, and it tends to shrivel up and die when it is not appreciated..

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm not saying it's a solution mate? I'm saying if the mods hate their moderator role as much as they claim on here then perhaps they should step down. Sorry I thought that was clear.

Conversely, if the moderation here isn’t to your liking, and the site owner is happy with the current team’s efforts, maybe it’s you that should consider leaving.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Sorry, I figured you were smart enough to figure that out.

 kronk wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm not saying it's a solution mate? I'm saying if the mods hate their moderator role as much as they claim on here then perhaps they should step down. Sorry I thought that was clear.

Conversely, if the moderation here isn’t to your liking, and the site owner is happy with the current team’s efforts, maybe it’s you that should consider leaving.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Sorry, I figured you were smart enough to figure that out.

Perhaps, but this thread isn't about whether I should leave or not is it? It's about the actions of moderators isn't it? Maybe you should focus on the actual topic rather than slinging these idiotic statements around that add absolutely nothing to the discussion and are yet more veiled attacks?

I have left, I took a leave of absence when I last called into question a moderator's actions and nothing was done. Not that it's any of your business, because you are literally a no-one on the internet.

 Ketara wrote:
The fact that you have this strange idea that I need a 'defence' though, is the problem in your approach here. The fact that my moderation powers are circumscribed to one area of the site doesn't mean that I'm suddenly exonerated of a need to justify myself to you. Why? Because I never had that obligation in the first place.

This very topic seems to suggest otherwise. No-one is saying you (or any other mod) is on trial. But your actions are being called into question and I'd have thought that warrants some sort of 'defence'. What did you think the topic was about?

Guys, I'm not gonna slam on the mods, but in the last few months I can think of more occasions that the mod was the one violating the rules than any time since I started posting here, almost a decade ago.

While they're human and are, therefore, not perfect, might I suggest that posting in a thread might mean that one recuse oneself from moderating it. I mean, when I ran Dark Reign, I allowed this sort of thing to get out of hand, and the results were not pretty.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Guys, I'm not gonna slam on the mods, but in the last few months I can think of more occasions that the mod was the one violating the rules than any time since I started posting here, almost a decade ago.

While they're human and are, therefore, not perfect, might I suggest that posting in a thread might mean that one recuse oneself from moderating it. I mean, when I ran Dark Reign, I allowed this sort of thing to get out of hand, and the results were not pretty.

I am sure the mod team will contemplate the issue (when they sober up). Absent OT I don't see it as much of an issue. The RAW forum gets persnickety but that's the nature of the beast.

I always assume that white text is a mod using this site like any other user, and red or orange text is when they are acting in OFFICIAL MOD BIDNESS. Mods are hobbyists, too.*




*I assume. Some might just be in it for the heady buzz that the sheer power they wield gives them

Correct RE: color text.

Is this the part where we go Robespierre on the Mods and burn the forums down around us?

I think the US politics thread can be good, if only to give us non Americans insight into how those crazy yanks think. I also see a lot of mud getting thrown now and then in the UK politics thread but it doesn’t get locked, so...

It was also how I kept up on my American news, since I can’t quite bring myself to google ‘what did the Americans do this time.

The thread didn’t seem that heated at the time. It really did seem like a spite lock from Kilkrazy, which was strange to me when I saw it since that’s not normally how the mods operate. This site has a pretty good team, even if they can be strangely strict about only one kind of politics.

The US Politics thread is not a good source to learn about politics in the US.

Well, it does alright for itself when people provide sources and news articles to look at, between the two sides lobbing hyperbole at each other.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Well, it does alright for itself when people provide sources and news articles to look at, between the two sides lobbing hyperbole at each other.

To be honest, Dakka is a more reliable source than the mega corporate media organs nowadays.


As a Canadian, it would do you well to ignore U.S. politics, as entertaining as it might seem. You'll eventually burst into flames from the stupidity assaulting your senses.

It makes me appreciate what we have more. Can you believe there are Canadians that would trade Trudeau for Trump? They would trade Mr. Dressup for... that.

Also, its like a train wreck, where its horrible and you dont want to watch, but you cant just look away or put the popcorn down.

 Manchu wrote:
The US Politics thread is not a good source to learn about politics in the US.

Totally disagree. It's utterly full of feigned obtuseness, faux-outrage, a nonstop cycle of people spinning flat out lies, people rebutting said lies, said lies being repeated until people get tired of rebutting them, and other sundry stupidity.

It's totally broken and is 100% an accurate reflection of how things actually are right now.

Unless you mean how the US political system works? In which case I agree, procedural stuff rarely if ever is discussed.

Politics threads are always the worst ones to try and moderate because politics is more important to most of us than other things, it is about values and right and wrong. So it cuts to the core of people and gets people riled up.

I did quite enjoy the Dakka US politics thread, but I am a political junkie and quite enjoy arguments. But I could see on several occasions that it was bringing out the worst in me. I am sorry that it was locked but I can see why Kilkrazy might have gotten frustrated and locked it. He is a decent bloke, normally pretty chilled out, but it is stressful trying to walk the line on a thread like that.

We should try to chill out about it and accept that it is no big deal if the politics thread is locked. It was only reopened on a sufferance and it always had a limited lifespan because essentially it relied on the mods ability to be patient with the inevitable spats and digs such threads bring about.

I hope they reopen it in future, but if you think the mods here are bad or unfair I would suggest you go and have a look at some other fora for comparison. Usually it is zero mod anarchy or a fascist dictatorship.

Yeah, in the interests of balance, despite the problems I’ve had with Dakkadakka staff, at least this place isn’t tv tropes. The mods there are outright bullies and don’t even bother pretending to be impartial.

See their number one “rule” is don’t be a dick. But that’s very open to interpretation. And for some of them, holding opposite opinions from them is ‘being a dick’ that leaves you liable to be suspended or banned. Even minor things like liking or disliking a movie they like/don’t like will get you warned or even suspended for ‘disrupting the thread’. They really are that petty.

The problem is their ‘stay positive’ mission that outlaws any criticism of anything whatsoever, no matter how warranted or constructive it is.

So yeah, here’s not perfect, far from it. But there’s far far worse out there.

 An Actual Brit wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 An Actual Dude from the UK wrote:
I'm not saying it's a solution mate? I'm saying if the mods hate their moderator role as much as they claim on here then perhaps they should step down. Sorry I thought that was clear.

Conversely, if the moderation here isn’t to your liking, and the site owner is happy with the current team’s efforts, maybe it’s you that should consider leaving.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Sorry, I figured you were smart enough to figure that out.

Perhaps, but this thread isn't about whether I should leave or not is it? It's about the actions of moderators isn't it? Maybe you should focus on the actual topic rather than slinging these idiotic statements around that add absolutely nothing to the discussion and are yet more veiled attacks?

I have left, I took a leave of absence when I last called into question a moderator's actions and nothing was done. Not that it's any of your business, because you are literally a no-one on the internet.

The topic is some people aren’t happy with the moderation.

One option is to leave. That option is 100% on topic, whether you like it or not. That is the fun part of discussion forums. You get to see all kinds of crazy ideas!,,

Also, reported for rule 1 violation.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Is this the part where we go Robespierre on the Mods and burn the forums down around us?

I think the US politics thread can be good, if only to give us non Americans insight into how those crazy yanks think. I also see a lot of mud getting thrown now and then in the UK politics thread but it doesn’t get locked, so...

It was also how I kept up on my American news, since I can’t quite bring myself to google ‘what did the Americans do this time.

The thread didn’t seem that heated at the time. It really did seem like a spite lock from Kilkrazy, which was strange to me when I saw it since that’s not normally how the mods operate. This site has a pretty good team, even if they can be strangely strict about only one kind of politics.

Can I be Napoleon. I will learn from his mistakes and burn Berlin.

For the most part I think the moderation here is fine, but there are a few mods in particular that are awesome at thinly veiled insults, goading and sometimes posting stuff that flat out would classify as trolling. When those same mods step up and start moderating others it does come across as a bit of a joke, especially if they were the ones involved in the inflammatory discussion they are now moderating.

That said I didn't follow the US politics discussion posts in question, I'm speaking more generally. I've stayed away from that cesspool, I think Dakka was a better place with that discussion banned.

Anyway, on the one hand I understand mods take their mod hats off to post, but at the same time the folks with mod under their names represent dakka as an entity more than the rest of us do and they should be holding themselves to that standard that the regular trolls they seek to moderate.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
For the most part I think the moderation here is fine, but there are a few mods in particular that are awesome at thinly veiled insults, goading and sometimes posting stuff that flat out would classify as trolling. When those same mods step up and start moderating others it does come across as a bit of a joke, especially if they were the ones involved in the inflammatory discussion they are now moderating.

That said I didn't follow the US politics discussion posts in question, I'm speaking more generally. I've stayed away from that cesspool, I think Dakka was a better place with that discussion banned.

Agreed on both accounts. There’s a couple of mods on my ignore list for that very reason. And I think the site would be better off without political threads period.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

And I think the site would be better off without political threads period.

I tried that once. It did not go well. To the degree people were banned for starting them, and DR reached 250 bans a day. We were literally banning more people than were joining to make a relative minority happy. At that point we changed policy to allow it again.

Further, not allowing it turns into a moderation nightmare if we allow any discussion of news or current events at all, because people start spamming the 'report' button if someone even mentions a political figure and someone else does not like that poster..