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So many things keep coming from the US, these days. And then there is this "trade war" with China. Timing is also weird - it's clear China is still a crucial ally for dealing with North Korea, and yet Trump keep insisting on these tariffs right now. Maybe going for World War 3, heh.

I know Trump is clearly focusing on campaigning for his next mandate, but still...wonder how he can manage to handle the race to the finish line, at this pace.

Yes, kids in cage are horrible. But to be honest, when seeing howTrump was praising North Korea's dictator, it makes sense that it wouldn't bother him. Morality is clearly not his priority (was it even once in his life?).

The defense doesn't surprise me. When I read the comments on Twitter, it's the same arguments that keep coming - deflecting on what Obama and Hillary "did", most of the time.

Anyway, aren't the two chambers still in the hands of the Republicans ? They can do anything they want without the Democrats, right ? They just need to vote as a party fully united, after all. Line behind the Great Leader. So, what's really "blocking" in the end ?

Yes, at this point the GOP holds the presidency, both houses of congress, and a majority on the SCOTUS, which is why it's especially execrable when the democrats are randomly getting blamed for stuff (like the lie about them being responsible for child separation).

Even if it were true (and it's not), the GOP literally holds every level of power currently. They have never seemed to be able to move past the aggrieved language of minority losers into actually governing. Even now, it's a near daily tirade of persecution and unjustness straight from the twitter feed of the POTUS. The election is long over and they don't seem to realize they won.

 Sarouan wrote:
So many things keep coming from the US, these days. And then there is this "trade war" with China. Timing is also weird - it's clear China is still a crucial ally for dealing with North Korea, and yet Trump keep insisting on these tariffs right now. Maybe going for World War 3, heh.

I know Trump is clearly focusing on campaigning for his next mandate, but still...wonder how he can manage to handle the race to the finish line, at this pace.

Yes, kids in cage are horrible. But to be honest, when seeing howTrump was praising North Korea's dictator, it makes sense that it wouldn't bother him. Morality is clearly not his priority (was it even once in his life?).

The defense doesn't surprise me. When I read the comments on Twitter, it's the same arguments that keep coming - deflecting on what Obama and Hillary "did", most of the time.

Anyway, aren't the two chambers still in the hands of the Republicans ? They can do anything they want without the Democrats, right ? They just need to vote as a party fully united, after all. Line behind the Great Leader. So, what's really "blocking" in the end ?

60 votes are need in the Senate.
Congress has forgotten how to legislate. They have not unilaterally attempted to pass legislation without Presidential Leadership since Newt Gingrich. Pragmatically, the President has led Congress on new legislation since FDR. Obama was a dilettante who thought he could delegate everything to Pelosi/Schumer (fiasco) and Trump doesn't know what the word leadership even means. Plus he picks fights with his own party even when they are trying to push legislation he supports on apparent whims (because again, he's not actually part of the Republican Party, he's purely Trump Party).

To be fair, when the basis of your ideology is that the State always is bad, of course you can't govern effectively; to do so would undermine your own reason for existing in the first place.

 Ouze wrote:
Yes, at this point the GOP holds the presidency, both houses of congress, and a majority on the SCOTUS, which is why it's especially execrable when the democrats are randomly getting blamed for stuff (like the lie about them being responsible for child separation).

Even if it were true (and it's not), the GOP literally holds every level of power currently. They have never seemed to be able to move past the aggrieved language of minority losers into actually governing. Even now, it's a near daily tired of persecution and unjustness straight from the twitter feed of the POTUS. The election is long over and they don't seem to realize they won.

Yes. At this point I am ok with that. Waiting on changing fates to bring in better people. The US cycles. We are in a low point. That will change.

 Frazzled wrote:
The US cycles. We are in a low point. That will change.

Intellectually I know this is true but boy it sure doesn't feel like that, this feels like the last 10 minutes of The Empire Strikes Back every day.

 Sarouan wrote:
So many things keep coming from the US, these days. And then there is this "trade war" with China. Timing is also weird - it's clear China is still a crucial ally for dealing with North Korea, and yet Trump keep insisting on these tariffs right now. Maybe going for World War 3, heh.

I know Trump is clearly focusing on campaigning for his next mandate, but still...wonder how he can manage to handle the race to the finish line, at this pace.

Yes, kids in cage are horrible. But to be honest, when seeing howTrump was praising North Korea's dictator, it makes sense that it wouldn't bother him. Morality is clearly not his priority (was it even once in his life?).

The defense doesn't surprise me. When I read the comments on Twitter, it's the same arguments that keep coming - deflecting on what Obama and Hillary "did", most of the time.

Anyway, aren't the two chambers still in the hands of the Republicans ? They can do anything they want without the Democrats, right ? They just need to vote as a party fully united, after all. Line behind the Great Leader. So, what's really "blocking" in the end ?

Nobody is under the impression that this is somehow out of Trump's hands. It's culture war theater and political hardball, not a policy or legislation failure.

 sebster wrote:
[Bail values are set according to the financial circumstance of the accused.

.

It's also based on the likelihood of flight from justice. Someone with strong ties to a community gets lower bail than someone that doesn't.

 Sarouan wrote:


I know Trump is clearly focusing on campaigning for his next mandate, but still...wonder how he can manage to handle the race to the finish line, at this pace.

Yes, kids in cage are horrible. But to be honest, when seeing howTrump was praising North Korea's dictator, it makes sense that it wouldn't bother him. Morality is clearly not his priority (was it even once in his life?).

Trump's probably a 'mild' psychopath.

You can read more about such characteristics here:-

https://www.thoughtco.com/characteristics-of-the-psychopathic-personality-973128

for example

If the ploy fails to work and they are blamed, they will emphatically deny any responsibility and, without feeling any shame, turn to lies, manipulation and point their fingers at the "true" culprits. When psychopaths are unable to convince those in superior positions that they have not erred, they fume, and obsess over it, often murmuring sarcastic comments under their breath as they plot their revenge.

A lot of what Trump exhibits falls into these characterisations. What it doesn't mean is he runs around gunning people down.

 sebster wrote:
[
Anyhow, I don't agree it's worse, but I guess it doesn't really matter which recent acts by GW Bush or Trump were objectively greater breaches of human rights. Jesus, what a conversation.

Hey, I think you missed a President in there that had a history of human rights violations. Obama's policy of drone striking the Hell out of anything that moves, and targeting even American citizens abroad without due process is also pretty heinous.

 Ouze wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
The US cycles. We are in a low point. That will change.

Intellectually I know this is true but boy it sure doesn't feel like that, this feels like the last 10 minutes of The Empire Strikes Back every day.

Come on, Vader was Way more competent!

 cuda1179 wrote:
Hey, I think you missed a President in there that had a history of human rights violations. Obama's policy of drone striking the Hell out of anything that moves, and targeting even American citizens abroad without due process is also pretty heinous.

Anyone remember that time Obama built prisons for children, or kept them in cages raise a hand. How about his endorsement of brutal dictators? No? Oh, he didn't? Drone strikes on terrorists? Get a real crime against humanity. next you'll complain about shooting Osama Bin Laden without a trial.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The issue with voter ID laws is that those who fight so hard for them aren't willing to put even half that same effort into getting those IDs to the people who need them.

I will agree with this.

For the sake of voter rolls, I think that some proof of eligibility should be necessary to register. And in those states that allow illegal aliens to vote in local elections (hey if a state wants that, I'll support their opinion for LOCAL elections) they should be forced to have two voter rolls, one for local elections, one for national.

Automatically registering people to vote when they get an ID (or in other instances) should be perfected. I'd love to have as many eligible people as possible registered to vote, but the holes in the system that allow non-eligible people to be registered to vote are huge.

Now, when it comes to voter ID laws, I think the only ID's allowed should be government issued ID's (Driver's license, passport, military ID, non-driver ID, etc.). I'm not so supportive of College ID's. At any rate, if ID's are needed to vote, the non-driver citizen ID's should be totally free, and easily accessible to obtain. Every Courthouse, post office, and Government office should be able to take applications for them. I also believe that penalties for applying for such ID when you knowingly lie should be real.

I also think that states that allow illegal aliens to obtain driver's licenses should have their Driver's license specifically marked with a "not eligible to vote" tagline. (also do this for felons and people that renounced their citizenship).

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Hey, I think you missed a President in there that had a history of human rights violations. Obama's policy of drone striking the Hell out of anything that moves, and targeting even American citizens abroad without due process is also pretty heinous.

Anyone remember that time Obama built prisons for children, or kept them in cages raise a hand. How about his endorsement of brutal dictators? No? Oh, he didn't? Drone strikes on terrorists? Get a real crime against humanity. next you'll complain about shooting Osama Bin Laden without a trial.

One of the kids in a cage pics is from 2014.

But the context of that picture is entirely different. That was out of necessity for the amount of unacompanied minors flooding in overloading shelter in 2014, not a choice as made by the current admin.

 Easy E wrote:
As many of you know, I am a small business owner in a rural upper midwest town. I am a "Job-Creator" for about 20+ peope. I am far away from the Mexican border, so far in fact that I can drive to Canada in less than a day.

about 60 days ago, my best worker was pulled over for a violation. She was arrested and then sent to an immigration holding facility. Within 60 days she was deported to Mexico without even getting a day in court or an attorney.

She had been a resident since she was 1. She was not very good at speaking Spanish, as English was her native language. She has two kids who are now stranded in our state as the father has been out of the picture and in Texas.
She was employed, a hard worker, paid taxes, had HS degree, and saving up money for a house. Now, she is in a strange land where she knows no one and can barely speak the language.

We have many Mexican and Hispanic residents and business owners in my community. They are scared that at any moment someone can come, accuse them of a crime, have their kids taken from them, and shipped to Mexico without any recourse. She only had the clothes on her back and the money in her pocket when she was arrested.

I used to think this was hyperbole, until I saw it happen to my own friend. Each of them has a similar story.

.

All right, I have some questions, as I am also a Midwestern business owner that employs about that many people. Did you know she was illegal? If so, why did you employ her? If no, then that likely means she was improperly using someone else's identity. I somehow doubt that she wasn't given any time in an immigration court, and you don't get afforded an attorney in civil court. Her children are not stranded in her state. By definition they are also Mexican citizens (as their mother is) and are free to join her if they so choose.

Now, I'm not totally heartless. This must really suck for her and her children. However, it was her parents that put her in the position initially, and she continued to live in that position of her own free will long after she was in control of her own life. We as a country have the right to establish our borders and regulate immigration.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

Anyone remember that time Obama built prisons for children, or kept them in cages raise a hand.

Raises hand.

http://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

 BaronIveagh wrote:
How about his endorsement of brutal dictators?

Hand still raised.

https://theintercept.com/2015/03/31/obama-lifts-freeze-weapons-transfer-egyptian-dictator/

Just one example. Its diplomacy, and nearly every US president tends to have relations with unsavory folks. Never to Trumps level, of course, but that the nature of the Trump-beast.

I get that you don't like Trump, that's totally cool and your right, but lets take off the rose colored glasses.

So are you arguing that Sisi is on the same level as Kim?

Regarding the 2014 pictures, again: But the context of that picture is entirely different. That was out of necessity for the amount of unacompanied minors flooding in overloading shelter in 2014, not a choice as made by the current admin.

I mean the article even explains the context.

 Frazzled wrote:
[
All citizens have a Social Security Card.
You cannot write a check, make a major payment, or even enter many government offices without ID.
I am fully behind making it easy to get said ID. Any post office, DMV, police station, or grocery store/department store which meets minimal criteria should be able to issue one, free of charge to the citizen.

If I have to have government approved ID to avail myself of my Second Amendment rights, then voters should have to have ID to vote to elect people who could change those rights.

Actually Frazz, that's not quite accurate. There is NO requirement that any citizen must obtain a Social Security number. It is not mandatory, no one can make you do it, and hospitals are technically banned from automatically doing it for you without your permission. Lack of a Social Security number can not be used to deny you any right. You can still vote, pay taxes, be employed, get medical attention, get welfare, travel the country, get a driver's license, or even buy a gun (although sometimes it complicates the issue). In fact there was a lawsuit a while back that verified that an employer can NOT discriminate against you and deny you employment because of a lack of a Social Security Number.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

You think it’s silly to require proof to have your right to free speech. So you must also have to think it is silly to have ID requirements for any other right, otherwise you are applying a double standard. Because you can’t have tiers of rights. A right is a right.

You can certainly have tiers of rights. Any time rights interact, they are organised into tiers. You have the right of free speech, but people also have the right to not be slandered which trumps your right to free speech.

Actually, that's not quite right. You still have the right to slander anyone you want, and the government will not stop you. Facing the civil litigation for that is another matter.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
So are you arguing that Sisi is on the same level as Kim?

Nah, not arguing anything. Kim is a different kind of dictator, but same related species.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Regarding the 2014 pictures, again: But the context of that picture is entirely different. That was out of necessity for the amount of unacompanied minors flooding in overloading shelter in 2014, not a choice as made by the current admin.

I mean the article even explains the context.

So it was morally acceptable under Obama?

 cuda1179 wrote:

 sebster wrote:
[
Anyhow, I don't agree it's worse, but I guess it doesn't really matter which recent acts by GW Bush or Trump were objectively greater breaches of human rights. Jesus, what a conversation.

Hey, I think you missed a President in there that had a history of human rights violations. Obama's policy of drone striking the Hell out of anything that moves, and targeting even American citizens abroad without due process is also pretty heinous.

If it wasn't you I'd think this was a sarcastic joke.

 nels1031 wrote:

So it was morally acceptable under Obama?

You do understand the difference between unaccompanied and accompanied, right?

At any rate, I have my comment on voter IDs from before:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Voter fraud only exists as an issue to help Republicans suppress voters who tend to vote Democrat. There is essentially zero voter fraud, the number amounts to less than a rounding error. Again, it only exists to suppress voters who trend towards Democrat voters. There is no other logical explanation, and to suggest otherwise is to support suppressing voters because you disagree with them. I cannot stress this enough.

Yeah, I thought it was crystal clear that when Great Leader said there were "millions of illegal votes" he meant the votes that weren't cast for him.

 d-usa wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:

So it was morally acceptable under Obama?

You do understand the difference between unaccompanied and accompanied, right?

Yeah, bro.

You do understand the question was :

Anyone remember that time Obama built prisons for children, or kept them in cages raise a hand.

, right?

 nels1031 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:

So it was morally acceptable under Obama?

You do understand the difference between unaccompanied and accompanied, right?

Yeah, bro.

You do understand the question was :

Anyone remember that time Obama built prisons for children, or kept them in cages raise a hand.

, right?

You realize that's a disingenuous argument that entirely dances around the point and amounts to whataboutism defending what's happening, right?

 nels1031 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:

So it was morally acceptable under Obama?

You do understand the difference between unaccompanied and accompanied, right?

Yeah, bro.

You do understand the question was :

Anyone remember that time Obama built prisons for children, or kept them in cages raise a hand.

, right?

Don't worry brosef, brosiden lord of the brocean, brozilla we know you are being obtuse and purposefully missing the point

 nels1031 wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
So are you arguing that Sisi is on the same level as Kim?

Nah, not arguing anything. Kim is a different kind of dictator, but same related species.

Hell no, Kim is on an entirely different plane of species than Sisi, equating the two is ridiculous. What is even more ridiculous is you equating Obama lifting weapon sanctions on Egypt as somehow being an endorsement like the blatant apologism of Trump, hint out of your own biased article:

During the call, “President Obama also reiterated U.S. concerns about Egypt’s continued imprisonment of non-violent activists and mass trials,” and “encouraged increased respect for freedom of speech and assembly and emphasized that these issues remain a focus for the United States.”

Funny way of endorsing people compared to this:

“We’re having very good discussions. Kim Jong-un, he really has been very open and I think very honourable, from everything we’re seeing”, Mr Trump told reporters in the Oval Office.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-kim-jongun-meeting-summit-white-house-us-north-korea-a8320391.html

"Well, he is very talented," Trump said. "Anybody that takes over a situation like he did at 26 years of age and is able to run it and run it tough. I don't say he was nice."

"Very few people at that age – you can take one out of ten thousand probably couldn’t do it."

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391785-trump-says-kim-has-a-great-personality

 nels1031 wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Regarding the 2014 pictures, again: But the context of that picture is entirely different. That was out of necessity for the amount of unacompanied minors flooding in overloading shelter in 2014, not a choice as made by the current admin.

I mean the article even explains the context.

So it was morally acceptable under Obama?

Again, context matters. They were temporarily housed there, it would have been unacceptable to have held them any longer than required. Meanwhile Trump policy is to put them there in the first place. Can't believe you're actually equating the two as somehow on the same level.

So a certain church had something to say about a certain someone's justification of seperating families.

Remember that time PETA took dogs from people? It really was no different than all the times dogs wandering alone were put in a shelter. Totally the same, nothing to see.