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Vaktathi wrote: While I dont agree with Waters' statement, if thats the hill we're gonna choose to die on over common decency, well, I feel comfortable stating that we should probably be aiming elsewhere.
These are public officials leading public lives driving public policy in positions of wealth and power, who ran on a platform of "feth your feelings", and have been caustic, divisive, belligerent, insulting and offensive, and intentionally so, for the last several years since Trump started his campaign and have only kicked it into higher gear since entering office, and who are currently pushing policies that not too long ago would have been thought impossible in the US by common standards of decency.
So, while I dont condone people going out and harrassing others, if we're complain about common decency, that's a hard pill to swallow in this case.
Just remember, the same will be visited on the Democrats as well. While I support their right of free speech and association and would not attempt to stop it legally (as long as they don't violate the law), it will just continue us down the path.
South of the border, political candidates are routinely being executed.
Good gracious... does everyone forget the attempted assasination attempt of Steve Scalise on baseball field, by a Bernie Bro????
People will get hurt with rhetoric like this.
Did you for a second think to include Gabrielle Giffords when you mentioned Steve Scalise?
You know, to address the toxicity in American political discourse in general......or was it a blind partisan attempt at scoring a point for you?
Or are you going attempt to argue that since Giffords was shot in 2012, it isn't a part of the current toxicity?
I'm sure 'maybe the Second Amendment folks can do something about that' doesn't qualify as 'dangerous rhetoric'.
Vaktathi wrote: While I dont agree with Waters' statement, if thats the hill we're gonna choose to die on over common decency, well, I feel comfortable stating that we should probably be aiming elsewhere.
These are public officials leading public lives driving public policy in positions of wealth and power, who ran on a platform of "feth your feelings", and have been caustic, divisive, belligerent, insulting and offensive, and intentionally so, for the last several years since Trump started his campaign and have only kicked it into higher gear since entering office, and who are currently pushing policies that not too long ago would have been thought impossible in the US by common standards of decency.
So, while I dont condone people going out and harrassing others, if we're complain about common decency, that's a hard pill to swallow in this case.
Just remember, the same will be visited on the Democrats as well. While I support their right of free speech and association and would not attempt to stop it legally (as long as they don't violate the law), it will just continue us down the path.
South of the border, political candidates are routinely being executed.
Good gracious... does everyone forget the attempted assasination attempt of Steve Scalise on baseball field, by a Bernie Bro????
People will get hurt with rhetoric like this.
Did you for a second think to include Gabrielle Giffords when you mentioned Steve Scalise?
You know, to address the toxicity in American political discourse in general......or was it a blind partisan attempt at scoring a point for you?
Or are you going attempt to argue that since Giffords was shot in 2012, it isn't a part of the current toxicity?
...who on the not #TheResistance side is calling for what Maxine Water is advocating for?
Also, Giffords was shot by a nutcase... not a partisan.
Also, Giffords was shot by a nutcase... not a partisan.
Ah yes, the trusty No True Scotsman.
When it is "Them", it is a partisan that demonstrates that the entire opposing ideology is toxic.
When it is "Us", it is a poor lone nutcase (probably a victim of "Their" evil failing health-care schemes).
C´mon, Whembly.......
you can do better than that. the Giffords assassin:
In January 2012, Loughner was found by a federal judge to be incompetent to stand trial based on two medical evaluations, which diagnosed him with paranoid schizophrenia.[11] Judged still incompetent to stand trial on May 25, finally on August 7, Loughner had a hearing at which he was judged competent. He pleaded guilty to 19 counts, and in November 2012 was sentenced to life in prison.
If you want to play the political game, MLK's assassin, or Sirhan Sirhan is much more in line.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Also, Giffords was shot by a nutcase... not a partisan.
Ah yes, the trusty No True Scotsman.
When it is "Them", it is a partisan that demonstrates that the entire opposing ideology is toxic.
When it is "Us", it is a poor lone nutcase (probably a victim of "Their" evil failing health-care schemes).
C´mon, Whembly.......
you can do better than that. the Giffords assassin:
In January 2012, Loughner was found by a federal judge to be incompetent to stand trial based on two medical evaluations, which diagnosed him with paranoid schizophrenia.[11] Judged still incompetent to stand trial on May 25, finally on August 7, Loughner had a hearing at which he was judged competent. He pleaded guilty to 19 counts, and in November 2012 was sentenced to life in prison.
If you want to play the political game, MLK's assassin, or Sirhan Sirhan is much more in line.
Plus in his ramblings and writings his tone was very similar to the logic of the tea party
you can do better than that. the Giffords assassin:
In January 2012, Loughner was found by a federal judge to be incompetent to stand trial based on two medical evaluations, which diagnosed him with paranoid schizophrenia.[11] Judged still incompetent to stand trial on May 25, finally on August 7, Loughner had a hearing at which he was judged competent. He pleaded guilty to 19 counts, and in November 2012 was sentenced to life in prison.
If you want to play the political game, MLK's assassin, or Sirhan Sirhan is much more in line.
You think I was trying to play the political game?!?! You sure you are not projecting a tiny bit?
I was trying to appeal to balance in the discourse. That assaults on politicians (of all stripes) are unacceptable.
The US political and social discourse is highly dysfunctional - dominated by a horrible vile Us or Them mentality.
To make it really clear for you - I am saying that the people of the so-called United States should tell your politicians (all of them) to shut the hell up.
Republicans are not Nazis.
Democrats are not Communists (almost as bad a label in the US).
-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
Also, Giffords was shot by a nutcase... not a partisan.
Ah yes, the trusty No True Scotsman.
When it is "Them", it is a partisan that demonstrates that the entire opposing ideology is toxic.
When it is "Us", it is a poor lone nutcase (probably a victim of "Their" evil failing health-care schemes).
C´mon, Whembly.......
No... There is literally and never was any evidence that the Gabby shooter was inspired by the “crosshairs” map put out by Sarah PAC.
Because that is definitely NOT the kind of rhetoric that gets people hurt. Neither is the mainstream conservative news network routinely calling Obama a Kenyan born muslim with a deep seated hatred of white people. I get it. Political discourse sucks, this very topic is testament to that. But seriously, republicans elected a guy who based his entire campaign on inflammatory rhetoric. Now its a bridge too far?
Also, Giffords was shot by a nutcase... not a partisan.
Ah yes, the trusty No True Scotsman.
When it is "Them", it is a partisan that demonstrates that the entire opposing ideology is toxic.
When it is "Us", it is a poor lone nutcase (probably a victim of "Their" evil failing health-care schemes).
C´mon, Whembly.......
No... There is literally and never was any evidence that the Gabby shooter was inspired by the “crosshairs” map put out by Sarah PAC.
Because that is definitely NOT the kind of rhetoric that gets people hurt. Neither is the mainstream conservative news network routinely calling Obama a Kenyan born muslim with a deep seated hatred of white people. I get it. Political discourse sucks, this very topic is testament to that. But seriously, republicans elected a guy who based his entire campaign on inflammatory rhetoric. Now its a bridge too far?
And considering they elected a man who started a movement that the past president wasn't an american because they couldn't stand the fact that he was black.
Vaktathi wrote: While I dont agree with Waters' statement, if thats the hill we're gonna choose to die on over common decency, well, I feel comfortable stating that we should probably be aiming elsewhere.
These are public officials leading public lives driving public policy in positions of wealth and power, who ran on a platform of "feth your feelings", and have been caustic, divisive, belligerent, insulting and offensive, and intentionally so, for the last several years since Trump started his campaign and have only kicked it into higher gear since entering office, and who are currently pushing policies that not too long ago would have been thought impossible in the US by common standards of decency.
So, while I dont condone people going out and harrassing others, if we're complain about common decency, that's a hard pill to swallow in this case.
Just remember, the same will be visited on the Democrats as well. While I support their right of free speech and association and would not attempt to stop it legally (as long as they don't violate the law), it will just continue us down the path.
I dont disagree, hence why I stated I disagreed with Waters, but lets be real, Waters is a bit player in the lowering of the bar on the national conversation, there are far better targets for clutching our pearls at, and lets acknowledge that, broadly speaking, that rhetoric has far more powerful, influential, and mainstream drivers on the other side, and does far less to distance itself from such rhetoric given the current administration.
We also need to acknowledge that showing people the door vs discrimination or harrassment are different things, especially for those in public sector jobs. I dont condone Waters calling for the latter, I dont think it will be productive in the long term (and other congressional democrats including Pelosi appear to agree), but I also dont have an issue with Sanders being shown the door because of her personal actions or those of an elected public official she sought out a job with.
Good gracious... does everyone forget the attempted assasination attempt of Steve Scalise on baseball field, by a Bernie Bro????
People will get hurt with rhetoric like this.
Nobody has forgotten, but if we're talking about "rhetoric like this", lets acknowledge it is used and courted a lot more by the current administration than anyone else, and that Waters' party leadership is immediately distancing themselves from her statement. Yeah, Scalise got shot by a crazy person who drank the koolaid. So did Giffords.
Hell, we had a literal *armed takeover* of a federal facility just a couple of years ago driven by such rhetoric. We have Sandy Hook families who were harrassed and abused for years as agents of a Democratic false flag gun confiscation scheme.
I dont support Waters' or her statement or the kinds of actions she calls for, in fact generally find her to be a partisan blowhard worried far more about keeping her seat than anything else (and i hate that I feel like Im defending her here, im trying not to), but if Maxine Waters is the one we're going to be worried about shifting the political landscape into dangerous territory and the laws of unintended consequences to follow, I might suggest that our concerns are probably more accurately aimed at the people who ran on "feth your feelings" as a general platform.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Also, Giffords was shot by a nutcase... not a partisan.
Ah yes, the trusty No True Scotsman.
When it is "Them", it is a partisan that demonstrates that the entire opposing ideology is toxic.
When it is "Us", it is a poor lone nutcase (probably a victim of "Their" evil failing health-care schemes).
C´mon, Whembly.......
No... There is literally and never was any evidence that the Gabby shooter was inspired by the “crosshairs” map put out by Sarah PAC.
Because that is definitely NOT the kind of rhetoric that gets people hurt. Neither is the mainstream conservative news network routinely calling Obama a Kenyan born muslim with a deep seated hatred of white people. I get it. Political discourse sucks, this very topic is testament to that. But seriously, republicans elected a guy who based his entire campaign on inflammatory rhetoric. Now its a bridge too far?
<---this guy didn't vote for Trump.
The way to deal with bad actors from #TheResistance, Antifa and poltiicians like Maxine Waters advocacy is to shine a light on them. Call them out at every opportunity. I would go even further, from a political standpoint, is to ask every Democrat official you can whether they agree with Maxime that cabinet members should be harassed in public.
I mean, if poeple are determined to “punch back twice as hard”, as a former POTUS opined, then they're using the actions of a few crazies on the other side to justify bad behavior that they'd want to engage in anyway. The people who carry out Maxine Waters’s exhortations are scum. The people who use those exhortations as an excuse aren’t much better either.
It's out job to point this out if for nothing else, ensures a civil society. Because, if we don't... as frazzled mentions... we're one step closer to chaos.
Also, Giffords was shot by a nutcase... not a partisan.
Ah yes, the trusty No True Scotsman.
When it is "Them", it is a partisan that demonstrates that the entire opposing ideology is toxic.
When it is "Us", it is a poor lone nutcase (probably a victim of "Their" evil failing health-care schemes).
C´mon, Whembly.......
No... There is literally and never was any evidence that the Gabby shooter was inspired by the “crosshairs” map put out by Sarah PAC.
Because that is definitely NOT the kind of rhetoric that gets people hurt. Neither is the mainstream conservative news network routinely calling Obama a Kenyan born muslim with a deep seated hatred of white people. I get it. Political discourse sucks, this very topic is testament to that. But seriously, republicans elected a guy who based his entire campaign on inflammatory rhetoric. Now its a bridge too far?
<---this guy didn't vote for Trump.
The way to deal with bad actors from #TheResistance, Antifa and poltiicians like Maxine Waters advocacy is to shine a light on them. Call them out at every opportunity. I would go even further, from a political standpoint, is to ask every Democrat official you can whether they agree with Maxime that cabinet members should be harassed in public.
I mean, if poeple are determined to “punch back twice as hard”, as a former POTUS opined, then they're using the actions of a few crazies on the other side to justify bad behavior that they'd want to engage in anyway. The people who carry out Maxine Waters’s exhortations are scum. The people who use those exhortations as an excuse aren’t much better either.
It's out job to point this out if for nothing else, ensures a civil society. Because, if we don't... as frazzled mentions... we're one step closer to chaos.
Do you support the GOP? Because if you support the GOP it is the party of Trump at the moment
Also, Giffords was shot by a nutcase... not a partisan.
Ah yes, the trusty No True Scotsman.
When it is "Them", it is a partisan that demonstrates that the entire opposing ideology is toxic.
When it is "Us", it is a poor lone nutcase (probably a victim of "Their" evil failing health-care schemes).
C´mon, Whembly.......
No... There is literally and never was any evidence that the Gabby shooter was inspired by the “crosshairs” map put out by Sarah PAC.
What are you talking about?
That is a ridiculously narrow standard to invent to determine whether Gabrielle Giffords' attacker was politically motivated.
Because I'm literally telling you that the example you proffered in support of your assertion is misplaced. But, hey, s'not your fault as the NYT forgot their own writers disputed this smear as well...
"civil society" while we have a pres. making excuses for neo-Nazis murdering people. It would be a laugh if it wasn't so serious.
But it's all the same hypocrisy, then as now - the right can be as violent as it wants but anyone dare stand up to them and it's "the destruction of civil society".
<---this guy didn't vote for Trump.
Just made excuse after excuse for his policies and rhetoric. Totally different.
I prefer to buy from miniature manufacturers that *don't* support the overthrow of democracy.
Also, Giffords was shot by a nutcase... not a partisan.
Ah yes, the trusty No True Scotsman.
When it is "Them", it is a partisan that demonstrates that the entire opposing ideology is toxic.
When it is "Us", it is a poor lone nutcase (probably a victim of "Their" evil failing health-care schemes).
C´mon, Whembly.......
No... There is literally and never was any evidence that the Gabby shooter was inspired by the “crosshairs” map put out by Sarah PAC.
What are you talking about?
That is a ridiculously narrow standard to invent to determine whether Gabrielle Giffords' attacker was politically motivated.
Because I'm literally telling you that the example you proffered in support of your assertion is misplaced. But, hey, s'not your fault as the NYT forgot their own writers disputed this smear as well...
Did you even read my post!?!?!
It is a ridiculous standard to begin with, and you just keep on pushing it.
-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
Also, Giffords was shot by a nutcase... not a partisan.
Ah yes, the trusty No True Scotsman.
When it is "Them", it is a partisan that demonstrates that the entire opposing ideology is toxic.
When it is "Us", it is a poor lone nutcase (probably a victim of "Their" evil failing health-care schemes).
C´mon, Whembly.......
No... There is literally and never was any evidence that the Gabby shooter was inspired by the “crosshairs” map put out by Sarah PAC.
What are you talking about?
That is a ridiculously narrow standard to invent to determine whether Gabrielle Giffords' attacker was politically motivated.
Because I'm literally telling you that the example you proffered in support of your assertion is misplaced. But, hey, s'not your fault as the NYT forgot their own writers disputed this smear as well...
Also, Giffords was shot by a nutcase... not a partisan.
Ah yes, the trusty No True Scotsman.
When it is "Them", it is a partisan that demonstrates that the entire opposing ideology is toxic.
When it is "Us", it is a poor lone nutcase (probably a victim of "Their" evil failing health-care schemes).
C´mon, Whembly.......
No... There is literally and never was any evidence that the Gabby shooter was inspired by the “crosshairs” map put out by Sarah PAC.
Because that is definitely NOT the kind of rhetoric that gets people hurt. Neither is the mainstream conservative news network routinely calling Obama a Kenyan born muslim with a deep seated hatred of white people. I get it. Political discourse sucks, this very topic is testament to that. But seriously, republicans elected a guy who based his entire campaign on inflammatory rhetoric. Now its a bridge too far?
<---this guy didn't vote for Trump.
The way to deal with bad actors from #TheResistance, Antifa and poltiicians like Maxine Waters advocacy is to shine a light on them. Call them out at every opportunity. I would go even further, from a political standpoint, is to ask every Democrat official you can whether they agree with Maxime that cabinet members should be harassed in public.
I mean, if poeple are determined to “punch back twice as hard”, as a former POTUS opined, then they're using the actions of a few crazies on the other side to justify bad behavior that they'd want to engage in anyway. The people who carry out Maxine Waters’s exhortations are scum. The people who use those exhortations as an excuse aren’t much better either.
It's out job to point this out if for nothing else, ensures a civil society. Because, if we don't... as frazzled mentions... we're one step closer to chaos.
[/spoiler]
Do you support the GOP? Because if you support the GOP it is the party of Trump at the moment
I support *some* GOPers and yes, thank you for reminding me that it's the "party of Trump"... I didn't know that.
Do/does your federal representative for the house and senators support trump and did you and would you vote for them.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I'm not happy with Waters' statement nor the idea behind it. Harassing people because of their political position is a problem, not a solution.
This administration has strayed a bit far from 'political positions' in my opinion due to the constant lying, racism, and corruption. I wouldn't support this for the Bush administration (either of them). But the Trump administration sure. This is a matter of common decency, not politics.
Common decency would say we don't harass people. And even from a strictly pragmatic perspective this isn't going to help.
Vaktathi wrote: While I dont agree with Waters' statement, if thats the hill we're gonna choose to die on over common decency, well, I feel comfortable stating that we should probably be aiming elsewhere.
These are public officials leading public lives driving public policy in positions of wealth and power, who ran on a platform of "feth your feelings", and have been caustic, divisive, belligerent, insulting and offensive, and intentionally so, for the last several years since Trump started his campaign and have only kicked it into higher gear since entering office, and who are currently pushing policies that not too long ago would have been thought impossible in the US by common standards of decency.
So, while I dont condone people going out and harrassing others, if we're complain about common decency, that's a hard pill to swallow in this case.
I agree with NinthMusketeer. This is heading nowhere good. I don't think partisan politics becoming even more weaponized is going to help anything. I agree with everyone that the Trump administration is rather terrible at their job from an objective viewpoint but these are public government employees, there's already a process to send feedback to them when we're unhappy with their job performance. Physically stalking and harassing government officials in the hopes of intimidating them to the point where they change policy positions isn't a good way to govern a nation or uphold civic responsibilities. It's just circumventing the system of representative democracy in favor of mob rule and a might makes right mentality.
This is an extremely dangerous slippery slope because it encourages direct physical confrontations to resolve political disagreements or effect govt policy changes. If we as a society are going to decide that physical intimidation is an acceptable form of political discourse then we're not going to be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube. We're not going to have some kind of gentleman's agreement that stalking and harassing govt officials is only acceptable if the conduct of said officials meets certain requirements or checks off enough boxes on an agreed upon checklist. What's going to happen is that people are going to decide that as long as their subjective opinion of a politician/official is low enough that they are justified in harassing, intimidating and disrupting the personal life of said politician/official is not only acceptable but also noble and laudable behavior. An eye for an eye leaves the world blind. We really don't need to escalate confrontational behavior to the point where every person in the Trump administration really does need insane Scott Pruitt levels of security details.
"civil society" while we have a pres. making excuses for neo-Nazis murdering people. It would be a laugh if it wasn't so serious.
But it's all the same hypocrisy, then as now - the right can be as violent as it wants but anyone dare stand up to them and it's "the destruction of civil society".
<---this guy didn't vote for Trump.
Just made excuse after excuse for his policies and rhetoric. Totally different.
Partly right.
I've always stated Trump doesn't have the temperament to be POTUS, so I don't excuse that.
So...okay. A politician being murdered by a random member of the public always, always, always has a political dimension.
The absolute scumbag who shot that republican politician is a piece of crap. And I will freely admit, I did forget about that incident. That is an example of how I am biased and likely to remember information that agrees with my views and forget information that is embarrassing to "my tribe". But that is something that ALL OF US are impacted by.
Now, if we look at the numbers of killings in the US by Right Wing vs. Left Wing motivated terrorism, what do we see? I am very sorry but the numbers clearly show that right wing terrorists kill far more people than left wing terrorists, more in fact than even Islamic terrorists.
I am not saying this to say that you, or Fraz or anyone else on this site is a terrorist. I am saying it because you are vulnerable to the same bias I am in forgetting this stat conveniently or trying to find info to debunk it, because you want to cheer for your team.
If I think of Europe, the one of the most devastating terrorist attack in recent memory was perpetrated by a right wing extremist against the youth wing of a socialist political party. Remember Anders Brevik? He killed 77 politically interested young people.
Bataclan and Nice killed more people, but Brevik is right up there and his attack was targetted directly at left wing activists whereas Bataclan and Nice were totally indiscriminate.
So forgive me if I look askance and the posts you are making here.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I'm not happy with Waters' statement nor the idea behind it. Harassing people because of their political position is a problem, not a solution.
This administration has strayed a bit far from 'political positions' in my opinion due to the constant lying, racism, and corruption. I wouldn't support this for the Bush administration (either of them). But the Trump administration sure. This is a matter of common decency, not politics.
Common decency would say we don't harass people. And even from a strictly pragmatic perspective this isn't going to help.
Vaktathi wrote: While I dont agree with Waters' statement, if thats the hill we're gonna choose to die on over common decency, well, I feel comfortable stating that we should probably be aiming elsewhere.
These are public officials leading public lives driving public policy in positions of wealth and power, who ran on a platform of "feth your feelings", and have been caustic, divisive, belligerent, insulting and offensive, and intentionally so, for the last several years since Trump started his campaign and have only kicked it into higher gear since entering office, and who are currently pushing policies that not too long ago would have been thought impossible in the US by common standards of decency.
So, while I dont condone people going out and harrassing others, if we're complain about common decency, that's a hard pill to swallow in this case.
I agree with NinthMusketeer. This is heading nowhere good. I don't think partisan politics becoming even more weaponized is going to help anything. I agree with everyone that the Trump administration is rather terrible at their job from an objective viewpoint but these are public government employees, there's already a process to send feedback to them when we're unhappy with their job performance. Physically stalking and harassing government officials in the hopes of intimidating them to the point where they change policy positions isn't a good way to govern a nation or uphold civic responsibilities. It's just circumventing the system of representative democracy in favor of mob rule and a might makes right mentality.
This is an extremely dangerous slippery slope because it encourages direct physical confrontations to resolve political disagreements or effect govt policy changes. If we as a society are going to decide that physical intimidation is an acceptable form of political discourse then we're not going to be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube. We're not going to have some kind of gentleman's agreement that stalking and harassing govt officials is only acceptable if the conduct of said officials meets certain requirements or checks off enough boxes on an agreed upon checklist. What's going to happen is that people are going to decide that as long as their subjective opinion of a politician/official is low enough that they are justified in harassing, intimidating and disrupting the personal life of said politician/official is not only acceptable but also noble and laudable behavior. An eye for an eye leaves the world blind. We really don't need to escalate confrontational behavior to the point where every person in the Trump administration really does need insane Scott Pruitt levels of security details.
I am terribly sorry, but where were you when Trump was inciting violence at his rallies? What we have right now is people being asked to leave restaurants or receiving criticism from members of the public. I too am concerned with the level of discourse in America, but please do not pretend it started happening with Sarah Huckabee Sanders being asked to leave a restaurant.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/25 19:06:06
Except of course, the information we have about him was that he was not a Republican / conservative.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Da Boss wrote: So...okay. A politician being murdered by a random member of the public always, always, always has a political dimension.
The absolute scumbag who shot that republican politician is a piece of crap. And I will freely admit, I did forget about that incident. That is an example of how I am biased and likely to remember information that agrees with my views and forget information that is embarrassing to "my tribe". But that is something that ALL OF US are impacted by.
Now, if we look at the numbers of killings in the US by Right Wing vs. Left Wing motivated terrorism, what do we see? I am very sorry but the numbers clearly show that right wing terrorists kill far more people than left wing terrorists, more in fact than even Islamic terrorists.
I am not saying this to say that you, or Fraz or anyone else on this site is a terrorist. I am saying it because you are vulnerable to the same bias I am in forgetting this stat conveniently or trying to find info to debunk it, because you want to cheer for your team.
If I think of Europe, the one of the most devastating terrorist attack in recent memory was perpetrated by a right wing extremist against the youth wing of a socialist political party. Remember Anders Brevik? He killed 77 politically interested young people.
Bataclan and Nice killed more people, but Brevik is right up there and his attack was targetted directly at left wing activists whereas Bataclan and Nice were totally indiscriminate.
So forgive me if I look askance and the posts you are making here.
Hey... I agree with you here. Thank you for doing this.
My only quibble is that I think when you label "right wing" vs "left wing" from your (looks at your flag) European views, that doesn't translate to American "right wing" vs "left wing". So, I think thats where much of the friction is occurring in these types of debates. I mean, I still don't know what a European liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, Arsenal*, etc... group and how itequates to American politics.
Spoiler:
*
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/25 19:09:18
It's out job to point this out if for nothing else, ensures a civil society. Because, if we don't... as frazzled mentions... we're one step closer to chaos.
I get what you are saying, and I agree to a certain extent, but where the heck was your civil society during Obamas 8 years of total conservative bullgak? It is a continuation of a problem that has always existed to some degree in politics but the conservative response to Barry O pushed this crap right out of the seedy fringes and into the mainstream of public discourse. Does anyone remember the Glenn Beck nazi board? I am sure it's been mentioned but we have a president that encouraged people to respond violently on the campaign trail and offered to pay the legal bills(lol). Getting upset about this NOW is what people here have a problem with. It all sucks and this country is doomed because politics and policy has become a team sport not subject to thoughtful discourse nor governed by facts but by feels(thanks newt G) and I hate sports.
you can do better than that. the Giffords assassin:
In January 2012, Loughner was found by a federal judge to be incompetent to stand trial based on two medical evaluations, which diagnosed him with paranoid schizophrenia.[11] Judged still incompetent to stand trial on May 25, finally on August 7, Loughner had a hearing at which he was judged competent. He pleaded guilty to 19 counts, and in November 2012 was sentenced to life in prison.
If you want to play the political game, MLK's assassin, or Sirhan Sirhan is much more in line.
You think I was trying to play the political game?!?! [/quotes]
As the wife would say, calm your ti....
I meant politically motivated attacks.
I would add the piece of gak racist that killed the church members in the South Carolina church.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Except of course, the information we have about him was that he was not a Republican / conservative.
Frazz he wasn't a anything. Just that, for whatever reason, he was infatuated with Gabby. I mean, it's common when both sides flippantly says, "that guy is crazy"... but Gabby's shooter is literally, clinically crazy. Not a rational "Thanos" crazy.
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I am terribly sorry, but where were you when Trump was inciting violence at his rallies? .
I was thinking that he was going to be obliterated electorally. I was certainly wrong on that front. But I also come from a time where a politician from NYC would have garnered exactly 0 votes south of the Mason Dixon line.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/25 19:16:47
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
It's out job to point this out if for nothing else, ensures a civil society. Because, if we don't... as frazzled mentions... we're one step closer to chaos.
I get what you are saying, and I agree to a certain extent, but where the heck was your civil society during Obamas 8 years of total conservative bullgak? It is a continuation of a problem that has always existed to some degree in politics but the conservative response to Barry O pushed this crap right out of the seedy fringes and into the mainstream of public discourse. Does anyone remember the Glenn Beck nazi board? I am sure it's been mentioned but we have a president that encouraged people to respond violently on the campaign trail and offered to pay the legal bills(lol). Getting upset about this NOW is what people here have a problem with. It all sucks and this country is doomed because politics and policy has become a team sport not subject to thoughtful discourse nor governed by facts but by feels(thanks newt G) and I hate sports.
Dude... the "opposition" to the Obama years were done mainly in the Political Sphere. There wasn't this level of outrage...
Unless I'm totally missing the riots happening shortly after Obama's election?
I am terribly sorry, but where were you when Trump was inciting violence at his rallies? .
I was thinking that he was going to be obliterated electorally. I was certainly wrong on that front. But I also come from a time where a politician from NYC would have garnered exactly 0 votes south of the Mason Dixon line.
Same.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/25 19:17:01
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