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 Ustrello wrote:

Until he decided to sit down with Putin with no aides

"I did what you asked, Vladimir, now about expediting those permits for Trump's Golden Palace Moscow?'

The guy who covered up Fox New's culture of sexual harassment as long as he could has now been selected as the 5th communication director in 17 months, because that is how things are now.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

Until he decided to sit down with Putin with no aides

"I did what you asked, Vladimir, now about expediting those permits for Trump's Golden Palace Moscow?'

Adding to your list of crimes officially accused of "disrespecting the sultan of swing"..just so you know.

 thekingofkings wrote:


Adding to your list of crimes officially accused of "disrespecting the sultan of swing"..just so you know.

?????????

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:


Adding to your list of crimes officially accused of "disrespecting the sultan of swing"..just so you know.

?????????

you have disagreed with me and/or whembly at least 1 time in this thread, sooo...accusation stands, should add it to your signature list.

 thekingofkings wrote:

you have disagreed with me and/or whembly at least 1 time in this thread, sooo...accusation stands, should add it to your signature list.

But neither of you are the sultan of swing. You would have to play creole after all.



In other news, for those who wonder why Mueller takes so long.....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mueller-taps-more-career-prosecutors-080002696.html

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:

you have disagreed with me and/or whembly at least 1 time in this thread, sooo...accusation stands, should add it to your signature list.

But neither of you are the sultan of swing. You would have to play creole after all.



In other news, for those who wonder why Mueller takes so long.....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mueller-taps-more-career-prosecutors-080002696.html

Always a catch, one day I will learn, but I can can play the honky tonk like anything!.............. Does it really help to "get" Trump but leave Pence in office?? really he would likely simply pardon Trump as soon as he takes the oath, I see this as a either get em both or get nothing.

 d-usa wrote:
I can honestly see where Obama doing anything would have just resulted in people claiming that he is finally undoing democracy by interfering with democracy to deny Trump his win, appoint Hillary as his Medvedev, and be a Putin style puppet master.

He quietly started up an investigation, which is really all he could do. I remember him saying that they didn't make anything public due to fears of undermining Americans' faith in the electoral system, going out of his way to specifically state Trump constantly talking about how the system was rigged as a concern.

 CptJake wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Are any of you under the belief the Russians/Soviets have not been interfering in our elections for decades (with various amounts of success/failure)?

Any of you read up on Venona?

Does that excuse how widespread and blatant this interference was? Did Venona use social media in new ways to target certain demographics? Is this another "wake up sheeple" post?

It is a 'read history' post. Clearly you don't even know what Venona was.

Russia/Soviet Union has been messing with our govt for generations. To be sure, it has been reciprocal. Have they updated the 'how' they go about it? Yes. But has the scale or efficiency really been increased? Frankly, we do not know.

Go back and read the article in the PDF I linked to, it goes into detail about some of the methods used in the 2016 election.

As for excusing the 'widespread and blatant interference', what would you of had Obama do about it? Should he have taken us to war over it? What options do you think he should have exercised?

What he did. Start an investigation.

As far as scale and efficiency. We can determine for sure the scale has increased just based on technology used. Many more people can be reached via social media. We can determine the efficiency very easy because it is way more efficient to create an ad and reach millions and millions of people.

I could read about venona and think to myself "Yeah, this is similar!" But that would be false, because there are new tools now. Specifically, we have the internet and 24 hour news cycles now.

https://twitter.com/JudyWoodruff/status/1014998271532597248

14 month old boy separated from immigrant parents at the border, was returned after 85 days, covered with lice, had apparently not been bathed - part of lawsuits filed by states against Trump administration @LisaDNews reports @NewsHour tonight

uh huh.

cannot believe a child wasn't bathed for 3 months or so .

.. right ?

On that topic, they have to do DNA tests now to reunite families. They say to speed up the process, but you just know they messed up the paperwork in cases and have to resort to this now.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44731119

In other racism...

https://apnews.com/amp/38334c4d061e493fb108bd975b5a1a5d?__twitter_impression=true

Sorry, you're prepared to risk your life to serve this country, but you're a bit brown, so piss off.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
On that topic, they have to do DNA tests now to reunite families. They say to speed up the process, but you just know they messed up the paperwork in cases and have to resort to this now.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44731119

You got that right. That's criminal level incompetence.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
On that topic, they have to do DNA tests now to reunite families. They say to speed up the process, but you just know they messed up the paperwork in cases and have to resort to this now.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44731119

You got that right. That's criminal level incompetence.

Yes, yes it is. Sigh.

Well, for those that insist only illegals are being detained, the Honorable Judge James E. Boasberg has ruled and found, well....


https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/immigrants-rights-and-detention/judge-blocks-blanket-detention-asylum-seekers


So, when Trump talks about not wanting Judges involved in the deportation of immigrants, think of those thousand people who were found to be here legally and detained in violation of the 'rules' in this single case alone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:


You got that right. That's criminal level incompetence.

Yeah, the judge that ordered the kids to be returned found that the Federal government could not show in court that they had even bothered to make 'the barest effort' to track these kids, even to the degree that they'd track a stolen car or other seized property.


This is probably why DHS has been pushing NARA to destroy the records ASAP, as this screams 'future lawsuits against the US Government'

Crispy78 wrote:
In other racism...

https://apnews.com/amp/38334c4d061e493fb108bd975b5a1a5d?__twitter_impression=true

More like:

In other unfeeling bureaucracy...

Article seemed like an anecdotal puff piece. "Quitely discharging"? Really? Painting the story to be some malicious conspiracy right out of the gate. Everyone except the highest ranking generals/enlisted or genuine war heroes are "quietly discharged". What, are they supposed to have full court press conference whenever they let folks go for whatever myriad reason?

Crispy78 wrote:
Sorry, you're prepared to risk your life to serve this country, but you're a bit brown, so piss off.

I went through basic training with white folks who were born and raised in the USA and were kicked out or cycled back during training and a few were held in separate barracks after graduating basic and moving onto AIT(more advanced job skill training) because of background check irregularities. Even AIT, which was 24 weeks for my MOS(job skill), I saw naturalized citizens and "regular" citizens alike go through the entirety of the training and were reclassed to a different MOS because of failure to pass the requisite security clearances.

The article states that around 40 have been released. They then go on to mention 5000 are currently enrolled and 10000 currently serving. Isn't that like less than 1%? Seems about normal, maybe even on the low side for background check rejections. Not seeing the racism angle, myself.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Benghazi? The investigation where huge numbers of the population thought she would be found guilty but she was cleared of all wrong doing?

That Benghazi?

Over, and over, and over again....

How many investigations?

Over how long?

Yet spending a year on Trump is taking too long?

But, hey, we are talking Republicans here - if you repeat lies often enough, the become alternative facts, right?

The Auld Grump - even if Trump is innocent, he sure is acting like he's guilty.... His lawyer should have told him by now - sit down, shut up, and tell the truth when you need to talk at all. And keep your teeny tiny fingers away from Twitter, you idiot!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

Until he decided to sit down with Putin with no aides

"I did what you asked, Vladimir, now about expediting those permits for Trump's Golden Palace Moscow?'

[Incredibly Rude Joke That Made My Wife Laugh, BUT Is Unsuitable For Civilized Society Goes HERE]

The Auld Grump

 nels1031 wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
In other racism...

https://apnews.com/amp/38334c4d061e493fb108bd975b5a1a5d?__twitter_impression=true

More like:

In other unfeeling bureaucracy...

Article seemed like an anecdotal puff piece. "Quitely discharging"? Really? Painting the story to be some malicious conspiracy right out of the gate. Everyone except the highest ranking generals/enlisted or genuine war heroes are "quietly discharged". What, are they supposed to have full court press conference whenever they let folks go for whatever myriad reason?

Crispy78 wrote:
Sorry, you're prepared to risk your life to serve this country, but you're a bit brown, so piss off.

I went through basic training with white folks who were born and raised in the USA and were kicked out or cycled back during training and a few were held in separate barracks after graduating basic and moving onto AIT(more advanced job skill training) because of background check irregularities. Even AIT, which was 24 weeks for my MOS(job skill), I saw naturalized citizens go through the entirety of the training and were reclassed to a different MOS because of failure to pass the requisite security clearances.

The article states that around 40 have been released. They then go on to mention 5000 are currently enrolled and 10000 currently serving. Isn't that like less than 1%? Seems about normal, maybe even on the low side for background check rejections. Not seeing the racism angle, myself.

You see the angle - it's just not in the article. It's ITT.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
Benghazi? The investigation where huge numbers of the population thought she would be found guilty but she was cleared of all wrong doing?

That Benghazi?

Over, and over, and over again....

How many investigations?

Over how long?

Yet spending a year on Trump is taking too long?

But, hey, we are talking Republicans here - if you repeat lies often enough, the become alternative facts, right?

The Auld Grump - even if Trump is innocent, he sure is acting like he's guilty.... His lawyer should have told him by now - sit down, shut up, and tell the truth when you need to talk at all. And keep your teeny tiny fingers away from Twitter, you idiot!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

Until he decided to sit down with Putin with no aides

"I did what you asked, Vladimir, now about expediting those permits for Trump's Golden Palace Moscow?'

[Incredibly Rude Joke That Made My Wife Laugh, BUT Is Unsuitable For Civilized Society Goes HERE]

The Auld Grump

What alternate facts? We've all seen the reports and interviews. Mistakes that have no excuse for being made cost the lives of an American Ambassador and 4 American defense contractors. Hillary was absolutely involved in the chain of ignoring obvious threats of impending violence and the cluster feth of non response that could have saved American lives. We don't need any more investigations. We know the negligence that occurred - we also know that after the fact - the administration lied to the American people with a BS story to make the event seem random to cover their own butts. What about that is alternate fact? Please explain.

 Xenomancers wrote:

What alternate facts? We've all seen the reports and interviews. Mistakes that have no excuse for being made cost the lives of an American Ambassador and 4 American defense contractors. Hillary was absolutely involved in the chain of ignoring obvious threats of impending violence and the cluster feth of non response that could have saved American lives. We don't need any more investigations. We know the negligence that occurred - we also know that after the fact - the administration lied to the American people with a BS story to make the event seem random to cover their own butts. What about that is alternate fact? Please explain.

And yet, if you had read the Final Report, the one issued by the committee led by Republican Trey Gowdy, reviewing the incident for the *eighth* time, you'd know that it found no evidence of culpability or wrongdoing by Hillary Clinton in relation to the 2012 attack.

I have never felt so seperated from my fellow Americans than I do right now. Sometimes, it feels like I live on Mars and they live on Venus.

The fact that none of what you said is actually true, Xenomancers, makes it alternate facts.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
The fact that none of what you said is actually true, Xenomancers, makes it alternate facts.

Alternate truth?

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

What alternate facts? We've all seen the reports and interviews. Mistakes that have no excuse for being made cost the lives of an American Ambassador and 4 American defense contractors. Hillary was absolutely involved in the chain of ignoring obvious threats of impending violence and the cluster feth of non response that could have saved American lives. We don't need any more investigations. We know the negligence that occurred - we also know that after the fact - the administration lied to the American people with a BS story to make the event seem random to cover their own butts. What about that is alternate fact? Please explain.

And yet, if you had read the Final Report, the one issued by the committee led by Republican Trey Gowdy, reviewing the incident for the *eighth* time, you'd know that it found no evidence of culpability or wrongdoing by Hillary Clinton in relation to the 2012 attack.

That's downright incorrect. There is absolutely culpability here "I didn't know" is not an excuse. When you are in charge of a department and it gaks up because you didn't know something that you should have - that is your fault. That is not even what Gowdy said - He said he wasn't going to assign culpability because their was plenty to go around. Also - people lie to protect their superiors. This is common practice. Everywhere. You can expect that every bit as much in the trump organization I assure you.

 feeder wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:
The fact that none of what you said is actually true, Xenomancers, makes it alternate facts.

Alternate truth?

Polite lies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

That's downright incorrect. There is absolutely culpability here "I didn't know" is not an excuse. When you are in charge of a department and it gaks up because you didn't know something that you should have - that is your fault.

By this standard, most of the Trump administration should be hanged forthwith. Their universal answer when they're forced to take the stand and testify is 'I don't know' 'I don't recall' 'I had no knowledge of that'. If, indeed, they're culpable anyway, then why is there a single living soul working in the white house?

Not going to get into my personal hatred for Sean Smith, aka Vile Rat.

 nels1031 wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
In other racism...

https://apnews.com/amp/38334c4d061e493fb108bd975b5a1a5d?__twitter_impression=true

More like:

In other unfeeling bureaucracy...

Article seemed like an anecdotal puff piece. "Quitely discharging"? Really? Painting the story to be some malicious conspiracy right out of the gate. Everyone except the highest ranking generals/enlisted or genuine war heroes are "quietly discharged". What, are they supposed to have full court press conference whenever they let folks go for whatever myriad reason?

Crispy78 wrote:
Sorry, you're prepared to risk your life to serve this country, but you're a bit brown, so piss off.

I went through basic training with white folks who were born and raised in the USA and were kicked out or cycled back during training and a few were held in separate barracks after graduating basic and moving onto AIT(more advanced job skill training) because of background check irregularities. Even AIT, which was 24 weeks for my MOS(job skill), I saw naturalized citizens and "regular" citizens alike go through the entirety of the training and were reclassed to a different MOS because of failure to pass the requisite security clearances.

The article states that around 40 have been released. They then go on to mention 5000 are currently enrolled and 10000 currently serving. Isn't that like less than 1%? Seems about normal, maybe even on the low side for background check rejections. Not seeing the racism angle, myself.

What I got from the article is that the agencies wouldn't run background checks so they got discharged. Wonder why they didn't even bother to try...

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

What alternate facts? We've all seen the reports and interviews. Mistakes that have no excuse for being made cost the lives of an American Ambassador and 4 American defense contractors. Hillary was absolutely involved in the chain of ignoring obvious threats of impending violence and the cluster feth of non response that could have saved American lives. We don't need any more investigations. We know the negligence that occurred - we also know that after the fact - the administration lied to the American people with a BS story to make the event seem random to cover their own butts. What about that is alternate fact? Please explain.

And yet, if you had read the Final Report, the one issued by the committee led by Republican Trey Gowdy, reviewing the incident for the *eighth* time, you'd know that it found no evidence of culpability or wrongdoing by Hillary Clinton in relation to the 2012 attack.

That's downright incorrect.

There is absolutely culpability here "I didn't know" is not an excuse. When you are in charge of a department and it gaks up because you didn't know something that you should have - that is your fault.

By this standard, Hillary Clinton is but one among a very large cast, and several degrees of separation removed from the direct events at the embassy itself. The intense focus on Hillary Clinton above and beyond anything or anyone else has only one purpose, politics. Does the State Department, under her tenure, deserve some criticism? Yes. Was there shady behavior? Yes. Were there failures? Yes. Were these grand strategic failures of top leadership? Not really. Was Bengazi a direct result of Hillary Clinton's personal ineptitude? No.

That is not even what Gowdy said - He said he wasn't going to assign culpability because their was plenty to go around.

As in, there was nothing to pin directly on anyone, it was a complex series of failures across a spectrum of different groups. So why the hell are we still so obsessed with Hillary specifically here?

Also - people lie to protect their superiors. This is common practice. Everywhere. You can expect that every bit as much in the trump organization I assure you.

I don't doubt that in the slightest.

However, If we've gone 'round this thing *EIGHT* times and we're still trying to pin the tail on the donkey, well, "quixotic" seems more than appropriate.

 nels1031 wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
In other racism...

https://apnews.com/amp/38334c4d061e493fb108bd975b5a1a5d?__twitter_impression=true

More like:

In other unfeeling bureaucracy...

Article seemed like an anecdotal puff piece. "Quitely discharging"? Really? Painting the story to be some malicious conspiracy right out of the gate. Everyone except the highest ranking generals/enlisted or genuine war heroes are "quietly discharged". What, are they supposed to have full court press conference whenever they let folks go for whatever myriad reason?

Crispy78 wrote:
Sorry, you're prepared to risk your life to serve this country, but you're a bit brown, so piss off.

I went through basic training with white folks who were born and raised in the USA and were kicked out or cycled back during training and a few were held in separate barracks after graduating basic and moving onto AIT(more advanced job skill training) because of background check irregularities. Even AIT, which was 24 weeks for my MOS(job skill), I saw naturalized citizens and "regular" citizens alike go through the entirety of the training and were reclassed to a different MOS because of failure to pass the requisite security clearances.

The article states that around 40 have been released. They then go on to mention 5000 are currently enrolled and 10000 currently serving. Isn't that like less than 1%? Seems about normal, maybe even on the low side for background check rejections. Not seeing the racism angle, myself.

I read that article and got a distinct sense of 'left wing making a big deal out of something to make the current administration look bad'. That may not be the case but I don't feel there's enough evidence to make that call. As you said, 40 people in context of the whole isn't a trend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

What alternate facts? We've all seen the reports and interviews. Mistakes that have no excuse for being made cost the lives of an American Ambassador and 4 American defense contractors. Hillary was absolutely involved in the chain of ignoring obvious threats of impending violence and the cluster feth of non response that could have saved American lives. We don't need any more investigations. We know the negligence that occurred - we also know that after the fact - the administration lied to the American people with a BS story to make the event seem random to cover their own butts. What about that is alternate fact? Please explain.

And yet, if you had read the Final Report, the one issued by the committee led by Republican Trey Gowdy, reviewing the incident for the *eighth* time, you'd know that it found no evidence of culpability or wrongdoing by Hillary Clinton in relation to the 2012 attack.

That's downright incorrect.

There is absolutely culpability here "I didn't know" is not an excuse. When you are in charge of a department and it gaks up because you didn't know something that you should have - that is your fault.

By this standard, Hillary Clinton is but one among a very large cast, and several degrees of separation removed from the direct events at the embassy itself. The intense focus on Hillary Clinton above and beyond anything or anyone else has only one purpose, politics. Does the State Department, under her tenure, deserve some criticism? Yes. Was there shady behavior? Yes. Were there failures? Yes. Were these grand strategic failures of top leadership? Not really. Was Bengazi a direct result of Hillary Clinton's personal ineptitude? No.

That is not even what Gowdy said - He said he wasn't going to assign culpability because their was plenty to go around.

As in, there was nothing to pin directly on anyone, it was a complex series of failures across a spectrum of different groups. So why the hell are we still so obsessed with Hillary specifically here?

Also - people lie to protect their superiors. This is common practice. Everywhere. You can expect that every bit as much in the trump organization I assure you.

I don't doubt that in the slightest.

However, If we've gone 'round this thing *EIGHT* times and we're still trying to pin the tail on the donkey, well, "quixotic" seems more than appropriate.

Guys, we should be adding Xeno to the ignore list of 'unwilling to argue in good faith'. It isn't productive to the discussion to respond to long-disproven falsehoods. Is Benghazi really adding anything of substance to the thread?

Wonder if my friends Soldier was one of these. A part of the 82nd, twice refused to jump, getting discharged and sent home to the Dominican Republic.

But that's racism now a days I guess.

 Easy E wrote:
I have never felt so seperated from my fellow Americans than I do right now. Sometimes, it feels like I live on Mars and they live on Venus.

That is very true in a sense; understand that the main block of Republican voters believe and act in a version of the country that does not exist. I don't mean this in a rule 1-violating insult fashion; that is literally true.

 Easy E wrote:
I have never felt so seperated from my fellow Americans than I do right now. Sometimes, it feels like I live on Mars and they live on Venus.

Don't get too discouraged, this is just life in the age of the Internet. We have more connectivity than ever so we encounter more people than we otherwise would have. There are over 300 million people in the US and until very recently you'd really only interact with your local social and work networks and your family. While fundamentally we're all more similar than different there are plenty of variances superficially with viewpoints, biases and experiences. As they say ignorance is bliss, so with more information and more exposure to other people you find that there are a lot of people that don't agree with your own attitudes and world view. That's ok because there's still plenty that do and diversity of opinion isn't a bad thing. We're in a time where you can receive a constant stream of negativity and anxiety inducing news from the media and it it's not healthy. There's also plenty of good things/good people happening in the world every day and for the most part things are going fine. I'm not advocating burying our heads in the sand and pretending that everything is awesome but a shift in perspective can be healthy. There are plenty of improvements we need to make and injustices we need to correct but the majority of the people out there are good people that you'd likely get along with just fine who are living each day as best they can.