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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 17:31:48
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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reds8n wrote: AdeptSister wrote:Is anyone else confused by this logic?:
A portion of Democrats voted for Bernie the "socialist" = Democrats are socialist. (Never mind he lost the primary and did better in states where you did not have to be democrat to vote in the primary.)
The majority of Republicans vote for Trump...but he is NOT representative of the Republican party?
Don't forget the actual nazi ideology supporting Republicans running/standing as well.
Yeah... Especially when they don't decry it or when their president calls them good people
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 17:46:55
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Iron_Captain wrote: Xenomancers wrote: Iron_Captain wrote: Xenomancers wrote: A Town Called Malus wrote: Xenomancers wrote:
Also - I am not sure why they have facism as a far right concept because it is not. The scale works basically by how much influence you want government to have over your day to day life - Fascism is complete government control - it is a far left concept. The way it works out is - it's basically communism with a evil dictator.
And with this it was aptly demonstrated how little you actually know about the topic you are trying to argue.
Do we really need to go over how the Nazi's and Italian fascists banned and/or murdered all the left-wing parties, such as the communists and social democrats, when they came to power?
They destroyed all their political opponents. That is what complete government control is. The same thing happens in communism - because facism and communism are basically the same thing.
That is not true. Neither of the three statements you make here is. Go read a history book. Or Wikipedia if you don't have those.
1. The Nazis did not kill or destroy all of their political opponents. They only specifically targeted communists for extermination, but conservatives and liberals were left mostly unmolested unless they got too vocal in opposing Nazism.
2. A government does not need to destroy all its opponents to achieve total control. Rendering those opponents harmless, of even better, controlling them, is often far more effective than simply destroying them.
3. There is nothing even remotely similar in fascism and communism. They are polar opposites on the extreme ends of the left-right spectrum, there are literally no more different ideologies in the world. Communism looks to the future, is anti-authoritarian (they aim to eventually abolish the state) and is internationalist (they focus on class instead of ethnicity and aim to abolish borders and nations). Fascism looks to the past, is highly authoritarian (they form a cult around a strong leader who personally controls everything) and is nationalist (they view their own ethnicity as superior to all others and aim to strengthen their nation at the cost of others if need be).
Wow - I don't know how you could be more wrong.
Point 1 - yeah - Destroy does not mean kill if we are talking about political power. Seizing complete control is the exact same thing.
Point 2 - This is exactly what my rebuttal to your first statement is.
Point 3 - I think if you can't see the similarities you are willfully blind - or perhaps - lived under communism yourself and have a unique prospective - which isn't actually accurate. I respect your perspective, but it's wrong. Marx in fact - discribes socialism as a tranisition period to full blown communism. Socialism is literally pre- communism.
No, you are wrong, and moving goalposts by trying to stretch the meaning of words won't change that. The verb "to destroy" means to render something non-existent. If you want to destroy a person, you have to kill them. You can't destroy someone without killing them. The Nazis tried to destroy communists. They did not try to destroy conservatives or liberals, who received much more tolerant treatments. This is historical fact that is easily looked up on the internet or in any reputable written history of the period.
If my second point is your rebuttal to your first point, then it is a really bad one, because controlling someone isn't quite the same as destroying someone.
As to the third point, you are right, socialism is the second stage of the road to communism. Both communism and fascism are birthed from capitalism, but this doesn't make communism and fascism even remotely similar. Socialism does share some distant similarities to fascism in that in both systems, the means of production are controlled by the state, but the way those means of production are controlled and to what end is completely different again. Socialist state control is exercised through worker's committees and aims to achieve communism to be free from those disgusting capitalists, fascist state control is exercised through wealthy monopolists and aims to achieve autarky to be free from those disgusting foreigners. Again, socialists ignore ethnicity to focus on class, fascists ignore class to focus on ethnicity. They are both extremes, but literal opposites. They could not be more different.
Xenomancers wrote: Jadenim wrote:
This is a normal distribution. Attributes of any population of sufficient size will generally fall into this pattern. So if you think that only a few people agree with you and lots don’t (particularly if they all disagree in the same way), then the simplest answer is that you are at the edge of the population.. Therefore you hold a minority view and are not representative of the population. It is far less likely that you are in the majority and it just so happens that none of the rest of the majority are bothering to turn up AND only one end of the two minorities is arguing with you.
Did Nazi Germany fall into this pattern? How about Soviet Russia? How about current Russia? When the government controls how you think (through controlling media) - people stop having minority opinions. People stop having opinions at all.
That is hilariously untrue. People never stop having opinions. If a government controls the media, the majority opinion simply shifts to being similar to the opinion of the government. Minority opinions will shift along accordingly. Basically, that graph is always true in any Human society.
I'm not going to argue semantics with you. I can destroy your soul, destroy your will, destroy your joy, Croatia can destroy an opponent in football. None of these things require killing. If you misunderstood my meaning - that is on you. Sometimes people see what they want to see.
In regards to your opinions on communism.
"Socialism does share some distant similarities to fascism in that in both systems, the means of production are controlled by the state" - okay so this is kind of big.
You do point out the major difference though - facism uses racism to maintain power - while socialism uses racism/classism to take power.
Point 2 -
Good to know people always have opinions even if they are shot and killed for expressing them. (see Nazi germany)
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/15 18:01:19
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 18:02:19
Subject: Re:US & NA Politics Thread
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Xenomancers wrote: Jadenim wrote:
This is a normal distribution. Attributes of any population of sufficient size will generally fall into this pattern. So if you think that only a few people agree with you and lots don’t (particularly if they all disagree in the same way), then the simplest answer is that you are at the edge of the population.. Therefore you hold a minority view and are not representative of the population. It is far less likely that you are in the majority and it just so happens that none of the rest of the majority are bothering to turn up AND only one end of the two minorities is arguing with you.
Did Nazi Germany fall into this pattern? How about Soviet Russia? How about current Russia? When the government controls how you think (through controlling media) - people stop having minority opinions. People stop having opinions at all.
You are misunderstanding what this is showing. You can't compare now to back in the 1940's germany. That's not a reasonable assumption because demographics have changed. The mid point is just a representation of the most common result of a specific sample and demonstrates that 68% of the population fall within the 'peak' of the distribution. Depending on the size of your population you can still have a sizeable number of people in the wings. If you sample a different population (say 1940's Germany then your mid point would be different) and hence different views would be more or less common. The difficulty I have with using this type of simple statistical approach is that social views can't be packaged neatly in this way and hence depending on the questions you ask can get slightly different mid points, but sufficient enough to make the wings more or less likely for certain points of view.
There is also the argument that the political spectrum is a circle rather than a straight line as a lot of this discussion seems to be based off (you are either left or right). With centralism at the top of the circle and to the left, we have social democracy then socialism. then communism before you hit the bottom of the circle with totalitarism. You then climb up the right side to facism, then liberal economism, then conservatism before you are back at centralism. There is hence a lot more similarities between fascism and communism or social democracy and conservatism than there is between social democracy and facism or communism and conservatism.
It is incorrect though to say being on one side inevitiably leads to another other than being a wheel and saying that any political view can lead to another because it is a circle.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/15 18:02:58
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 18:12:20
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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We just had mid-term primaries across the US in many states, and we are talking about standard distributions!
This is why this thread sucks.
What interesting stuff happened in your local primary?
In mine, T-Paw (Tim Pawlenty) was defeated on the R side. On the D side, a popular AG who was a woman was defeated by a centrist Dem. Keith Ellison (a former Dem congress leader and the first Muslim in Congress) won his primary challenge for MN State AG.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 18:28:19
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 18:33:01
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Sneaky Kommando
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Easy E wrote:We just had mid-term primaries across the US in many states, and we are talking about standard distributions!
This is why this thread sucks.
What interesting stuff happened in your local primary?
In mine, T-Paw (Tim Pawlenty) was defeated on the R side. On the D side, a popular AG who was a woman was defeated by a centrist Dem. Keith Ellison (a former Dem congress leader and the first Muslim in Congress) won his primary challenge for MN State AG.
Well here in Illinois we have Bruce Rauner up for reelection and JB Pritzker running for Governor for the Democrats. Even though JB was caught on an FBI wiretap trying to buy a government seat from Blagojevich and has lowered his property taxes through some rather questionable means https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/billionaire-illinois-governor-hopeful-jb-pritzker-let-mansion-fall-into-disrepair-saved-230000-on-taxes-on-uninhabitable-3-7-million-home-watchdogs-democrat/ he is polling well and will likely win, so nothing out of the ordinary for Illinois.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 18:33:37
Subject: Re:US & NA Politics Thread
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Whirlwind wrote:
There is also the argument that the political spectrum is a circle rather than a straight line as a lot of this discussion seems to be based off (you are either left or right). With centralism at the top of the circle and to the left, we have social democracy then socialism. then communism before you hit the bottom of the circle with totalitarism. You then climb up the right side to facism, then liberal economism, then conservatism before you are back at centralism. There is hence a lot more similarities between fascism and communism or social democracy and conservatism than there is between social democracy and facism or communism and conservatism.
Which is nonsensical if you know things about fascism and communism. This is an idea advocated mainly by people who consider themselves to belong near the centre with the implication that the further away from the centre spot you get, the worse you are.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 18:38:08
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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That state (or rather, northern IL) never ceases to amaze me...
But hey, in MO we got a Nazi donkey-cave on the ticket... so... a wash?
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 18:46:20
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Building a blood in water scent
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Isn't buying a seat illegal? How is this JB guy not inlegal trouble?
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We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 18:49:30
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Sneaky Kommando
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feeder wrote:Isn't buying a seat illegal? How is this JB guy not inlegal trouble?
That is a very good question, probably because his family has more money than god and the political clout that comes with it.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-jb-pritzker-rod-blagojevich-fbi-wiretap-recordings-met-0601-20170531-story.html
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 18:58:30
Subject: Re:US & NA Politics Thread
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Xeno's definition makes absolute monarchy a far-left type of government. Let that sink in for a while.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 19:01:09
Subject: Re:US & NA Politics Thread
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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Trump revokes security clearance of former CIA director John Brennan for the high crimes of criticizing him and not bending the knee
WASHINGTON — President Trump on Wednesday revoked the security clearance of John O. Brennan, the former C.I.A. director under President Barack Obama, citing what he called Mr. Brennan’s “erratic” behavior.
The White House had threatened last month to strip Mr. Brennan and two other Obama administration officials — Susan E. Rice, the former national security adviser; and James R. Clapper Jr., the former director of national intelligence — of their security clearances. At the time, Ms. Sanders said that Mr. Trump was considering doing it because “they politicized, and in some cases monetized, their public service and security clearances.”
Mr. Trump has questioned the loyalties of national security and law enforcement officials and dismissed some of their findings — particularly the conclusion that Moscow intervened in the 2016 election — as attacks against him
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 19:05:18
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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For the love of an uncaring universe, why did I walk back in here?
The circle model is representative of the left/right economic divide, in which resources are pooled for the common good on the left, and in which individuals may achieve great personal wealth on the right.
It also represents the degree of totalitarian control a government has over it's people, with "Free, open elections" on one end and "Dictatorships" on the other.
You could represent this in many ways... a square field or circular field is just aesthetics, really. Hell, an argument might be made for a diamond pattern, or even a triangle if your philosophy is geared a certain way. Not to mention 3 dimensional (+) objects that could correspond with other axis of philosophic parameters.
I prefer a square for my personal considerations, but that's me. Communism and Fascism are both on one end of the spectrum (totalitarianism) but on opposite sides of the left / right axis.
Similarly, US politics seems to be mostly non-totalitarian, but it also tends to be mostly right of centre. It strikes me as odd that there is such vehemence between the two parties. Compared on any kind of scale that includes non-American politics, they're so very close together.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 19:08:00
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Well we need something to fight about so when not fighting others we fight with ourselves. Like orcs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 19:08:29
Subject: Re:US & NA Politics Thread
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Vaktathi wrote:Trump revokes security clearance of former CIA director John Brennan for the high crimes of criticizing him and not bending the knee
WASHINGTON — President Trump on Wednesday revoked the security clearance of John O. Brennan, the former C.I.A. director under President Barack Obama, citing what he called Mr. Brennan’s “erratic” behavior.
The White House had threatened last month to strip Mr. Brennan and two other Obama administration officials — Susan E. Rice, the former national security adviser; and James R. Clapper Jr., the former director of national intelligence — of their security clearances. At the time, Ms. Sanders said that Mr. Trump was considering doing it because “they politicized, and in some cases monetized, their public service and security clearances.”
Mr. Trump has questioned the loyalties of national security and law enforcement officials and dismissed some of their findings — particularly the conclusion that Moscow intervened in the 2016 election — as attacks against him
Big picture... it's just petty.
Historically it is a legitimate courtesy, because officials from previous administrations could be asked by current administration for help, thus not having to re-initialize the security clearance. Anyone wanna guess which previous administration would want to help the Trump administration?
It's also a courtesy "golden parachute" because such security clearance can open up lucrative doors in the private sectors (where the corporation actually "holds/maintains" the security clearance).
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 19:22:33
Subject: Re:US & NA Politics Thread
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It is, but you can't say Brennan wasn't asking for it. He keeps chiming in on Trump. Pick your battles, man.
Unless he doesn't care about the security clearance. And at this point he has nothing else to lose so we'll probably hear more from him. As a political commentator on Anderson Cooper.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 19:32:40
Subject: Re:US & NA Politics Thread
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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AlmightyWalrus wrote:Xeno's definition makes absolute monarchy a far-left type of government. Let that sink in for a while.
A true American once said:
"'That government is best which governs not at all; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have."
-Henry David Thoreau
This is how I view the spectrum.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 19:34:56
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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So every time you vote, you endorse the evil leftist agenda of "having a government".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 19:40:45
Subject: Re:US & NA Politics Thread
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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KTG17 wrote:
It is, but you can't say Brennan wasn't asking for it. He keeps chiming in on Trump. Pick your battles, man.
Unless he doesn't care about the security clearance. And at this point he has nothing else to lose so we'll probably hear more from him. As a political commentator on Anderson Cooper.
Except that commenting on current events and figures, particularly when you are not currently enlisted or commissioned, generally isn't grounds for losing a clearance...
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 19:50:16
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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Don't "dis" his First Amendment rights to spend money as a form of speech!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 19:52:24
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
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Mr Thoreau was describing *ideal* communism, you realize. Communism is the only style of government that seeks to abolish government, trusting to people's innate desire to help one another, at expense of themselves.
Freedom isn't a lack of responsibility. It is embracing that responsibility, and realizing that you are free, so long as you're willing to accept the consequences of your actions.
Thoreau's On Walden Pond is essentially modern asceticism. You know what happened when he needed to go to a hospital, right?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 20:04:57
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Fixture of Dakka
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whembly wrote: AdeptSister wrote:I find the thread to be helpful to get concrete information and a better understanding of certain demographics. While there are some who do not argue in good faith, some actually provide a good counter perspective.
Also, I truly believe that even if there was a Trump "N-word" tape and it was released, it would change nothing. We just need to accept that while the number of people who identify themselves as republicans shrinks, he will always have support and the "true conservatives" will never revolt to try to reclaim their party. Why should they if the get what they want?
I just find it hard to believe that the media would sit on it.
I'd bet a not insignificant amount of cash (and then borrow some more!) that it would be released pronto...and pounded every day.
When they have resorted to mocking Trump for using a tanning bed, I do think there is reasonable doubt as to if this tape exists, and if it did why would they sit on it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 20:19:50
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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It will be interesting to see if Ellis holds onto his AG seat & the DNC position he has.....and for how long...given the DNC has (or at least talked about?) suspending him during the investigation of his alleged domestic violence.
Which I wonder how overblown it is considering his ex gf isn't the one that actually brought it out....it was her snoopy son (invasion of privacy, anybody?). Wonder what he would have thought if he had seen a homemade pr0n of his mom and her fella instead!
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I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends.
Three!! Three successful trades! Ah ah ah!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 20:22:25
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Fixture of Dakka
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A Town Called Malus wrote: Xenomancers wrote:
Also - I am not sure why they have facism as a far right concept because it is not. The scale works basically by how much influence you want government to have over your day to day life - Fascism is complete government control - it is a far left concept. The way it works out is - it's basically communism with a evil dictator.
And with this it was aptly demonstrated how little you actually know about the topic you are trying to argue.
Do we really need to go over how the Nazi's and Italian fascists banned and/or murdered all the left-wing parties, such as the communists and social democrats, when they came to power?
I would like to point out that the word "Fascist" has been in use since at least 1914, predating the first fascist country, Italy, and vastly predating the Nazis. Before these parties came to power "fascist" had a much broader meaning. However, after Italy's Fascista movement the term became synonymous with far right-wing ideology. That was not the original meaning and could also apply to left-wing concepts as well.
Saying "fascist" can be used to describe leftist ideas has every bit the merit as using "they" as a gender neutral pronoun in the singular. Automatically Appended Next Post: d-usa wrote: DrGiggles wrote:
In your opinion then, what is it that doesn't make Bernie a socialist?
- Voted to protect gun manufacturers from liabilities if their products are used for criminal purposes.
Actually, as of 2016 he has redacted his support for that and said he would repeal that law if he could. Automatically Appended Next Post: I caught this in the news a few days ago.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-14-year-old-running-for-governor-of-vermont/
Heck, we have a Nazi running and a guy that tried to buy his spot from Blago. Having a child run seems about right.
Seriously though, there was a story a few years back about a town were a high school student ran for mayor with less than two weeks to go before the election. The other two candidates were such donkey caves the kid won the election simply by saying "hey, at least I'm not them".
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/15 20:32:38
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 20:33:16
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Building a blood in water scent
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cuda1179 wrote: A Town Called Malus wrote: Xenomancers wrote:
Also - I am not sure why they have facism as a far right concept because it is not. The scale works basically by how much influence you want government to have over your day to day life - Fascism is complete government control - it is a far left concept. The way it works out is - it's basically communism with a evil dictator.
And with this it was aptly demonstrated how little you actually know about the topic you are trying to argue.
Do we really need to go over how the Nazi's and Italian fascists banned and/or murdered all the left-wing parties, such as the communists and social democrats, when they came to power?
I would like to point out that the word "Fascist" has been in use since at least 1914, predating the first fascist country, Italy, and vastly predating the Nazis. Before these parties came to power "fascist" had a much broader meaning. However, after Italy's Fascista movement the term became synonymous with far right-wing ideology. That was not the original meaning and could also apply to left-wing concepts as well.
That's when Mussolini founded his fascist party, in Italy. The word fascist comes from the Italian word for a bundle of sticks (hilarious, in an ironic kinda way).
Saying "fascist" can be used to describe leftist ideas has every bit the merit as using "they" as a gender neutral pronoun in the singular.
*pulls pin, walks away whistling merrily*
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We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 20:34:06
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Confessor Of Sins
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Well, it's not like rich people in both parties don't lower their taxes. Didn't Pence actually have to skip on some charity write-offs in order to not pay less taxes than the lowest income bracket?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 20:43:36
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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cuda1179 wrote: A Town Called Malus wrote: Xenomancers wrote:
Also - I am not sure why they have facism as a far right concept because it is not. The scale works basically by how much influence you want government to have over your day to day life - Fascism is complete government control - it is a far left concept. The way it works out is - it's basically communism with a evil dictator.
And with this it was aptly demonstrated how little you actually know about the topic you are trying to argue.
Do we really need to go over how the Nazi's and Italian fascists banned and/or murdered all the left-wing parties, such as the communists and social democrats, when they came to power?
I would like to point out that the word "Fascist" has been in use since at least 1914, predating the first fascist country, Italy, and vastly predating the Nazis. Before these parties came to power "fascist" had a much broader meaning. However, after Italy's Fascista movement the term became synonymous with far right-wing ideology. That was not the original meaning and could also apply to left-wing concepts as well.
Saying "fascist" can be used to describe leftist ideas has every bit the merit as using "they" as a gender neutral pronoun in the singular.
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d-usa wrote: DrGiggles wrote:
In your opinion then, what is it that doesn't make Bernie a socialist?
- Voted to protect gun manufacturers from liabilities if their products are used for criminal purposes.
Actually, as of 2016 he has redacted his support for that and said he would repeal that law if he could.
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I caught this in the news a few days ago.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-14-year-old-running-for-governor-of-vermont/
Heck, we have a Nazi running and a guy that tried to buy his spot from Blago. Having a child run seems about right.
Seriously though, there was a story a few years back about a town were a high school student ran for mayor with less than two weeks to go before the election. The other two candidates were such donkey caves the kid won the election simply by saying "hey, at least I'm not them".
Ice town costs ice clown his town crown
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 21:10:05
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Wow. . . that so many people apparently failed basic political science. . . does not shock me in the least.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 21:38:04
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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d-usa wrote:So every time you vote, you endorse the evil leftist agenda of "having a government".
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
Thomas Paine
Basically - I can deal with government that does it's best not to interfier in my life. So many of our founders believed this to their core. It's very disconcerting to see these ideals disregaurded as "old ideas".
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/15 21:55:31
Subject: US & NA Politics Thread
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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cuda1179 wrote: I do think there is reasonable doubt as to if this tape exists, and if it did why would they sit on it.
I am 100% confident Trump has casually used the word, and I am super dubious this/these tapes exist too. No way someone wouldn't have leaked it by now.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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