Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
aracersss wrote: so this popped out in today's KT article about its rules:
Worry not, Orks – an unmodified hit roll of a 6 is always a hit, regardless of cover, stealth fields, camo cloaks or what have you – so you’ll be able to solve any deficiencies in accuracy with maximum dakka. Or just Burnas.
... have a feeling this will translate to the new codex as well
Maybe for some units, but I doubt it will be across the whole army--or if it is, it would have to be like the Ethereal rule on Nighthaunt.
You can never get positive or negative benefits.
when you think about it, it isn't that broken since it's 6s only
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/14 21:01:54
aracersss wrote: so this popped out in today's KT article about its rules:
Worry not, Orks – an unmodified hit roll of a 6 is always a hit, regardless of cover, stealth fields, camo cloaks or what have you – so you’ll be able to solve any deficiencies in accuracy with maximum dakka. Or just Burnas.
... have a feeling this will translate to the new codex as well
Maybe for some units, but I doubt it will be across the whole army--or if it is, it would have to be like the Ethereal rule on Nighthaunt.
You can never get positive or negative benefits.
when you think about it, it isn't that broken since it's 6s only
Sure, but when you're talking about being BS4+ and a -2 mod so you're hitting on 6s anyways...
I get that Ork shooting is, shall we say, "lackluster" but I don't think encouraging a devil may care attitude is the right way to go about it. The -1 to be hit for most things applies to being 12" or further out, and the additional -1 or whatever usually involves Command Point expenditure or situational things.
aracersss wrote: so this popped out in today's KT article about its rules:
Worry not, Orks – an unmodified hit roll of a 6 is always a hit, regardless of cover, stealth fields, camo cloaks or what have you – so you’ll be able to solve any deficiencies in accuracy with maximum dakka. Or just Burnas.
... have a feeling this will translate to the new codex as well
Maybe for some units, but I doubt it will be across the whole army--or if it is, it would have to be like the Ethereal rule on Nighthaunt.
You can never get positive or negative benefits.
when you think about it, it isn't that broken since it's 6s only
Sure, but when you're talking about being BS4+ and a -2 mod so you're hitting on 6s anyways...
I get that Ork shooting is, shall we say, "lackluster" but I don't think encouraging a devil may care attitude is the right way to go about it. The -1 to be hit for most things applies to being 12" or further out, and the additional -1 or whatever usually involves Command Point expenditure or situational things.
aren't they bs5+ ?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/14 21:14:34
aracersss wrote: so this popped out in today's KT article about its rules:
Worry not, Orks – an unmodified hit roll of a 6 is always a hit, regardless of cover, stealth fields, camo cloaks or what have you – so you’ll be able to solve any deficiencies in accuracy with maximum dakka. Or just Burnas.
... have a feeling this will translate to the new codex as well
Maybe for some units, but I doubt it will be across the whole army--or if it is, it would have to be like the Ethereal rule on Nighthaunt.
You can never get positive or negative benefits.
when you think about it, it isn't that broken since it's 6s only
Sure, but when you're talking about being BS4+ and a -2 mod so you're hitting on 6s anyways...
I get that Ork shooting is, shall we say, "lackluster" but I don't think encouraging a devil may care attitude is the right way to go about it. The -1 to be hit for most things applies to being 12" or further out, and the additional -1 or whatever usually involves Command Point expenditure or situational things.
Most shooting attacks in the game are made at longer range then 12 inches. Furthermore the other benefits are not situational, some are "be within X amount of inches of someone" or have "hard to hit" or a faction built into their rules. It is not that hard for some factions to get -2 to hit, hell some can get -3 to hit.
aracersss wrote: so this popped out in today's KT article about its rules:
Worry not, Orks – an unmodified hit roll of a 6 is always a hit, regardless of cover, stealth fields, camo cloaks or what have you – so you’ll be able to solve any deficiencies in accuracy with maximum dakka. Or just Burnas.
... have a feeling this will translate to the new codex as well
Hope so - this rule for Orks (not Gretchin) would I think work well and be nicely thematic.
yep most orks hit on 5's anyway so a -2 is brutal. A few do hit on 4's but not many.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/14 21:37:37
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Always hitting on 6s would be a nice rule to translate over to 40k proper, and would nicely mirror the always failing on 1s.
Personally, though, I'd like it if Orks had a rule that they always hit on 5s outside of overwatch regardless of modifiers? Why for? Because Ork weapons don't make sense anyway, but work because of the funky distortions of reality that come when enough Orks believe things work. It would be a simple extension of this logic to say that Orks always hit the same amount (on 5s) because that's how much they imagine they'll hit. But it ain't happening.
TonyH122 wrote: Always hitting on 6s would be a nice rule to translate over to 40k proper, and would nicely mirror the always failing on 1s.
Personally, though, I'd like it if Orks had a rule that they always hit on 5s outside of overwatch regardless of modifiers? Why for? Because Ork weapons don't make sense anyway, but work because of the funky distortions of reality that come when enough Orks believe things work. It would be a simple extension of this logic to say that Orks always hit the same amount (on 5s) because that's how much they imagine they'll hit. But it ain't happening.
I agree about the always hitting on 6s rule. I'd like to see it as a game-wide rule for everyone, although I think it matters the most for orks.
I'm not sure about the Orks always hitting on 5+. I don't think it would break the game, but I'm not sure it's the best solution either. From a fluff perspective, there are plenty of examples of ork weapons that don't work unless they're in the hands of orks, but there are also plenty of examples of ork weapons working in the hands of humans. How much the latent Ork psychic powers warp the world around them is a pretty contentious subject in the ork community (I'm personally in the "magic grease" camp, more or less). Funny thing is that ork tech often appears to make more sense than Imperial tech.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/14 23:19:16
aracersss wrote: so this popped out in today's KT article about its rules:
Worry not, Orks – an unmodified hit roll of a 6 is always a hit, regardless of cover, stealth fields, camo cloaks or what have you – so you’ll be able to solve any deficiencies in accuracy with maximum dakka. Or just Burnas.
... have a feeling this will translate to the new codex as well
Maybe for some units, but I doubt it will be across the whole army--or if it is, it would have to be like the Ethereal rule on Nighthaunt.
You can never get positive or negative benefits.
when you think about it, it isn't that broken since it's 6s only
Sure, but when you're talking about being BS4+ and a -2 mod so you're hitting on 6s anyways...
I get that Ork shooting is, shall we say, "lackluster" but I don't think encouraging a devil may care attitude is the right way to go about it. The -1 to be hit for most things applies to being 12" or further out, and the additional -1 or whatever usually involves Command Point expenditure or situational things.
Maybe a mistake or miss type but they're BS 5+. Even at -1 to hit a loota army is screwed simply for the reasons they can never move ever again..... because they have heavy weapons if they move that's -1 plus -1 from rmy trait and they're already at 7+BS. What's worse is their 6+ armour making them sitting ducks unable to inch outnof the way of trouble or reposition themselves in a trukk/wagon. Shooting orks are fluffy but haven't been supported for so long people forget they even exist. XD
TonyH122 wrote: Always hitting on 6s would be a nice rule to translate over to 40k proper, and would nicely mirror the always failing on 1s.
Personally, though, I'd like it if Orks had a rule that they always hit on 5s outside of overwatch regardless of modifiers? Why for? Because Ork weapons don't make sense anyway, but work because of the funky distortions of reality that come when enough Orks believe things work. It would be a simple extension of this logic to say that Orks always hit the same amount (on 5s) because that's how much they imagine they'll hit. But it ain't happening.
I agree about the always hitting on 6s rule. I'd like to see it as a game-wide rule for everyone, although I think it matters the most for orks.
I'm not sure about the Orks always hitting on 5+. I don't think it would break the game, but I'm not sure it's the best solution either. From a fluff perspective, there are plenty of examples of ork weapons that don't work unless they're in the hands of orks, but there are also plenty of examples of ork weapons working in the hands of humans. How much the latent Ork psychic powers warp the world around them is a pretty contentious subject in the ork community (I'm personally in the "magic grease" camp, more or less). Funny thing is that ork tech often appears to make more sense than Imperial tech.
Did nobody read my post a few pages back that has a fee thousands word essay (no jke) ¥n how ork waagh powers work? If not go back and read it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/15 02:43:48
Maybe a mistake or miss type but they're BS 5+. Even at -1 to hit a loota army is screwed simply for the reasons they can never move ever again..... because they have heavy weapons if they move that's -1 plus -1 from rmy trait and they're already at 7+BS. What's worse is their 6+ armour making them sitting ducks unable to inch outnof the way of trouble or reposition themselves in a trukk/wagon. Shooting orks are fluffy but haven't been supported for so long people forget they even exist. XD
Sorry, I was using BS4+ as an example rather than specific for Orks. The point was that when you're hitting on higher values to start with, being able to just straight out ignore negatives is far larger than it is for someone hitting on a lower value--at least IMO.
aracersss wrote: so this popped out in today's KT article about its rules:
Worry not, Orks – an unmodified hit roll of a 6 is always a hit, regardless of cover, stealth fields, camo cloaks or what have you – so you’ll be able to solve any deficiencies in accuracy with maximum dakka. Or just Burnas.
... have a feeling this will translate to the new codex as well
Maybe for some units, but I doubt it will be across the whole army--or if it is, it would have to be like the Ethereal rule on Nighthaunt.
You can never get positive or negative benefits.
when you think about it, it isn't that broken since it's 6s only
Sure, but when you're talking about being BS4+ and a -2 mod so you're hitting on 6s anyways...
I get that Ork shooting is, shall we say, "lackluster" but I don't think encouraging a devil may care attitude is the right way to go about it. The -1 to be hit for most things applies to being 12" or further out, and the additional -1 or whatever usually involves Command Point expenditure or situational things.
Maybe a mistake or miss type but they're BS 5+. Even at -1 to hit a loota army is screwed simply for the reasons they can never move ever again..... because they have heavy weapons if they move that's -1 plus -1 from rmy trait and they're already at 7+BS. What's worse is their 6+ armour making them sitting ducks unable to inch outnof the way of trouble or reposition themselves in a trukk/wagon. Shooting orks are fluffy but haven't been supported for so long people forget they even exist. XD
TonyH122 wrote: Always hitting on 6s would be a nice rule to translate over to 40k proper, and would nicely mirror the always failing on 1s.
Personally, though, I'd like it if Orks had a rule that they always hit on 5s outside of overwatch regardless of modifiers? Why for? Because Ork weapons don't make sense anyway, but work because of the funky distortions of reality that come when enough Orks believe things work. It would be a simple extension of this logic to say that Orks always hit the same amount (on 5s) because that's how much they imagine they'll hit. But it ain't happening.
I agree about the always hitting on 6s rule. I'd like to see it as a game-wide rule for everyone, although I think it matters the most for orks.
I'm not sure about the Orks always hitting on 5+. I don't think it would break the game, but I'm not sure it's the best solution either. From a fluff perspective, there are plenty of examples of ork weapons that don't work unless they're in the hands of orks, but there are also plenty of examples of ork weapons working in the hands of humans. How much the latent Ork psychic powers warp the world around them is a pretty contentious subject in the ork community (I'm personally in the "magic grease" camp, more or less). Funny thing is that ork tech often appears to make more sense than Imperial tech.
Did nobody read my post a few pages back that has a fee thousands word essay (no jke) ¥n how ork waagh powers work? If not go back and read it.
Can you re-link it?
I recall having an issue viewing it; really wanted to check it out...
Fe40k, it's on this page here. It's in a post, just open upnthe spoiler and resd it). I didn't write it though, was done by a guy who know too much about orks).
Maybe a mistake or miss type but they're BS 5+. Even at -1 to hit a loota army is screwed simply for the reasons they can never move ever again..... because they have heavy weapons if they move that's -1 plus -1 from rmy trait and they're already at 7+BS. What's worse is their 6+ armour making them sitting ducks unable to inch outnof the way of trouble or reposition themselves in a trukk/wagon. Shooting orks are fluffy but haven't been supported for so long people forget they even exist. XD
Sorry, I was using BS4+ as an example rather than specific for Orks. The point was that when you're hitting on higher values to start with, being able to just straight out ignore negatives is far larger than it is for someone hitting on a lower value--at least IMO.
the reason I think 6+ is a good medium with the basic rule set we have is that it's still a huge nerf when fighting -1 armies, you go thrown 2/3 it's to 1/6. That's half your effectiveness! But it's not to the point that 40% of our army is useless.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/15 07:01:19
There's no doubt Orks need a rule that let's them always hit on 6s. In fact, every faction should have this rule. It's absolutely bogus that armies can stack negative to hit modifiers so much that other armies can't even fire at them. It's ridiculous. It also goes against the design philosophy of 8th that was supposed to enable interaction at all times. Hence always wounding on a 6 becoming a thing.
It's not hard to go to -2 to hit either. Most Ork weapons are assault, well you can't advance and fire at ANY army with a -1 to hit. Forget even moving with heavy weapons. Alaitoc rangers are literally immune to most of my guns.
No, it's one of the worst things in the game and they need to fix it.
Haha, I still remember having an Orky shooty army I prepared to prove shooting was still viable in 8th (I thought everyone was over reacting) but then face raven guard with acid raid and lost two of my shooting phases. By the time they got within 15" it was too lait. Should have brought a gretchin shooting army I geuss.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:From a fluff perspective, there are plenty of examples of ork weapons that don't work unless they're in the hands of orks, but there are also plenty of examples of ork weapons working in the hands of humans. How much the latent Ork psychic powers warp the world around them is a pretty contentious subject in the ork community (I'm personally in the "magic grease" camp, more or less). Funny thing is that ork tech often appears to make more sense than Imperial tech.
They worked for Cain and Jurgen (who is a blank, capable of negating even hive tyrants and greater daemons) during their months long guerilla campaign on ork held planet. So, yeah, unless they can somehow magic their influence past blanks the speshul orky field theory is pretty much bogus.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
I'm not sexist, I just don't want to see that image ever again. XD it's burned into my mind! Now all I can think about is orcs doing it... oh gork... Please save me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/15 10:56:53
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
So fantasy Ourruks breed like mammals. Huh...
Ok, are the Savage Orruk bonesplitterz getting female models...
Cuzz my tribe seems short on scantily clad savage Ourrk womenz... And. I would probably paint lots of topless savage ladies... riding boars... because I want other people to have to look at them! If gun for the whole famn damily ...apparently.
I really can't say I am a fan of the idea of female greenskins at all but I would paint them for the tribe if they were sold for exactly the reason I said before. The reactions would be totally worth it.
The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them.
Also even if orks have a single gender naturally; these are modern times. If an ork wants to dress up in a dress and er, give imself some bigger chesticales then he's got every right too (provided he's big enough to smash the gob of any gobbo that disagrees
Irbis wrote: So, FW just posted their new ork models:
Spoiler:
*ducks ahead of torrent of complains*
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:From a fluff perspective, there are plenty of examples of ork weapons that don't work unless they're in the hands of orks, but there are also plenty of examples of ork weapons working in the hands of humans. How much the latent Ork psychic powers warp the world around them is a pretty contentious subject in the ork community (I'm personally in the "magic grease" camp, more or less). Funny thing is that ork tech often appears to make more sense than Imperial tech.
They worked for Cain and Jurgen (who is a blank, capable of negating even hive tyrants and greater daemons) during their months long guerilla campaign on ork held planet. So, yeah, unless they can somehow magic their influence past blanks the speshul orky field theory is pretty much bogus.
Christ that's disgusting and a classic GW move - they make the only female models nobody every asked for nor wanted.
More importantly though, does it solve any of the rumour engines?
I wouldn't try to make too much sense of the fluff, the continuity and rules break all the time. According to The Beast series, there is without question a latent psychic field that allows Ork weapons to operate correctly, they may still operate if the field isn't present but then you're expecting an Orkish weapon to work based solely on science. We've all seen Meks right? Not a good idea.
Overread wrote: Fantasy orks are indeed different to 40K orks.
Also even if orks have a single gender naturally; these are modern times. If an ork wants to dress up in a dress and er, give imself some bigger chesticales then he's got every right too (provided he's big enough to smash the gob of any gobbo that disagrees
Hummmmm. As far as the AoS Green Skins go I would be ok with a second "gender" for them. I find it a bit revolting because they're orc's. I'm not wishing for it to be a thing but the idea of evoking emotions from other players...well that's like the definition of art...and it might cost them the game!
I don't like the idea but I love Orcs... Green Skins are more my hobby than Warhammer after 20 years of green Skins.
I have been called a sick puppy before.
The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Remember kids, Games Workshop needs you more than you need them.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Okay... I k ow they look like the old British landladies you would see in 60s films but I genuinely know people that look like those orks and have their hair like that! Also, no joke, have a bottle in their hand ready to throw it like that.
I had a game yesterday where I ran 2 morkanauts a gorkanaut and 90 boys, 2 weird boys, 2 shokk attacks. I played against jormungandr nods and he had venomthropes which give all units within 6" -1 to hit.. My morkanauts put about 4-5 wounds on themselves from all the -1. Additionally he would cast the horror and 1 couldnt shoot at all. Even on 6s, shokk attacks did nothing, mork/gork did nothing outside of CC. Their weapons are literally wasted points. I did win the game because 2 exploded midfield in a large melee. Killed like the whole board but if they hadn't that -1 was ridiculous.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
mhalko1 wrote: I had a game yesterday where I ran 2 morkanauts a gorkanaut and 90 boys, 2 weird boys, 2 shokk attacks. I played against jormungandr nods and he had venomthropes which give all units within 6" -1 to hit.. My morkanauts put about 4-5 wounds on themselves from all the -1. Additionally he would cast the horror and 1 couldnt shoot at all. Even on 6s, shokk attacks did nothing, mork/gork did nothing outside of CC. Their weapons are literally wasted points. I did win the game because 2 exploded midfield in a large melee. Killed like the whole board but if they hadn't that -1 was ridiculous.
... and some say hitting always on 6s isn't needed for orkz
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/15 18:22:08
mhalko1 wrote: I had a game yesterday where I ran 2 morkanauts a gorkanaut and 90 boys, 2 weird boys, 2 shokk attacks. I played against jormungandr nods and he had venomthropes which give all units within 6" -1 to hit.. My morkanauts put about 4-5 wounds on themselves from all the -1. Additionally he would cast the horror and 1 couldnt shoot at all. Even on 6s, shokk attacks did nothing, mork/gork did nothing outside of CC. Their weapons are literally wasted points. I did win the game because 2 exploded midfield in a large melee. Killed like the whole board but if they hadn't that -1 was ridiculous.
... and some say hitting always on 6s isn't needed for orkz
Yeah it was super frustrating. Plus the -1 is annoying to the kustom weapons, I was overheating left and right.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
I'm not wishing for it to be a thing but the idea of evoking emotions from other players...well that's like the definition of art...and it might cost them the game!
