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2018/07/30 02:24:10
Subject: Re:[Kill Team] Adeptus Mechanicus: Tactica
Gonna pick up a box of Sicarians to complement my Skitarii and I'll have a pretty well rounded Kill Team on my hands. Here's the list I'm thinking about running:
Got options to swap out the Vanguard Alpha's loadout for just a Radium Carbine or swap out the Ruststalker Princeps for a Ranger Gunner with Transuranic Arquebus, or I can drop the enhanced data tether on the Comms guy and replace the Ranger Alpha with a Ranger Gunner with Transuranic Arquebus. The enhanced data tether is nice for the +2 bonus to our Doctrina Imperative tactics and the nerve test rerolls but since we can get access to nerve test rerolls from our Canticle and hit bonuses from various places, I wouldn't say it's an auto include. Overall though, I think this is a pretty balanced list. While I think the Infiltrator is better than the Ruststalker, I think the Ruststalker Princeps is decent for KT. As a Zealot it'll be swinging 4 S6 attacks and 1 S5 Chordclaw attack on the charge and with the unique Ad Mech tactic that lets Ruststalkers add 1 to the wound roll for all their weapons, they'll have a better chance of getting those mortal wounds on a 5+ so at least this makes them a bit more viable as a tag team partner to the Infiltrator Princeps.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/30 02:34:18
MrMoustaffa wrote: That point increase for specialists is warranted. Pulling that out really tips the scale in favor of elite armies as now they're getting a huge step up and essentially playing with free models. A level 4 specialist for things like comms, leader, or sniper can really swing a game, they cost those points for a reason. Yeah it sucks you have to take less guys but that's why we have the option of switching up our kill teams between missions. It's there to not only give you a reason to consider taking new recruits over vets, but also to give a player who had a bad spell of luck with casualties a chance to catch back up as he'll be able to take more models than you to counteract the experience gap.
It's a clever fix to an issue that often popped up in shadow war, mainly that one player could have a bad game at the start and then never catch up as everyone else rocketed ahead with super elite teams and additional gear. By making veteran models cost more you ensure that no matter how bad you have a game go, you still have a chance to compete to some degree.
As an additional point, the book actually recommends that when your narrative campaign reaches a point where everyone is packing a ton of leveled up models that you increase the points cost of a kill team to accommodate them. So it isn't actually an issue at all.
MrMoustaffa wrote: That point increase for specialists is warranted. Pulling that out really tips the scale in favor of elite armies as now they're getting a huge step up and essentially playing with free models. A level 4 specialist for things like comms, leader, or sniper can really swing a game, they cost those points for a reason. Yeah it sucks you have to take less guys but that's why we have the option of switching up our kill teams between missions. It's there to not only give you a reason to consider taking new recruits over vets, but also to give a player who had a bad spell of luck with casualties a chance to catch back up as he'll be able to take more models than you to counteract the experience gap.
It's a clever fix to an issue that often popped up in shadow war, mainly that one player could have a bad game at the start and then never catch up as everyone else rocketed ahead with super elite teams and additional gear. By making veteran models cost more you ensure that no matter how bad you have a game go, you still have a chance to compete to some degree.
As an additional point, the book actually recommends that when your narrative campaign reaches a point where everyone is packing a ton of leveled up models that you increase the points cost of a kill team to accommodate them. So it isn't actually an issue at all.
In addition to that, you're supposed to build your list for each game out of a pool, so while your pool is relatively set at a fixed twenty, your game to game team is more flexible for build.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/30 23:49:04
Hey folks, this is what I was thinking for a starting kill team. Sniper on a plasma caliver seemed pretty solid seeing as how punishing it is to roll a 1 now. I think I have a decent mix of threat ranges to play the table, but wasn't quite sure whether to take a second arc rifle or plasma caliver. I guess if anything I just fire the non Sniper on normal.
Anyone find any fun interactions beyond the omnispex + sniper? Curious if there's any other clutch unit combos worth including in the command roster.
Just picked up my starter set today and bought the sprues off a buddy who did the same, intend to kitbash the GSC with the Admech for a nice little custom force.
Hey folks, this is what I was thinking for a starting kill team. Sniper on a plasma caliver seemed pretty solid seeing as how punishing it is to roll a 1 now. I think I have a decent mix of threat ranges to play the table, but wasn't quite sure whether to take a second arc rifle or plasma caliver. I guess if anything I just fire the non Sniper on normal.
Looks solid to me ! You could use the Omnispex as a Comms specialist in your roster, he could buff your non-specialist plasma by giving him +1 to Hit to prevent risky overcharges.
From what I can see, plasma is a riskier version of the arquebus, although it may be more rewarding. It's shorter range needs your guy to be really close, risk him blowing up to deal 2D (but wound on 2+ MEQ) whereas the arquebus deals 2D on average with a chance of mortal wounds. The plasma is cheaper and has 1 more shot though. With the Heavy specialist stratagem you can have it shoot 3 times, if you really want to kill something.
I finally played two quick games today, but on a 24x24" terrain, so a little shorter. I played this both games:
I faced Harlequins so I was really afraid, but as soon as his guys came close I managed to savagely whittle them down with radium and flechette blasters. I also used the fight first stratagem to save my Infiltrator and he managed to kill the enemy Zealot with his taser goad (S6 really hurts Eldars). I had 8 guys and he had 6, we were going to play the mission where you score points by making the enemy fail morale tests but settled for a kill points. Had we sticked to the morale mission I had won by my turn two, as I killed 3 of his dudes and hurt severely the others.
Game two was against Tau, it was 3 Pathfinders with rail guns, a Grav-Drone, another spotter Drone or something like that, a Fire Warrior and two Stealth suits. Mission was capturing enemies in CC (ah, we were talking about that one) so no luck for my opponent who deployed most of his team in a cluster at the 1st floor of a ruin, preventing me from charging there as long as I hadn't killed one guy or two. We didn't finish the game because store was closing, but I had killed his 3 Pathfinders, was locking his 2 Stealth suits in CC with my Zealot and coming from the back with another Infiltrator, while having only two casualties and one wounded, so it was going nice for me.
From these games I noticed that having little AP mattered little for us, as we have the means to shoot A LOT. Seriously, even with a 4++, rolling 3 saves for a 1W guy is tough. It allows us to quickly wound or dispatch enemy models to reduce their efficacy and force morale checks. We should still keep an AP gun like the arquebus, plasma or even the arc rifle in our roster when facing MEQ though.
Infiltrators are GOOD from what I've seen here, they ended up shooting quite more than I expected and forced saves, while being absolutely murderous in CC. Tasers are formidable against E3 and power swords on the Zealot Princeps made me 4 S5 attacks on the charge on the 2 suits. Also, they are quite fast and with the Dunestrider stratagem you can hide them easier by sprinting. Also, the -1 Ld aura is in my opinion invaluable to mitigate their morale tests, when you have an Infiltrator near their highest Ld model. I didn't tried them, but I don't believe Ruststalkers can be that good. Yes they deal MWs, but if it's invulnerable saves your problem, the taser goad is just as good. Ruststalkers should be cheaper.
Shroudpsalm is an incredible protection from turn 1 shots, giving your opponent -2 to Hit when obscured. I used it in the second game to protect my Infiltrators as they moved.
That's a good point! Though I do have a question on how the overcharge rule works. I had thought unmodified roll of 1 meant a natural one on the die roll? Otherwise you might overcharge if you had enough penalties.
How did you find the Arquebus? Not being able to move and shoot makes it seem hard to play.
Oh an aside, I think Plasma Caliver's being Assault 2 is relevant. Just having the option to put out more shots a touch farther away than some of our rapid fire range is kinda interesting.
Looks solid to me ! You could use the Omnispex as a Comms specialist in your roster, he could buff your non-specialist plasma by giving him +1 to Hit to prevent risky overcharges.
+1 to hit doesn't prevent overcharge kill, as in KT plasma explodes on unmodified 1. Thus preroll of 1 is only way.
Sgt.Sunshine wrote:That's a good point! Though I do have a question on how the overcharge rule works. I had thought unmodified roll of 1 meant a natural one on the die roll? Otherwise you might overcharge if you had enough penalties.
How did you find the Arquebus? Not being able to move and shoot makes it seem hard to play.
Oh an aside, I think Plasma Caliver's being Assault 2 is relevant. Just having the option to put out more shots a touch farther away than some of our rapid fire range is kinda interesting.
I find arquebus incredibly useful. Just use them like real sniper rifle. To cover your ground, especially if you have to close in with units like infiltrators. Or does heavy lifting by taking units quite frequently and effectively. most of the times its one shot one kill.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
Sgt.Sunshine wrote: That's a good point! Though I do have a question on how the overcharge rule works. I had thought unmodified roll of 1 meant a natural one on the die roll? Otherwise you might overcharge if you had enough penalties.
How did you find the Arquebus? Not being able to move and shoot makes it seem hard to play.
Oh an aside, I think Plasma Caliver's being Assault 2 is relevant. Just having the option to put out more shots a touch farther away than some of our rapid fire range is kinda interesting.
I don't have the KT book but I believe it's like in 40k where it's not an unmodified roll of 1 ? If I'm wrong all right, then the plasma is more attractive than I thought, but if not you may explode on a 1, 2 or 3 if you have say a -2 to hit for exemple. Can someone confirm if the wording is the same ?
I loved the arquebus, shooting at 2+, rerolling 1s, ignoring obsured. It dealt 2D most of the time and almost always killed or wounded. I wouldn't play two of them but this one is solid, being prepared every turn means you can quickly dismiss a threat if you have initiative.
Worst part of omnispex is that you can't have it on trans are, as it grants to other model, so you kinda have to put it on normal ranger and put him nearby your sniper.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
Spera wrote: I can confirm that it is only on natural 1.
Worst part of omnispex is that you can't have it on trans are, as it grants to other model, so you kinda have to put it on normal ranger and put him nearby your sniper.
Oh thanks, yes plasma is greatly buffed in KT I see.
It's not bad you know, having a model close to your arquebus means you'll pass morale tests easier, and the point is to make the Omnispex guy a Comms specialist to give him a free +1 to Hit every turn, leaving you your +1 to Hit stratagem for another dude.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2018/08/01 12:39:18
Subject: Re:[Kill Team] Adeptus Mechanicus: Tactica
Is there any point to giving a Leader Vanguard/Ranger Alpha a melee weapon/pistol over their regular weapons? My meta has plenty of melee which is why I don't think it's a terrible idea in my scenario plus they're free with the exception of the Taser Goad. I'm thinking an Arc Maul and a Phosphor Blast Pistol since it'll often be wounding on 3+ and ignores obscured.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/01 12:41:29
The idea is I'd have the melee option more for defending myself when I inevitably get into a fight when I get charged rather than seeking out a fight. I play against Harlequins and Tyranids so it won't be difficult for them to close the distance quickly if they really wanted. I prefer a Vanguard Alpha for rad saturation personally.
2018/08/01 14:03:03
Subject: Re:[Kill Team] Adeptus Mechanicus: Tactica
Mr. Funktastic wrote: The idea is I'd have the melee option more for defending myself when I inevitably get into a fight when I get charged rather than seeking out a fight. I play against Harlequins and Tyranids so it won't be difficult for them to close the distance quickly if they really wanted. I prefer a Vanguard Alpha for rad saturation personally.
Then you are planing for failure than for wining. Don't get me wrong, getting some countermeasures isn't bad. but your main objective should be wining. There is no reason outside of camping and open play to do melee leader, as their lvl1 trait don't support melee in any way, and doing into melee is far more dangerous of them. Play to your strenghts. Its still better for your leader to provide range support than to be equipped with melee. In oil team you rarely have enough abilities to respond to enemy actions to make this approach work. So you must instead try to dictate game tempo and be proactive.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
2018/08/01 14:24:30
Subject: Re:[Kill Team] Adeptus Mechanicus: Tactica
Very fair points, plus I wouldn't expect him to do much in melee since they still hit on 4+ for some reason and at the very least rad saturation helps so he'll wound on 4+/3+ most of the time when he's forced to fight. In any case I'll have an Infiltrator Princeps and Ruststalker Princeps to meet melee threats anyway, wouldn't be a bad idea for my Vanguard Alpha to provide mid range support with his radium carbine. Thanks for the feedback!
2018/08/02 10:07:43
Subject: Re:[Kill Team] Adeptus Mechanicus: Tactica
Yes I thought about keeping my taser Alpha for the rule of cool but realistically it would be a waste, you'll want to keep your leader as a vanilla Ranger or Alpha and place him hidden or obscured most of the time for your CPs and the Ld if you don't have another Ld 7 on the table.
Speaking of Ld, I lost yesterday against a team of 6 Intercessors because of Morale. Both our teams were at half strength by turn 4 (the last) but mine got demoralised (really easy when you know the average of 2d6 is 7) and so even though I had 3 VP and my opponent had none, the team who is not demoralised wins by the rules of the mission. This highlighted two things for me: Marines are almost impossible to break with Morale, and Skitarii have a flimsy Ld. When you start accumulating the +1 for each teammate who is either injured or shaken it's really easy to get shaken and so start losing the game. I believe we really need to either have a data-tether (but in my opinion it's really costly, and this guy will get targeted fast) or clump our guys together to have -1 on our Morale tests. At the same time it could be interesting to aim at wounding the most models possible to start giving your opponent tests for a Demoralised team early in the game. When your team is Demoralised you either aim at doing the same to the other team to get even (knowing your whole squad gets and additional -1 to Hit) or you just wipe them out.
Also, beware of Intercessors with grenade launchers, the same Marine killed me one Skitarii a turn with a Krak grenade from across the map ! Just beautiful in its own way.
The data-tether and Omnispec both seem like a tax to me. On the bright side you at least get a tactics bonus from having the data-tether around sometimes. Pairing off also seems like a wise idea. I'll probably go with the list I posted previously to aggressively push the table. The play space seems small enough that you can get ranges.
Sgt.Sunshine wrote: The data-tether and Omnispec both seem like a tax to me. On the bright side you at least get a tactics bonus from having the data-tether around sometimes. Pairing off also seems like a wise idea. I'll probably go with the list I posted previously to aggressively push the table. The play space seems small enough that you can get ranges.
A I used omnispex for trans arq, and since it gets stratagem for 1 cp to et basically that i can see myself without it. But data there is almost mandatory.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
2018/08/03 11:51:16
Subject: Re:[Kill Team] Adeptus Mechanicus: Tactica
The Transuranic Arquebus tactic is 2 CP while the Omnispex is 1 pt. We have plenty of good tactics and I'd rather have a Comms Ranger with an Omnispex acting as spotter than spend 2 CP for a 1 pt wargear's job. The data tether is good but pricey, since we have a canticle that does also helps reroll nerve tests if you can't make 5 pts on your list for a data tether I wouldn't stress too much but it's definitely a good investment if you can swing the points for it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/03 11:52:58
Especially with the somewhat hefty points cost of Admech, I find the Tether to be very, very helpful. Almost as necessary as the comms/omnispex. Super helpful as you start getting deeper into combat.
Lost today against another SM list, mostly because of morale once again. I got 4 wounded very quickly and at turn two I lost the Demoralised test (don't know the name in English) and so my team had a whole -1 to hit forever, plus having half the team shaken every turn because of -4 on the morale test. Seriously when my team gets demoralised I'd rather abandon the game as it's just impossible to do anything, hitting on 6s because of distance, cover, morale and wounds and having half the team not moving is tough.
I played the same list as the last times, to play faster (we didn't have much time) so no I didn't try it, I'll proxy it next game to see, but honestly some models could only be saved on a 1 or 2 so even with rerolls they're doomed.
I knew i wasnt making it up! In our codex an alpha can take a melee weapon without replacing their galvanic rifle/radium carbine. In KT you have to replace both.
Octovol wrote: I knew i wasnt making it up! In our codex an alpha can take a melee weapon without replacing their galvanic rifle/radium carbine. In KT you have to replace both.
Yes and this is sad, I would give an Arc Maul or Power Sword to my Alphas any day if we could. And they would look glorious.
I’m going to be competing in throne of skulls so KT is on hold for me. Especially seeing as i now have to fully paint 1000pts of my army because my local group doesnt care how well painted stuff is but WW does lol
Support Team Skitarii Ranger Gunner [10]: Arc Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
Skitarii Ranger [9]: Galvanic Rifle
100 points
Assault Team's job is to choke the enemy and give your Calivers time to do their work. I think the Infiltrator should be the Leader and the Vanguard Alpha the Zealot. The former is already really good at melee, and his -1 Ld aura combined with Tyrant is very strong because it forces the opponent to either spend CP or SP to prevent getting shaken--that or to cluster up, which pretty much means you auto lose. Zealot over Combat because the purpose of the Assault Team is to support the shooting; this army is not going to win games on its fighting.
Plasma Teams have one Caliver and one Omnispex. There is a specialist in each team in either role. The Caliver takes priority; the other Vanguard is sacrificial if necessary. I didn't take data-tether because it's really expensive. I would much rather take a second Plasma Caliver.
Support Team is supposed to shoot any targets of opportunity. Rapid Fire is surprisingly good in this game, and the Galvanic Rifles can really reach out and touch people.
