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Ship to Ship fights transporters are useless until the shields are down - at least for direct ship to ship.

However my impression is its likely a technology that's easily disrupted. So if combat use became standard - countermeasures would be pretty swift.

I think the closest we got were Roms Self Replicating Mines. Effective use of replicators, clokes and transporters (least I think they used those to place themsleves in close proximity as they self replicated more).


It also seems like if the subject is moving its body there can be issues. Notice how almost all the time a person is standing pretty still or only moving at a constant whole-body rate (eg on a train).

That we know people can be beamed to and from moving objects (including planets!) I assume it’s a matter of maths and calibration.

And we’re told that site to site within the same ship is risky. I’m presuming due to some Margin of Error (for instance, changes in relative velocities, lots of ongoing experiments which might alter the accuracy of calculations).

We have seen things beamed into space before, albeit typical inanimate objects. But that is presumably more an ethical concern.

I’m fairly sure the Borg have the means to beam through shields?

Star Trek tech very rarely gets its implications fully worked out. But then you don't see the arms race the tech and use of tech would trigger. I mean why teleport out when you can teleport patterns of objects into your own ship to materialise inside unfortunates to clear out what should be empty corridors. Or holodeck tech as defensive measures throughout the ship, etc.

 Overread wrote:
Ship to Ship fights transporters are useless until the shields are down - at least for direct ship to ship.

I would assume that if you were weaponizing the transporter you'd also be investing in the specialists you'd need to take down the enemies shields. We've seen that this is possible numerous times.

If the writers forget you can beam through shields....

Just one example of many:

The Enterprise-E beamed the crew of the Defiant aboard without dropping their shields.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
If the writers forget you can beam through shields....

Just one example of many:

The Enterprise-E beamed the crew of the Defiant aboard without dropping their shields.

Obviously the crew of the Enterprise E had access to the shield modulation data of the Defiant and was able to tune their transporters to the right frequency to bypass the Defiant's shields.

Beeming and shields its usually plot driven - shield modulation, higher /lower tech levels, new one off procedures etc

The Borg and the Dominion can ignore shields for weapons and beeming - until they don;t

On the bright side, Trek's reluctance to fully consider the ramifications of its technology allowed Stargate to be the first to actually pull off the fanfic favorite "they don't have shields? how quaint, beam a nuke onto their bridge".

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
If the writers forget you can beam through shields....

Just one example of many:

The Enterprise-E beamed the crew of the Defiant aboard without dropping their shields.

If you're referring to First Contact, Defiant had lost main power and shields were offline. They don't mention Enterprise dropping shields for the transport, but they also don't say they don't.

Beaming through a ship's own shields through is highly dependent on whether or not the story at hand requires them to not be able to beam something through their own shields. It's generally possible unless the story requires it to not be.

There’s a whole thing in the TNG technical manual that you can beam through your own shields during “windows” in the modulation (effectively shields have a frame rate).

Also, I believe the Borg weapons are some combination of tractor beam and or transporter that effectively rips their target apart.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
On the bright side, Trek's reluctance to fully consider the ramifications of its technology allowed Stargate to be the first to actually pull off the fanfic favorite "they don't have shields? how quaint, beam a nuke onto their bridge".

And even then it was countered in the same engagement it was employed in.

I now understand the cut and paste fleets from Picard.

I just got Paramount+ and immediately started watching Picard... I actually am enjoying Seasons 1 & 2 (4 episodes into season 2).

Next I can watch Starfleet Academy, Discovery or Strange New Worlds.

Watched the first two episodes of Academy and I'm really enjoying it. It feels like Trek in some of the best ways and the characters are almost entirely likeable (the hologram student is mildly annoying). I'm looking forward to more episodes.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I now understand the cut and paste fleets from Picard.

I just got Paramount+ and immediately started watching Picard... I actually am enjoying Seasons 1 & 2 (4 episodes into season 2).

Next I can watch Starfleet Academy, Discovery or Strange New Worlds.

Sort of have to watch Disco first as the other 2 are spinoffs. Once the prequel Enterprise storyline is done in Disco you're safe to watch SNW. That being said some people don't need to watch everything in perfect order.

I watched SNW without watching more than the first few episodes of Discovery and it was fine. More than enough context clues to get going and sufficient exposition in the couple of episodes where it’s directly relevant for it to make sense as a standalone.


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Also: very good. The first live action in a while to genuinely feel like Star Trek.

IIRC they only mention the Disco events in the very first SNW episode only to never come back to them again. So you can watch SNW without Disco just fine.
Good for you, you don't have to suffer through one of the worst SF series I've ever seen.

The Mirror Universe stuff is pretty cool though. As it breaks away from the Michael Burnham Show.

Then Season 2 happens, and once again it’s Leave it to Burnham. Including the absolute worst fleet battle I’ve ever seen ever.

They totally killed the mirror universe with that arc for me, and I really liked the DS9 version.
And then some braindead Idiot decided, what if Michelle Yeoh played mirror universe Hitler and was recruited for Starfleet to throw in snarky remarks for the lulz? And then we do a Star Trek movie where they want to recruit that Hitler for Starfleet once again...

Yeah, Michelle Yeoh is a goddess, but mirror Georgiou is a really, really annoying and unlikeable character. Haven't seen Section 31, as I have no interest in a story with her as protagonist.

 insaniak wrote:
Yeah, Michelle Yeoh is a goddess, but mirror Georgiou is a really, really annoying and unlikeable character. Haven't seen Section 31, as I have no interest in a story with her as protagonist.

Is she Space Hitler? Yes. But she's Hot Space Hitler and that's exactly the demographic of pathetic 'I can fix her' super nerd we're aiming for!

It's honestly maybe comment worthy that 'psycho evil insane hot lady for fans to mouthwater over' is a character archetype with wheels and somehow they still managed to not really nail it on this one :/

Mirror Georgiou was great in Disco S1. Certainly you could see how she seized and maintained the position of Empress.

It’s just what followed that did her in. And that’s before the truly woeful “who the hell wrote this, and who let them near the crayons in the first place?” drivel that was the Section 31 movie.

I’ve seen better fan fiction featuring Obvious Self Aggrandising Self Insert characters.


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But on a more positive note? I’ll be forever a bit disappointed we never got Mirror TNG.

The DS9 episodes are clearly the best Mirror Universe stories. No point denying that.

But I’d love to have seen Patrick Stewart as Evil Picard. Just think of the scenery that went unchewed by such a glorious performance. And of course, Mirror Riker, who I imagine would’ve basically been this guy.

Not all of Disco is bad. But when it is bad it is eye-rolling bad. My theory is that they actually read that old Mary Sue story and said "whoa, that was a cool story, let's make something like that".

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Mirror Georgiou was great in Disco S1. Certainly you could see how she seized and maintained the position of Empress.

It’s just what followed that did her in. And that’s before the truly woeful “who the hell wrote this, and who let them near the crayons in the first place?” drivel that was the Section 31 movie.

I’ve seen better fan fiction featuring Obvious Self Aggrandising Self Insert characters.

I think part of the frustration for me was that I would have absolutely loved to have seen more of the original Captain Georgiou. A series on her pre-Discovery would have been fantastic.

But on a more positive note? I’ll be forever a bit disappointed we never got Mirror TNG.

The DS9 episodes are clearly the best Mirror Universe stories. No point denying that.

But I’d love to have seen Patrick Stewart as Evil Picard. Just think of the scenery that went unchewed by such a glorious performance. And of course, Mirror Riker, who I imagine would’ve basically been this guy.

There was a novel called 'Dark Mirror' set during the Enterprise D era that was a little naff, but did a good job of extrapolating the mirror universe following the original Mirror Mirror episode. There's also a trilogy in the 'totally written by William Shatner' along with Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens series that totally ignores the set up from Dark Mirror, but is a pretty good read. Has Janeway and Spock as resistance leaders against a Klingon/Cardassian empire and a very evil Picard.

 insaniak wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Mirror Georgiou was great in Disco S1. Certainly you could see how she seized and maintained the position of Empress.

It’s just what followed that did her in. And that’s before the truly woeful “who the hell wrote this, and who let them near the crayons in the first place?” drivel that was the Section 31 movie.

I’ve seen better fan fiction featuring Obvious Self Aggrandising Self Insert characters.

I think part of the frustration for me was that I would have absolutely loved to have seen more of the original Captain Georgiou. A series on her pre-Discovery would have been fantastic.

But on a more positive note? I’ll be forever a bit disappointed we never got Mirror TNG.

The DS9 episodes are clearly the best Mirror Universe stories. No point denying that.

But I’d love to have seen Patrick Stewart as Evil Picard. Just think of the scenery that went unchewed by such a glorious performance. And of course, Mirror Riker, who I imagine would’ve basically been this guy.

There was a novel called 'Dark Mirror' set during the Enterprise D era that was a little naff, but did a good job of extrapolating the mirror universe following the original Mirror Mirror episode. There's also a trilogy in the 'totally written by William Shatner' along with Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens series that totally ignores the set up from Dark Mirror, but is a pretty good read. Has Janeway and Spock as resistance leaders against a Klingon/Cardassian empire and a very evil Picard.

Wanted to mention "Dark Mirror" as well. Read that 20 years ago or so and man, Troi is creepy in that one.

Academy E5

And we’ve a Sam-centric episode. Gives her a back story, and importantly, whilst the spirit of the character remains suitably unchanged? She’s not quite a “aren’t I quirky” annoying. Because sure, that is an indelible part of her character. A pretty much newborn sent to the Academy to help her people better understand organics, their ways, and why their ways are so.

And….shes only investigating the apparently unsolved disappearance of a particularly cool Captain! Ooooooh this is scratching some BIG itches

Also on the Space High School feel? On further thinking, which really hit me in the opening of this one? They’re doing a nice job of balancing those tropes with Trek tropes.

And, from what little we see of Cadets in earlier Trek shows? We see the same recklessness, overconfidence and exploration of their skills and abilities. Even the character which are purposefully abrasive jock divots? Are reminiscent of Picard and indeed Red Squad.

I’m now confident enough to declare that Star Trek Academy does not suck. The crayons of creativity appear to have been well and truly removed from the nasal cavities of the Discovery writers, been given a suitably wash, and are now in the hands of sensible people.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Not all of Disco is bad. But when it is bad it is eye-rolling bad. My theory is that they actually read that old Mary Sue story and said "whoa, that was a cool story, let's make something like that".

Make Burnham into separate characters/give some of vast array or abilities to other crew rather than "one super OP - I am the best at everything and I know it" and it would be fine and allow for some development with someone other than her.

Or have her find out she is not the best - and have consequences for her mistakes

Remember really enjoying the Mirror universe books for the most part but it is my fav part of Trek. The Hoshi Empress one was a bit weak though - she was such fun in the show

The trailer put me off Accademy hugely - so bad but friend said it was not awful.

This Burn thing - how long ago did it take place because if its recent then the lack of any advancement by the Trek races is wierd given that its 800 years since next Gen and thats the same span of time as the Tudor period to Next Gen - if its shortly after recent shows and only now recovering that makes sense.

I really can't get a bead on SFA. About a third like it, a third dislike, and a third are "eh, I guess". The only person in my irl circle that has seen just shook his head and said "no" when SFA came up.

Saru should have been the primary character in Disco.

 Mr Morden wrote:

This Burn thing - how long ago did it take place because if its recent then the lack of any advancement by the Trek races is wierd given that its 800 years since next Gen and thats the same span of time as the Tudor period to Next Gen - if its shortly after recent shows and only now recovering that makes sense.

A little over a hundred years. But because nobody knew what had caused it, everyone was reluctant to explore alternative warp technologies for fear of setting off another one.


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 Ahtman wrote:

Saru should have been the primary character in Disco.

He would have been a hard sell as Spock's secret adopted sister...

That and nobody would’ve believed you if you’d found the source and told people it was an alien throwing a tantrum.

 insaniak wrote:
He would have been a hard sell as Spock's secret adopted sister...

But not impossible!