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I would like to do a Super Hero supplement. Most backers are asking for historical eras, which can mostly all be covered in just the core rules, so I think I just need a couple of pages to talk about how that’s done. Weapon stats and skills aren’t going to change, like for example a sword in a fantasy game will do the same thing in the dark ages or the crusades. A lot of folks are asking for Cthulu / mythos, I may look into that as well.

What I’m hoping to do is get the more unique settings out of the way first, and then look at historical periods with smaller PDFs just listing different weapons and equipment and renaming some skills for fluff.

How about a Shadowrun-esque "Cyberpunk+fantasy+magic+gangs" supplement?

I would love that kind of thing, personally.

Also, I'd like to support you and the game, but I'm not keen on paying shipping from the USA. Would you consider a pdf-only pledge level? I know you said you were gonna put the core rules up for free, but...

You can get a shadowrun kind of game just by mixing the fantasy and sci fi rules Fantasy rules cover magic, enchanted items and multiple races. Sci Fi rules cover high tech gadgets and weaponry, and we're working on some vehicle rules too.

Right now the plan is to offer the core rules for free when the book is done, and then each setting supplement will be available as a separate PDF for something like $1 each.

I backed because I like the concept.

But estimated $10 shipping in the USA is really excessive. I’ve shipped rulebooks for under $4 media mail with tracking, and that’s me paying retail consumer rates. As a business, you would have access to better rates.

 Phobos wrote:
I backed because I like the concept.

But estimated $10 shipping in the USA is really excessive. I’ve shipped rulebooks for under $4 media mail with tracking, and that’s me paying retail consumer rates. As a business, you would have access to better rates.

Using Media Mail to send a non-educational book would be against the stated purposes of what media mail was designed for. Granted there are others have done this but that is not media mails intended purpose and not a good business practice for a non-educational company to utilize.

URL Reference
Another Reference

MEDIA MAIL SERVICE
Media Mail shipping is a cost-effective way to send educational materials. This service has restrictions on the type of media that can be shipped. Media Mail rates are limited to the items listed below:

Books (at least 8 pages).

Sound recordings and video recordings, such as CDs and DVDs.

Play scripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals, and music.

Printed music.

Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media.

Sixteen millimeters or narrower width films.

Printed objective test materials and their accessories.

Printed educational reference charts.

Loose-leaf pages and their binders consisting of medical information for distribution to doctors, hospitals, medical schools, and medical students

Media Mail packages may not contain advertising. Comic books do not meet this standard. Books may contain incidental announcements of other books and sound recordings may contain incidental announcements of other sound recordings. In accordance with standards in the Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service, Domestic Mail Manual (DMM), Section 170, Media Mail packages must have a delivery address and the sender’s return address and are subject to inspection by the Postal Service™. Upon such inspection, matter not eligible for the Media Mail rate may be assessed at the proper price and sent to the recipient postage due, or the sender may be contacted for additional postage.

...well I guess I just learned something new.

I always assumed media mail was for any kind of book. I know I've gotten (and sent) plenty of comics via media, but then again it's usually big hardcover collections.

Couldn't you argue a printed rulebook is there to better educate yourself on how to play the game though?

 Dark Severance wrote:

 Phobos wrote:
I backed because I like the concept.

But estimated $10 shipping in the USA is really excessive. I’ve shipped rulebooks for under $4 media mail with tracking, and that’s me paying retail consumer rates. As a business, you would have access to better rates.

Using Media Mail to send a non-educational book would be against the stated purposes of what media mail was designed for. Granted there are others have done this but that is not media mails intended purpose and not a good business practice for a non-educational company to utilize.

URL Reference
Another Reference

MEDIA MAIL SERVICE
Media Mail shipping is a cost-effective way to send educational materials. This service has restrictions on the type of media that can be shipped. Media Mail rates are limited to the items listed below:

Books (at least 8 pages).

Sound recordings and video recordings, such as CDs and DVDs.

Play scripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals, and music.

Printed music.

Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media.

Sixteen millimeters or narrower width films.

Printed objective test materials and their accessories.

Printed educational reference charts.

Loose-leaf pages and their binders consisting of medical information for distribution to doctors, hospitals, medical schools, and medical students

Media Mail packages may not contain advertising. Comic books do not meet this standard. Books may contain incidental announcements of other books and sound recordings may contain incidental announcements of other sound recordings. In accordance with standards in the Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service, Domestic Mail Manual (DMM), Section 170, Media Mail packages must have a delivery address and the sender’s return address and are subject to inspection by the Postal Service™. Upon such inspection, matter not eligible for the Media Mail rate may be assessed at the proper price and sent to the recipient postage due, or the sender may be contacted for additional postage.

Wrong.

Rulebooks are plainly within the scope of media mail and there is no requirement that they be educational.

Section 4.1.A of the second link you posted clearly states:

“Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at least eight printed pages, consiisting wholly of reading matter or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers‘ own advertising in display, classified, or editorial style.“

You would have a better argument stating that the inclusion of pictures renders them ineligible for media mail.

 Phobos wrote:
Wrong.

Rulebooks are plainly within the scope of media mail and there is no requirement that they be educational.

Section 4.1.A of the second link you posted clearly states:

“Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at least eight printed pages, consiisting wholly of reading matter or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books. Advertising includes paid advertising and the publishers‘ own advertising in display, classified, or editorial style.“

You would have a better argument stating that the inclusion of pictures renders them ineligible for media mail.

I am not wrong nor am I arguing or debating it, this was specifically told to me by my postmaster when I looked at media mail to ship our own books. It was one of the deciding factors for us to go to a mostly digital format. I merely quoted the website for references. There are discussions about it on the internet, even on BBG, and I have been part of Kickstarters that have had issues with it previously so I'm not talking about just my experiences.

Now there is always a caveat as media mail is up to the postmaster's discretion. From what I understand once it is mailed, they don't inspect the packages at another office, if they choose to do so it is done at that office. So you can talk to the postmaster who can make an exception. There are situations where they have made exceptions previously and then later changed their minds (this has happened for other Kickstarters who counted on Media Mail then had to increase shipping costs because it was denied). If they do inspect it though it is usually after you drop it off, then they will hang on to the packages until you pay the remaining difference of traditional postage which I have heard they charge first-class rate (haven't experienced that, just what others have said has happened). Some previous reasons were that the images were considered advertising by their standards, even though they weren't ads but were considered because they showed products that they sold.

I guesstimated $10 to be on the safe side. Will depend on the final weight plus distance and stuff. I think for just the rulebook alone it will probably be more like $7. Once I have the final page count I'll be able to figure out the weight and shipping prices then we'll launch the pledge manager.

Campaign just crossed the half way point, 2 weeks down, 2 weeks to go! As of right now we are just shy of our $15,000 stretch goal for the Zombie Apocalypse setting supplement.

We changed things up a bit with the stretch goals. We dropped the loot cards, and instead added in a Super Hero setting supplement at $19,000. If we hit that, we are considering adding another goal for a modern/near future supplement. The loot cards will still be produced, we are going to have them be released when the book is finished, as print-on-demand decks through Wargame Vault.

Hopefully later this week we'll be able to get the preview version of the sci fi setting supplement finished up

Yesterday we unlocked the Zombie Apocalypse stretch goal at $15,000.. Next up, Super Hero Setting Supplement at $19,000

Campaign ends on Sunday! We just passed the $17,000 mark and are zeroing in on the last stretch goal for the Super Hero supplement. This campaign has gone really great, looking forward to see how it does in the last couple of days

Last day! Campaign has really been moving these last couple of days. Really excited to see where it ends up

What supplement would cover mid-late 1900s weaponry, if at all?

It can be done with the universal weapons in the core rules, you can basically craft almost any kind of weapon you need. We do plan to have setting supplements for all sorts of time periods though, in time You may also be able to do it with the Modern & Near Future setting supplement, if we are able to unlock it. Many of the weapons will be similar, and you could simply omit the more high tech things.

Gotcha, I backed earlier when I saw how cheap the book is, I was just curious if it were possible to have time displaced WWII soldiers fighting in the Sci-fi/fantasy setting for example. I love that this system works with practically any 28mm models.

Edit: Congrats on hitting the last stretch goal! Looking forward to getting the full book.

Thanks and yeah we do hope to put together supplements for WWII and other time periods too, over time. The plan is to keep adding new content with PDF updates, and then possibly collecting them all into anthology books for people that prefer having books instead. We'll probably do print on demand books through Wargame Vault for those.

Really glad to hear you got everything funded! I have been a fan of the ruleset since it's earlier incarnation back around 2016, and I think even before final publication the preview of the current edition already has a couple of nice additions and/or clarifications.

Eager to see what all the unlocked supplements bring, as even the basic rules, especially with additions from the fantasy supplement, can pretty easily run anything from Legend of the 5 Rings-style samurai games with monks using magic, to Fallout-esque post-apocolyptic games where forces might have a suit of power armor or two.

So the pledge manager just came out for this a few days ago and there is a huge uproar about the shipping cost.

Some people are having to pay more for shipping than the cost of the actual item. So far the least I have seen for shipping is 70% of the cost of the item. ($18 to ship a normal backer pledge at $25) If you were an early bird and got a $20 pledge, the cost is then 90% of the book.

I have no idea who they are using for fulfillment or how they came up with these numbers. But I sell plenty on ebay and even having to pay counter rates, I can ship a 40K BRB for under $5 media rate or under $9 priority USPS CONUS. And there is no way on earth they are paying counter rates.

I'm not sure why media isn't an option at least for US customers.

I sent one of those massive 1000+ page Marvel Omnibus comics for about 5 bucks the other day. I can guarantee that was a heck of a lot bigger than this book will be!

I was going to pick a copy up myself, but unless shipping is reduced by 66% its comically over-priced, and I won't even entertain it. I've gotten small print run hardbacks like This is Not a Test shipped for $5

Kinda agree on this.. Want to support Necros however I can, but since I am PRETTY sure you can mail a Fixed Rate Priority Mail ENVELOPE for $7... $18 seems like he is being gouged somewheres.

-P

I think a lot of the issue with shipping costs is that they're using a 3rd party to warehouse, pack, and ship the stuff. So they're paying a "handling fee" on top of the raw shipping costs. Which kinda sucks all the way around, but I can understand how a small publisher may not be able to handle the warehousing and shipping.

 Valander wrote:
I think a lot of the issue with shipping costs is that they're using a 3rd party to warehouse, pack, and ship the stuff. So they're paying a "handling fee" on top of the raw shipping costs. Which kinda sucks all the way around, but I can understand how a small publisher may not be able to handle the warehousing and shipping.

That's understandable. but for a game that I don't know if I will even be able to convince my group to play. That adds a pretty steep price. effectively doubling my cost. Sadly I'm out unless I see this on a shelf at my local store.

Unfortunately our shipping costs are high. These are the prices given to us my our warehouse & shipping partner, like Valander mentioned. I don't like the prices either, but there isn't anything I can do about it. I don't have the facilities or the manpower to receive a 3000 pound shipment and pack and ship everything myself the cheapest way possible.

The reason the shipping price is also high is because the book is twice as big as we originally planned. Nearly 200 pages. This makes the book weigh over 2 pounds, and as far as the postal services around the world are concerned, that's a 3 pound shipment.

The book is also costing us nearly twice as much to produce because of all the extra content. The original price for the Kickstarter was $20-$25, with a $30 retail price. The retail price now is going to be $50.

We're always happy to offer refunds to anyone that's unhappy for any reason. Unfortunately the shipping price isn't going to go down at all, we lowered it as much as we possibly could, the reality is, it's a big heavy book.

Why did the book inflate so much? I thought the extra material was going to be used for a supplement (pdf?). Is this Kickstarter bloat or did you lose the opportunity to split off the separate projects?

I plan to pay the shipping for mine because I do want it and I want to support you, but I can't help feeling like this price hike takes your book from being the notable frontrunner to just another $50 shelf warmer. I really hope your game manages to succeed and thrive despite this.




PS: I can't believe how many people voted for hardcover books for a game they just killed by voting for hardcover books.

I think people just like to collect hardcover gaming books. I personally like hardcover for that reason, but softcover would have been much more practical.

The plan was always to include the new stuff into 1 book for the KS, and the newer rules have a lot more to them than before. It started out as just a carbon copy of my Blackwater Gulch rules, but now it's a much more robust system now. We had over 50 playtesters and they all seem to really enjoy it.

My plan is to switch to softcover later on after all of the hardcover books sell out. We'll also be doing print on demand books through Wargame Vault and trying to figure out a good way to do a nice online living rulebook where we keep adding new settings to it over time, and also make anthology books once we get enough new content for around 100 pages.

Will I be able to use the Blackwater Gulch minis with the rules in this book? Seems pretty obvious that they should, but since they were for a different game I thought I should ask.

The new shaman you showed off recently looks pretty awesome, like he might be useful in a few of your settings.

I mean I want to support you as well and the system looks cool, but seriously. I just checked USPS and shipping 3 pounds media mail from Norristown to Los Angeles is $3.79. A Priority Mail flat rate padded envelope is $8 (and they give you the envelope for free). Also, these are counter rates, so a shipping service or business rate would be discounted even further, therefore the actual cost would be less.

Whoever you guys contracted with is screwing you and it's costing you business and mindshare.

This just reaffirms to me that it was the right decision to get a refund back in may when the designer was trying to convince everyone that softcover books were more durable than hardcover and that they were doing backers a favor by switching over.