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geargutz wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


There will still be factions with weapons rendered useless. Either by -3/-4(yes those exists) OR BY HAVING BS5+! Why orks think they are only ones with BS5+?

Impossible to hit shouldn't exists period. It's not and never has been ork only issue. Pretty much every faction can suffer from that and now there will still be impossible to hit vs -2.

Demanding only orks have it is a) sign you would suck as game designer by making such a brain dead idiot game design decision b) entitlement. "orks were treated unfairly in the past. Time for others to pay for it by being treated unfairly in return". Generally most people I have met grew out of that attitude when they became 5 years old...

out of curiosity can you tell me the factions that have bs5 in mass. im not talking about a faction with maybe 2 or 3 bs5 units, but a majority. i imagine tyranids were like this (because they are a horde melee faction) but i just checked their index and majority are bs4.

it seems your trying to shame us for having wanted a uniquely orky solution to a problem that is fairly uniquely orky.

now i will to concede this point if there was another faction that has it as bad as us, but for now it seems your hating on these ork players for no reason.

edit: i dont have the demons index or codex with me, but they might apply, but most of their units are solely melee focused with no hopes in shooting. so i guess i will say to ignore melee only units when you calculate if a factions bs5 is the majority.

He is absolutely hating on Ork players for no reason. He does this fairly often - props himself on an imaginary high horse and puts other people down.

He's failed to grasp that what we're actually saying is that there is no need for the "fix" because the problem doesn't really exist.

I'd also be interested to hear how many and what the instances of -3 and -4 to hit are, how common they are and how much resource they cost a player to have (if they're indeed possible). Also keen to hear how many instances of another faction with primarily BS 5+ units? I can't think of another.

Nice Wartrike model. And good to see a teaser for Khorne and Slaanesh releases. LLV's rumors on the TGA forum (Khorne in December) may turn out to be correct. I'm looking forward to the end of 2018. Starting with all the Ork goodness.

Time for me to unpack the Boyz from their box in the cellar.

That Boss is boss. Too bad Speedfreekz only has two buggies, now it needs to have a good price and not the Warhammer Quest price band.

A box of squigs would be amazing, but I'd like them as a release for the rumoured Moonclan Grotz and Kommandozbas a 40k release instead.

Can anyone tell what the Ork'o'Lanterns are on the sides of the trike? Are they helmets?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Can anyone tell what the Ork'o'Lanterns are on the sides of the trike? Are they helmets?

They look like stylized attack squig statues, because obviously a bike boss can't have real squigs, but they are traditional. An actual ork kultur thing.

I'm gueesing they're nothing really. Just some sweet ork designs.. I thought that maybe some weapon was hidden in them but looking closer that doesn't seem to be the case. Also the text says: "Armed with boomsticks, jet-propulsion engines and a team of very angry Orks..." so unless there's a boomstick in there I'm guessing it's nothing.

However they say that the trike has a team of very angry orks but the guy on the back looks like a grot to me.. I guess they mean the big guy and the driver

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Guys, you missed the most important part:

Hooray! Orks are now more accurate than anyone else against Eldar

Dats Proper Orky dat is

I like it and the bikes and buggies look ace too.

I thought there was one of those as a helmet, but you guys are right. Two and they're screwed onto the bike. Might take a saw to it and make it a spare helmet for the boss. The other can ho to a biker.

I also noticed tiny support wheels at the back for the occasion of going REALLY fast wiff da rokkit engine and the trike doing a wheelie Reminds me of my brother's Tyco Dagger RC car. Now I'm off to find a new battery pack and charger for that beast, sigh.

 Binabik15 wrote:
I thought there was one of those as a helmet, but you guys are right. Two and they're screwed onto the bike. Might take a saw to it and make it a spare helmet for the boss. The other can ho to a biker.

I also noticed tiny support wheels at the back for the occasion of going REALLY fast wiff da rokkit engine and the trike doing a wheelie Reminds me of my brother's Tyco Dagger RC car. Now I'm off to find a new battery pack and charger for that beast, sigh.

They might look cool as helmets, or chop 'em in half and do metal jaws out of them. The trike might even look better without them (or with adding real squigs instead)

Or somehow turn them into Orky music guys - Deff Punkz!

So... Ork shotguns are called Boomsticks.

Nice

warboss klaw looks like it fires some grappling hook, bet that has some cool rules.

he's a bit basic looking, but i guess the idea is too much armour makes it go slowa.

 Latro_ wrote:
warboss klaw looks like it fires some grappling hook, bet that has some cool rules.

It's 8th Ed, so let's roll on the 8th Ed Special Rule Table:

1: Causes a Mortal Wound
2: Re-roll missed attacks of 1.
3: Re-roll failed wound rolls of 1.
4: Causes a Mortal Wound on a natural wound roll of 6.
5: Re-roll charge distance.
6: Causes a Mortal Wound, but worded slightly differently to result '1', and with a different special rule name.

dakkadakka isn't all that, its a nice to have most of the time assuming no mods:
30 shoota shots = five 6's
of those 5 more shots you get 1 - 2 more hits for a total of 11-12 instead of 10. hardly game breaking

It's not the extra hits that are the big thing (tho they are appreciated)

it's the fact that 6's hit irrespective of modifiers so no more swearing under your breath when you realise the stuff you wanted to shoot at would need 7s or 8s so you couldn't hit full stop

How often is that a thing? I only played with me orks a couple of times in 8th. In normal games aside from specific eldar armies i dont think i'v faced -2 to hit very often

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
warboss klaw looks like it fires some grappling hook, bet that has some cool rules.

It's 8th Ed, so let's roll on the 8th Ed Special Rule Table:

1: Causes a Mortal Wound
2: Re-roll missed attacks of 1.
3: Re-roll failed wound rolls of 1.
4: Causes a Mortal Wound on a natural wound roll of 6.
5: Re-roll charge distance.
6: Causes a Mortal Wound, but worded slightly differently to result '1', and with a different special rule name.

Roll a d6. On a 4+ causes D3 mortal wounds.
Roll 6 dice. Every 6 causes a mortal wound.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
warboss klaw looks like it fires some grappling hook, bet that has some cool rules.

It's 8th Ed, so let's roll on the 8th Ed Special Rule Table:

1: Causes a Mortal Wound
2: Re-roll missed attacks of 1.
3: Re-roll failed wound rolls of 1.
4: Causes a Mortal Wound on a natural wound roll of 6.
5: Re-roll charge distance.
6: Causes a Mortal Wound, but worded slightly differently to result '1', and with a different special rule name.

You might have missed
7. Causes any unsaved wound to result in a mortal wound.
If you have <new ork clan name> then add 1 to your dice roll.

 Latro_ wrote:
How often is that a thing? I only played with me orks a couple of times in 8th. In normal games aside from specific eldar armies i dont think i'v faced -2 to hit very often

Sadly, Allaitoc is by far the best trait for any eldar army, so you basically have the problem whenever playing any eldar army. For Alpha Legion and Ravenguard detachments, this is less of an issue, because they usually have more valuable targets than infantry and dreads/helbrutes.

 Latro_ wrote:
How often is that a thing? I only played with me orks a couple of times in 8th. In normal games aside from specific eldar armies i dont think i'v faced -2 to hit very often

Alaitoc, Ravenguard, dark eldar can all get -2(or more) with or without your co-operation(advance. And not advancing slows you down for sake of hitting on 6's so already bad)

tneva82 wrote:
There will still be factions with weapons rendered useless. Either by -3/-4(yes those exists) OR BY HAVING BS5+! Why orks think they are only ones with BS5+?

Please provide a list of factions with BS5+ on dedicated shooting units
Please provide a list of models than can archive -3/-4, that are not characters or once per game deals

Impossible to hit shouldn't exists period.

"period" means "because I say so". Don't take this personally, but I don't take your word for this.
As long as the army as a whole can shoot down the dodging, stealthy, blessed, super-sonic, smoked and flickering something at some point during the game, it's no different to a -1 to hit 3++ Magnus or a 28W 2+/4++ T8 knight.

It's not and never has been ork only issue. Pretty much every faction can suffer from that and now there will still be impossible to hit vs -2.

It's an ork issue when you can't shoot 60% of an eldar army because they brought hemlocks, rangers and wave serpents. Then they buff another unit you actually could shoot to -2 as well, put a stratagem on a second and you are fresh out of targets to shoot... with your entire army.

Demanding only orks have it is a) sign you would suck as game designer by making such a brain dead idiot game design decision

I am rubber you are glue... and insults don't make for a convincing argument.

b) entitlement. "orks were treated unfairly in the past. Time for others to pay for it by being treated unfairly in return". Generally most people I have met grew out of that attitude when they became 5 years old...

You might want to consider that some comments aren't meant to be taken seriously.

 Jidmah wrote:
I have never met anyone stacking more than -2 to hit on anything.
First of all, you simply shoot something else, as there is no army that can do this to more than one units that doesn't have character protection anyway.
Second, it's more efficient to spread the buffs to multiple units. Third, -2 is enough to make most 4+ weapons useless already.

So, not a real problem.

Yeah but wasnt this the problem with invisibility? Hey just shoot something else. Yeah but invisible thinderwolves are right here. Competitive gaming stacked -2 on key units to increase their longevity. Also the problem lies, in the circumstance where ork assault weapons couldnt fire at a -1 unit because of the -1 on the advance.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Can anyone tell what the Ork'o'Lanterns are on the sides of the trike? Are they helmets?

I'd wager some kind of orky Air Intake. There is a very similar maw-looking setup on one of the Warbike models, directly in front of (a presumably) air cooled engine.

mhalko1 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I have never met anyone stacking more than -2 to hit on anything.
First of all, you simply shoot something else, as there is no army that can do this to more than one units that doesn't have character protection anyway.
Second, it's more efficient to spread the buffs to multiple units. Third, -2 is enough to make most 4+ weapons useless already.

So, not a real problem.

Yeah but wasnt this the problem with invisibility? Hey just shoot something else. Yeah but invisible thinderwolves are right here. Competitive gaming stacked -2 on key units to increase their longevity. Also the problem lies, in the circumstance where ork assault weapons couldnt fire at a -1 unit because of the -1 on the advance.

Let's see, the most common offender of this are eldar.
Their sources of -1 to hit are:
- Allaitoc (shooting from outside of 12")
- Unit has it (Most common ones: hemlocks, pathfinders, wave serpents)
- Relics (up to two characters)
- Conceal (infantry/bikes, shooting only, warpcharge 6, can't be cast by hemlocks)
- Stratagem (infantry/units with FLY, 1CP per phase)

So, without spending any additional resources, you could have 2 characters, your troops, your transports and your fliers all with -2 hit. Then, you can then have two additional -1 to hits that can both go on infantry or jetbike (including characters) to make them -4.
One (non-named) character with -4 or a unit of pathfinders with -4 might be useful in corner cases, but neither is going to do well against mortal wounds or auto-hitting weapons, let alone a unit charging them. So it's more efficient to spread these buffs around to leave no good targets to shoot and force your opponent to waste their shots.

Invisibility was immunity to both assault and shooting, with no way to get around it. Also, usually layered with re-rollable saves. Most -1 to hit things available only work against shooting. There are also close to no units that are as powerful as a 7th edition death star that also have a way for them to get -2 to hit.

30 shootas = 5 6 results? what are you on?
I always have a 30squad of shootas w/ 3 bigshootas as a frontline unit, they can shoot things while advancing (assuming no -1's around) unlike the slugga boyz and since theyre in front theyre gonna get lit first instead of the actual melee threat behind them.
I roll 6's like mad with them. They still cause roughly as many hits as a 5man marine squad for me. Considering they are ONLY hitting on 6s when i do this, thats pretty dang good. Especially since the shooting is an afterthought, theyre still good in melee.

They might be thinking of sluggas, with only one shot each?

I think a 6 should always be a hit, regardless of modifiers, across the board simply because –

If a flamer can auto hit a flying, supersonic jetfighter, then standard shooting should also be able to hit it on a 6.

As for -2+ being super common, you only see it on Alaitoc flyers and Alaitoc Rangers naturally. In order to get to -2 on any other unit, you are required to spend 2 CP on a stratagem or a psychic power targeting a single infantry or biker unit.

In addition to this, you can get a -1 to hit from a relic. Which, only comes into play if you mess up or are in combat (at which point, it is only a -1 to hit).
Or a -1 to hit from shooting from a relic, again, which only comes into play if you decide you don’t want to screen the character.

So, at most, you’ll be looking at 0-3 flyers with at least a -2 to hit, a couple of Ranger units, again with -2 to hit, and then 1 other unit with -2 to hit via the use of a stratagem. I personally can’t remember the last time I saw conceal being run over protect/jinx and quicken.

Sure, 1 flyer can easily get to -3 to hit with the stratagem, but, there are other targets on the table for you to pick.

That, and as Orks, you’re likely going to be within 12” of the target anyway with all the advancing and wanting to charge etc, so, you’re already negating the -1 to hit penalty just through army play style.

Outside of Eldar, you’re essentially looking at a Raven Guard Dreadnought popping smoke to get the -2 to hit.

I think the "sixes always hit" thing should be ork-specific. It's flavorful and honestly, ork shooting vs eldar reminds me of ork "planning" vs necrons/imhotek... they should be the foil for the arrogant elder races

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
warboss klaw looks like it fires some grappling hook, bet that has some cool rules.

It's 8th Ed, so let's roll on the 8th Ed Special Rule Table:

1: Causes a Mortal Wound
2: Re-roll missed attacks of 1.
3: Re-roll failed wound rolls of 1.
4: Causes a Mortal Wound on a natural wound roll of 6.
5: Re-roll charge distance.
6: Causes a Mortal Wound, but worded slightly differently to result '1', and with a different special rule name.

Hopefully we get something a little more innovative -
1. Add another D6 for the Wartrike when attempting a charge for a unit hit by this weapon in the proceeding shooting phase.
2. Unit can only move half speed if hit by this weapon in shooting phase.
3. Unit must roll off to leave combat (please, pretty please GW!). A stratagem could allow each unit to add Strength to the roll.
4. After you have successfully hit an enemy unit with this weapon you may immediately move that unit up to 3" as long as it ends it's move closer to the firer.