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the_scotsman wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i cant think of any model made over 10 years ago that by todays standards still looks great.
Most of them look like a ton of shortcuts were made to make casting easier. Which on one hand makes sense but when the model looks like hot garbage as a result....

my 25 year old farseer is far and away my favorite Eldar model ever made.
Most of the time for me when I'm looking at an older model what impresses me is the design, and I'm much more apt to forgive scale quirks or other small flaws than I am to forgive a shiny new model with a really lazy, uninspired design overall. Sure, there are old models that get very strange with age, but I think there are also gems hidden in the old stuff.

To be fair though, and I used to collect them so I think I'm relatively well informed, Eldar models have aged really well. Much to the chagrin of the player base because it's a large part of the reason so many of the sculpts haven't changed for so long. I was amazed they're still using the 2nd Ed Warp Spiders?! I still have the exarch and he looks awesome, despite his age and metal constitution.

I think a bunch of the older metal models look pretty good. Some of the early plastics look pretty bad. I think that the plastic ork boyz have aged well because orks have pretty blocky and exaggerated features in the art which translated well to the early plastics.

I also think that while there are a lot of new scultps that are extremely detailed and well done from a technical standpoint, they don't actually look that great to me. A lot of the new Death Guard stuff is that way for me. I can see how the models are very well done, but they're just not really my style.

To bring it back to orks/orcs/orruks, I've got some AoS Ironjawz sprues sitting next to me. The Brutes are newer than the 'Ardboyz, and much more detailed, but in some ways to me they feel a little overdone if that makes sense.

The 'Ardboyz are just the old Black Orc kit. They're nothing new.

The Brutes look great though. I have some of them. I always look at them as Snake Bites in 'Mega-Armour'.

 Nazrak wrote:
I think the mistake that quite a lot of people make is to assume that just because they're only interested in the most hyper-competitive, point-efficient method of choosing which units they want to play games with, that's the only way anyone else plays 40K too. "Bad" rules ≠ nobody buying the kit at all. Sure, there are going to be some outlying instances of competitive players buying multiples of the same kit because it's the "best" one, but this is far from the way most people play 40K. I think forums like this one skew people's perception of that quite heavily.

This. Most people on dakka talk like theyre hyper competitive ITC only tournament meta players. Not everyone is, hell ill be those players overall are the minority. Most of the people talking about meta builds and units and such probably dont even play in tournaments.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Stop arguing about the biology of a made-up race of angry green fungus hooligans.

Daz "race of angry green lichen hooligans", ya git

Concerning the kit, I prefer the plastics of the boyz, lootas/burnas, and stormboyz. I think the goofiness suits the orks perfectly. Furthermore, as I am discovering building KTs for a 3rd party, they are highly interchangeable as marines used to be (and still are).
If plastic Kommandos and Tankbustas come out I could be interested but I am not sold on the aesthetic of the orks in the new buggy/trakks, albeit the models as are whole are amazing.

I dislike the Ironjaws. Something is off with the proportions, I cannot put my finger on it.

 Billagio wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I think the mistake that quite a lot of people make is to assume that just because they're only interested in the most hyper-competitive, point-efficient method of choosing which units they want to play games with, that's the only way anyone else plays 40K too. "Bad" rules ≠ nobody buying the kit at all. Sure, there are going to be some outlying instances of competitive players buying multiples of the same kit because it's the "best" one, but this is far from the way most people play 40K. I think forums like this one skew people's perception of that quite heavily.

This. Most people on dakka talk like theyre hyper competitive ITC only tournament meta players. Not everyone is, hell ill be those players overall are the minority. Most of the people talking about meta builds and units and such probably dont even play in tournaments.

What I've found odd is that if you admit to not being a hyper competitive ITC only tournament meta player your opinion on balance for some reason is seen as null and void? In addition the discussion here seems to focus almost solely on statistics and mathematics that often serve very little comparison to in-game results.

Like I remember in the tactics thread trying to discuss the benefits of Warbikes but people wouldn't even entertain it. As if they were so shockingly bad that they had no place in a competitive discussion, which I find bizarre. Surely the worse the unit is, the more interesting the tactical discussion around it, as you try to find a particular niche for said unit?

 Billagio wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I think the mistake that quite a lot of people make is to assume that just because they're only interested in the most hyper-competitive, point-efficient method of choosing which units they want to play games with, that's the only way anyone else plays 40K too. "Bad" rules ≠ nobody buying the kit at all. Sure, there are going to be some outlying instances of competitive players buying multiples of the same kit because it's the "best" one, but this is far from the way most people play 40K. I think forums like this one skew people's perception of that quite heavily.

This. Most people on dakka talk like theyre hyper competitive ITC only tournament meta players. Not everyone is, hell ill be those players overall are the minority. Most of the people talking about meta builds and units and such probably dont even play in tournaments.

I remember my first time at LVO about three years ago. I was told by other players to prepare for a beat down, that the competition would be insane.

My first match was against Carnifexes and Hormagaunts. 7th Edition.
My third match was against a bunch of necron warriors and their moving pyramids. No bikes, no decurion.

So yeah, I think a lot of people blow it out of proportion.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I think the mistake that quite a lot of people make is to assume that just because they're only interested in the most hyper-competitive, point-efficient method of choosing which units they want to play games with, that's the only way anyone else plays 40K too. "Bad" rules ≠ nobody buying the kit at all. Sure, there are going to be some outlying instances of competitive players buying multiples of the same kit because it's the "best" one, but this is far from the way most people play 40K. I think forums like this one skew people's perception of that quite heavily.

This. Most people on dakka talk like theyre hyper competitive ITC only tournament meta players. Not everyone is, hell ill be those players overall are the minority. Most of the people talking about meta builds and units and such probably dont even play in tournaments.

What I've found odd is that if you admit to not being a hyper competitive ITC only tournament meta player your opinion on balance for some reason is seen as null and void? In addition the discussion here seems to focus almost solely on statistics and mathematics that often serve very little comparison to in-game results.

Like I remember in the tactics thread trying to discuss the benefits of Warbikes but people wouldn't even entertain it. As if they were so shockingly bad that they had no place in a competitive discussion, which I find bizarre. Surely the worse the unit is, the more interesting the tactical discussion around it, as you try to find a particular niche for said unit?

Yeah its so weird. I fething love warbosses, but according to dakka I shouldnt take any HQ besides weirdboys. Too be fair units like warbikes probably are pretty terrible....if theyre up against a competitive tournament list....but not everyone plays against those in 100% of their games.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Like I remember in the tactics thread trying to discuss the benefits of Warbikes but people wouldn't even entertain it. As if they were so shockingly bad that they had no place in a competitive discussion, which I find bizarre. Surely the worse the unit is, the more interesting the tactical discussion around it, as you try to find a particular niche for said unit?

Eh, bad example. Warbikes in their current state are so shockingly bad that they have no place in a game you are trying to win, tactics would revolve around convincing your opponent to not shoot them. Not every unit has a niche - especially not if it's sub-par at everything it does. And yes, I have tried them.

A better analogy would have been ork boyz vs footslogging nobz or KMK vs dakkajets. At the very least a unit must be able to perform it's primary role, quite a few entries in the ork index cannot do that - which means they fail independently of your competitive level.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The 'Ardboyz are just the old Black Orc kit. They're nothing new.

The Brutes look great though. I have some of them. I always look at them as Snake Bites in 'Mega-Armour'.

Yeah, I said that Brutes are newer than 'Ardboyz. I guess I must have implied I thought they were new somehow. I probably shouldn't try to write anything before my morning coffee has kicked in.

I picked up the Brutes to convert into Meganobz. The 'Ardboyz I plan on mixing in with the more armored looking 40k nobz for Nobz units, while I'm going to use the less armored looking 40k nobz as Boss Nobz for Boyz to represent the 4+ and 6+ respectively. I'm waiting for the codex and the rest of the releases to come out before putting any more work into modelling though.

 Jidmah wrote:
You can often tell because edges and corners are not as sharp as they are on GW's models, flat surfaces have patterns on them, damage in places where excess material was removed and certain details are less defined.

A good paintjob can hide those flaws, but if you know what to look for, you can often tell whether the model is a GW plastic model or a recast.

This is technically true, in that I've seen some recasts people bought from the very, very, very cheapest and lowest quality sources, then did nothing to the model except a basic rattlecan & 3-colour job on it which are fairly obvious.

In reality, the vast, vast, utterly vast majority of the time anyone who looks at a prepped and normally painted model and says "I can tell that's a recast" is either lying or delusional. Hell the vast majority of the time when someone looks at an un-prepped, un-painted model and claims they can tell it's a recast they're spouting bollocks - I got accused of owning a recast Titan Techpriest from FW last year when I took it along to a painting thing a local group were doing, and the reality is the wee crawly-bumlick making the accusation was just too young to remember when FW sometimes used a cream coloured resin. And I've seen similar nonsense before, people donning their GW Volunteer Copyright Policeman uniform and getting out the handcuffs because they can apparently recall the exact hexidecimal colour value of the grey dye FW use in their resin and have spotted a model they insist is "too light" or "too dark", which is a farce given batches will naturally vary over time.

The only way you can ever conclusively know a model is a recast unless it's naked of paint and so hideously malformed it couldn't pass even FW's standards of quality control, is if the owner admits it's a recast, and this ludicrous McCarthyist attitude that's growing up around the issue in some circles is ridiculous. That's not an endorsement of recasting, just a condemnation of the kneejerk "That model has slightly more pronounced mold lines than I personally had on my model, BURN THE WITCH!" attitude that seems to be growing more commonplace.

Maybe the Buggy Silhouette will look like this:

So it's getting pretty late in the UK. I guess no Orktober update today? I was looking forward to seeing what the new vehicle looked like.

I've actually been going to bed early the last few nights so I can wake up extra-early to see what they've posted before heading to work.

Just spotted the new Ork buggy (squig thing):



It's behind the Nob biker. You can see the squig shaped/coloured bonnet.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
So it's getting pretty late in the UK. I guess no Orktober update today? I was looking forward to seeing what the new vehicle looked like.

I guess the Facebook crowd didn't guess correctly

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
So it's getting pretty late in the UK. I guess no Orktober update today? I was looking forward to seeing what the new vehicle looked like.

I guess the Facebook crowd didn't guess correctly

Turns out to be a new Primaris Marines flying Trukk.

Dunno if anyone posted this yet, but its interesting.

https://spikeybits.com/2018/10/40k-orks-release-date-product-shortage-rumors.html

To pile more on more information, we’ve also been hearing that GW store employees reportedly aren’t allowed to take off October 13th and 20th. What could be happening on those days? Could Speed Freeks be dropping on the 13th and finally, the Ork codex on the 20th? We can make some educated guesses but for now, we don’t know for sure.

One thing to remember is that historically, GW doesn’t allow their store employees to take the day off on the days that big releases drop. It sounds like we’ve got some exciting things ahead in Orktober!

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 nflagey wrote:
GW should make a "build your own ork vehicle" kit with pieces that can be assembled any way you want to build super customizable vehicle ... the ork way

this is basically what i tried to do some custom rules for back in 7th when they initially took our looted wagon away.
"Build A Tank Workshop" lol
basically it was just a mass of different chassis to base it off of (literally any vehicle) and then add crap to it.

That would be cool if it turns out to be true.

A make your own vehicle "buggy" everything from the standard buggy to these new ones in the single codex listing with full kustomisation. This would be cool if true. That would mean the names for these new buggies may be just for Speed Freeks, if true.

That might cover the rumour we heard earlier about most customisable kit, really incorrect most customisable listing, maybe????

 davou wrote:
Dunno if anyone posted this yet, but its interesting.

https://spikeybits.com/2018/10/40k-orks-release-date-product-shortage-rumors.html

To pile more on more information, we’ve also been hearing that GW store employees reportedly aren’t allowed to take off October 13th and 20th. What could be happening on those days? Could Speed Freeks be dropping on the 13th and finally, the Ork codex on the 20th? We can make some educated guesses but for now, we don’t know for sure.

One thing to remember is that historically, GW doesn’t allow their store employees to take the day off on the days that big releases drop. It sounds like we’ve got some exciting things ahead in Orktober!

We already know what releases are on the 13th because the pre-orders were announced on Sunday. Speed Freeks will probably be unveiled this Sunday though, and out on the 20th.

Looks like the buggies can be built with twin big-shottas (I think) so they are proper replacements for the normal buggies. Hopefully they have the options for skorchas/rokkits in the boxes too.

Nah that's just the special gun for the boomdakka snazzwagon.

 davou wrote:
Dunno if anyone posted this yet, but its interesting.

https://spikeybits.com/2018/10/40k-orks-release-date-product-shortage-rumors.html

To pile more on more information, we’ve also been hearing that GW store employees reportedly aren’t allowed to take off October 13th and 20th. What could be happening on those days? Could Speed Freeks be dropping on the 13th and finally, the Ork codex on the 20th? We can make some educated guesses but for now, we don’t know for sure.

One thing to remember is that historically, GW doesn’t allow their store employees to take the day off on the days that big releases drop. It sounds like we’ve got some exciting things ahead in Orktober!

The 20th is the 500th Store Celebration and the 13th is Armies on Parade.

I'd be super upset and also find it super hilarious if the whole month is just hyping up Orks only to have an "ambush" release of GSC instead.

We got a couple of boxsets this year (Tooth and Claw and Wake the Dead) that relate to events happening on Vigilus, where we also know Orks Speed Freaks have been spotted.
"Wake the Dead" was just released while "Tooth and Claw" was released mid-August ... however, no rumors of any box set that would include Orks yet?
Wake the Dead is definitely not the end of the story, as stated on Warhammer-Community:

Wake the Dead is a new battlebox that continues the story of Vigilus

It seems logical to me that the factions Warhammer-Community mentioned in their posts about Vigilus would each be involved in some box set ... so are we going to see an Ork vs Black Legion box set in the near future? Or is Speed Freaks supposed to be developing the story on Vigilus from the viewpoint of the Orks?

Vigilus is both the gateway to the beleaguered “Imperium Nihilus” and a citadel against the Black Legion, Orks and all manner of threats from without.

One of the largest conflicts has emerged on Vigilus, with Warlord Krooldakka’s invasion giving rise to a Speedwaaagh!, a Genestealer Cult insurrection and, more recently, an Aeldari invasion as well. The escalating conflict has seen more and more Orks drawn to the sector in search of a good bust-up.

 nflagey wrote:
It seems logical to me that the factions Warhammer-Community mentioned in their posts about Vigilus would each be involved in some box set ... so are we going to see an Ork vs Black Legion box set in the near future? Or is Speed Freaks supposed to be developing the story on Vigilus from the viewpoint of the Orks?

The Speed Freeks box is supposed to be set on Vigilus. The narrative being that psychic forcefields are keeping the orks out of the cities, so they've started racing each other around the wastelands.

I wouldn't be surprised if Speed Freeks is the only* ork box for Vigilus for the time being. They might keep the planet around for a long time, making it a new major location like Cadia or Armageddon. I don't know for certain we won't get another box in the style of Forgebane or Wake the Dead with Orks vs X, but I'm not getting my hopes up either.
*Krogskull's Boyz for Kill Team is on Vigilus as well.

That said, we might get a new Start Collecting box.

 ceorron wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 nflagey wrote:
GW should make a "build your own ork vehicle" kit with pieces that can be assembled any way you want to build super customizable vehicle ... the ork way

this is basically what i tried to do some custom rules for back in 7th when they initially took our looted wagon away.
"Build A Tank Workshop" lol
basically it was just a mass of different chassis to base it off of (literally any vehicle) and then add crap to it.

That would be cool if it turns out to be true.

A make your own vehicle "buggy" everything from the standard buggy to these new ones in the single codex listing with full kustomisation. This would be cool if true. That would mean the names for these new buggies may be just for Speed Freeks, if true.

That might cover the rumour we heard earlier about most customisable kit, really incorrect most customisable listing, maybe????

Uuh community post already told these will be in codex...

Less wishlisting, more looking what gw officially tells please!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
I'd be super upset and also find it super hilarious if the whole month is just hyping up Orks only to have an "ambush" release of GSC instead.

The ones that are atm in development and thus coming next year?

ManTube wrote:
Nah that's just the special gun for the boomdakka snazzwagon.

No it is not!!



It is missing the two other barrels.

Unless it's a conversion.

 ceorron wrote:
It is missing the two other barrels.

Unless it's a conversion.

Or you're just bad at understanding perspective.

If it's on a Snazzwagon, it's probably a Snazzgun. In that case it can look like whatever.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 ceorron wrote:
It is missing the two other barrels.

Unless it's a conversion.

Or you're just bad at understanding perspective.

no need for insults or overeations.
but i will agree its the same model and the same gun, its just the low resolution and the different angle makes it look different,

at this point i dont expect much or any at all custom weapons foe the new buggies. its the problem with current GW, they are doing more and more "single build" models, removing customization.
i think the main reason for this is to better balance the game. you dont need to consider what points all the guns on a model cost is they are common among the whole faction, if they are unique then the model can be pointed without fear of changing the balance of another model. it kinds sucks, but there is a hidden hobby benefit. if the war gear barely changes then doing "counts as" isnt held down so much with trying to keep the model wysiwug. do the buggy in question form the kit of a truck and attach a big dakka like gun on the back and call it the new buggy, and your opponent wont have to be afraid that your hiding what upgrades you did amoungst all the barrels since the load out never changes. (at least im forcing myself to look at the bright side of this situation, and i like customizing vehicles )

most of the recent models from GW are single builds with very few option, they separated the profiles of the warglaive and helverin mini knights though they have the exact same base body (the only option i think is the gun up top), but if they do this they can easily change the points of one without fearing the other gets changed as well.