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 Jidmah wrote:
@PinaColada, thanks for doing the comparison, take an exalt.

The trike is worth it just for the speed waaagh! alone. Even a battlewagon has a decent chance to make a first turn with the ramming stratagem, and our dreadmob players finally got the HQ the deserved - nauts, deff dreads and kanz will have no problems getting into combat turn 2.

I hope we have a decent answer to T8 vehicles though, none of the buggies can do that.

It's the gearcheck any list must pass to be able to compete in tournaments due to imperial knights and tank columns, and being able to crack heavy armored targets has always been a major weakness for orks.

How do you figure every other book deals with massed T8? Specifically we are talking knights as russes are MUCH easier to counter. There is a reason why Knights are stomping everything and need to be nerfed in CA. There isn't a single army that comes to mind besides obviously knights themselves that can hard counter knights without tailoring to an absurd level.

Aside form IK I am not seeing all the massed t8 threats out there either.

Sorry if this information was already posted

https://spikeybits.com/2018/10/ork-codex-rules-wartrike-stompa-stratagems-spotted.html

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
2cp to make a boyz unit 5+ save...really?
'Ard Boyz has always been a 4+....wtf....waste of cp...

We'll see how it plays out. 210 points + 2 CP for 30 boyz at 5+, compared to (7th ed) 300 points for 30 boyz at 4+.

The last game I played had 20CP, and I never got below 8 during the game (I forgot a few chances to reroll, but still.)

The question I have now is it worth 6CP to have 90 of them, or even 8 to get 120. A full brigade of 180 4+ blood axes, backed up by painboyz, would be an interesting test. Not sure the opponent would like it so much.

what the gak? 20cp? how on earth did you do that with a decent list?
Or was it just multiple battalions with boyz/warboss/painboyz? Im not a fan of green tide so i tend to not spam boyz.

Cheap grots make battalion access pretty simple. But to get to 20 he would need at least 1 brigade which is another can of....something lol...

PiñaColada wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/18/18th-oct-building-a-speed-freeks-armygw-homepage-post-2/

New article up on the community page

They say the list comes up to about 2000 points, PL so that checks out. Maybe there's a way to extrapolate the worth of some of the units by it still though?

A Trukk is 3PL instead of 5 from the index, that's a nice start
Nobz 7PL instead of 11
Nob with banner is the same
Warbikers are 4PL instead of 5
The Morkanaut is 15PL down from 18
Big Mek down to 4PL from 5
Boyz are 4PL down from 5 (don't know what's up with this)
The Kustom Boosta-blasta, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakka Scrapjet are 5PL
The Shokkjump Dragsta & Deffkilla Wartrike are 6 PL
The Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy is 7PL (WHAT the hell GW?)

But but I thought they raised the cost of boyz to sell buggies?! There couldn't possibly be a nuanced explanation for it!

Boys may have gone up while their upgrades went down, have to wait and see.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Boys may have gone up while their upgrades went down, have to wait and see.

Boyz don't have upgrades. Nob does, I guess, but I don't think it would be enough to offset a boyz price hike. But I guess we will have to see what happens.

really the only upgrade that could go down is Big Shoota (currently 12ppm) or the PK could go down again (13pts atm i think?)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
really the only upgrade that could go down is Big Shoota (currently 12ppm) or the PK could go down again (13pts atm i think?)

12ppm on a big shoota is definitely way too much. A Heavy B is better in every way but wepaon type and is 8. I would bet the BS goes down to 5 or 6 points. Can't boys take rockets? Maybe they went down.

Oh yeah they can take rokkits too, i forget about that one cause i never do it with general boy groups. Actually dont even bother with the heavy weapons on boyz to begin with.

But yeah the general BigShoota is 6pts, the 12ppm is counting the boy so they either made the Bigshoota cheaper or we got 13ppm bigshootas now.
On a wagon theyre 6pts each.
i do think they need to drop though. They really dont do much more than shootas, even with the reach.

Okay, so let's have a look at this from what GW said a while ago (20pts is basically 1PL) I put ??? when I have no idea what they put on the unit.



A Trukk is 3PL = 60pts - down from 82pts

Nobz 7PL = 140pts - ???

Warbikers are 4PL = 80pts - ???

The Morkanaut is 15PL = 300pts - down from 320pts (maybe 340)

Big Mek down to 4PL =80pts- down from ???

Boyz are 4PL =80pts - down from ???

The Kustom Boosta-blasta, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakka Scrapjet are 5PL = 100pts

The Shokkjump Dragsta & Deffkilla Wartrike are 6 PL = 120pts -

The Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy is 7PL = 140pts

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/18/18th-oct-building-a-speed-freeks-armygw-homepage-post-2/

No points yet, but most of the Power Levels went down.

Nauts 18-15
Trukks 5-3
Nobz 11-7
Boyz 5-4
Bikes 5-4

Could just be an adjustment to the PL-Points ration, but it's promising. Would put the Trukk at about 60, where I think it should be.

Edit: Fixed Nobz
Edit: Ninja'd!
Edit: My god what a terrible list. Or, is it...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i do think they need to drop though. They really dont do much more than shootas, even with the reach.

Against T4 targets they average twice as many wounds as a shoota. Obviously not worth 6 points, which would pay for a whole extra shoota boy (at current prices) which gives you almost as much firepower plus makes the unit harder to kill and offers close combat ability. 2-3 points would probably be fair, but I suspect GW will go with 4-5 points.

 beerbeard wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/18/18th-oct-building-a-speed-freeks-armygw-homepage-post-2/

No points yet, but most of the Power Levels went down.

Nauts 18-15
Trukks 5-3
Nobz 7-5
Boyz 5-4
Bikes 5-4

Could just be an adjustment to the PL-Points ration, but it's promising. Would put the Trukk at about 60, where I think it should be.

It can be anywhere from like 50 to 69 points, but the also counts the average of the upgrades of which rokkits are one. So it's probably 60 bare maybe 55.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
2cp to make a boyz unit 5+ save...really?
'Ard Boyz has always been a 4+....wtf....waste of cp...

We'll see how it plays out. 210 points + 2 CP for 30 boyz at 5+, compared to (7th ed) 300 points for 30 boyz at 4+.

The last game I played had 20CP, and I never got below 8 during the game (I forgot a few chances to reroll, but still.)

The question I have now is it worth 6CP to have 90 of them, or even 8 to get 120. A full brigade of 180 4+ blood axes, backed up by painboyz, would be an interesting test. Not sure the opponent would like it so much.

what the gak? 20cp? how on earth did you do that with a decent list?
Or was it just multiple battalions with boyz/warboss/painboyz? Im not a fan of green tide so i tend to not spam boyz.

lol it wasn't decent...brigade + battalion, mini-tide list. A true GT could do the same and be fairly competitive, though...5hq, several boyz units and grots, with minimized fast, heavy and elite.

 Red Corsair wrote:
How do you figure every other book deals with massed T8? Specifically we are talking knights as russes are MUCH easier to counter. There is a reason why Knights are stomping everything and need to be nerfed in CA. There isn't a single army that comes to mind besides obviously knights themselves that can hard counter knights without tailoring to an absurd level.

Most armies have some kind of high strength high damage weapons to down them or at least good amounts of mortal wounds to help with that. If your entire army is shooting a knight, and it doesn't die, you are going to have a problem.
I'm thinking of weapons in the power range of a lascannon or deff dread close combat weapon, not of one in the league of a volcano lance or volcano cannon (Castellan/Shadowsword main guns).

Russes are big problem for armies that cannot counter them. Index orks are such an army, since you basically need two units of tank bustas to kill one of them, and those tankbustas will be gone by turn 2.
There is no other way to "handle" russes during the first two turns besides shooting them.

Then there are baneblades, PBC, leviathans and repulsors, and CA may add any number of further T8 models you regularly see on tabletops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Boys may have gone up while their upgrades went down, have to wait and see.

Boyz don't have upgrades. Nob does, I guess, but I don't think it would be enough to offset a boyz price hike. But I guess we will have to see what happens.

Boyz can have:
- a PK for 13
- a Kombi-Skorcha for 19
- 3 rokkits for 36

Plenty of potential for points/pl reduction, especially if they axe all non-model options, which means no more kombi weapon on the nob.

Nevermind, couldn't see very well on my phone

 Daedalus81 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/18/18th-oct-building-a-speed-freeks-armygw-homepage-post-2/

New article up on the community page

They say the list comes up to about 2000 points, PL so that checks out. Maybe there's a way to extrapolate the worth of some of the units by it still though?

A Trukk is 3PL instead of 5 from the index, that's a nice start
Nobz 7PL instead of 11
Nob with banner is the same
Warbikers are 4PL instead of 5
The Morkanaut is 15PL down from 18
Big Mek down to 4PL from 5
Boyz are 4PL down from 5 (don't know what's up with this)
The Kustom Boosta-blasta, Boomdakka Snazzwagon, Megatrakka Scrapjet are 5PL
The Shokkjump Dragsta & Deffkilla Wartrike are 6 PL
The Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy is 7PL (WHAT the hell GW?)

But but I thought they raised the cost of boyz to sell buggies?! There couldn't possibly be a nuanced explanation for it!

It's almost as if PL hasn't jack all to do with anything. This tells us literally nothing, and I'm willing to bet that GW has just given up on PL entirely.

Is the squigbuggy really 7 pl? Not sure I want one now.

From Facebook:

Warhammer 40,000 Well, guys - As you have spotted, some of the Ork models we've shown recently are on larger bases than they were previously supplied with.

As we have with several other armies in recent years, we're taking this opportunity to move some of our infantry models to bases more fitting to the size of the model - in most cases with Orks, to the newer 32mm base.

We've had a few people ask what the "official" base size is.
The answer is, that's it's both; You can use your models on whatever base they were provided with, or any base that model has been shown on in any of our Warhammer 40,000 publications.

If you have older models, you are welcome to rebase them if you like, and not if you don't - both base sizes are considered perfectly official. You don't need to go ripping the bases from under all 100+ of your green horde if you don't want to!

If you are attending an official Warhammer event, at one of our Warhammer World or Warhammer Fest events - either base sizes will be perfectly fine. If you are attending an Independently run Warhammer event, and are at all unsure - you should, as always, check with the event organiser.

Hope that helps!

 JimOnMars wrote:
Is the squigbuggy really 7 pl? Not sure I want one now.

That's what it says in GWs own list (and that list correctly adds up to 99PL) so it's extremely unlikely to be a typo.The squigbuggy is the one model from the new release I think I'll skip. The actual model for it I'm actually not too fond of and from a datasheet perspective I thought it should be in the 80ish points range. Not 130-150 as the PL would indicate.

Don't want to condemn it just yet, but it's not looking good for the squigglies

Squig Buggy is the all rounder though. Can tackle most targets, and should work well to either soften up or finish up targets the other Speed Freeks stuff target.

And, that Squig Mine is actually quite nasty. As an Ork player, the Mortal Wounds shouldn’t prove too much bother. But for stuff like Maureens and other elites, is a highly efficient denial weapon (just drop it on an objective and that, ideally in no man’s land or the enemy deployment ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 beerbeard wrote:
From Facebook:

Warhammer 40,000 Well, guys - As you have spotted, some of the Ork models we've shown recently are on larger bases than they were previously supplied with.

As we have with several other armies in recent years, we're taking this opportunity to move some of our infantry models to bases more fitting to the size of the model - in most cases with Orks, to the newer 32mm base.

We've had a few people ask what the "official" base size is.
The answer is, that's it's both; You can use your models on whatever base they were provided with, or any base that model has been shown on in any of our Warhammer 40,000 publications.

If you have older models, you are welcome to rebase them if you like, and not if you don't - both base sizes are considered perfectly official. You don't need to go ripping the bases from under all 100+ of your green horde if you don't want to!

If you are attending an official Warhammer event, at one of our Warhammer World or Warhammer Fest events - either base sizes will be perfectly fine. If you are attending an Independently run Warhammer event, and are at all unsure - you should, as always, check with the event organiser.

Hope that helps!

It most definitely does help!

im a collector so i'll be getting a squigbuggy regardless as the only models i avoid are ones i literally cannot use or are hyper expensive to use (stormboyz official models...).
But i'd agree its probably the weaker of them all atm. If the PL is accurate to points...ew...

:::table flip:::

I just made 6 custom movement trays with sheet metal underneathe and every boy with a magnet on the base. two fit perfect in KFF bubble, with all the boyz being able to be deployed by simple placing the tray down. When they get packed the magnets hold them to the tray. thats 200 magnets fething wasted.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
:::table flip:::

I just made 6 custom movement trays with sheet metal underneathe and every boy with a magnet on the base. two fit perfect in KFF bubble, with all the boyz being able to be deployed by simple placing the tray down. When they get packed the magnets hold them to the tray. thats 200 magnets fething wasted.

But the FB post said you can leave them on the old bases...

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
:::table flip:::

I just made 6 custom movement trays with sheet metal underneathe and every boy with a magnet on the base. two fit perfect in KFF bubble, with all the boyz being able to be deployed by simple placing the tray down. When they get packed the magnets hold them to the tray. thats 200 magnets fething wasted.

...Because you can still using the existing bases and they are official as far as GW is concerned?

Why? They just said 25s are fine?

Rockfish wrote:
Why? They just said 25s are fine?

I dont think this will be up to GW, it all depends on how powerfull boyz on 25mm bases will be compared to 32mm.

 jhnbrg wrote:

Rockfish wrote:
Why? They just said 25s are fine?

I dont think this will be up to GW, it all depends on how powerfull boyz on 25mm bases will be compared to 32mm.

As we all know, the number of boyz in a an area is proportional to the square of base size. You can get 63% more 25mm boyz in the same space as 32s.

For math-challenged GW, this doesn't seem to matter. I think most people will start throwing our their new 32mm bases and buying 25s aftermarket.

GW's stance is what it always was. Really depends on what ITC/NOVA et al say.

i also noticed that out of all the list entries in the GW speed freeks list that the bigmek has a listed upgrade. which just might mean that the bigmek will split into a profile that only has the SAG, but what of the bigmek with kff? well there is no official model with a KFF and thus will probably left in the index. no wonder why they brought a morkanaut for the KFF, its becasue its the only way they can get a 5up invul bubble in the new codex.....

GW needs to sort this whole ork HQ thing out. i love the new buggies, but they realy needed to make kits for our iconic HQs. not only can we not get a KFF bikemek with pts adjustments in the future but if suspicions are correct then we wont even be able to get any type of bigmek with any kff with updated pts.

well of course i guess there is the mega armored bigmek that can take the kff. but good luck having a mov4 model keeping up with a speedfreeks list or even a foot sloggin list.

the biggest issue of using a morkanaut to get a fast kff is that it is a massive target. ive run a massive dreddmob apocalypse game and my opponent soon learned to target the massive kff morkanauts which i was unlucky enough of them exploding and doing horrendous damage to everything they were meant to protect (even caused another few explodes results from other dredd...thats my luck).