Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 lolman1c wrote:
Okay, here's how I would have done tonight's live stream if I was a multi million pound company who just made stupid money this year and had just invested hundreds of thousands of pounds into the revival of an entire faction.

1. I'd have examined the tournament for one of the top Ork players.
2. Payed for them to have come down to GW 1 week ago. I wouldn't have evn have had to pay them, just offered to pay for flights and accommodation and given them free models.
3. Given them 1 week to get a feel for the codex and to either create a great list with lots of new units (then got someone to paint those units up) or given them a premade list and 1 week to get a hang of that list.
4. Looked at the games and seen who he preformed the best against.
5. Shown that game on live stream to show how amazing Orks are.
6. Profit!

Right now I have counted about 6 people who told me the live stream put them off starting an ork army.

Maybe I sound like a broken record, but knights and the like should have no place at a 2k game. Why they decided the game should be against knights with a Stompa just baffles me. They could have made any number of TAC lists showing off buggies, the trike boss and strats but decided that a dust up between mega heavies should be the focus.

 Castozor wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
or because they figured putting a FW tier unit in a codex was a mistake

Didn't they overcost FW's models in CA? Please tell me if I am mistaken.
But if I am not, I suppose they could not make THEIR stompa blatantly better I guess.

Yes this is my point. FW are overcosted, so they can't make the Stompa usable as a FW tier model even though it's an index/codex model. Overall I'm not really mad though. Yes I'm sad boyz are 7 ppm and the Stompa is still garbage, but A) I believe we will see a price hike for other "too good" basic infantry in CA and B) a usable Stompa would have been nice but I still think these kind of models should not be usable in 2k point games period. And like my first post indicated, I think we will be in a pretty good spot. Take that with a grain of salt as I'm both a new player and my local meta isn't comparable to tournaments. But I think for regular play we can field a variety of fun, fluffy and usable lists. The stompa will just not be in those lists.

I love how logic twists in the wind post hoc.

CA FW nerfs - They don't want to sell FW models over plastic!!
Stompa high cost - They don't want to sell FW tier models.

Makes sense now. How could we not see it before....


Oh crap.

Did they reveal the Tellyporta strategem yet?

I'm hearing that it's a singular Ork unit?

That's so much less fun than just 20PL worth of units.

fe40k wrote:
Did they reveal the Tellyporta strategem yet?

I'm hearing that it's a singular Ork unit?

That's so much less fun than just 20PL worth of units.

Yeah it was revealed. Its 20pl worth of A unit.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

I love how logic twists in the wind post hoc.

CA FW nerfs - They don't want to sell FW models over plastic!!
Stompa high cost - They don't want to sell FW tier models.

Makes sense now. How could we not see it before....

You are probably right and we are just paranoid, but this means that we are in an "Hanlon's Razor" situation - we assume malice while there is in fact stupidity/incompetence.
It's not going to look better, I am afraid. Arguably, it's looking worse.

I can't believe that they'd make Ork vehicles with zero options. I can't believe they'd make so many different ones. I can't believe they're still selling the Gorkamorka kopta and trakk alongside those billions new buggies (and plastic deffkoptas...). I can't believe there's no new infantry*. This feels like something that'd come out with a summer campaign codex, especially the speed freaks list for Armageddon.

But there's a bloodbag Grot, a fat hobo Ork with shottie, a literal pile of squigs and the trike driver might be my favourite model of the year so far. Top three Ork models, actually.

And maybe a Deff Skwadron wing of lots of skrapjet might be actually decent? And Blood Axes, too? Nice.


*I never thought we'd get new Kommandoz/Tankbustas, though, since nothing was rumoures or leaked, so at least I'm not mad.

If I'm interpreting it right we can use it multiple times, so it's pretty dang good.

Edit: I'm referring to the teleport stratagem.

fe40k wrote:
Did they reveal the Tellyporta strategem yet?

I'm hearing that it's a singular Ork unit?

That's so much less fun than just 20PL worth of units.

You mean this one from the Clan Fokus: Goffs article?

Thanks.

=(
Still, I'm glad to see the race with the best teleportin' teknology (albeit least controllable) finally get something that can well, teleport.

EDIT: Wait a moment... I'm not seeing a "one use only" condition.
Does this mean we can use it multiple times during deployment? Based on other stratagems, I'm leaning towards... yes?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

I love how logic twists in the wind post hoc.

CA FW nerfs - They don't want to sell FW models over plastic!!
Stompa high cost - They don't want to sell FW tier models.

Makes sense now. How could we not see it before....


Oh crap.

I personally never made that claim though? I'm just spit balling here as to why they made the stompa suck, which I'm sure is intentional at this point. I'm just personally not willing to go to the claim of G Dubs favours Imperial codexes/units over Xenos ones. But it's clear to me they made the Stompa suck for a reason. What that reason is exactly is anyone's guess.

Any news on whether regular warboss in mega armor is in the codex?


It seems like they have given us a bunch of ways to deal with T8, 3+ which is something I struggled with in the past (my most effective strategy being to either tie such models up in slap fights or ignore them and hope they don't table me). Of course we won't really know until the codex comes out.

I do love how the stompa is so bad even daedalus is saying GW are idiots. XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Any news on whether regular warboss in mega armor is in the codex?


It seems like they have given us a bunch of ways to deal with T8, 3+ which is something I struggled with in the past (my most effective strategy being to either tie such models up in slap fights or ignore them and hope they don't table me). Of course we won't really know until the codex comes out.

Honestly, now that we basically know the normal big mek with kff is gone, the biker boss and mek is gone, it wouldn't surprise me if the MA boss goes. Like I said (and was told I was wrong many months ago) codex orks is losing many of its options. We also lost KMB kanz as well. Now they're all on time bombs until 9th edition kills them for good.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

I love how logic twists in the wind post hoc.

CA FW nerfs - They don't want to sell FW models over plastic!!
Stompa high cost - They don't want to sell FW tier models.

Makes sense now. How could we not see it before....

You are probably right and we are just paranoid, but this means that we are in an "Hanlon's Razor" situation - we assume malice while there is in fact stupidity/incompetence.
It's not going to look better, I am afraid. Arguably, it's looking worse.

Yea, I mean I'll call it incompetence in the nicest sense of the word, but I'm withholding judgement until CA.

mhalko1 wrote:

fe40k wrote:
Did they reveal the Tellyporta strategem yet?

I'm hearing that it's a singular Ork unit?

That's so much less fun than just 20PL worth of units.

Yeah it was revealed. Its 20pl worth of A unit.

The way it's written you can put a transport of up to 20PL with any unit you want in it as there is nothing explaining how to/limiting what can be within.

fe40k wrote:
Thanks.

=(
Still, I'm glad to see the race with the best teleportin' teknology (albeit least controllable) finally get something that can well, teleport.

EDIT: Wait a moment... I'm not seeing a "one use only" condition.
Does this mean we can use it multiple times during deployment? Based on other stratagems, I'm leaning towards... yes?

I believe you would be able to use it as many times as you have CP for, since it’s a before deployment stratagem

 lolman1c wrote:
Honestly, now that we basically know the normal big mek with kff is gone, the biker boss and mek is gone, it wouldn't surprise me if the MA boss goes. Like I said (and was told I was wrong many months ago) codex orks is losing many of its options. We also lost KMB kanz as well. Now they're all on time bombs until 9th edition kills them for good.

No more KMB Kanz? Dang.

I hope we didn't lose rokkits on koptas (not that they were worth taking in the index anyway).

 Binabik15 wrote:
I can't believe that they'd make Ork vehicles with zero options. I can't believe they'd make so many different ones. I can't believe they're still selling the Gorkamorka kopta and trakk alongside those billions new buggies (and plastic deffkoptas...). I can't believe there's no new infantry*. This feels like something that'd come out with a summer campaign codex, especially the speed freaks list for Armageddon.

Personally, this is exactly what I expected. The days of huge sprawling releases are long gone. Tight, themed mini-releases that can happen month after month are preferred, and have been for quite a while now. Even new 'armies' are more just new 'mini-factions' with a handful of kits, like Daughters of Khaine. Brand new stuff that really push the boundaries have been 10 kits, split between characters and dual kits (fish elves)

Voss wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
I can't believe that they'd make Ork vehicles with zero options. I can't believe they'd make so many different ones. I can't believe they're still selling the Gorkamorka kopta and trakk alongside those billions new buggies (and plastic deffkoptas...). I can't believe there's no new infantry*. This feels like something that'd come out with a summer campaign codex, especially the speed freaks list for Armageddon.

Personally, this is exactly what I expected. The days of huge sprawling releases are long gone. Tight, themed mini-releases that can happen month after month are preferred, and have been for quite a while now. Even new 'armies' are more just new 'mini-factions' with a handful of kits, like Daughters of Khaine. Brand new stuff that really push the boundaries have been 10 kits, split between characters and dual kits (fish elves)

How many kits the Deathguard consisted in?

 lolman1c wrote:
I do love how the stompa is so bad even daedalus is saying GW are idiots. XD

Misguided maybe, but not idiots.

There's logic that they're applying to the thought process that doesn't add up.

A) They expect all the stratagems / KFF / repairs in measuring the worth of a unit.
- While typically I'd say this is a bad idea a KFF on a model with 40 wounds adds something like 20% durability (depending what is shooting it).

B) They priced it and forgot about it. Playtesters made no comment on it, because they don't have a model or time to test it.
- At that point the play testers failed and GW should consider a more open process.

C) They are bumping the costs of units to be more in line with the Stompa's PL.

I almost feel like A is the reason (and maybe a little C), because you could see the though process for them on using More Dakka and a Mek Shop to run 18 shots exploding on 5s. And since it doesn't degrade on BS it is ok to sit back and get pummeled and repair.

It's sort of like saying how dumb it is to run marines without a cheap screen. It's stupid to run a Stompa w/o a mek, KFF, etc.



The list that guy ran didn't know what it wanted to be. It was a hodge podge of fun things to try on the table that made for an uncohesive army. He could have had a psyker supporting the trike with Fists/Smite and made more use of the boys to drag down the armigers. Or some more Boyz and CP getting jumped and gumming up the knights and regenerating.

The Stompa could be "okay-ish" with the right list. It just isn't going to be something people will chase until Knights come down from their pedestal.

@Daedalus81

A is most definitely the reason - I don't think it's wrong to assume that every unit is calculated as though it were under the effects of KFF; an unrealistic situation, and that's even before you factor in the extra points (on top of the points they add to a model because it's presumed to have a 5++) - but a potential one because KFF exists.

Does anyone have a CP cost on the "More Dakka" stratagem?

Just watched the battle report. And I gotta say this just makes me hate my own Knight collection that much more.

I’m honestly afraid to even play them due to it being pretty much easy mode. I don’t want to discourage players in our group.

I’m not sure debuting codexes against Knights is smart going forward.

And on topic. Even after this I’m still super hyped about Orks.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Just watched the battle report. And I gotta say this just makes me hate my own Knight collection that much more.

I’m honestly afraid to even play them due to it being pretty much easy mode. I don’t want to discourage players in our group.

I’m not sure debuting codexes against Knights is smart going forward.

And on topic. Even after this I’m still super hyped about Orks.

No comment on Knights being too good (though that is the consensus); but the Ork player took a 100% unoptimized list, and also took a Stompa.

I wouldn't put too much stock into the battle preview videos; from what im hearing, most of the time, the new army loses anyways - they don't try to make a good list at ALL.

The person who made the ork list was nearly a first time player; he was a new ork boss, and just wanted to use a Stompa (and i doubt he did the math to see if it was even good or not before hand). His initial list started with Stompa+Gorkanaut+Morkanaut; but that was too many PL for the video.

Yeah taking the stompa was probably a very bad choice. If he Teleported the Naut and charged it into a knight, and took 900 points of not Stompa it would have been much better imo

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
I do love how the stompa is so bad even daedalus is saying GW are idiots. XD

A) They expect all the stratagems / KFF / repairs in measuring the worth of a unit.
- While typically I'd say this is a bad idea a KFF on a model with 40 wounds adds something like 20% durability (depending what is shooting it).

So why didn't they take into account the inbuilt invulnerable save Knights have when pricing them?

B) They priced it and forgot about it. Playtesters made no comment on it, because they don't have a model or time to test it.
- At that point the play testers failed and GW should consider a more open process.

They literally said on the stream that feedback had been saying that the Stompa wasn't worth the points.

I almost feel like A is the reason (and maybe a little C), because you could see the though process for them on using More Dakka and a Mek Shop to run 18 shots exploding on 5s. And since it doesn't degrade on BS it is ok to sit back and get pummeled and repair.

It's sort of like saying how dumb it is to run marines without a cheap screen. It's stupid to run a Stompa w/o a mek, KFF, etc.

Deffkannon with that setup generates 20 shots over two turns (18 shots, 6 hit, 2 additional hits from More Dakka). Deffkannon without the Mek Shop or More Dakka generates 21 shots on average.

Sit back and shoot? With a model that pays a hefty price for a major melee profile? Equivalent points would buy you 21 Kustom Mega Kannons, for an average of 73 BS4+ Str 8 Ap-3 D3 dmg shots per turn, and a combined wound total of 126 wounds, all of which can be Deffskulls giving you a reroll to hit and to wound with every gun.

The Stompa is garbage. No amount of army building or stratagems will change that.

The stompa was going to be garbage regardless!!!
Buzzgrobs stompa was 400 pts in 7th tournaments and was barely competitive at just over half the cost....

The stompa needs to be priced just under a castellan to be usable.

Stompas just aren’t going to be viable

Hmm... the Mek Shakk comes with the Speed Freeks terrain.

That's nice.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hmm... the Mek Shakk comes with the Speed Freeks terrain.

That's nice.

Indeed. I was worried that I'd have to get it through eBay. Good thing I never gave into the initial urge to preorder Speed Freeks.

 Binabik15 wrote:
I can't believe that they'd make Ork vehicles with zero options. I can't believe they'd make so many different ones. I can't believe they're still selling the Gorkamorka kopta and trakk alongside those billions new buggies (and plastic deffkoptas...). I can't believe there's no new infantry*. This feels like something that'd come out with a summer campaign codex, especially the speed freaks list for Armageddon.

But there's a bloodbag Grot, a fat hobo Ork with shottie, a literal pile of squigs and the trike driver might be my favourite model of the year so far. Top three Ork models, actually.

And maybe a Deff Skwadron wing of lots of skrapjet might be actually decent? And Blood Axes, too? Nice.


*I never thought we'd get new Kommandoz/Tankbustas, though, since nothing was rumoures or leaked, so at least I'm not mad.

I second that.

What a let down.

Not one (!) infantry figure.

I was not that interested in the buggy thing as much as Evil Sun player, playing Blodd Axes,
but it is hard to swallow they released that buggies galore and let the track and kopter
as it, especially the trakk.
So what? Trakk will be done in 9th edition maybe?
I do not feel that all these buggies were needed, and the kits have no option at all... meh!

And do not even get me started on the Big Gunz again,
this where we actually lost something and was liking in
the army.

I will wait for the Blood Axes article and will probably buy the codex anyway,
but model-wise this release has been a major let-down for me.

I suspected it all along, no way it'd have options with that amount of sprue lol. New GW want to minimize cost while still selling you stuff at similar or higher price point.