Ork News & Rumors - New Codex, Speed Freeks,Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy revealed

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**aka_mythos**

The pictures of Looted Tanks being in 2018's Chapter Approved... I'm excited for them, even if they are limited to friendlier game... I just hope they aren't as limited in options as the option to VDR Chaos Landraiders in the previous CA.

**fe40k**

TedNugent wrote:
There is legitimately a lot of annoying stuff in this codex, even if it's alright or even exciting overall.

Having to pick a clan is exciting, eye opening and also annoying in that it shuts out certain named characters, strategems, and pigeonholes you into certain builds while impacting your build flexibility. Once painted you're kind of stuck with it. I guess this is supposed to be super awesome and kewl or something, but in practical terms it is incredibly annoying, even if it is a convention at this point. Clan soups will be impacted by Waaagh, transport restrictions, Speedwaaagh, etc.

Removal of numerous utility characters like big mek with KFF, bikerboss, painbiker, is continually frustrating when theorycrafting builds. Having to buy an index just to support them is annoying. Possibility of losing support is annoying. No points adjustments ever are annoying. It's like legacy support that is soon to be on life support before the inevitable cut, probably never to be seen again.

Points increases on warboss, painboy, and boys are frustrating.

Over all it's an exciting book that carries serious restrictions that will result in more confined, structured builds based around min maxing clan rules.

I'm finding myself grumbling each time I think about a certain list build and how clan rules and omissions have affected certain things.

This 100%.

Losing classic models (that occupy valuable spaces in the roster) in the codex, which means potentially losing them if the index's ever get cut; points increases on models that clearly don't deserve it; structured lists via klan rules and assignments (which itself isn't a new 8th concept, but having too many units Kultur locked (Gretchin of all kinds, Flash Gits, etc)), and so many other things.

The book will be functional, and likely even competitive - but, will it be fun? Certainly some things will be, such as seeing ork tellyporta teknology finally given the rules it deserves on the tabletop - but the units that'll be actually usable without handicapping yourself; well, we shall see.

I'm excited to list build - but I'm not blind to various codex based issues and concerns.

**NurglesR0T**

TedNugent wrote:
There is legitimately a lot of annoying stuff in this codex, even if it's alright or even exciting overall.

Having to pick a clan is exciting, eye opening and also annoying in that it shuts out certain named characters, strategems, and pigeonholes you into certain builds while impacting your build flexibility. Once painted you're kind of stuck with it. I guess this is supposed to be super awesome and kewl or something, but in practical terms it is incredibly annoying, even if it is a convention at this point. Clan soups will be impacted by Waaagh, transport restrictions, Speedwaaagh, etc.

This has been the case with every codex released in 8th - named characters being locked to certain keywords etc... not sure why you thought Orks would be any different?

**Nightlord1987**

I've been preparing for this since 8th. I had every unit painted a different clan. Majority Death Skulls and Evil Suns with a theme of looted vehicles, so not too badly represented, but I'm gonna repaint my Shoota Boyz as Evil Sunsz and Goff slugga Boyz as Death Skulls. I also have Snake bite Wyrdboys which I think I'll just bring along with 30 Gretchin. Psychic powers affect all friendly Ork models right? I can Jump some Death Skulls, and just advance Evil Suns behind them.

**Vineheart01**

people probably expected orks to be different because 3 of our most commonly used HQs vanished - MA boss, bike boss, and footmek KFF.

What they left us were very few named characters that are super gimicky and not really useful except for being stuck to a certain unit type, ghaz (which while in the same category, his rules are universal atleast), and a warboss. Cause who the heck uses MA meks?

**Matt.Kingsley**

Could certainly be worse though, your HQ selection could be like Dark Eldar's, which get's screwed over by the "rule of 3" if you want to take multiple Kabal, Wych Cult or Coven detachments due to each only having a single generic HQ. Hell, all Kabals have are the generic Archon and that's it iirc.

**JimOnMars**

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Could certainly be worse though, your HQ selection could be like Dark Eldar's, which get's screwed over by the "rule of 3" if you want to take multiple Kabal, Wych Cult or Coven detachments due to each only having a single generic HQ. Hell, all Kabals have are the generic Archon and that's it iirc.

I can definitely appreciate the DE HQ debacle. GW could easily make a couple of really interesting characters for you, and should.

What's weird about orks is that they kill units that are wildly popular and in widespread use. It's as if GW decided to get rid the Archon, too. They see a lot of people using it, so their first thought is "kill it! kill it!!!"

I really wonder which unit will be the next to get the axe.

**tneva82**

TedNugent wrote:

Goff trait is useless regardless. Goff strategem skarboys is incredible. It gives crucial strength 5 on a unit that can be throwing out literally buckets of dice.

For one thing, it doubles their damage output against toughnesa 8 models like imperial knights.

Provided that you can get a slow as molasses 5" movement speed 30 man blob into combat, they are so far beyond any of the other clans in sheer damage output.

Main thing for goff trait would be trukk boyz where 12(minus casualties) don't throw that impressive number of attacks so no more buckets of dice. Exploding 6's help there then.

Then again trukk boyz suck. They really should make trukk boyz into their own datasheet.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
Considering most people will have multiple clans which most should require some type of troop choice...
There is no need to pigeon hole yourself with all your Boyz with 1 clan. Feel free to use 30-40 Goff skar boys that you da jump.
Followed by 30-60 evil sun shoota boys with a 10-20 model Gretchin screen.
Or whateva your heart fancies...
Remember to save 3cp so you can green tide your Boyz back to full strength after your oppponent wastes a turn or 2 shooting them.

Da jump skarboyz suffer from unreliable charge. Even with boost for 'ere we go it's still 58% chance. 42% chance the unit will simply be deleted without killing single model.

Oh and does the green tide work on completely dead unit or is it like tide of traitor? If fully killing prevents that strategem don't count it. 40 boyz is dead easy to remove so the 40 skarboyz will be dead.

**Jidmah**

Vineheart01 wrote:
people probably expected orks to be different because 3 of our most commonly used HQs vanished - MA boss, bike boss, and footmek KFF.

What they left us were very few named characters that are super gimicky and not really useful except for being stuck to a certain unit type, ghaz (which while in the same category, his rules are universal atleast), and a warboss. Cause who the heck uses MA meks?

Well, in the "how to fix orks" thread there were tons of ideas for rules to give MA meks to make them feel unique... like allowing him to pimp one vehicle in your army to be his master-piece.

**Nightlord1987**

Can't bring a unit back that was Mobbed Up.

**the_scotsman**

Vineheart01 wrote:
people probably expected orks to be different because 3 of our most commonly used HQs vanished - MA boss, bike boss, and footmek KFF.

What they left us were very few named characters that are super gimicky and not really useful except for being stuck to a certain unit type, ghaz (which while in the same category, his rules are universal atleast), and a warboss. Cause who the heck uses MA meks?

The shrinking of the ork HQ section is actually pretty interesting. Since I started in fifth, we had:

5th-7th: No more Wazdakka, Old Zogwart
7th-8th index: No more painboy, painboy on bike, Mad Dok Grotsnik (all moved to elite)
8th index - 8th codex: No more warboss on bike, foot mek, mek on bike, all character HQs become subfaction locked so you only get one of Ghaz, Snikrot, Badrukk or Zagstruk. Added trike.

That's 9 fewer choices for HQs in an ork army between fifth and now, assuming you don't detachment-mix to get multiple characters, which I guess I'll have to do at this point.

**Kriswall**

the_scotsman wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
people probably expected orks to be different because 3 of our most commonly used HQs vanished - MA boss, bike boss, and footmek KFF.

What they left us were very few named characters that are super gimicky and not really useful except for being stuck to a certain unit type, ghaz (which while in the same category, his rules are universal atleast), and a warboss. Cause who the heck uses MA meks?

The shrinking of the ork HQ section is actually pretty interesting. Since I started in fifth, we had:

5th-7th: No more Wazdakka, Old Zogwart
7th-8th index: No more painboy, painboy on bike, Mad Dok Grotsnik (all moved to elite)
8th index - 8th codex: No more warboss on bike, foot mek, mek on bike, all character HQs become subfaction locked so you only get one of Ghaz, Snikrot, Badrukk or Zagstruk. Added trike.

That's 9 fewer choices for HQs in an ork army between fifth and now, assuming you don't detachment-mix to get multiple characters, which I guess I'll have to do at this point.

Lots of Factions detachment-mix. That's pretty normal these days. Sautekh Necrons are good at shooting and Novokh Necrons are good at melee. I put my shooty units in one detachment and my stabby units in another. Be prepared to do similar with Orks.

**Nightlord1987**

Anyone confirm if Kommandos are stuck with upgrading to a PK Nob only?

Also, are Burnaz, still a thing for Kommandos?

**docdoom77**

Nightlord1987 wrote:
Anyone confirm if Kommandos are stuck with upgrading to a PK Nob only?

Also, are Burnaz, still a thing for Kommandos?

The video I watched said PK only. I imagine burnas are gone from Kommandos. I'd expect to lose any option not in the box.

**Kaiyanwang**

Nightlord1987 wrote:
Anyone confirm if Kommandos are stuck with upgrading to a PK Nob only?

This messes with Forgeworld, intentionally or not (their Kommando kit has a Nob with Big Choppa).

**Graphite**

Rinkydink wrote:
Right that does it. Time for a #Mektoo movement.

Spoiler:

You can't see it, but the KFF on his back produces such a powerful and localised forcefield around the Mek himself that it's equivalent to Mega Armour.

**ikeulhu**

Graphite wrote:

You can't see it, but the KFF on his back produces such a powerful and localised forcefield around the Mek himself that it's equivalent to Mega Armour.

Yeah, that is the easiest fluff reason for playing a standard KFF Big Mek as the Mega-Armor version. If I play in a game where the standard version is not an option, that is how I plan to run it.

**CthuluIsSpy**

docdoom77 wrote:
Nightlord1987 wrote:
Anyone confirm if Kommandos are stuck with upgrading to a PK Nob only?

Also, are Burnaz, still a thing for Kommandos?

The video I watched said PK only. I imagine burnas are gone from Kommandos. I'd expect to lose any option not in the box.

Can tankbusta nobz still take PK? I don't want to tear the PK conversion off of mine and attach the rokkit launcher.

**gungo**

Nightlord1987 wrote:
Can't bring a unit back that was Mobbed Up.

does it specifically call out any unit mobbed up... if not you can always bring back 30 Boyz.

**lord_blackfang**

Why wouldn't you be able to bring back a mobbed up unit? The strategem says to bring it back at its starting strength, so that already prevents any mob up shenanigans.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Graphite wrote:
Rinkydink wrote:
Right that does it. Time for a #Mektoo movement.

Spoiler:

You can't see it, but the KFF on his back produces such a powerful and localised forcefield around the Mek himself that it's equivalent to Mega Armour.

I would just say the KFF is so sturdy that it basically doubles as mega armor. The mek just sort of balls up when he gets attacked. Like a turtle.

**Andykp**

TedNugent wrote:
There is legitimately a lot of annoying stuff in this codex, even if it's alright or even exciting overall.

Having to pick a clan is exciting, eye opening and also annoying in that it shuts out certain named characters, strategems, and pigeonholes you into certain builds while impacting your build flexibility. Once painted you're kind of stuck with it. I guess this is supposed to be super awesome and kewl or something, but in practical terms it is incredibly annoying, even if it is a convention at this point. Clan soups will be impacted by Waaagh, transport restrictions, Speedwaaagh, etc.

Removal of numerous utility characters like big mek with KFF, bikerboss, painbiker, is continually frustrating when theorycrafting builds. Having to buy an index just to support them is annoying. Possibility of losing support is annoying. No points adjustments ever are annoying. It's like legacy support that is soon to be on life support before the inevitable cut, probably never to be seen again.

Points increases on warboss, painboy, and boys are frustrating.

Over all it's an exciting book that carries serious restrictions that will result in more confined, structured builds based around min maxing clan rules.

I'm finding myself grumbling each time I think about a certain list build and how clan rules and omissions have affected certain things.

The clan things is great news. They should matter and people should have to choose. It’s a big bit of ORK background and should be represented. Modelling wise I’m seeing it as a challenge and am excited for it. I couldn’t put down a unit of my beloved evilsunz bikers and say they were goff or bloodaxe. It would be sacrilege.

Losing units they don’t make models for was bound to happen but it’s far from the end of the world. They still have rules and a legal way to use them. Even in “competitive” games. And more new units will be added. Points adjusts are nice to have but not essential as you will only ever have so many painboyz on bikes in an army. It sounds a lot like people building lists the way you seem to think will happen will be trying not to have fun and not take advantage of the flavour the codex can give to ORKS.

It could have been a lot worse. All prime ORKS and silliness.

**mhalko1**

So did we have confirmation that infantry from one kultur don't get to travel with another kultur's transport?

**tneva82**

Andykp wrote:
TedNugent wrote:
There is legitimately a lot of annoying stuff in this codex, even if it's alright or even exciting overall.

Having to pick a clan is exciting, eye opening and also annoying in that it shuts out certain named characters, strategems, and pigeonholes you into certain builds while impacting your build flexibility. Once painted you're kind of stuck with it. I guess this is supposed to be super awesome and kewl or something, but in practical terms it is incredibly annoying, even if it is a convention at this point. Clan soups will be impacted by Waaagh, transport restrictions, Speedwaaagh, etc.

Removal of numerous utility characters like big mek with KFF, bikerboss, painbiker, is continually frustrating when theorycrafting builds. Having to buy an index just to support them is annoying. Possibility of losing support is annoying. No points adjustments ever are annoying. It's like legacy support that is soon to be on life support before the inevitable cut, probably never to be seen again.

Points increases on warboss, painboy, and boys are frustrating.

Over all it's an exciting book that carries serious restrictions that will result in more confined, structured builds based around min maxing clan rules.

I'm finding myself grumbling each time I think about a certain list build and how clan rules and omissions have affected certain things.

The clan things is great news. They should matter and people should have to choose. It’s a big bit of ORK background and should be represented. Modelling wise I’m seeing it as a challenge and am excited for it. I couldn’t put down a unit of my beloved evilsunz bikers and say they were goff or bloodaxe. It would be sacrilege.

Losing units they don’t make models for was bound to happen but it’s far from the end of the world. They still have rules and a legal way to use them. Even in “competitive” games. And more new units will be added. Points adjusts are nice to have but not essential as you will only ever have so many painboyz on bikes in an army. It sounds a lot like people building lists the way you seem to think will happen will be trying not to have fun and not take advantage of the flavour the codex can give to ORKS.

It could have been a lot worse. All prime ORKS and silliness.

Problem with clan rules is same as it's always been with chapters etc. Go against fluff, stiffle creativity

**TedNugent**

mhalko1 wrote:
So did we have confirmation that infantry from one kultur don't get to travel with another kultur's transport?

Yes

**Irbis**

tneva82 wrote:
Problem with clan rules is same as it's always been with chapters etc. Go against fluff, stiffle creativity

I don't know if you noticed, but we have (gasp!) 8th edition now. 7th ed nonsense pigeonholing you into whatever rigid mix your special snowflake decurion demanded is over, now you can bring whatever units you want that synergize with (quite broad and fluffy) faction tactics. The fact you choose to spam that one 0.00002% more efficient unit to the exclusion of all else while calling the rest of the book 'trash' or whatever, is your problem, and the resulting lack of fluff and fun is 100% on you, not on the game, or the writers, who did far better job this edition...

**TedNugent**

Decurions were truly awful, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend removal of footmek, bikemek or bikerboss aren't also awful.

There are upswings and downswings to the book. Comparing it to this or that is kind of not relevant to an individual point about an individual thing.

**NinthMusketeer**

GW just needs to compromise and bring back options that lack a dedicated kit by providing official "how to convert" instructions.

**TedNugent**

A how to convert guide would defeat the purpose.

They just need to leave the options in the codex or at least update the index.

**Vineheart01**

considering the format didnt change they should just flatout copy/paste it over, not even rebalancing it until either the format changes or they give us official kits.

Other than gear, which would change regardless, not like theyre gonna get a rules overhaul without a kit release.