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They could hide a card inside the packaging.

The secret envelope is a little bit legacy-like, I suppose. But only a little.

There's no reason you couldn't do a legacy-style miniatures game; it would have to be the miniatures stats that change over time rather than the miniatures themselves though (unless you're provided with additional weapons or the like to add on as you go through the game).

 streetsamurai wrote:
looks better and better. The envloppe thing is midly intriguing, but I expect it to only be the ''fluff ending''.

Let me guess, rocks fall, everyone dies, last survivor pressed self destruct button?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Its a shame about the explorer sprue layout, as it probably means they will not be released outside of the big box.

They probably will be; the Marines from Deathwatch Overkill were, after all. They just won't be released as individual characters.

The GSC part of the set was not, though...

So? I was responding to a comment about the heroes.

These heroes seem more like a cohesive group than the ones from Silver Tower - they're all the Rogue Trader's crew. It makes more sense for them to be released as one set later on than it would have done for the Silver Tower heroes. That's why I think they'll eventually come out as a single box, if they are released outwith the Blackstone Fortress box.

The adversaries are probably harbingers of new units, like the Tzeentch units from Silver Tower and the Genestealer Cultists in Deathwatch Overkill were; I'm sure we'll see separate box sets of Chaos renegades, beastmen and Chaos Space Marines at some point soonish.

However, we spent a long time waiting for Cultists and updated Chaos Marines the last time they popped up in a boxed set...
and they never really surfaced.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
So? I was responding to a comment about the heroes.

These heroes seem more like a cohesive group than the ones from Silver Tower - they're all the Rogue Trader's crew. It makes more sense for them to be released as one set later on than it would have done for the Silver Tower heroes. That's why I think they'll eventually come out as a single box, if they are released outwith the Blackstone Fortress box.

The adversaries are probably harbingers of new units, like the Tzeentch units from Silver Tower and the Genestealer Cultists in Deathwatch Overkill were; I'm sure we'll see separate box sets of Chaos renegades, beastmen and Chaos Space Marines at some point soonish.

They're actually not, everyone has their own ship - they're allies he's recruited to help breach the Blackstone, though they were already attempting it. He's not brought any of them with him.

As for miniature legacy games, old style Gorkamorka and Necromunda have to come close? Supposed to convert and change the mob as they grow and evolve.

When I say Risk Legacy style - in addition to the Legacy components of new cards, stickers etc, there was also secret set of cards that say "DO NOT OPEN UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES" - the contents of these were not the same in all sets.

The little guys are Ratlings (40K halflings) right? I mean, if they were Squats, they'd have beards, boots and sunglasses, right? I am super stoked on this right now...I am REALLY hoping for stats/behavior charts for MORE baddies at launch to keep things interesting!

 Fango wrote:
The little guys are Ratlings (40K halflings) right? I mean, if they were Squats, they'd have beards, boots and sunglasses, right? I am super stoked on this right now...I am REALLY hoping for stats/behavior charts for MORE baddies at launch to keep things interesting!

The ratlings could preview a new kit option as well- classic rratling snipers, and ratlings with grappel hooks and knives, like pint sized primaris reavers. Could be 2 builds in a multipart box.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Fango wrote:
The little guys are Ratlings (40K halflings) right? I mean, if they were Squats, they'd have beards, boots and sunglasses, right? I am super stoked on this right now...I am REALLY hoping for stats/behavior charts for MORE baddies at launch to keep things interesting!

The ratlings could preview a new kit option as well- classic rratling snipers, and ratlings with grappel hooks and knives, like pint sized primaris reavers. Could be 2 builds in a multipart box.

Ratling snipers and ratling... scouts(?)
I Will definitely be interested in such a kit.

Did we ever get full confirmation of exactly what that robot is? Is it supposed to be an actual AI equipped robot, or is it supposed to be a servitor?

Voss wrote:
However, we spent a long time waiting for Cultists and updated Chaos Marines the last time they popped up in a boxed set...
and they never really surfaced.

That was "old" GW.

 Irbis wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
looks better and better. The envloppe thing is midly intriguing, but I expect it to only be the ''fluff ending''.

Let me guess, rocks fall, everyone dies, last survivor pressed self destruct button?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Its a shame about the explorer sprue layout, as it probably means they will not be released outside of the big box.

They probably will be; the Marines from Deathwatch Overkill were, after all. They just won't be released as individual characters.

The GSC part of the set was not, though...

The HQs were (and are still) on the same sprue when released, while the Neophytes and Acolytes got multiparts.

The hidden vault could be a hint of something to come...a new alien race (that feature the spindle drones), a return of a Primarch, something related to Abbadon or possibly another figure (unlikely though)

Here's my wild guess......Rogal Dorn is returning. Why else would they make a specific Imperial Fists Battleforce for Xmas?

I would love for Dorn to be the next primarch.

On a side note, I'm in LOVE with this release.

I'm hoping see more old one tech, and if they are really taking chances let's see some tarelliand and pisceans!

I wanted to see what the page from the manual GW posted to their community site had to say about the other books in the set but then ended up transcribing the whole page.

It's pretty long so I dumped the text here.

anything contained in pointy brackets was either unreadable or my best guess as to what the word (or words) were.

 bullyboy wrote:
The hidden vault could be a hint of something to come...a new alien race (that feature the spindle drones), a return of a Primarch, something related to Abbadon or possibly another figure (unlikely though)

Here's my wild guess......Rogal Dorn is returning. Why else would they make a specific Imperial Fists Battleforce for Xmas?

While making sense on some level-it would be an outright atrocity if the second loyalist would be yet another "codex" marine, and not one of the BA/DA/SW.

A new xeno race is...possible yet unlikely. even if the drones may bring it to suspicion-they said they will talk about them later during the week, I doubt such a massive announcement would come in such an offhand fashion.

Honestly, its likely pointing towards something new for chaos. I suspect it might connect to the upcoming Slannesh release...

I have been giving 40k a miss since the primaris popped up and the fact that they are nowhere near this release is the deciding factor for me to press ahead and make the purchase.

 Rayvon wrote:
I have been giving 40k a miss since the primaris popped up and the fact that they are nowhere near this release is the deciding factor for me to press ahead and make the purchase.

Don't get too happy, there are a lot of little remarks as part of the marketing that makes me think they're going to tie this heavily into the whole "40K is an ongoing plot now" thing - they do not intend to let anyone avoid it - so Primaris and all that jazz is only a matter of time.

I'm sure they will eventually release a primaris model for use in Blackstone Fortress. The great thing about these boxed games is you can just not use it, same with the commanders expansion for kill team. If you don't want to use it then don't. GW are just doing the sensible thing and giving people choice.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The hidden vault could be a hint of something to come...a new alien race (that feature the spindle drones), a return of a Primarch, something related to Abbadon or possibly another figure (unlikely though)

Here's my wild guess......Rogal Dorn is returning. Why else would they make a specific Imperial Fists Battleforce for Xmas?

While making sense on some level-it would be an outright atrocity if the second loyalist would be yet another "codex" marine, and not one of the BA/DA/SW.

A new xeno race is...possible yet unlikely. even if the drones may bring it to suspicion-they said they will talk about them later during the week, I doubt such a massive announcement would come in such an offhand fashion.

Honestly, its likely pointing towards something new for chaos. I suspect it might connect to the upcoming Slannesh release...

There is literally nothing slaaneshy in there, except the lord maybee a closet slaneeshy worshipper.
What is interesting is that they explicitly added in the names and models closely associated with the lost and the damned (beastmens are mutants) and it's successor R&H via the Rogue psyker and the terminus Traitor guardsmen which were also an entry in the old campaign for the lost and the damned, aswell as associated with the bloody handed reaver arch demagogue option for R&H.
I feel like most Chaos players , or even those on the fence that did not want to start another SM army( but with spikez), would get fairly interested in them.

>Granted, Lost and the damned aswell as R&H were and are a faction as colorfull and divided as the regular CSM dudes, so maybee we get them alongside? Regardless this Traitor guardsmen are the closest thing we got to cultists in a sensible manner since a long time. (frankly the snapfit cultists are just terrible!)

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I'm sure they will eventually release a primaris model for use in Blackstone Fortress. The great thing about these boxed games is you can just not use it, same with the commanders expansion for kill team. If you don't want to use it then don't. GW are just doing the sensible thing and giving people choice.

What will probably happen first though is some expansion cards for various single-frame clampack characters.

I'd like to see a really out-there Marine - one who's been in the Rogue Trader's retinue for decades (perhaps centuries, and he's been passed down from parent to child), so he's drifted away from the usual look of his Chapter.

Perhaps a Blackshield, or something like one of these guys:


(I painted my anniversary Imperial Space Marine like the guy in green).

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I'm sure they will eventually release a primaris model for use in Blackstone Fortress. The great thing about these boxed games is you can just not use it, same with the commanders expansion for kill team. If you don't want to use it then don't. GW are just doing the sensible thing and giving people choice.

Yes, and kind of no.

See, Quest is a properly co-operative game. In theory, those you're off dungeoneering with will pick their own favourite character. You then arrange games when everyone can make it.

My fear is that any kind of protagonist Marine just won't work. They'll have better guns, better armour, better resilience and better face breaking stats. This is precisely why FFG split Marines off into their own RPG - they just unbalance games when involved with 'mere mortals'. We had one in our Rogue Trader game. Whilst it worked for the most part, when it came to combat we sat down, had a nice cup of tea and let the Astartes handle it.

And I hate to say it - but such oddities in co-operative games tend to bring out the worst in players.

For a Dungeoneering game to work well, it needs to have distinct flaws to each character. This forces teamwork. The healer is vital, but squishy. The Fighter basically does just one thing. Those falling in between need their own drawbacks. Otherwise, people will all just take a Marine each, and the whole point of the game falls apart, as they merrily rampage through everything. Renegade Guardsmen torn apart in second. Beastmen chinned with aplomb. Traitor Marines ganged up on by 5 Loyalists, all with shiny better gear.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I'm sure they will eventually release a primaris model for use in Blackstone Fortress. The great thing about these boxed games is you can just not use it, same with the commanders expansion for kill team. If you don't want to use it then don't. GW are just doing the sensible thing and giving people choice.

"Primaris" in this case is being used as shorthand for "all the story stuff they've produced since they moved on the setting and brought back Rowboat". I can choose not to use the Primaris model, I can't choose to play Blackstone Fortress and ignore the broader 40K ongoing narrative if Blackstone Fortress is explicitly tied into that ongoing narrative as its expansions are released.

I think the secret envelope will reveal Abaddon. Black Legion are in the set, and there were rumors that Abaddon was in the set as well. Perhaps a bit of teasing, as if the new model for him is previewed on a card in that envelope you could argue he's technically in the box...

Also there's the direct link between Abaddon and Blackstone Fortresses in the current narrative, and GW have lately been tying every one of these new box set releases together in some way.

I hope future extensions will be pretty small.
The core box is pretty big, costs quite a lot (even if it's a good deal) and will take a few month to paint up (at least for me). I like most of the models in it, so I'll buy it anyway. But if the next releases are also pretty big, I'm not sure I'll keep up with the new stuff (this is assuming my friends and I enjoy the game obviously).

Small extensions with like 4-5 small infantry, 2 more elite ones, and a boss would be the perfect size for me. And a clampack character once in a while to play as one of the good guys, would also be welcome.

Why did GW kill the original Warhammer Quest out of curiosity?

The envelope just says "Expansion heroes will be £25 each"

Ancient Otter wrote:
Why did GW kill the original Warhammer Quest out of curiosity?

From my guess, it was slowly phased out probably due to low sales figures and an internal change. It slowly disappeared around 1997 to 1999 which is around the time where GW started to reduce focus on producing these boxed games and shunt existing ones to Fanatic. WHQ did survive during the early days of Fanatic with Deathblow Magazine and the Pits and Traps expansion. There was a Skaven and Chaos Dwarf expansion rumoured. The Skaven one ended up in White Dwarf. The Chaos Dwarf one ended up as a single board section bundle in White Dwarf 200 and 2 limited release Chaos Dwarf axemen.

Ancient Otter wrote:
Why did GW kill the original Warhammer Quest out of curiosity?

You mean the original 1994 Warhammer Quest? They didn't kill it. Time passed and they slowly stopped supporting it as it no longer made as many sales. While it was active they released a decent amount of content for it, treasure packs, new characters, new adventures via White Dwarf and I think there was even a couple of campaign expansions.

If you mean the new Silver Tower / Hammerhal stuff then I don't know if its too early to say if they've killed it or not. There's definitely potential for them to release further boxed games in the series (you could even argue that Blackstone Fortress is a continuation of the series).