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I’m playing with judgedoug. I think the game is a marvellous good time so far and we haven’t hit any rules quandaries despite, as judgedoug already mentioned, the fact that our team has already tackled one of the strongholds successfully. FYI, the flow of the game is: explore the fortress for clues, obtain four clues to find a stronghold, explore four strongholds to get to the endgame scenario.

It certainly is a fun way to pass the time, but GW doesn’t make “playing by the rules” easy with their rulebooks organization (best example, healing after an expedition).

I’m expecting they’ll do a hero pack of four, like they did for Silver Tower. It would be nice if they do extra monsters - maybe Necrons (flayers and/or warriors), an Ambull, Zoats and a genestealer and/or gaunts.

Well, we have the usual denizens of abandoned Space Ships/Hulks:
*Chaos Renegades ✓
*Orks
*Genestealers (need a new kit anyway)

Then some minor Xenos/Xenoi with single resin miniatures where a sole 40k release is rather unlikely:
*Jokaero
*Sslyth
*Yr-ghul ✓
*Clawed Fiend

Rules for KT: RT characters and some adversaries via WD would be reasonable.

I love the game and I finished 3 strongholds, but my group stumbled on some edge cases in the rules or things that doesn't seems very logical or not well explained.
But it may be because the translation in french is not as good.

For exemple for "Not dead yet" event it isn't clear if I must deploy the miniature using normal deployment rules (via a portal) or if the miniature can repop on the board anywhere next to an adventurer.

There was also a confusion on the reinforcement roll with groups with mixed bases sizes. Yes we use the smallest base size on the table for the roll, but must we deploy the smallest base size first (or the ennemy player can deploy a medium size miniature even if it has done the roll for small size etc.). This seemed quite counterintuitive when we use only RaW.
One other with reinforcement: it never says if we can reinforce more minis than there was at the start (like if you start with 1 spindle drone and you kill it can you reinforce 4 on a 1). We decided that they could but here also it seems a little counterintuitive.

And one problem with the rule we fixed by a houserule is when we draw a second time the same group of ennemies and there is still minis to deploy, we redraw. Because last time we didn't do that, we had two group of renegade guards deployed on the board and once they moved and merged it was quite a mess to manage the minis respecting the initiative order.

We had other problems like these I don't remember off the top of my head, nothing to severe to stop us to enjoy the game, but little grains of sands in a well oiled machine nonetheless.

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Well, we have the usual denizens of abandoned Space Ships/Hulks:
*Chaos Renegades ✓
*Orks
*Genestealers (need a new kit anyway)

As someone knee-deep in genestealers, really have to disagree. The current kit is good, with a number of options. And Space Hulk brought more variety, and even Deathwatch: Overkill brought another couple variations (blast from the past edition, with the original carapace design). There are a lot of options and variety of poses for genestealers out there, probably more than anything else that isn't a marine.

Not sure why you've got a checkmark next to renegades, though. That can has been barely cracked open.

Voss wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Well, we have the usual denizens of abandoned Space Ships/Hulks:
*Chaos Renegades ✓
*Orks
*Genestealers (need a new kit anyway)

As someone knee-deep in genestealers, really have to disagree. The current kit is good, with a number of options. And Space Hulk brought more variety, and even Deathwatch: Overkill brought another couple variations (blast from the past edition, with the original carapace design). There are a lot of options and variety of poses for genestealers out there, probably more than anything else that isn't a marine.

While it isn't bad it doesn't fit with the Overkill Genestealers/Patriarch and hybrids retcon look. The current kit was a move to 'tyranidify' them, but now we're back in 1989 (and as someone who is knee-deep in old Genestealers and hybrids, I like it ).

Voss wrote:
Not sure why you've got a checkmark next to renegades, though. That can has been barely cracked open.

Sure. It's just a note that they did it, not that they're done. Though with Rogue Trader and Blackstone Fortress featuring Chaos Renegades chances are not bad they'll do something else next time (even if it's Stormboys of Khorne and Nurgle Genestealers).

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Well, we have the usual denizens of abandoned Space Ships/Hulks:
*Chaos Renegades ✓
*Orks
*Genestealers (need a new kit anyway)

Then some minor Xenos/Xenoi with single resin miniatures where a sole 40k release is rather unlikely:
*Jokaero
*Sslyth
*Yr-ghul ✓
*Clawed Fiend

Rules for KT: RT characters and some adversaries via WD would be reasonable.

Genestealer would make a good kit to release as a new kit for Blackstone fortress/ kill team/ 40k around when the GSC codex drops

 Stormonu wrote:
It certainly is a fun way to pass the time, but GW doesn’t make “playing by the rules” easy with their rulebooks organization (best example, healing after an expedition).

I just went by the literal lines in the book which tell you, iirc, to clear the tokens from the character card (book not on me, but it's something like that). I think it's in the preparing for an expedition section.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheGuest wrote:
For exemple for "Not dead yet" event it isn't clear if I must deploy the miniature using normal deployment rules (via a portal) or if the miniature can repop on the board anywhere next to an adventurer.

There was also a confusion on the reinforcement roll with groups with mixed bases sizes. Yes we use the smallest base size on the table for the roll, but must we deploy the smallest base size first (or the ennemy player can deploy a medium size miniature even if it has done the roll for small size etc.). This seemed quite counterintuitive when we use only RaW.
One other with reinforcement: it never says if we can reinforce more minis than there was at the start (like if you start with 1 spindle drone and you kill it can you reinforce 4 on a 1). We decided that they could but here also it seems a little counterintuitive.

And one problem with the rule we fixed by a houserule is when we draw a second time the same group of ennemies and there is still minis to deploy, we redraw. Because last time we didn't do that, we had two group of renegade guards deployed on the board and once they moved and merged it was quite a mess to manage the minis respecting the initiative order.

We had other problems like these I don't remember off the top of my head, nothing to severe to stop us to enjoy the game, but little grains of sands in a well oiled machine nonetheless.

Not Dead Yet, in the English version, is next to an adventurer. It's an "Evil Dead" style surprise.

For the reinforcements roll, you roll and read left to right on the chart. So a "1" brings back small, medium, and large bases. Then you read the Encounter top to bottom and place minis that are available to be placed, in the order, as they can fit.
IIRC English version states that your reinforcement roll is up to the Encounter size.

I also once had the issue of keeping Guard separate, until I realized it's easier to keep track of them by using each sculpt only once in each group, and dead guys go to their reference card. I also just finished painting the set; one squad of 7 I painted slightly warmer and used strong tone shade while the other I painted slightly colder and used a dark tone shade.

You make one Reinforcement roll per group, using the smallest base size in the group. It says "return that many slain hostiles from that group...", indicating that you can't reinforce over the starting group size.

The first Encounter card with a mixed group I find is 1 Chaos Marine and 4 Traitor Guardsmen. So, when that group makes a Reinforcement roll, you use the Small column, since the Guardsmen are Small.

As for distinguishing multiple groups of the same models, you can do it with paint, or simply have one group pointing one way and the other group a different way.

Only played one session so far, but it was fun. Had a couple of rule “moments”, but that could just be us learning. As for new models, perhaps Demiurge?

 judgedoug wrote:
Then you read the Encounter top to bottom and place minis that are available to be placed, in the order, as they can fit.
IIRC English version states that your reinforcement roll is up to the Encounter size.

Thanks for all the precisions!
Where does it says you must follow the order given on the encounter to chose the minis to place?
So if I understand right if on my card I have "1 Obsidius Mallex, 4 traitor guards" and the group is entirelly killed, if I must reinforce 1 mini, it'll always be Obsidius Mallex?

If you thought a Man of Iron was cool, you haven’t seen anything yet

So we'd be looking for something from the dim, barely remembered past of 40k that might be found in a Blackstone fortress at the squad level or as an individual. So let's see:

Xenos:

Megarachnids - A Blackstone fortress without giant spiders is like a day without sunshine

Squats AND Demiurg - Both look like space dwarfs and both are completely different, separate factions. Or are they?

Harlequin Mines - About fething time

Imperium:

Adeptus Arbities - They could be on the fortress or Precipice because...You know what I don't even care. If GW's gonna make a squad of Arbitrators I'm gonna buy a squad of Arbitrators

Sensei/Illuminati - Now there's a blast from the past

Space Marines - No, not the Space Marines you're thinking of. I mean like the Black Dragons or Flame Falcons. Mutated, outcast Space Marines. They might be allied with Chaos. They might try to uphold their oaths to an Imperium that's trying to kill
them. Or they might just be totally crazy, either way that's how you get your Space Marines into Blackstone Fortress.

In the grand tradition of wild speculation I have shamelessly allowed my biases to shine through clearly.

 TheGuest wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Then you read the Encounter top to bottom and place minis that are available to be placed, in the order, as they can fit.
IIRC English version states that your reinforcement roll is up to the Encounter size.

Thanks for all the precisions!
Where does it says you must follow the order given on the encounter to chose the minis to place?
So if I understand right if on my card I have "1 Obsidius Mallex, 4 traitor guards" and the group is entirelly killed, if I must reinforce 1 mini, it'll always be Obsidius Mallex?

No, as far as I can see, the precise models chosen to return is up to the players. Unless it’s a five-player game, I would think that the most powerful models in a group would be the last to return.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 TheGuest wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Then you read the Encounter top to bottom and place minis that are available to be placed, in the order, as they can fit.
IIRC English version states that your reinforcement roll is up to the Encounter size.

Thanks for all the precisions!
Where does it says you must follow the order given on the encounter to chose the minis to place?
So if I understand right if on my card I have "1 Obsidius Mallex, 4 traitor guards" and the group is entirelly killed, if I must reinforce 1 mini, it'll always be Obsidius Mallex?

No, as far as I can see, the precise models chosen to return is up to the players. Unless it’s a five-player game, I would think that the most powerful models in a group would be the last to return.

AFAIK you read the entire row based on what you roll. So a roll of 1 is, what, 4 small, 2 medium, 1 large? That would return the 4 traitor guard and Obsidius Mallex. If you rolled the result of 2 small, 0 medium, 0 large, it would return just 2 guardsmen.
again don't have the book on me right now. But I don't think the reinforcement roll says anything about choosing a column. You just roll.

 judgedoug wrote:

AFAIK you read the entire row based on what you roll. So a roll of 1 is, what, 4 small, 2 medium, 1 large? That would return the 4 traitor guard and Obsidius Mallex. If you rolled the result of 2 small, 0 medium, 0 large, it would return just 2 guardsmen.
again don't have the book on me right now. But I don't think the reinforcement roll says anything about choosing a column. You just roll.

You only return the smallest slain hostiles from each group. See page 13 of the Combat book.

Anyone thing we'll see the Starstriders show up in the Blackstone Fortress? Wouldn't mind the characters to play or an opportunity to buy them without more Nurgle stuff...

Space Slann. That’s what I’d like to see.

 Oguhmek wrote:
Space Slann. That’s what I’d like to see.

You mean the old ones?

I'm hoping for some plastic Sslyth, personally.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:
Anyone thing we'll see the Starstriders show up in the Blackstone Fortress? Wouldn't mind the characters to play or an opportunity to buy them without more Nurgle stuff...

As a WD article maybe, but not as a specific release.

 draugadan wrote:


I'm curious what needed interpretation? I've played for one evening so far, and didn't run across anything I thought needed explanation. Everything made sense to me.

like for example, enemy reinforcements max out at the encounter card max group size, instead of available models group size

and keeping unused inspiration points between expeditions

do i draw another encounter card if there just isn't enough models to make, for example a second group of spindle drones?

when a character receives a discovery card that meets their secret agenda and becomes inspired, does he keep the discovery card (to be used again on the next expedition) or return it back to the deck?

Dries_Lee wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

AFAIK you read the entire row based on what you roll. So a roll of 1 is, what, 4 small, 2 medium, 1 large? That would return the 4 traitor guard and Obsidius Mallex. If you rolled the result of 2 small, 0 medium, 0 large, it would return just 2 guardsmen.
again don't have the book on me right now. But I don't think the reinforcement roll says anything about choosing a column. You just roll.

You only return the smallest slain hostiles from each group. See page 13 of the Combat book.

Can you quote the passage in the rules that make you say that? Because I don't understand the rules like that at all when I read it.

Look, the game's fun and generally well-done, but if you're not finding problems with the rules you're not looking hard enough

For example:
Does a basic success of the gambit force you to swap initiative places with the NEAREST hostile group to the left or the right (no choice of direction, you must swap with the nearest) or is it a swap with the nearest to either the left or the right (your choice)?

 TheGuest wrote:
Can you quote the passage in the rules that make you say that? Because I don't understand the rules like that at all when I read it.

"To make a reinforcement roll for a group, roll the Blackstone dice and look up the result on the following table by cross-referencing the roll with the size of the smallest slain hostile from the group.

"If a number is shown on the reinforcement table, return that many slain hostiles from that group to the battlefield as reinforcements. If there are not enough slain hostiles in the group, return as many as you can."

- Combat book, p13.

Example 1: You've killed an adversary group of 4 guardsmen (small) and 1 psyker (large). You roll 2 for reinforcements and look up that result in the "small" column: 4 guardsmen return.

Example 2: Mallex (huge) and 2 CSM (large) are dead. Reinforcement roll = 1, so the 2 CSM return.

If this doesn't clear up our misunderstanding, I'd like to take further discussion to either YMDC or the specialist games forum.

angryboy2k wrote:
Look, the game's fun and generally well-done, but if you're not finding problems with the rules you're not looking hard enough

For example:
Does a basic success of the gambit force you to swap initiative places with the NEAREST hostile group to the left or the right (no choice of direction, you must swap with the nearest) or is it a swap with the nearest to either the left or the right (your choice)?

your choice. it wouldn't work as intended if otherwise

shadowsfm wrote:

 draugadan wrote:


I'm curious what needed interpretation? I've played for one evening so far, and didn't run across anything I thought needed explanation. Everything made sense to me.

like for example, enemy reinforcements max out at the encounter card max group size, instead of available models group size

and keeping unused inspiration points between expeditions

do i draw another encounter card if there just isn't enough models to make, for example a second group of spindle drones?

when a character receives a discovery card that meets their secret agenda and becomes inspired, does he keep the discovery card (to be used again on the next expedition) or return it back to the deck?

Don't have the rules to hand for a page reference, but I remember reading that if you couldn't place all the models for an encounter or reinforcement, you used whatever models were available and then that encounter or spawn was considered done, so no redraw.

You keep any secret agendas once they are found, so you remain inspired in future games.
Same with inspiration points; they remain until used. This last one I may be wrong about though.

 judgedoug wrote:

AFAIK you read the entire row based on what you roll. So a roll of 1 is, what, 4 small, 2 medium, 1 large? That would return the 4 traitor guard and Obsidius Mallex. If you rolled the result of 2 small, 0 medium, 0 large, it would return just 2 guardsmen.
again don't have the book on me right now. But I don't think the reinforcement roll says anything about choosing a column. You just roll.

It says to cross-reference the roll with the smallest Size in the group.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dries_Lee wrote:

 TheGuest wrote:
Can you quote the passage in the rules that make you say that? Because I don't understand the rules like that at all when I read it.

"To make a reinforcement roll for a group, roll the Blackstone dice and look up the result on the following table by cross-referencing the roll with the size of the smallest slain hostile from the group.

"If a number is shown on the reinforcement table, return that many slain hostiles from that group to the battlefield as reinforcements. If there are not enough slain hostiles in the group, return as many as you can."

- Combat book, p13.

Example 1: You've killed an adversary group of 4 guardsmen (small) and 1 psyker (large). You roll 2 for reinforcements and look up that result in the "small" column: 4 guardsmen return.

Example 2: Mallex (huge) and 2 CSM (large) are dead. Reinforcement roll = 1, so the 2 CSM return.

If this doesn't clear up our misunderstanding, I'd like to take further discussion to either YMDC or the specialist games forum.

You use the smallest Size in the group to find out how many models potentially return, but that doesn't say only those models can return.
Example 3; one group is Mallex (huge) and 2 Chaos Space Marines (large). So when rolling for reinforcements you use the Large column, but there's nothing stopping you returning Mallex if you want.

 endtransmission wrote:
Same with inspiration points; they remain until used. This last one I may be wrong about though.

For inspiration points they only say to remove all the token when you are "saving" your game (putting the cards in the sleeve).
So I imagine if you do two exploration in a row you keep them but otherwise you lost your inspiration everytime you're tidying up your game...

 Togusa wrote:
or dig through the internet to find a good interpenetration for.

Don't search "a good interpenetration" on google though, especially not with the sensitive content filter off .

 rollawaythestone wrote:
IMO the only thing that could one-up the obscure fluff reference of a Man of Iron would be an Old One.

Or Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
or dig through the internet to find a good interpenetration for.

Don't search "a good interpenetration" on google though, especially not with the sensitive content filter off .

 rollawaythestone wrote:
IMO the only thing that could one-up the obscure fluff reference of a Man of Iron would be an Old One.

Or Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau.

Well, I did but only got 'The interpenetration of two chain polymers in a good solvent'

Whatever will be in the new box, I bet it was already mentioned in the original Rogue Trader

shadowsfm wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:
Look, the game's fun and generally well-done, but if you're not finding problems with the rules you're not looking hard enough

For example:
Does a basic success of the gambit force you to swap initiative places with the NEAREST hostile group to the left or the right (no choice of direction, you must swap with the nearest) or is it a swap with the nearest to either the left or the right (your choice)?

your choice. it wouldn't work as intended if otherwise

Well that kind of proves my point because I think a “gambit” should entail some risk, so my opinion is that you shouldn’t get a choice of direction. Why do you think the intent is the opposite?