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Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 auticus wrote:
I have still and never will rebase my older models. If you aren't playing in tournaments, its not an issue. However tournaments will require you to rebase, and people that are playing you outside of tournaments but to practice for tournaments will require you to rebase.


You don't need to go that far to make the army tournament friendly. Just put the square bases on top of regular round ones (I use some blu-tack under the square base, it does the work to keep them together while playing), usually the squares fit the round without getting out too much. Or if you don't like the small increase in height, just cut some round shapes of the right diameter in cardbox/plastic card. Use transparent or color it to your base if you want to make it look good on the board.

Get your army checked by the organizers and it works just fine. In random play, most of the players won't have anything to say if they see you're doing your best not to give yourself an unfair advantage.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/13 11:34:47


 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 auticus wrote:
I have still and never will rebase my older models. If you aren't playing in tournaments, its not an issue. However tournaments will require you to rebase, and people that are playing you outside of tournaments but to practice for tournaments will require you to rebase.


Aye but as the skaven he's got are not glued to their base the rebasing is really easy - pop them off, clip the base tab and stick them down onto round bases - done.

I can sympathise with those who have creative high detail bases that they've put a lot of time into suddenly faced with having to rebase and those who have huge armies as well. That said I figure rebaisng will happen for more since when they get new models they'll come with the round bases. I think for many its simply a case of a steady change rather than doing it wholesale.

Of course some will never change and in casual local events that's fine, esp if they've no interest going to tornaments and their local scene is happy with it.

Plus as stated some square bases can be easily affixed to round ones; there's also some 3rd party companies making base attachments which glue onto a square base to turn it round (I can't remember what the company name was so I can't link to them)

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One Sylvaneth List I've been playing around with involves taking Gnarlroot, putting the Trait on a TLA and the relic for a Branchwraith + Chronomatic Cogs. Use the 3d6 drop lowest spellcasting on the Branchwraith to get the Cogs out, then start summoning more Dryads on the board.

Take a Household Batallion for extra relic, the one that lets you cast another spell and give it to the TLA general. More chances to trigger the healing effect.

A second TLA for more magic and big stomping*

I'm undecided on TLA spells, probably going to go for Verduous Harmony and Regrowth. Not sure what I'll do with the Branchwych...

Take 2 min Spite Rev squads to fill out battle-line with the Tree Rev from the batallion. Then, 3 squads of Kurnoth Hunters.

Edit: Forgot to mention, I also take the Spiteswarm Hive and Gladewyrm, but haven't yet seen if they're any good. I hope they are, they seem cool.
Edit part 2: If I'm reading this right, can the TLA's free Forest summon ability only be used once per game entirely? As in, if you have two TLA's, you can still only use that ability once in total?

One interesting note I took from Gnarlroot, is that it's main ability, the Reroll hit rolls of 1 while you're wholly within 12" of a Gnarlroot Wizard, does not have a "Other" stipulation. Which leads me to believe that Gnarlroot Wizards give themselves reroll 1s to hit, making me think TLA and Drycha in Gnarlroot could be quite nasty.

Has anyone heard anything on the matter of using our old Wyldwood bases for the new Awakened Wyldwood? I can't seem to find anything definitive. I won't be too broken up if I can't use my old ones, since I was lazy and rather than buy many sets, I bought one set and used them as a template to make more out of cheap dollar store plastic board and spray paint.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/06/13 12:14:33


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 Overread wrote:
I can sympathise with those who have creative high detail bases that they've put a lot of time into suddenly faced with having to rebase and those who have huge armies as well. That said I figure rebaisng will happen for more since when they get new models they'll come with the round bases. I think for many its simply a case of a steady change rather than doing it wholesale.


One thing to consider when you start out is that, as said, round bases are the future and going forward GW is only going to provide round bases with new kits. If you base the core of your army on squares, but then buy new boxes with rounds, you'll end up with mixed bases or have to scare up more squares, or then change the existing squares to rounds. Unless you intend to use the models for other games where you specifically need square base, it's just simpler and the least trouble to go round from the start.

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I always use what comes with the model. So all of my new stuff is on the right rounds.

I don't play any other games that require certain bases where my AOS models come in to play (Warlords of Erehwon, SAGA, Ragnarok, Frostgrave all give you a range that you can fit in, and Kings of War you put them on a big movement tray and the individual model bases don't matter)

Only GW games seem to have the fixation on exact model base size plus changing the bases around.

Essentially if I use my slaves to darkness army, dark elf army, or tomb king army, they are 100% on squares. Everything else I have put on rounds that came with the models.
   
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Huge Bone Giant






To be fair, outside of old Fantasy GW themselves really don't have a record of defining the right base size. Most of 40k was use whatever base size you think fits, if it's to accommodate a scenic base, so much the better, and if it's really excessive, have the stock base around to use that for reference.

My first Tyranid Warriors had 40mm square bases. My Huggyfex has a 50mm square base. My old Terminators are on 25mm round bases. My old Scout Bikers are on 50mm cavalry bases (square), my new Scout Bikers are on 75mm cavalry bases (long and narrow, but with rounded ends), etc. And I've played all of them long after that type of basing fell out of favor, and nobody ever raised an eyebrow over it.

As i recall even the AoS base size reference was released by popular demand, not because GW actually believed base size matters all that much.

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Clousseau




Yeah GW themselves don't really care about base size.

The GW community however, more specifically the very competitiive elements of the GW community, very much care about that extra 7mm or whatever difference in a 25mm round and a 32mm round.

Its not something I have ever once encountered in other games where people want you to destroy your bases to put them onto a different base. (or blue tack your entire collection onto another set of bases). But I also note the hyper competitive element is largely absent from the other games I play (Kings of War is the caveat, it is 99.99% the hyper tournament guys from whfb days, but the system doesn't require you to destroy your bases, you can just put them on movement trays and the trays are what matter)
   
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 auticus wrote:


The GW community however, more specifically the very competitiive elements of the GW community, very much care about that extra 7mm or whatever difference in a 25mm round and a 32mm round.


They care because it has an impact in game rules in AoS. For example, 25 mm round base models can fight on two ranks with a melee range of 1', while they can't if they are on 32 mm round base. When they use squares, you can have an advantage by having your bases take less space than their round counterparts, which is why people in tournaments don't like when you play with your square bases.for AoS. In 40k, the way they count models able to fight in melee has a complete different mecanism and having 25 mm or 32 mm isn't as important as in AoS. That's why there are still people playing Space Marines on 25 mm bases rather than the new 32 mm format. There is a small difference in game, sure, but it's not a breaking one like in AoS. Fact that AoS is also way more focused on melee fights doesn't help.

Others games use different rules, so it's no wonder people care more or less depending of those. In Kings of War, try to use different regiment bases than the standard ones in the rules - it will get on some people's nerves, generally leaning towards the competitive scene, because it directly impacts on the rules themselves. It's especially true for monsters, since they are more varied in size.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/06/13 13:55:05


 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




They can have an impact in both SAGA and Warlords as well. Smaller bases mean I can get more guys in contact and larger bases mean I can block line of sight and occupy table space better. Same as in frostgrave or ragnarok. I've also been playing Kings of War for many years, and I have various monsters on various base sizes, and I've managed to play many games without having someone flip a table on me.

I've been using original bases in AOS since inception of AOS. As have my opponents. I haven't noticed the difference to be so bad that I demand they rebase because they are going to get a few extra attacks on me.

Because it doesn't matter that much to me. My smaller based demons on 25mm rounds (the ones they were on forever) also cannot hold as much table space for objective claiming, which is a pretty stout downside in exchange for the handful of extra attacks I may be able to get. Smaller bases also give up some speed since a larger base covers more table space and can get closer faster. They are all minor enough for me to consider to all come out in the wash.

The only people that really seem to care (that I see) are the very competitive people that have a lot of emotional baggage tied to winning and losing, or their tournament standings. The caveat being people that intentionally base smaller for an advantage. Those people do create a negative experience because they are gaming the game. However, for the casual people or narratiive people that understand others not wanting to destroy bases, and when everyone is following the same expectations, allowing people to use the base that their model came with is acceptable.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/06/13 14:13:17


 
   
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Nuremberg

People preparing for a tournament should be happy to be getting a tougher challenge from their opponents as it will make them a better player They should let everyone play with smaller bases.

(I still think the choice to make base size matter when they were changing the bases for all the models was a deeply obnoxious one, indicative of a design team that is either incompetent or unpleasant. )

   
Made in us
Clousseau




Sales. Even small. Forces people to either rebase or to buy new models to be able to play in events.

I will also add I have had two boxes now come with wrong bases that I did not realize until after the fact. I have a bunch of blood warriors on 25mm bases because the first box I got for AOS had mostly all 25mm bases, and was only told a few months after my blood warriors were cheating on smaller bases before I realized anything.

I also had a "new" box of plague bearers come with 25mm rounds. This was last year, well after they had been reboxed with 32s.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/13 14:46:52


 
   
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Norwalk, Connecticut

You also said you had one box of Daemonettes come w/32mm, which is also wrong.

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Yeah forgot about those. They are in a corner of my model workshop in their box still. I will likely use them as-is because I use them with the base they come with. They will look weird with the diaz ones I have though.
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Wouldn't it be easier to just get some proper bases from a 3rd party for next to nothing in cost and assemble them?


Also I'm not a hyper competitive player and yet I prefer correct base sizes because it presents as close to a fair game as one can get with the published rules.

Also you're forgetting Warmachine/Hordes where the base size is not only important, but also has markings for front/back and arc weapons on large models.

The correct base is important, its just most games don't change them ever so its "what comes in the box". Warhammer is broadly similar, but things got messy with AoS because of the management change to the whole franchise.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





 Overread wrote:
Wouldn't it be easier to just get some proper bases from a 3rd party for next to nothing in cost and assemble them?


Indeed if you intend to play very regularly on a competitive level.

I use that system with different bases for one of my armies, goblins, that were set on squares because they were intended first for Warhammer Battle, then went to Kings of War and I had that stone slabs style with custom plastic cards I like to use on all their bases (simpler to apply on square bases). So I didn't want to destroy all of my converted bases to go with round bases. Since now I use this army for different rule settings and shift to a different base when the rules need it.

For Saga, indeed, it doesn't matter as much - Age of Magic is fun! Though with Saga, the place where individual miniatures are don't really matter for close combat - once one model of the unit is in base contact, all the other fight, no matter if they're in contact or not. So it's completely different with AoS on that matter, and that is why players aren't too picky with the base you choose to use.

Though I already had a small discussion about wheter 32 mm round bases are actually legal in Saga for infantry, since the limit is normally 30 mm in the rules. Nothing really annoying, but even there you can find some people caring about a difference of 2 mm. I was the one saying it doesn't really matter if it's 32 mm instead of 30.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/13 17:55:33


 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




 Overread wrote:
Wouldn't it be easier to just get some proper bases from a 3rd party for next to nothing in cost and assemble them?


Also I'm not a hyper competitive player and yet I prefer correct base sizes because it presents as close to a fair game as one can get with the published rules.

Also you're forgetting Warmachine/Hordes where the base size is not only important, but also has markings for front/back and arc weapons on large models.

The correct base is important, its just most games don't change them ever so its "what comes in the box". Warhammer is broadly similar, but things got messy with AoS because of the management change to the whole franchise.


Few things.

1) the game is by far not fair, so being strict on my bases to give me some illusion of more fair is like taking a leak into a lake and thinking it is affecting the water level. When I can have off the chain summoning and mortal wound spamming and flesh eater court teabagging going on, making sure my legacy demons are on 32s instead of 25s seems banal.

2) Because GW has a precedent for changing bases whenever they want, I will not buy into that. The same for why I don't chase around the meta and buy new models whenever the ghb drops so I can stay competitive. Even if its "not that much", I have a zero tolerance for having to modify my collection to make it "legal" whenever the company decides hey its time to change the base. Because no other game I play has me do that either. I don't play competitively. I play to write stories and play campaigns and hang out with people I want to hang out with.

I've already highlighted why I think a 25mm round vs a 32mm round in AOS is trivial and how it has both positive and negative impact on using it. I've been playing this way for four years now with AOS and have had no problems with it short of hyper competitive players getting angry when they slip into our campaign that my plague bearers might have had 3 extra attacks then they should have, which did nothing anyway because plague bearers.

If I thought it made an actual real difference in how I played, I'd consider it. I don't go out of my way to not base models on the bases they are provided with, so all of my new stuff minus a box of daemonettes (they came with 32s) and plague bearers (they came with 25s) is "legal" (for now until GW decides to move infantry up to 40mm bases in the near future with theiir scale creep).

I think we put too much emphasis on just how trivial that 25 -> 32mm base really is. In the ultra of competitive play, I'd agree with you. However I have no interest in playing at that level anymore. I did that for 10+ years and had my fill.

Indeed if you intend to play very regularly on a competitive level.


No argument. If I was going to go play at Adepticon I wouldn't expect to be able to field a lot of my collection because its not on proper bases. However, 100% of my games are casual campaign games where we aren't as fixated on who is winning and where there is no internet fame or glory for winning our campaigns, so I don't care to rebase my collection.

If I was going to go to adepticon I'd use a newer force (actually I'd chase the meta down and buy and paint a new army every year to keep up, which I got tired of doing because its expensive, its very time consuming to constantly have to paint, and I have to have an emotional investment in my faction, which for AOS I've had none for any of the power trios that have rotated over the past few years)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/06/13 18:39:05


 
   
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Chicago, IL

Maybe I am reading too much into this but is this hinting at new unit designations or battlefield roles that might be in the General's Handbook?

I mean a "Champion" is probably a "Hero" and a "Horde" could be a unit of 30 or more models, but what exactly qualifies as an "Elite", a "Guard", or a "Linebraker".

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That's pretty much what it looks like to me, Ironclad. The cards look like they're mostly for Open Play, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see new roles on the Pitched Battle Profiles table.

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Florence, KY

 EnTyme wrote:
That's pretty much what it looks like to me, Ironclad. The cards look like they're mostly for Open Play, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see new roles on the Pitched Battle Profiles table.

I would say it's more likely that if a unit is a 'Champion', 'Elite', 'Guard' or 'Linebreaker' will be determined by comparing a unit's profile to a chart and the unit gains the keyword(s) that it's profile matches. I could be wrong of course but we should know by this weekend.

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Feeling very underwhelmed with the previews. Except for the possibility of using Gyrocopters for the Skaven air armada project.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/14 05:52:59


 
   
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Chicagoland

Alright I figured this is the best place to ask this. I'm really new to AoS, as I've said before I only just started collecting, and I'm wondering if LoN will face a massive debuff in the coming GHB?

I'm asking this mainly because I do intend to go to tournaments in the future in addition to casual play, but I want to go for fun, not trying to get first place or whatever. I don't want to change out my army though, I'm someone who absolutely loves necromancy and skeletons and the whole aesthetic behind LoN and I'll probably keep them for a long time. I just want to avoid getting absolutely smashed at tournaments and feeling like garbage cause of it.
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

It's unlikely any army will get "smashed" in the GHB and most of the armies doing really badly at the competitive end have no update battletome.

That said no one knows what is in the GHB but its coming out pretty soon so chances are you won't even have more than the core troops and leaders build and ready to go bfore its out. So if you want to go for them, its very unlikely that they'll be bottom tier.

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Joanna9700 wrote:
Alright I figured this is the best place to ask this. I'm really new to AoS, as I've said before I only just started collecting, and I'm wondering if LoN will face a massive debuff in the coming GHB?

I'm asking this mainly because I do intend to go to tournaments in the future in addition to casual play, but I want to go for fun, not trying to get first place or whatever. I don't want to change out my army though, I'm someone who absolutely loves necromancy and skeletons and the whole aesthetic behind LoN and I'll probably keep them for a long time. I just want to avoid getting absolutely smashed at tournaments and feeling like garbage cause of it.


Expect some nerfs, but I am not sure about massive. Either way it is only a week and a day until the new GHB so we'll know soon enough.
   
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Chicagoland

 Overread wrote:
It's unlikely any army will get "smashed" in the GHB and most of the armies doing really badly at the competitive end have no update battletome.

That said no one knows what is in the GHB but its coming out pretty soon so chances are you won't even have more than the core troops and leaders build and ready to go bfore its out. So if you want to go for them, its very unlikely that they'll be bottom tier.


Not like I'll be able to afford anything new by the time the GHB comes out anyway, got no income cause no job, recovering from a surgery.

Just want to make sure what I've invested already wouldn't be made F tier, thank y'all for the comments.
   
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 auticus wrote:
I always use what comes with the model. So all of my new stuff is on the right rounds.

I don't play any other games that require certain bases where my AOS models come in to play (Warlords of Erehwon, SAGA, Ragnarok, Frostgrave all give you a range that you can fit in, and Kings of War you put them on a big movement tray and the individual model bases don't matter)

Only GW games seem to have the fixation on exact model base size plus changing the bases around.

Essentially if I use my slaves to darkness army, dark elf army, or tomb king army, they are 100% on squares. Everything else I have put on rounds that came with the models.


Warmachine, Guild Ball, Infinity, and Batman all use defined base sizes for their models in their games.

 
   
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My experience is that games that wish to be balanced(whether that happens or not is another matter) aim for fixed base sizes to keep things within parameters.
   
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Clousseau




 AduroT wrote:
 auticus wrote:
I always use what comes with the model. So all of my new stuff is on the right rounds.

I don't play any other games that require certain bases where my AOS models come in to play (Warlords of Erehwon, SAGA, Ragnarok, Frostgrave all give you a range that you can fit in, and Kings of War you put them on a big movement tray and the individual model bases don't matter)

Only GW games seem to have the fixation on exact model base size plus changing the bases around.

Essentially if I use my slaves to darkness army, dark elf army, or tomb king army, they are 100% on squares. Everything else I have put on rounds that came with the models.


Warmachine, Guild Ball, Infinity, and Batman all use defined base sizes for their models in their games.


Warmachine, guild ball, infinity, batman dont change their base sizes on a whim or ship their models on wrong bases or force you to rebase your collection every so often either.
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 auticus wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
 auticus wrote:
I always use what comes with the model. So all of my new stuff is on the right rounds.

I don't play any other games that require certain bases where my AOS models come in to play (Warlords of Erehwon, SAGA, Ragnarok, Frostgrave all give you a range that you can fit in, and Kings of War you put them on a big movement tray and the individual model bases don't matter)

Only GW games seem to have the fixation on exact model base size plus changing the bases around.

Essentially if I use my slaves to darkness army, dark elf army, or tomb king army, they are 100% on squares. Everything else I have put on rounds that came with the models.


Warmachine, Guild Ball, Infinity, and Batman all use defined base sizes for their models in their games.


Warmachine, guild ball, infinity, batman dont change their base sizes on a whim or ship their models on wrong bases or force you to rebase your collection every so often either.


In fairness misspacking can happen with any company and most resolve it with a simple email and a photo and no trouble.
As for rebasing GW has only done that, en mass, once really for 40K and AoS. Fantasy to AoS was a big single shift and whilst super annoying, it was also reflecting GW changing the product and system as a whole. 40K its been a bit more messy here and there with the changes I agree, though in general its also been as they've rolled out this new edition of the game, just not as clear cut a change as it was with AoS.

Moving forward I'd not expect GW to make wholesale base size changes going into the new editions beyond now. We might get some where new sculpts shift up the sale - such as where the Chaos Greater Demons have gone from what is basically a prince sized model to being close to a knight sized model. However that's a fair change because the new sculpt is by far and away a lot bigger than the original.

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thats fine. Im still not rebasing my older collections. So far to date that hasnt been a huge deal in using them.

40k has had a few rounds of rebasing, starting in the early 2000s when terminators went from 25s and got bigger bases out of the blue (no new sculpts when that happened) and for a couple years this very topic was repeated across forums because people werent rebasing their terminators and no one could force them because gw law was as it is now to use the base supplied with the model.
   
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Nuremberg

My main beef with the new bases is it makes the minis not as useable with other systems, which I think is their thinking behind it.
25mm rounds was the standard in tabletop gaming forever, and the smaller squares were another option usually for rank and flank style games. They big 32mm bases are too large in my view, they violate the 1" grid used in lots of games like Dungeons and Dragons, they no longer rank up nicely for KoW, they generally lock me into GW games and take up mroe space on the same models for no reason.

So even when my minis come with 32mm rounds I build them on 25mm ones. Not interested in GW's arrogant attempt to make a new standard for the industry.

   
 
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