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deviantduck wrote: 'Blood for the Blood God' is a lot catchier and 10 year old friendly than 'Sex for the Sex God'.
Also a sad commentary on our societal priorities, but that's a different discussion.
Agreed.
Side question: What do you think the chances would be for a dual kit of Fulgrim/ Keeper of Secrets?
Due to their different body plans, I'd seriously doubt it. I though for sure than Magnus/Lord of Change would share a kit, but that didn't happen.
Although I guess GW already have decent alternatives. Yncarne for a Keeper and a DP torso on a Trygon tail for Fulgrim.
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0% I would say.
Keeper of secrets desperately needs a new model though, it's hideous (and not in a good way!).
Eh. Khorne used to be all about martial pride and not just kill maim burn blood and skulls but GW squatted what little nuance existed about a decade ago so sure, sex for the sex god.
Hellraiser-esque torture / body-horror / extreme body-modification stuff? The haemonculus covens already cover all that pretty thoroughly.
Energy whips that cause excruciating pain as a signature weapon? Yup, dark eldar already have those.
A core army mechanic focused around getting pleasure from tormenting their victims? Dark eldar already have that too.
Even the arrogance and vanity associated with followers of Slaanesh is also a core part of the dark eldar character. So what's actually left as distinctly Slaaneshi beyond sonic weapons and overt sexuality? I guess the whole relentless pursuit of perfection thing, but that was more specific to pre-HH Emperor's Children than a Slaaneshi trait. Once you twist that pursuit of perfection to an explicitly Slaaneshi obsession, it starts to just sound like dark eldar in power armour again.
Heh. Just remembered the DE version of chapter tactics are even called 'Obsessions'...
A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry.
Hellraiser-esque torture / body-horror / extreme body-modification stuff? The haemonculus covens already cover all that pretty thoroughly.
Energy whips that cause excruciating pain as a signature weapon? Yup, dark eldar already have those.
A core army mechanic focused around getting pleasure from tormenting their victims? Dark eldar already have that too.
Even the arrogance and vanity associated with followers of Slaanesh is also a core part of the dark eldar character. So what's actually left as distinctly Slaaneshi beyond sonic weapons and overt sexuality? I guess the whole relentless pursuit of perfection thing, but that was more specific to pre-HH Emperor's Children than a Slaaneshi trait. Once you twist that pursuit of perfection to an explicitly Slaaneshi obsession, it starts to just sound like dark eldar in power armour again.
Heh. Just remembered the DE version of chapter tactics are even called 'Obsessions'...
When it comes to the daemons they can easily have a more organic look which differentiates them from the wyches. When it comes to chaos marines being more bulky and having power armour mixed in with the slaaneshi themes is enough to distinguish them from the dark eldar. It's almost like saying why bother having dark eldar, we already have eldar who are space elves with vehicles that fly. They do need to put thought into having the imagery not be too similar but it's easy enough to come up with a few ideas of differences they can run with. They likely will be downplaying the sex aspect a lot when they start bringing slaanesh back into things though. They'll probably lean more into them being along the lines of sirens or something than drugged up nymphos or cenobites though.
Excommunicatus wrote: Khorne hasn't had anything new for, like, two weeks, so yeah probably Angron and a massive WE release.
Then a new Sonic Weapons Sprue for Slaanesh. In 2023.
I really wish this wasn't so on the nose. GW gives way, WAY too much attention to Khorne.
Still, there have been some clues, like that "front lines Imperial standard, I can't remember the name news letter" that reported a large snake like creature rolling through Guardsman during the Gathering Storm.
Fulgrim would also be a new type of model, rather than Angron who would basically just be a Blood Thirster.
But we won't likely see either until after a 2nd Loyalist Primarch returns
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But why should GW give different factions the same level of attention when they have different popularity?
Sure, Slaanesh could use a little more love (lol), but Khorne has always been a more popular god and so of course will get more attention.
Because then you get a catch of "we are not making any because it isn't selling because we are not making any"
And that's the reason we don't have SoB in plastic a decade ago.
That's why DE didn't get an update for a decade (lo and behold, when they did-it sold like crazy)
Thousand sons? they didn't sell any models during 5th/6th, why bother making anything? lets dip toes late 7th-oops massive seller even of weak units like rubrics.
Thing that get all the attention are getting more popular by default BECAUSE they are getting attention.
Its hard to get excited about something that recived no attention for years, even decades. even harder for something that outright does not exist.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
Excommunicatus wrote: Khorne hasn't had anything new for, like, two weeks, so yeah probably Angron and a massive WE release.
Then a new Sonic Weapons Sprue for Slaanesh. In 2023.
I really wish this wasn't so on the nose. GW gives way, WAY too much attention to Khorne.
Still, there have been some clues, like that "front lines Imperial standard, I can't remember the name news letter" that reported a large snake like creature rolling through Guardsman during the Gathering Storm.
Fulgrim would also be a new type of model, rather than Angron who would basically just be a Blood Thirster.
But we won't likely see either until after a 2nd Loyalist Primarch returns
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But why should GW give different factions the same level of attention when they have different popularity?
Sure, Slaanesh could use a little more love (lol), but Khorne has always been a more popular god and so of course will get more attention.
I get what you are saying, but I truly feel Khorne sells more because GW puts out more Khorne products to be bought, not because Khorne is more popular. In fact, my personal experience would show Nurgle and Tzeetch to be the far most popular, which is fair as they do have plenty of variety in their ranges.
But I honestly cannot think of a single World Eaters player or Khorne Daemon player I've personally met outside of the brief Khorne Daemonkin codex (and again, that is because GW provided the army as an option).
I have, however, seen several very well done and quick frankly HUGE Emperor's Children armies over the years, despite the lack of support by GW
Most Chaos players I've personally interacted with consider Khorne to be the most basic and boring of the 4, probably in part because Khorne is GWs "go-to" faction to showcase Chaos. I mean, look at the last few Daemon and CSM codices over the last few years. Khorne on the cover (or at least a red guy).[/spoiler]
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I find it helps to think of Khorne as the regional manager of a business that for some reason trades in blood and skulls. It doesn't really make to me sense otherwise. He just spends all his time sitting on the skull throne instead of going out and doing anything. He's clearly just sitting there with his glasses on reading reports making sure the bloodletters, world eaters, et al. are meeting their KPIs so he doesn't get chewed out by his boss. Also helps explain why for some reason things only happen in this galaxy and apart from the nids nothing has spilled over.
Yeah, this totally. I can imagine An'ggrath yelling at Angron about the damn TPS(total posted skulls) report while Angron is wearing the little half glasses and working the old timey adding machine.
Hellraiser-esque torture / body-horror / extreme body-modification stuff? The haemonculus covens already cover all that pretty thoroughly.
Energy whips that cause excruciating pain as a signature weapon? Yup, dark eldar already have those.
A core army mechanic focused around getting pleasure from tormenting their victims? Dark eldar already have that too.
Even the arrogance and vanity associated with followers of Slaanesh is also a core part of the dark eldar character. So what's actually left as distinctly Slaaneshi beyond sonic weapons and overt sexuality? I guess the whole relentless pursuit of perfection thing, but that was more specific to pre-HH Emperor's Children than a Slaaneshi trait. Once you twist that pursuit of perfection to an explicitly Slaaneshi obsession, it starts to just sound like dark eldar in power armour again.
Heh. Just remembered the DE version of chapter tactics are even called 'Obsessions'...
Return them to their crab claw androgynous origins, simple.
IronBrand wrote:When it comes to the daemons they can easily have a more organic look which differentiates them from the wyches.
I was only talking about mortals. Slaanesh's daemons are fine and already distinct enough, because they're clearly daemons and so only really need to be distinct from other daemons.
When it comes to chaos marines being more bulky and having power armour mixed in with the slaaneshi themes is enough to distinguish them from the dark eldar.
Slaaneshi marines already have the sonic weapons thing to make them distinct. So that's something. But a 40K Slaanesh army whose only unique thing is noise marines is going to seem a bit boring and unadventurous (and therefore literally the opposite of what Slaanesh should be). You need non-Astartes troops to justify having a whole codex to themselves: an equivalent to TS tzaangor or DG poxwalkers. But what do you do with them aesthetically? If overt sexuality is out and most of the other directions you could go are already done better by the DE, what's actually left?
Anyway, DE have 'power armoured' troops too: the incubi.
It's almost like saying why bother having dark eldar, we already have eldar who are space elves with vehicles that fly.
Well, it took several editions before people mostly stopped saying that about the DE. I can still remember when harlequins, corsairs and exodites were just units in the (Craftworld) Eldar codex. Actually, the fact that DE were treading all over Slaanesh's toes aesthetically was considered a big problem when they were first introduced back in 3rd edition. It's no coincidence that that was also when Slaanesh got reduced to basically just noise marines plus daemonettes. Those were the only aspects left after DE took all the body-horror / extreme S&M / Hellraiser stuff.
but it's easy enough to come up with a few ideas of differences they can run with.
Well, go on then, if it's so easy...
They likely will be downplaying the sex aspect a lot when they start bringing slaanesh back into things though.
People keep saying this. I'm not sure it's as simple as that, though. I can see them cutting back on the association between Slaanesh and transgenderism / sexual fluidity, since it's a bit politically problematic these days to keep banging away at the "trans people are twisted and evil" trope. Good ridance to that one, frankly. But Slaanesh isn't going to feel like Slaanesh without some reference to sex/lust/temptation. It would be like making Khorne a pacifist! Or stripping out all the icky disease stuff from Nurgle.
They'll probably lean more into them being along the lines of sirens or something than drugged up nymphos or cenobites though.
My first inclination was to scoff at the idea that 'sirens' could be compatible with "downplaying the sex aspect". But then I remembered what the original Greek sirens looked like. They weren't the hot, naked nymphomaniacs of later portrayals, but big birds with human heads. Their song was what was alluring, not their appearance. So that could work. It's still basically just the sonic aspect, though. I think Slaanesh needs to be more than just weaponised music.
Racerguy180 wrote:I get what you are saying, but I truly feel Khorne sells more because GW puts out more Khorne products to be bought, not because Khorne is more popular.
My experience has been that Khorne was by far the most popular even back in the early 1990s when all four Chaos Gods got roughly the same attention and amount of models from GW. Khorne was always the 'default' God, back before Chaos Undivided was a thing. IIRC, part of the reason for Chaos Undivided being introduced as a concept was to allow Khorne to be made more distinct rather than just being the 'default' for followers of Chaos who didn't want to be bright yellow, pink or green.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/21 06:36:40
A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry.
as for what to do with mortal cultists that's actually not too hard, rather then focusing on the sex aprts, go with the "noise" bit, and go with a very heavy metal motiff to them. leather and chains, spiked hair, Melee weapons that suggest musical insturments etc.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
deviantduck wrote: 'Blood for the Blood God' is a lot catchier and 10 year old friendly than 'Sex for the Sex God'.
Also a sad commentary on our societal priorities, but that's a different discussion.
Agreed.
Side question: What do you think the chances would be for a dual kit of Fulgrim/ Keeper of Secrets?
Due to their different body plans, I'd seriously doubt it. I thought for sure that Magnus/Lord of Change would share a kit, but that didn't happen.
Although I guess GW already have decent alternatives. Yncarne for a Keeper and a DP torso on a Trygon tail for Fulgrim.
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Almost certainly the new Keeper of Secrets will be a dual kit with a new named character, whoever was speaking in the trailer. Same deal as them inventing Rotigus to dual-kit with the new GUO.
deviantduck wrote: 'Blood for the Blood God' is a lot catchier and 10 year old friendly than 'Sex for the Sex God'.
Also a sad commentary on our societal priorities, but that's a different discussion.
Agreed.
Side question: What do you think the chances would be for a dual kit of Fulgrim/ Keeper of Secrets?
Due to their different body plans, I'd seriously doubt it. I thought for sure that Magnus/Lord of Change would share a kit, but that didn't happen.
Although I guess GW already have decent alternatives. Yncarne for a Keeper and a DP torso on a Trygon tail for Fulgrim.
-
Almost certainly the new Keeper of Secrets will be a dual kit with a new named character, whoever was speaking in the trailer. Same deal as them inventing Rotigus to dual-kit with the new GUO.
isn't there a named KOS already?
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Maybe? The only chaos god I care about is Tzeentch. I know there's a huge Forge World named KoS but that's a different model than what the new plastic one would be replacing.
If there is an existing named KoS then obviously it'll be her that gets dual-kitted, like Kairos did.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/21 07:36:30
Arachnofiend wrote: Maybe? The only chaos god I care about is Tzeentch. I know there's a huge Forge World named KoS but that's a different model than what the new plastic one would be replacing.
If there is an existing named KoS then obviously it'll be her that gets dual-kitted, like Kairos did.
hmm apparently I'm wrong there isn't a named keeper, was proably thinking of another type of deamon.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
IronBrand wrote:but it's easy enough to come up with a few ideas of differences they can run with.
Well, go on then, if it's so easy...
They likely will be downplaying the sex aspect a lot when they start bringing slaanesh back into things though.
People keep saying this. I'm not sure it's as simple as that, though. I can see them cutting back on the association between Slaanesh and transgenderism / sexual fluidity, since it's a bit politically problematic these days to keep banging away at the "trans people are twisted and evil" trope. Good ridance to that one, frankly. But Slaanesh isn't going to feel like Slaanesh without some reference to sex/lust/temptation. It would be like making Khorne a pacifist! Or stripping out all the icky disease stuff from Nurgle.
Ok then. To have your tzaangor equivalent have some sort of possessed infantry, give them outfits like belly dancers, faces like mileena from mortal kombat and bladed fans or something as weapons, could easily work for both male and female models. For you occult terminator equivalent have obliterators that fused with sonic weapons or have a unit based on fabius bile's early experiments. Instead of all your sorcerers have some sort of duelist along the lines of lucius the eternal, maybe even have them be his followers or something. To replace the mutalith have some sort of warp entity that based on a cow, a squid or some combination of the two. That's at least as much variety as the thousand sons line up.
It's really unfortunate that people keep seeing Slaanesh being gender neutral as attacking the trans community or saying they're evil. It's really not, Slaanesh, their daemons and their followers couldn't care less about gender. The daemons and Slaanesh by definition are not capable of being trans, they have no gender and unless Slaanesh suddenly decides they care about gender none of those daemons are capable of caring about gender because they're all extensions of Slaanesh. Saying that the depiction of Slaanesh and their daemons is saying the trans community is evil makes about as much sense as claiming that the trans community has a hive mind because the daemonettes are just an extension of Slaanesh. or like saying Khorne being against Slaanesh's ways is GW saying Khorne is asexual and therefore anything asexual is literally the devil. Except all the marines, the sisters of battle, etc. are all asexual too.
Arachnofiend wrote: Maybe? The only chaos god I care about is Tzeentch. I know there's a huge Forge World named KoS but that's a different model than what the new plastic one would be replacing.
If there is an existing named KoS then obviously it'll be her that gets dual-kitted, like Kairos did.
hmm apparently I'm wrong there isn't a named keeper, was proably thinking of another type of deamon.
Zarakynel is a keeper of secrets it just will be kept to the FW kit. Like how tzeentch has both aetaos’rau’keres and kairos who are lords of change but kairos is the smaller plastic one and how nurgle has scabeiathrax the bloated as the FW kit and rotigus as the plastic one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/21 07:52:09
Eldarain wrote: We'll see Angron and Fulgrim for sure. Slaanesh isn't going anywhere. We have a confirmed Khorne/Slaanesh game coming and many recent rumor engine pics look very Slaaneshey.
I'd like to see Lorgar return. The codex said he has left his isolation and is leading a massive force of Word Bearers. The narrative opportunities alone between him and Guilliman are worth it alone.
"So brother, commanding the forces of our father I see. Look at all these devout followers you've surrounded yourself with. I am glad that now at the end of his sad dream you have at least accepted his divinity."
I think Lorgar could be the most intreasting deamon primarch, narrativly speaking, to bring into play. for a whole HOST of reasons.
In a way Lorgar has been vindicated the emperor is now worshipped as divine what does he think about this whole situation? does he find it hilarious, regrettable that so many are "blinded by his error"? will he attempt, one last time to reason Gulliman over to Chaos"you once where devoted to bringing the truth to the galaxy brother, I respected it, yet surely you can see the rot and the lie you now defend I ask nothing more but your embrace truth, something you have so long prided yourself on" etc
or maybe Lorgar in an act of ultimate irony will start targeting Shrine worlds within Ultramar and destroying them?
From what I understand Lorgar hates the religion of the imperium and hates that they're basically using his writings as their bible.
I imagine Lorgar would get a laugh out of the irony that both sides use his writing.
Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today?
Mr Nobody wrote: I imagine Lorgar would get a laugh out of the irony that both sides use his writing.
I think it's more like how Thom Yorke from Radiohead felt about the song Creep. How he kept basically throwing tantrums whenever someone brought the song up because his other songs were totally just as good or even better. Another way of looking at it is like someone looking back on their myspace page from over a decade ago and wanting to just die because of how cringeworthy it is.
Mr Nobody wrote: I imagine Lorgar would get a laugh out of the irony that both sides use his writing.
I think it's more like how Thom Yorke from Radiohead felt about the song Creep. How he kept basically throwing tantrums whenever someone brought the song up because his other songs were totally just as good or even better. Another way of looking at it is like someone looking back on their myspace page from over a decade ago and wanting to just die because of how cringeworthy it is.
Plot twist: Lorgar returns from the Eye of Terror to ensure Guilliman doesn't tell anyone that he is the original author of the Lectitio Divinitatus.
Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today?
Arachnofiend wrote: Maybe? The only chaos god I care about is Tzeentch. I know there's a huge Forge World named KoS but that's a different model than what the new plastic one would be replacing.
If there is an existing named KoS then obviously it'll be her that gets dual-kitted, like Kairos did.
hmm apparently I'm wrong there isn't a named keeper, was proably thinking of another type of deamon.
N'kari was a named Keeper in both Fantasy and 40k in yesteryear.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
BrianDavion wrote:as for what to do with mortal cultists that's actually not too hard, rather then focusing on the sex aprts, go with the "noise" bit, and go with a very heavy metal motiff to them. leather and chains, spiked hair, Melee weapons that suggest musical insturments etc.
So... we're back to conceding that the only aesthetic left to Slaanesh is sonic stuff? Kind of a one-note army concept then, don't you think?
IronBrand wrote:Ok then. To have your tzaangor equivalent have some sort of possessed infantry, give them outfits like belly dancers, faces like mileena from mortal kombat and bladed fans or something as weapons, could easily work for both male and female models.
OK, that could be cool. It kinda sounds like DE wyches with scarier faces, though. Or maybe Sisters of Slaughter from AoS. But I guess a sort of Arabian-Nights-meets-Sexy-Kunoichi aesthetic would make them seem different enough.
For you occult terminator equivalent have obliterators that fused with sonic weapons or have a unit based on fabius bile's early experiments.
So either more sonic stuff or DE grotesques but in power armour? You're really just further illustrating the problem here.
Instead of all your sorcerers have some sort of duelist along the lines of lucius the eternal, maybe even have them be his followers or something.
Mini-Lucius duellists are a good idea.
To replace the mutalith have some sort of warp entity that based on a cow, a squid or some combination of the two. That's at least as much variety as the thousand sons line up.
I think 'giant squid monster' is perhaps treading a little too close to stereotypical hentai stuff. At least, such a creature is always going to spawn jokes about Japanese schoolgirls. I'd be fine with that, but I suspect GW might not be these days.
It's really unfortunate that people keep seeing Slaanesh being gender neutral as attacking the trans community or saying they're evil.
I don't really disagree (although I think you mean "gender fluid" rather than "gender neutral"), but GW have to be aware of how people from outside the hobby (i.e. potential customers) may see things, even if those of us who are already customers/fans know that it's not meant that way. When the only characters in your setting/game that are described as having anything other than biblically conservative attitudes to sexuality/gender are described as depraved villains, that kinda looks... dodgy these days.
I should perhaps make clear that I'm playing Devil's advocate here to an extent. Slaanesh is, and has always been, my favourite Chaos God. I want to see her done well. Err... that came out wrong... I want to see Slaanesh armies in 40K get a cohesive and distinct aesthetic that isn't just sonic weapons or kinky sex. But I can see that it's a difficult problem for GW to actually pull that off, thanks to how they let the DE steal a lot of Slaanesh's distinctive themes five editions ago.
A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
I want to see Slaanesh armies in