[40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)

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**tneva82**

So. People complain about GW prices, GW gives discount boxes out and people complain about that. Heh.

**H.B.M.C.**

Oh cool. In about a week bits sites will be flooded with cheap Eldar stuff nobody wants. Gonna get me some more Wraithguard!

Shame the box didn't have a Wraithlord. And odd that a Saim-Hann box has 0% jetbikes.

Yodhrin wrote:
That Primaris character is...uninspiring.

Aren't they all?

tneva82 wrote:
So. People complain about GW prices, GW gives discount boxes out and people complain about that. Heh.

You possess a striking lack of reading comprehension. Impressive, even.

**Blastaar**

tneva82 wrote:
So. People complain about GW prices, GW gives discount boxes out and people complain about that. Heh.

Less overpriced is still overpriced. Maybe people would like to be able to pick up individual kits at reasonable prices, instead of dumb $120 sets with two factions that may have limited appeal to new players, which then have exclusive-to-this-box-for-6 months characters included in a weak attempt to make them sell.

Feth these boxes and this "spend even more money to get less ripped-off" strategy.

**tneva82**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
You possess a striking lack of reading comprehension. Impressive, even.

Impressive how you manage to miss all the complains about how boring release and how it's cash grab. Lol. Dakka white knight in action

**streetsamurai**

Elbows wrote:
bullyboy wrote:
I've said it before, GW need to release a Ynnari codex with unique units (they can be themed on traditional aspects, but called differently so they can be pointed differently for Soulburst). Then these new units share components with traditional Aspect Warriors so you hit up regular Eldar too. Would sell really well IMHO.

The longer we go without actual plastic Aspect Warrior kits the more I believe Ynnari will be some kind of awful Primaris-styled Eldar re-design. I really do think GW is attempting to re-do the majority of their older lines with far more obscure and specialized styles. I think we'll see CSM disappear slowly as it's replaced by four proper books for each God, etc.

It's fortunate that I love old Eldar metals (though for convenience sake I'd be fine with a quality plastic kit for most models), because Eldar are in such a fething bizarre place right now, I could never advise someone to start an army of them.

-Aspect Warriors are finecast, expensive, unavailable, and a general mess.
-Characters are stupidly now in plastic with zero options.
-Some of the characters are no longer being produced
-The Falcon is the same it's been since release in 1997(?), but you can't buy it anywhere other than GW (or occasionally eBay)
-Basic troop box is old and ugly (and you can't make Storm Guardians without expensive/crappy resin kits)
-Little to no support from 3rd party manufacturers (outside of the occasional Farseer/Warlock alternate sculpt)
-Some designs actual date from 1993 - and while I think they're attractive, they're in finecast and not likely to attract new players.
-Dire Avengers have a decent kit but were kicked in the teeth when GW decided $35 was appropriate for five plastic troop models. (reducing that box from a previous 10)

Luckily their small plastic release within the past ten years was decent, great Wraithlord, great Wraithguard, ugly new tank, but versatile. The War Walker is ugly as feth, and the Vyper molds are so worn out the kit is pretty poor now.

If Eldar were not consistently strong army-wise, they'd be absolutely abandoned and you'd never see them. They're just in a very very bizarre place right now. Again, if my army wasn't 80% 2nd edition metals recovered from eBay I wouldn't have an Eldar army, and I've been an Eldar player since I started in the early-to-mid 90's.

I'm also rather sure that CE won't really get updated from now on, and they'll put pretty much all of their attention on the Ynnari from now on.

And yes, these guardians are really starting to show their age. The CE range is such a mess

**H.B.M.C.**

You Eldar are the Empire/Dwarfs for 40K these days? They'll be there... but that's kinda it?

tneva82 wrote:
Impressive how you manage to miss all the complains about how boring release and how it's cash grab. Lol. Dakka white knight in action

It is a boring release. Your complaint is a non-sequitur. You're acting as if people should be happy/grateful when GW releases a box like this because it's cheaper.

You're also acting like the complaints are contradictory (ie. first they complain about prices, now they complaint when the price is cheap!) when, firstly, that isn't contradictory (contradictory would be complaining that the price is now too low) and secondly the people making the first complaint aren't necessarily the same as the people making the second complaint.

Hence a lack of reading comprehension skills.

**streetsamurai**

yeah it's boring as frag. I usually buy all of these discount boxes, even if I don't play any of the armies, but I have no desire to buy this one. Even the new characters are bland

**H.B.M.C.**

One way or another it'll be a cheap way of getting Inceptors. Outside of the Ancient from the Dark Imperium box, the Inceptors are the one Primaris unit I really like the look of.

**ultimentra**

The new Primaris character is actually in the exact pose as the Emperor's Champion, and his helmet has the wreath crown as well (I know there's a name for it but I can't remember). This model is begging for kitbashing as a primaris emperor's champion.

**Chopstick**

ultimentra wrote:
The new Primaris character is actually in the exact pose as the Emperor's Champion, and his helmet has the wreath crown as well (I know there's a name for it but I can't remember). This model is begging for kitbashing as a primaris emperor's champion.

Reminiscent, but not exact, The Emperor Champion have a more firm and balanced pose, while the Primaris one lean forward a bit too much

Also The Champion Black Sword

**HuskyWarhammer**

The Eldar options for this seem like a mess. Do they just have a ton of guardians and wraithguard that they need to sell? It makes me wonder, especially because the Eldar Start Collecting set also has 5 wraithguard.

Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt that nobody was asking for that's armed with a weapon (sword) that's nowhere on its profile as an option, which is a pretty significant deviation from an increasingly-WYSIWYG GW.

Finally, there's the lore - Saim-Hann as a guardian- and wraithguard- force? Why not go Ulthwe or Iyanden, if that's the case? Hell, or Ynnari - that would certainly fit the "death" theme.

I just don't get what they're aiming for.

**H.B.M.C.**

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt that nobody was asking for...

The current one is FineCost, so this gets rid of that with a new plastic one. No one out here might've been asking for it, but GW wants to rid themselves of everything non-plastic.

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
Finally, there's the lore - Saim-Hann as a guardian- and wraithguard- force? Why not go Ulthwe or Iyanden, if that's the case? Hell, or Ynnari - that would certainly fit the "death" theme.

Whilst I can't explain why they went with Saim-Hann and made it a Wraith force (with no Wild Riders!), I doubt we'll se Ynnari until they get a full Fish Elves style release, complete with new models for just about everything.

**Dandelion**

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt that nobody was asking for that's armed with a weapon (sword) that's nowhere on its profile as an option, which is a pretty significant deviation from an increasingly-WYSIWYG GW.

And the spiritseer's the most interesting part! Though I'm not sure why you're confused by the sword; it's model first THEN rules, like the cryptek we got. So no deviation on policy there.
Anyway, this box would have been 1000X more interesting with a plastic aspect unit. Maybe shining spears for the saim-hann bike theme. Or dark reapers for the "harvester of souls" thing.

But there may be some hope yet:
GW has been releasing sets in doubles:
- Necrons vs admech (forgebane)
- admech vs gene cults (kill team)
- gene cults vs marines (tooth and claw)
- marines vs eldar (wake the dead)

So what's next? My bet is on eldar vs orks (after speed freeks), specifically yrnari vs trike boss. Perhaps a new aspect dedicated to ynnead and synergizing with soulburst? It would be a neat lead up to the ynnari codex.

**Chopstick**

If they made new Aspect warrior, they would let you know many months before release. They would shout at you with a megaphone and sound the loudest air horn you've ever heard.

**Dandelion**

Considering that this box set came out of nowhere with no announcement until the week before preorder... it's hard to say what they would do. But you are probably right to be skeptical. That said, we are still waiting for the gunslinger cultist to be released, which makes me think that GW tries to hold back a few releases for a while, so it's certainly plausible.

**bullyboy**

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
The Eldar options for this seem like a mess. Do they just have a ton of guardians and wraithguard that they need to sell? It makes me wonder, especially because the Eldar Start Collecting set also has 5 wraithguard.

Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt that nobody was asking for that's armed with a weapon (sword) that's nowhere on its profile as an option, which is a pretty significant deviation from an increasingly-WYSIWYG GW.

Finally, there's the lore - Saim-Hann as a guardian- and wraithguard- force? Why not go Ulthwe or Iyanden, if that's the case? Hell, or Ynnari - that would certainly fit the "death" theme.

I just don't get what they're aiming for.

tend to agree here.

I'm OK with the spirit seer model, but why not push Iyanden? Both the start collecting box and this panted red is just odd.

Also wonder what this means going forward, it's not like this release was needed. Is there something else around the corner?

**Elbows**

GW is simply realizing that they probably sell more "Start Collecting" and discounted boxes like this than normal kits because - gasp - they're occasionally a good deal. After all, GW does not do sales...ever (well they have in the past, about twenty years ago). When you get these boxes, the ones I've seen are just a large printed box, a heap of sprues and a couple pamphlets.

That costs GW very little while giving some interesting starting options for new players, and "big box" kits to send to retailers for a short while. They generate topics like this one, and are basically stupid easy/cheap to set up and throw out in limited quantities.

The "mess" that is the Eldar side was discussed earlier - GW has only a handful of plastic Eldar kits, so they very quickly run out of things to put in them. You very quickly see a trend...

Spoiler:

**Stormonu**

There's nothing wrong with a boring release, especially if it's a package deal that nets a decent discount. I'd be on board for grabbing this if I hadn't just bought a Dark Imperium and Eldar SC myself. Unfortunately, I'm sitting on too large of a pile of minis as it is, as they are both armies I'm interested in.

I just wish they would make it more than an "discounted" box set.

What does frustrate me is the lack of effort put into the campaign book. The one for Forgebane had two pages of (bad) fluff, 3 scenarios and outdated-at-the-time-of-print statblocks. I really wish GW would put some effort into the story and campaign portions rather than the obvious throwaway "something to do with your discounted miniatures" stuff they're tossing in the box. They ought to do something like the old days - throw in something like Renegade, Calth and Prospero and put *some* effort into a mini-game to even more use out of the minis put in the box and components worth more than binning five seconds after pulling out the sprues.

**Pilum**

Have to concur with the underwhelmingness generally said here, though to be fair I could actually get some use out it if it had inspired me (though ironically the new spiritseer and lieutenant would probably be surplus!). But money is an issue right now and my socks remain un-knocked off.

Also - please beware of flanderising. It's almost an occupational hazard in gaming, but while Saim-Hann may be best known for the Riders, they do have the full suite and besides, the codex explicitly mentions the clans going to war mounted in Wave Serpents; a bit hard to do with a bike!

The salvation aspect is most likely to liberate some soulstones, as usual the Imperium wonders why the Eldar are robbing a museum and equally trope-fully the desperate seer sticks the stones into those mysterious statues in the exhibit... It's a desperate cliché but it is rather cinematic now that I've typed it out.

**lord_blackfang**

I have bought literally every "versus" box so far (or at least split for the xenos half), but this one has nothing I want.

**phillv85**

I agree this one is a little underwhelming, but I might still pick it up for the Inceptors, it'll also give me the starting of a CWE army should I ever want to build one up. We can't be angry at this, it's just a discount box. They can't all be relevant to everyone.

**CassianSol**

phillv85 wrote:
I agree this one is a little underwhelming, but I might still pick it up for the Inceptors, it'll also give me the starting of a CWE army should I ever want to build one up. We can't be angry at this, it's just a discount box. They can't all be relevant to everyone.

Yeah exactly, seems harmless enough to me.

**BrianDavion**

HuskyWarhammer wrote:

Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt [...] that's armed with a weapon (sword) that's nowhere on its profile as an option, which is a pretty significant deviation from an increasingly-WYSIWYG GW.

.

err not at all, this is pretty consistant actually. think back to Forgebane... "a new cryoptic model.. WITH AWESOME NEW WAR GEAR!" then Tooth and Claw.. "A new space wolf Battleleader mini... WITH AWESOME NEW WARGEAR!" it's a little trick to make the mini more desirable. by giving it a new wargear option that was previously unavaliable. it gives a bit of a push to sales from people whom otherwise might shrug is off and say "meh I got a finecast one already"

**BrookM**

It is what it is, a discount box probably more aimed at beginners or people interested in something a bit removed from their usual stuff but at a massive discount so snatching up this box isn't as massive an investment or loss. The flimsy linked missions and fluff are a bonus.

Lieutenant: €20,-
Intercessor combat squad: €25,-
Reiver combat squad: €25,-
Inceptors: €40,-

Spiritseer: €20,-
Wraithguard: €40,-
Guardian squad: €31,-
Wave Serpent: €36,-

Total: €237,-

If it's like the previous boxed sets at €120,- / €125,- that's roughly half the contents for free.

**dan2026**

If they really don't care about Aspect Warriors they should do away with them. It's silly at this point. We have:

Howling Banshees
Striking Scorpions
Swooping Hawks
Warp Spiders
Dark Reapers
Fire Dragons
Rangers
Shining Spears

That's 8 units that they barely acknowledge exist anymore.

**Insane Ivan**

dan2026 wrote:
If they really don't care about Aspect Warriors they should do away with them. It's silly at this point. We have:

Howling Banshees
Striking Scorpions
Swooping Hawks
Warp Spiders
Dark Reapers
Fire Dragons
Rangers
Shining Spears

That's 8 units that they barely acknowledge exist anymore.

I think they indeed want to forget those ever existed - the Aspects were great in the days when nearly everything was a metal model, as every model could be unique, so no problem that every aspect is completely different in looks from all the others. Nowadays though, Eldar would need another 8 plastic boxes on top of the plastics they already have. If there'd been like 2-4 aspects besides the Dire Avengers, and those had broadly similar looks so they could do combined boxes, I'd say we'd have seen them in plastic already.

**Mymearan**

I'm willing to bet a lot of money that Jes had the designs and probably sculpts of new Aspects done years ago and they just haven't had the opportunity to release them yet. They've said that when they released the updated Wraithguard, it was either those or new jetbikes, they couldn't do both. Then they released the jetbikes a year or so later when they had an appropriate release slot. Guess what the next candidate is? Aspects. However, the aspects need to be a big release considering how many kits they'll need (4-5 at a minimum if they do dual kits) and how weird it would be to leave some out. So it's probably not the easiest thing to find a spot in the production schedule for them. I don't think Eldar are the biggest sellers either so would take a back seat to Imperium stuff for example.

**Warhams-77**

Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the entire range has still very good sculpts

**Lord Perversor**

BrianDavion wrote:
HuskyWarhammer wrote:

Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt [...] that's armed with a weapon (sword) that's nowhere on its profile as an option, which is a pretty significant deviation from an increasingly-WYSIWYG GW.

.

err not at all, this is pretty consistant actually. think back to Forgebane... "a new cryoptic model.. WITH AWESOME NEW WAR GEAR!" then Tooth and Claw.. "A new space wolf Battleleader mini... WITH AWESOME NEW WARGEAR!" it's a little trick to make the mini more desirable. by giving it a new wargear option that was previously unavaliable. it gives a bit of a push to sales from people whom otherwise might shrug is off and say "meh I got a finecast one already"

Even more he's not wielding a sword but a knife, it's not even the 1st model depicting like that (there is a previous Farseer model with such a knife) wich it's more for cosmetic and pose than just a general weapon per se if i'm not right

Spoiler:

**Arachnofiend**

Warhams-77 wrote:
Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the entire range has still very good sculpts

Does a plastic Farseer not count as redoing already available models?