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 Yodhrin wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.

I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire

I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.

I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.

But, why though? I mean, you list right there multiple ways to get just about any part you could want or need(and most of them are even legal), it's not difficult or expensive, so what's wrong with being "forced" to order a weapon option from a bitz seller or a third party component maker? I could understand being against it if it was even remotely difficult to do simple weapon swaps or acquire the parts to do so, but it isn't and it's not.

I'm not averse to bits buying myself. I wouldn't necessarily agree with it being inexpensive though. £1 here, £2 there, and befoe you know it you've spent £20 (enough to buy a whole squad of great minis, 10+ in number, with multiple gear choices, and you've just spent that amount to convert two minis, which you've already bought at some reasonable expense already).

Warhams-77 wrote:
Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the entire range has still very good sculpts

Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?

Warp Spiders and Shining Spears have 1 sculpt (2nd ed and 3rd ed respectively). Fire Dragons, Banshees, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions have 3 (2nd, 3rd and... 4th or 5th for the latest ones?). Dire Avengers I think only have 2, with the second set being plastic. Swooping Hawks have 2 (2nd and 3rd ed). The 3rd ed resculpts were not done by Jes Goodwin, and suffice to say better stick to either the 2nd ed or the latest ones...

Dire Avengers had an interim kit that converted the Guardian kit. Basically heads and tabards.

 Mymearan wrote:
Warp Spiders and Shining Spears have 1 sculpt (2nd ed and 3rd ed respectively). Fire Dragons, Banshees, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions have 3 (2nd, 3rd and... 4th or 5th for the latest ones?). Dire Avengers I think only have 2, with the second set being plastic. Swooping Hawks have 2 (2nd and 3rd ed). The 3rd ed resculpts were not done by Jes Goodwin, and suffice to say better stick to either the 2nd ed or the latest ones...

It's interesting how a lot of the Goodwin sculpts still hold up relatively well. This for instance http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics6/img403ab59121526.jpg or these https://www.frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/fire-dragons.jpg not too bad at all, if a little on the small side. Are Phoenix Lords still around? I used to love all of those sculpts.

 Mymearan wrote:
Warp Spiders and Shining Spears have 1 sculpt (2nd ed and 3rd ed respectively). Fire Dragons, Banshees, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions have 3 (2nd, 3rd and... 4th or 5th for the latest ones?). Dire Avengers I think only have 2, with the second set being plastic. Swooping Hawks have 2 (2nd and 3rd ed). The 3rd ed resculpts were not done by Jes Goodwin, and suffice to say better stick to either the 2nd ed or the latest ones...

Thanks for the roundup . Yeah, I remember the "not Goodwin" resculpts and... yeah, not good. I'd like to believe that we could see redone "Goodwin-style" plastic Aspects as part of the KT line myself.

yay...more primaris...

JWBS wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.

I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire

I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.

I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.

But, why though? I mean, you list right there multiple ways to get just about any part you could want or need(and most of them are even legal), it's not difficult or expensive, so what's wrong with being "forced" to order a weapon option from a bitz seller or a third party component maker? I could understand being against it if it was even remotely difficult to do simple weapon swaps or acquire the parts to do so, but it isn't and it's not.

I'm not averse to bits buying myself. I wouldn't necessarily agree with it being inexpensive though. £1 here, £2 there, and befoe you know it you've spent £20 (enough to buy a whole squad of great minis, 10+ in number, with multiple gear choices, and you've just spent that amount to convert two minis, which you've already bought at some reasonable expense already).

But that's an extreme scenario and you know it. Most of the time all we're talking about is the opportunity to choose one weapon from a selection for one or two characters, which is a couple of quid, and a lot of the time not even that since anyone who's been hobbying for more than a year or two should have a reasonable bitz box to draw upon. Sure if you want to push things as far as you can it's possible to blow loads of money on bitz - I've done it for INQ28 and Mordheim projects before - but that's not typical. It's certainly not a common enough occurrence to provide a sound argument that No Model, No Rules is a positive thing, or even the lesser of two evils.

 Albertorius wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the entire range has still very good sculpts

Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?

Marines always get everything - plus then snowflake chapter versions of them.

 Yodhrin wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.

I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire

I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.

I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.

But, why though? I mean, you list right there multiple ways to get just about any part you could want or need(and most of them are even legal), it's not difficult or expensive, so what's wrong with being "forced" to order a weapon option from a bitz seller or a third party component maker? I could understand being against it if it was even remotely difficult to do simple weapon swaps or acquire the parts to do so, but it isn't and it's not.

I'm not averse to bits buying myself. I wouldn't necessarily agree with it being inexpensive though. £1 here, £2 there, and befoe you know it you've spent £20 (enough to buy a whole squad of great minis, 10+ in number, with multiple gear choices, and you've just spent that amount to convert two minis, which you've already bought at some reasonable expense already).

But that's an extreme scenario and you know it. Most of the time all we're talking about is the opportunity to choose one weapon from a selection for one or two characters, which is a couple of quid, and a lot of the time not even that since anyone who's been hobbying for more than a year or two should have a reasonable bitz box to draw upon. Sure if you want to push things as far as you can it's possible to blow loads of money on bitz - I've done it for INQ28 and Mordheim projects before - but that's not typical. It's certainly not a common enough occurrence to provide a sound argument that No Model, No Rules is a positive thing, or even the lesser of two evils.

Sure. No models no rules is absolutely not the way to go as far as I'm concerned. I've spent many an hour converting minis, back in the days of white metal and even lead (dremels, jewel saws, and many blisters). My conversions were a source of pride. They were actually difficult to do and quite uncommon, not like with plastics, we have it easy now. Just saying, bits can get expensive

 Yodhrin wrote:


But, why though? I mean, you list right there multiple ways to get just about any part you could want or need(and most of them are even legal), it's not difficult or expensive, so what's wrong with being "forced" to order a weapon option from a bitz seller or a third party component maker? I could understand being against it if it was even remotely difficult to do simple weapon swaps or acquire the parts to do so, but it isn't and it's not.

It absolutely IS expensive. I'm starting with an expensive model kit already (unless you think this is a cheap hobby), over half of which won't actually be used, and I need to support it with another series of expensive secondary purchases. These are purchases made outside of my local hobby scene, or whose selection and quality are always suspect, or whose use disqualifies me from tournaments in my immediate area, all in order to equip a single unit with the basic, standard loadout that is most effective for the points. The cost very easily blooms to 1.5 to 2x the cost for the actual model kit, let's not even factor in the time needed to gather these items. That is unacceptable. Supporting that is unacceptable.

Drop the price of the base kit to represent the missing bits and maybe we can start talking about what is or is not cost effective.

I could maybe support loosening the rules on this for characters because, after all, they're but one model. That would honestly be an acceptable middle ground. But I will vehemently fight against any suggestion that matched play wargear be loosened to include bits not found in that model kit, or readily available via an upgrade sprue. I sincerely hope GW continues with the direction they're going here and is careful to not alienate their new players this way. The last thing I want to see is people abandoning the hobby because they need three kits to make one viable unit, or forever be locked to a subpar unit build.

This is ultimately a rules issue to a large extent. Upgrade sprues could absolutely resolve many of these issues, but absent any change in direction, I support rigid wargear options until models and bits are available.

Now, upgrade sprues that give you all these options and more? Flippin' love that idea.

But aside from fancy shoulder pads, upgrade sprues rarely include weapons.

Lemondish wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


But, why though? I mean, you list right there multiple ways to get just about any part you could want or need(and most of them are even legal), it's not difficult or expensive, so what's wrong with being "forced" to order a weapon option from a bitz seller or a third party component maker? I could understand being against it if it was even remotely difficult to do simple weapon swaps or acquire the parts to do so, but it isn't and it's not.

It absolutely IS expensive. I'm starting with an expensive model kit already (unless you think this is a cheap hobby), over half of which won't actually be used, and I need to support it with another series of expensive secondary purchases. These are purchases made outside of my local hobby scene, or whose selection and quality are always suspect, or whose use disqualifies me from tournaments in my immediate area, all in order to equip a single unit with the basic, standard loadout that is most effective for the points. The cost very easily blooms to 1.5 to 2x the cost for the actual model kit, let's not even factor in the time needed to gather these items. That is unacceptable. Supporting that is unacceptable.

Drop the price of the base kit to represent the missing bits and maybe we can start talking about what is or is not cost effective.

I could maybe support loosening the rules on this for characters because, after all, they're but one model. That would honestly be an acceptable middle ground. But I will vehemently fight against any suggestion that matched play wargear be loosened to include bits not found in that model kit, or readily available via an upgrade sprue. I sincerely hope GW continues with the direction they're going here and is careful to not alienate their new players this way. The last thing I want to see is people abandoning the hobby because they need three kits to make one viable unit, or forever be locked to a subpar unit build.

This is ultimately a rules issue to a large extent. Upgrade sprues could absolutely resolve many of these issues, but absent any change in direction, I support rigid wargear options until models and bits are available.

Now, upgrade sprues that give you all these options and more? Flippin' love that idea.

But aside from fancy shoulder pads, upgrade sprues rarely include weapons.

The thing is, bits sellers know what people want (it's pretty obvious to them, they're the ones selling bits, and they see which of their stock doesn't sell, and what flys off the shelf. They're good at putting a premium on bits that you actually want. So that special bit you need, it's not necessarily cheap or easy to source. It's actually sold out, and if it isn't, it's expensive. Another thought I had whilst remembering how tricky it used to be to make unique models when they were all white metal and didn't come with options - I just can't be bothered any more. It's far more easy to pay £2 for an autocannon than it it is to buy some plastic tube, brass rod, plasticard, whatever I need to build it myself (and this kind of speaks to the opposite of what I've just said. Cutting plastic is so much easier that often I'll prefer to just buy a bit. And that can be expensive or it can be cheap - there's no consistency).

What you say about the middle ground approach though - who gets to decide what is and isn't "readily available on a bits sprue" - as you point out, not everyone has equal access to the same stuff. So doesn't this necessitate a hard line one way or the other, making a middle ground unbelievable?

Probably getting off topic?

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Probably getting off topic?

+1 to this. I think we have diverged a bit from the main topic. I personally quite like this box and will purchase it, but I can see why some people feel it’s a little lacklustre

 Legiocustodes wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Probably getting off topic?

+1 to this. I think we have diverged a bit from the main topic. I personally quite like this box and will purchase it, but I can see why some people feel it’s a little lacklustre

I think I'll get it too. I need more Primaris. Forgebane was great, but I only wanted the Armigers. T&C was great, but I only wanted the Dreadnought. This looks great, and I think I actually want 40% of the contents here. Hopefully I can sell the Eldar and the paper and come out ahead. It's got enough value that I'll happily take the risk, and if I can't unload what I don't need I'll just chuck them on the sprue pile.

 Mymearan wrote:
Warp Spiders and Shining Spears have 1 sculpt (2nd ed and 3rd ed respectively). Fire Dragons, Banshees, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions have 3 (2nd, 3rd and... 4th or 5th for the latest ones?). Dire Avengers I think only have 2, with the second set being plastic. Swooping Hawks have 2 (2nd and 3rd ed). The 3rd ed resculpts were not done by Jes Goodwin, and suffice to say better stick to either the 2nd ed or the latest ones...

Yeah, a lot of the Goodwin sculpts are pretty timeless. My reaction to the 3rd ed sculpts is a bit mixed - the Scorpions and Fire Dragons were pretty awful, but I like the Hawks and Banshees. I think in the case of the Banshees it's because when I first got into Eldar I got a copy of White Dwarf from when around they were released, and the models in that issue formed my idea of how the eldar should look - so it's the old 2nd ed aesthetic for most things, with the brand new at the time spade-head Banshees and plastic guardians. I never got my hands on any aspect warriors at the time and it's only recently that I've started to build the Biel-Tan army that I always intended to - so in order to avoid Finecast I've been buying up the metals on ebay. The most recent sculpts for most since they're pretty much just updates of the original ones, with the 3rd ed banshees. Generally the most recent sculpts still hold up really well, I think, it's just the material. They barely need to do any sort of redesign, just recreate the models on a plastic sprue and I'd be happy - though I wouldn't say no to more dynamic posing.

I worry that we won't see it though, that they'll go down their recent route of introducing entirely new things rather than redoing kits for old models - so in this case that would be new stuff for Ynnari while leaving the Craftworlds model line to slowly die. Which would be a real shame from my perspective because I love the Craftworlds aesthetic and generally dislike the look of the Dark Eldar and the Ynnari triumvirate models. If the new stuff follows the design cues of the triumvirate, I'm not going to be interested. So it's nice to see the new Spiritseer, even if it's just the tip of the iceberg as far as replacing finecast Eldar goes. If this guy can get a plastic upgrade, maybe we will eventually see new releases for the others too.

Anyway, on topic for this box set - yes it's pretty dull for the most part, but then I don't think it's really pretending to be any more than it is, just a discount box. Great if you want both armies or know somebody who wants to split a set with you, a bit 'meh' otherwise. I haven't picked up any of the other recent box sets, but since I could happily use more of all the craftworlds units, clearly need the spiritseer for my ridiculous Biel-Tan seer collection and could use the Primaris to reinforce my Dark Imperium dudes when I finally get around to picking a chapter and painting them, I'll probably pick one up.

 Bellerophon wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:
Warp Spiders and Shining Spears have 1 sculpt (2nd ed and 3rd ed respectively). Fire Dragons, Banshees, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions have 3 (2nd, 3rd and... 4th or 5th for the latest ones?). Dire Avengers I think only have 2, with the second set being plastic. Swooping Hawks have 2 (2nd and 3rd ed). The 3rd ed resculpts were not done by Jes Goodwin, and suffice to say better stick to either the 2nd ed or the latest ones...

Yeah, a lot of the Goodwin sculpts are pretty timeless. My reaction to the 3rd ed sculpts is a bit mixed - the Scorpions and Fire Dragons were pretty awful, but I like the Hawks and Banshees. I think in the case of the Banshees it's because when I first got into Eldar I got a copy of White Dwarf from when around they were released, and the models in that issue formed my idea of how the eldar should look - so it's the old 2nd ed aesthetic for most things, with the brand new at the time spade-head Banshees and plastic guardians. I never got my hands on any aspect warriors at the time and it's only recently that I've started to build the Biel-Tan army that I always intended to - so in order to avoid Finecast I've been buying up the metals on ebay. The most recent sculpts for most since they're pretty much just updates of the original ones, with the 3rd ed banshees. Generally the most recent sculpts still hold up really well, I think, it's just the material. They barely need to do any sort of redesign, just recreate the models on a plastic sprue and I'd be happy - though I wouldn't say no to more dynamic posing.

I worry that we won't see it though, that they'll go down their recent route of introducing entirely new things rather than redoing kits for old models - so in this case that would be new stuff for Ynnari while leaving the Craftworlds model line to slowly die. Which would be a real shame from my perspective because I love the Craftworlds aesthetic and generally dislike the look of the Dark Eldar and the Ynnari triumvirate models. If the new stuff follows the design cues of the triumvirate, I'm not going to be interested. So it's nice to see the new Spiritseer, even if it's just the tip of the iceberg as far as replacing finecast Eldar goes. If this guy can get a plastic upgrade, maybe we will eventually see new releases for the others too.

Anyway, on topic for this box set - yes it's pretty dull for the most part, but then I don't think it's really pretending to be any more than it is, just a discount box. Great if you want both armies or know somebody who wants to split a set with you, a bit 'meh' otherwise. I haven't picked up any of the other recent box sets, but since I could happily use more of all the craftworlds units, clearly need the spiritseer for my ridiculous Biel-Tan seer collection and could use the Primaris to reinforce my Dark Imperium dudes when I finally get around to picking a chapter and painting them, I'll probably pick one up.

I hated those first plastic guardians. 10 mono-pose identical models with lasguns instead of surikens. The redshirt gave me the hard sell though and I bought them cos I was about 14 and he managed to convince me. I think they were the only models in the 2nd edition Eldar range that I didn't paint and add to my army, they remained perpetually on the sprue and ended up getting chucked.

/edit - btw if you want to split the box I'll probably put my Eldar up on the dakka trade thread before I try ebay.

Lemondish wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.

I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire

I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.

You keep saying this - what is this $500 option, specifically?

 Azazelx wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.

I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire

I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.

You keep saying this - what is this $500 option, specifically?

$500 is certainly a bit of an exaggeration, but I can see where he is coming from DW vets have the option to have everyone in the squad with the exception of the Sgt equipped with a frag cannon, but only get one in the box or a popular load-out for gaming I've seen is the whole squad equipped with storm bolters and chainswords, neither of which come with the kit. mostly this can be fixed with a bit of bits box diving and buying the rest from b-bay bits sellers. Not $500 worth but still a fair bit more than the cost of the kit on it's own.

New article up about the new character models:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/26/26th-sept-wake-the-dead-new-models-links-and-other-gubbinsgw-homepage-post-1/

JWBS wrote:


What you say about the middle ground approach though - who gets to decide what is and isn't "readily available on a bits sprue" - as you point out, not everyone has equal access to the same stuff. So doesn't this necessitate a hard line one way or the other, making a middle ground unbelievable?

I apologize I wasn't clearer - I meant to say that the middle ground would be to tolerate this "bit hunt" for one off, character models rather than whole squads.

There are so many moving parts to this it's really not feasible to say there's a sufficient middle ground, if I'm to reassess my position here - good point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azazelx wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.

I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire

I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.

You keep saying this - what is this $500 option, specifically?

I'm not sure if saying it once is "keep saying it", but it's the extreme example. 1 Kill Team 10 man box, 5 Sternguard boxes for the storm bolters, and two assault squads for the chainswords.

Comes to $484 CAD at my local GW - the owner helped me price it out as the extreme option.

It was a shocking extreme example meant to highlight the lack of official bit support for common builds caused by the reality that one time, at one point, this option was supported on something, so it should always be supported. Don't get too hung up on the number if that's what's bothering you

I think we've pretty clearly beaten this topic to death, though.

I would have thought two Terminator Squad boxes for the storm bolters would be a better option.

Lemondish wrote:

JWBS wrote:


What you say about the middle ground approach though - who gets to decide what is and isn't "readily available on a bits sprue" - as you point out, not everyone has equal access to the same stuff. So doesn't this necessitate a hard line one way or the other, making a middle ground unbelievable?

I apologize I wasn't clearer - I meant to say that the middle ground would be to tolerate this "bit hunt" for one off, character models rather than whole squads.

There are so many moving parts to this it's really not feasible to say there's a sufficient middle ground, if I'm to reassess my position here - good point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azazelx wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.

I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire

I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.

You keep saying this - what is this $500 option, specifically?

I'm not sure if saying it once is "keep saying it", but it's the extreme example. 1 Kill Team 10 man box, 5 Sternguard boxes for the storm bolters, and two assault squads for the chainswords.

Comes to $484 CAD at my local GW - the owner helped me price it out as the extreme option.

It was a shocking extreme example meant to highlight the lack of official bit support for common builds caused by the reality that one time, at one point, this option was supported on something, so it should always be supported. Don't get too hung up on the number if that's what's bothering you

I think we've pretty clearly beaten this topic to death, though.

AndrewGPaul wrote:I would have thought two Terminator Squad boxes for the storm bolters would be a better option.

As AndrewGPaul said, you could probably just use the Terminators and cut the hands off the Storm Bolters. Or, just use the Sternguard kits, mixed with the Assault Marine kits as your Deathwatch Veterans.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I would have thought two Terminator Squad boxes for the storm bolters would be a better option.

I would have thought that at that point, you'd just get Deathwatch upgrade frames and run the damn Sternguard as them instead.

 Drakheart wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

You keep saying this - what is this $500 option, specifically?

$500 is certainly a bit of an exaggeration, but I can see where he is coming from DW vets have the option to have everyone in the squad with the exception of the Sgt equipped with a frag cannon, but only get one in the box or a popular load-out for gaming I've seen is the whole squad equipped with storm bolters and chainswords, neither of which come with the kit. mostly this can be fixed with a bit of bits box diving and buying the rest from b-bay bits sellers. Not $500 worth but still a fair bit more than the cost of the kit on it's own.

Ah I see. He's doing the "anything but the most absolutely optimised/OP build is garbage" thing. Ah well, more power to him, but I'm not terribly sympathetic. Better more options than NMNR. And feth the idea of invalidating my existing models because some people want to min-max in a new version of the rules and/or can't/won't go to the effort of converting a few figures.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the entire range has still very good sculpts

Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?

Marines always get everything - plus then snowflake chapter versions of them.

Yeah, if you want "current, plastic sculpts of power armored models holding bolters" you've got

-Tactical squad
-MK3 tactical squad
-MK4 tactical squad
-Blood Angels tactical squad
-Dark Angel Company Veterans
-Space Wolves
-Sternguard Veterans
-Deathwatch Veterans

But those whiny xenos players are allllllllllways asking for MORE plastic sculpts, I mean, GOD, isn't 2/4 of your troops choices in plastic at all good enough? Bunch of entitled jerks.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the entire range has still very good sculpts

Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?

Marines always get everything - plus then snowflake chapter versions of them.

Yeah, if you want "current, plastic sculpts of power armored models holding bolters" you've got

-Tactical squad
-MK3 tactical squad
-MK4 tactical squad
-Blood Angels tactical squad
-Dark Angel Company Veterans
-Space Wolves
-Sternguard Veterans
-Deathwatch Veterans

But those whiny xenos players are allllllllllways asking for MORE plastic sculpts, I mean, GOD, isn't 2/4 of your troops choices in plastic at all good enough? Bunch of entitled jerks.

I can imagine the pain of having to look at finecast models and wondering whether or not to buy them. Luckily I'm a loyal Imperial and won't ever have this problem.

JWBS wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the entire range has still very good sculpts

Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?

Marines always get everything - plus then snowflake chapter versions of them.

Yeah, if you want "current, plastic sculpts of power armored models holding bolters" you've got

-Tactical squad
-MK3 tactical squad
-MK4 tactical squad
-Blood Angels tactical squad
-Dark Angel Company Veterans
-Space Wolves
-Sternguard Veterans
-Deathwatch Veterans

But those whiny xenos players are allllllllllways asking for MORE plastic sculpts, I mean, GOD, isn't 2/4 of your troops choices in plastic at all good enough? Bunch of entitled jerks.

I can imagine the pain of having to look at finecast models and wondering whether or not to buy them. Luckily I'm a loyal Imperial and won't ever have this problem.

Wondering whether or not...no, the answer is don't buy them. Ever. Metal miniatures last for decades, every finecast miniature I was ever stupid enough to purchase (i got a couple of the new necrons when the line re-launched) has crumblemelted on the shelf.

Finecast as a material has approximately the same properties as those little clay snowman toys you can get from toy stores, where you sculpt a thing and come back the next day to find it melted into a puddle. it's worse than the sketchiest jankiest resin you can get from a guy with a russian email address selling suspiciously cheap Worldforge miniatures.

I don't care if I have to pay twice as much for the real metal mini on ebay, it's worth it to me because it'll be a miniature that I still have in two years.

the_scotsman wrote:

JWBS wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the entire range has still very good sculpts

Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?

Marines always get everything - plus then snowflake chapter versions of them.

Yeah, if you want "current, plastic sculpts of power armored models holding bolters" you've got

-Tactical squad
-MK3 tactical squad
-MK4 tactical squad
-Blood Angels tactical squad
-Dark Angel Company Veterans
-Space Wolves
-Sternguard Veterans
-Deathwatch Veterans

But those whiny xenos players are allllllllllways asking for MORE plastic sculpts, I mean, GOD, isn't 2/4 of your troops choices in plastic at all good enough? Bunch of entitled jerks.

I can imagine the pain of having to look at finecast models and wondering whether or not to buy them. Luckily I'm a loyal Imperial and won't ever have this problem.

Wondering whether or not...no, the answer is don't buy them. Ever. Metal miniatures last for decades, every finecast miniature I was ever stupid enough to purchase (i got a couple of the new necrons when the line re-launched) has crumblemelted on the shelf.

Finecast as a material has approximately the same properties as those little clay snowman toys you can get from toy stores, where you sculpt a thing and come back the next day to find it melted into a puddle. it's worse than the sketchiest jankiest resin you can get from a guy with a russian email address selling suspiciously cheap Worldforge miniatures.

I don't care if I have to pay twice as much for the real metal mini on ebay, it's worth it to me because it'll be a miniature that I still have in two years.

This seems like a wise choice. I've bought dozens of fine miniatures cast in resin from the likes of Studio McVey, Mierce, Forgeworld etc. I've never once been tempted to buy into finecast. In fact I bought several duplicate classic white metal miniatures like this guy https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99800101006_TerminatorChaplainNEW01.jpg and plenty more when I saw the road GW were headed down during the (continuing) finecast debacle.

Funny. How you handle your models?