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I really hope that Marvel introduces Xavier, and the original 5 X-Men first, and hold off on Wolverine and co till later. I know everyone is dying to see a new Wolverine in the MCU, but even though I am not even big on the original, at least have a single movie with them. If you want to kill off Iceman in the process? I am okay with that. Then roll out the later team.

I am sure if they did this it would piss off some fans though, even if it is how it all originally went down.

Minus that whole 'kill of Iceman' thing?

Sure.

Ultimate x men is si gle handedly responsible for ruining the ultimate universe. Do not, in any capacity, use ultimate xmen.

Instead, use comic first class. Make them teens. Build the stories and intro duce the characters slowly so we can learn to give a gak about them. Make apocalypse and the pheonix force avengers style movies that cap off phases instead of the x men solo stories.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
... Salsa Starks...

Please tell me that was intentional.

I assure you it was.



So far as "a new wolverine", I shudder to think what that would look like. I half want them to just go straight to X-23 because I feel like, much like Heath Ledger's Joker, Hugh Jackman has left a hard act to follow and I don't want to watch a series of actors do a lesser job for a decade.

I just don't want them to do the X-Men at all. They ruin everything.

Keep 'em in their own pocket universe and just incorporate the Fantastic Four (and everything they come with) into the MCU.

 KTG17 wrote:
I really hope that Marvel introduces Xavier, and the original 5 X-Men first, and hold off on Wolverine and co till later. I know everyone is dying to see a new Wolverine in the MCU, but even though I am not even big on the original, at least have a single movie with them. If you want to kill off Iceman in the process? I am okay with that. Then roll out the later team.

I am sure if they did this it would piss off some fans though, even if it is how it all originally went down.

I recall alot of people saying Hugh jackman would ruin Wolverine

However I have really enjoyed thoughrly pretty much all the X Men films and they are had and shoulders above all but the most recent DC offerings, interesting to see what they do nexy.

 KTG17 wrote:
I really hope that Marvel introduces Xavier, and the original 5 X-Men first, and hold off on Wolverine and co till later. I know everyone is dying to see a new Wolverine in the MCU, but even though I am not even big on the original, at least have a single movie with them. If you want to kill off Iceman in the process? I am okay with that. Then roll out the later team.

I am sure if they did this it would piss off some fans though, even if it is how it all originally went down.

Hard pass. Duplicating the original team would be a problem on many levels (not least being four white males and the token girl they're all competing over- reading the originals with the mainstream 60s sensibilities is really cringeworthy). Plus the originals as presented had no drive, motivation or even agency. They're good little boy scouts (& a good girl) that simply do what teacher tells them, beat off the villain of the month, and go home and train.

I'm not sure why Iceman would be killed off. For a long time he was the sane one with no dramatic transformations or personal drama (until the late 90s/2000s). He was actually the youngest, with a sense of adventure and fun, not staid, boring and 'correct' like the others.


Granted Ultimates are a worse idea, but the stories with the original five are basically.... fur, teen dating = forever romance, and angsting about not being picked for romance (with money). And beating up clearly labelled villains that don't actually do much of anything on the side.

You seem to think that if they went for the original five X-Men they would also have to keep the dated stories word for word?

...huh?

They'd probably gender swap a bunch of them and they certainly would be beholden to 60's era nonsense.

I do think it will be tricky to get Inhumans into the MCU, but I think they'll figure out a non-ridiculous way of doing it.

 Mysterio wrote:
You seem to think that if they went for the original five X-Men they would also have to keep the dated stories word for word?

...huh?

They'd probably gender swap a bunch of them and they certainly would be beholden to 60's era nonsense.

I do think it will be tricky to get Inhumans into the MCU, but I think they'll figure out a non-ridiculous way of doing it.

The Inhumans were a bit of a disaster of a show so i doubt they will use that name, they are bit better in Agents of Shield even if "everything" has to be about dull Daisy.

Yes, right, I know - that was the joke.

Before the Fox purchase, the MCU couldn't use 'mutants' and perhaps thought that 'Inhumans' could be a good substitute.

For a bunch of reasons, that didn't work.

Now that they've got the real and proper Mutants and X-Men back, the sky is the limit!

But Fox is attempting to rush quite a few movies out before the End, which is weird and interesting and should result in more than a few spectacular train wrecks too.

The first of which looks to be...

...Dark Phoenix!

Well, this looks to be a fitting top bun for that turd sandwich that is the X-Men franchise. The sad part is, most of the parts are cast/acted pretty well. Then they still mess them up amazingly.

Like, what is the threat here with her? I get what the threat is from Dark Phoenix in the Comics, but the movies are drastically different from those. So what is she doing? How is she causing issues? What is her power scale? I see nothing I can really compare it to. I see her losing it a little but she doesn't seem to be a world ending threat. Which is crazy because she is the Dark Phoenix. Some of the stuff she was doing regular powered Jean could do easily.

Why should I fear Movie Dark Phoenix over just regular Jean Grey?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just don't want them to do the X-Men at all. They ruin everything.

Keep 'em in their own pocket universe and just incorporate the Fantastic Four (and everything they come with) into the MCU.

Hell, they can skip the Fantastic Four themselves for all I care, just give us Dr. Doom done right! If Hiddleston's Loki is truly gone, then we're going to need a recurring villain who is not only all levels of awesome, but is someone we can root for at the same time. I think MCU could pull that off.

Loki is aparently getting a mini series tv show with hiddleson reprising. I am personally hoping for a Loki Agent of Asgard.

Nah, it'll be Lokiwatch Knights Rider in which he takes a break from his career as Trickster God in order to solve an increasingly bizarre series of mysteries in late night downtown LA in a talking car.

 Mysterio wrote:
You seem to think that if they went for the original five X-Men they would also have to keep the dated stories word for word?

...huh?

Nope. They'd basically have to come up with new characters for the power sets, which defeats the purpose of using the original characters.
There is a reason people are chuckling that Cyclop's lines in this trailer are 'Jean! Jean. Jean.' And I note that standing in the background of a shot (next to Magneto) is a blue and furry Beast (which is frankly a step up from being Xavier's maid).
There aren't many stories to tell with these characters, particularly if they're going to be rebooted and introduced into the MCU in its usual style (exposition and origin stories). The X-men movies have been a rollercoaster of mediocrity, failure and a few moments of this could actually be pretty decent. Under new management, they ought to use someone else, rather than try to keep forcing the same pieces in the same dance.

Though I'm with HBMC. Just jamming them into the MCU would be a mistake. They've already done the powers are different, powers require government control, etc. etc. Revisiting it with the Xmen would just be slightly painful and dull. And the X-men story is always seriously undercut if those heroes over there have powers and holy crap, no one cares.

Their story has a lot more depth if they are the only fish a separate mutant universe.

They'd probably gender swap a bunch of them and they certainly would be beholden to 60's era nonsense.

Yeah, that's certainly another ball of fan rage Disney wants to invite. It isn't like there's a HUGE pile of X-men to pick and choose from that's really, actually diverse.

And another huge pile of unused villains, rather than listening to Magneto waffle on again about he's justified in his atrocities, because atrocities existed. And Charles rolling in to start another endless 'Nuh-uh' 'Uh-huh' argument.
Having on-scale villains for a Marvel movie would be pretty neat in its own right, rather than overpowered godlike entities or... nobody.


@Tannhauser- totally agree. They can introduce him as a Dr. Strange villain, and have him go rogue dictator. All kinds of potential story arcs there, with easy ties to make him fit in with any title or group.

 Ouze wrote:

So far as "a new wolverine", I shudder to think what that would look like. I half want them to just go straight to X-23 because I feel like, much like Heath Ledger's Joker, Hugh Jackman has left a hard act to follow and I don't want to watch a series of actors do a lesser job for a decade.

eh... some actors can probably pick it up and own it.

I'd say Tom Hardy would pick up that mantel.

 Mysterio wrote:

The MCU might just have some 'Event' which triggers the X-Gene, and then we're off and running.

Between having two Infinity stones on Earth for who knows how long, Hydra(and later Shield) shenanigans since WW2, and Kree and Celestial tampering with the gene pool the MCU has plenty of stuff that could act as a X-gene catalyst. Although an unintended effect of "all of the above" would be my personal prefrence.


The MCU does take a lot of ideas from the Ultimate comics so I'd be suprised if there are not a few similarities. That said there is plenty of room for there own take on the team. It doesnt have to be a straight adaption of either the original or Ultimate books. Anyone remember the X-Men: Evolution cartoon?

 Azreal13 wrote:
Nah, it'll be Lokiwatch Knights Rider in which he takes a break from his career as Trickster God in order to solve an increasingly bizarre series of mysteries in late night downtown LA in a talking car.

you leave Baywatch Nights alone, it was an awesome example of way too much Hoff and drugs, especially when it swerved from police procedural into X-files fanboyness

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:

The MCU might just have some 'Event' which triggers the X-Gene, and then we're off and running.

Between having two Infinity stones on Earth for who knows how long, Hydra(and later Shield) shenanigans since WW2, and Kree and Celestial tampering with the gene pool the MCU has plenty of stuff that could act as a X-gene catalyst. Although an unintended effect of "all of the above" would be my personal prefrence.

I was thinking that an after-effect of the Unsnap which we all know is coming would be a perfect way to introduce the X-gene, but, I don't think they'd be able to get that into A4 in time, as the Fox thing and reacquiring all those previously missing assets is, relatively speaking, quite recent.

I suppose that the MCU *could* have an X-Men and *not* use many or any of what are popularly known as the X-Men but...the odds of that happening are very low.

The unsnapping or something else in A4 could be the trigger for more mutants to come into there powers. But unless Marvel are willing to wait another ten years, some mutants would have to already have powers in the MCU for there backstory's to make sense.

Of course even then there would have to be some tweaking. Magneto for example would not make sense as a survivor of the Holocaust. As powerful as that story is I cant see them having a bad guy who's pushing 80 in any reboot that's not a period piece. But he could still have a family link to those events, and unfortunately the world has not been short of ethnically motivated atrocities since WW2 that could have had a similar effect on him.

Well, they said "the twins" were Von Strucker's only successful experiments, right? They can just semi-retcon that by adding in some guff about the reason they survived being them having the latent X-gene and the experiments just activated and amped up what they already had within them.

 Mysterio wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:

The MCU might just have some 'Event' which triggers the X-Gene, and then we're off and running.

Between having two Infinity stones on Earth for who knows how long, Hydra(and later Shield) shenanigans since WW2, and Kree and Celestial tampering with the gene pool the MCU has plenty of stuff that could act as a X-gene catalyst. Although an unintended effect of "all of the above" would be my personal prefrence.

I was thinking that an after-effect of the Unsnap which we all know is coming would be a perfect way to introduce the X-gene, but, I don't think they'd be able to get that into A4 in time, as the Fox thing and reacquiring all those previously missing assets is, relatively speaking, quite recent.

I suppose that the MCU *could* have an X-Men and *not* use many or any of what are popularly known as the X-Men but...the odds of that happening are very low.

Why they need that? Scarlet Witch is literally an Avenger. All she would have to say is "more like me" and then poof, they have an excuse for the mutant gene. Hell, they could even have an old Xavier show up and tell her something like she has to fix what she did and that would fit in perfectly with the current MCU. They could play off House of M like it has already happened in the 80-90s and that is why there are no more Mutants.

They have a lot of really easy fixes to this issue.

That being said, I bet someone is really kicking themselves over already burning through Days of Future Past, which would have been the most natural segue for all involved, I think.

I bet they are!

Also, I don't think MCU Scarlet Witch has the same power set as Marvel Comics Scarlet Witch.

Though to be fair, Marvel Comics Scarlet Witch is all over the place.

Voss wrote:

Hard pass. Duplicating the original team would be a problem on many levels (not least being four white males and the token girl they're all competing over- reading the originals with the mainstream 60s sensibilities is really cringeworthy).

Correct. Completely forgot how we now have to bend over backwards to make peeps feel included by making sure everyone can see their color of skin in a movie.

But if we must: Xavier can be black (I’m thinking Morgan Freeman), Cyclops can be Hispanic, Angel can be desi, Jean Grey Chinese, iceman Native American, but not too northern American ~ it would be too cliche to make him Inuit, but I would be cool with it.

Beast would have to be white though. Lord knows all of the others races would be offended to find he has been cast in their color (“I am highly offended and disappointed Marvel chose to cast a man of African American decent to play the Beast, who’s connotation refers to an animal-like man who is similar to an ape”. White peeps roll better with that kind of thing.

What is the opposite of white-washing? Or is it racist just to ask that?

As far as killing off Iceman, I was just thinking if anyone had to die, he’s my least favorite in the history of comics.

 KTG17 wrote:

Voss wrote:

Hard pass. Duplicating the original team would be a problem on many levels (not least being four white males and the token girl they're all competing over- reading the originals with the mainstream 60s sensibilities is really cringeworthy).

Correct. Completely forgot how we now have to bend over backwards to make peeps feel included by making sure everyone can see their color of skin in a movie.

But if we must: Xavier can be black (I’m thinking Morgan Freeman), Cyclops can be Hispanic, Angel can be desi, Jean Grey Chinese, iceman Native American, but not too northern American ~ it would be too cliche to make him Inuit, but I would be cool with it.

Clever girl!

 KTG17 wrote:

Beast would have to be white though. Lord knows all of the others races would be offended to find he has been cast in their color (“I am highly offended and disappointed Marvel chose to cast a man of African American decent to play the Beast, who’s connotation refers to an animal-like man who is similar to an ape”. White peeps roll better with that kind of thing.

Not necessarily, as you could go with the more cat-like Beast that was around for quite some time, somewhat recently.

Best way to bring the X-men into the MCU is via Dr. Strange multiverse mumbo-jumbo. That way, the events of both "universes" do not conflict and you don't need some other convoluted reason why Mutants have yet to show themselves in the MCU.
Having Mutants as a "recent" development in the MCU just doesn't seem right. Mutants need to have a long history.

-

The comics have often run with the idea that they are rare enough that their existence is generally kept a secret from the public via either the government or Xavier himself. It would be a clunky excuse but not entirely implausible.

As maybe the only worthwhile thing to take from the Ultimate X-Men, tying them back to the efforts to recreate the Super Soldier Serum might not be a bad call either, though it kind of flies in the face of the themes of evolution they embody.

 LunarSol wrote:
The comics have often run with the idea that they are rare enough that their existence is generally kept a secret from the public via either the government or Xavier himself. It would be a clunky excuse but not entirely implausible.

As maybe the only worthwhile thing to take from the Ultimate X-Men, tying them back to the efforts to recreate the Super Soldier Serum might not be a bad call either, though it kind of flies in the face of the themes of evolution they embody.

Having them "hidden" would also make them seem a bit selfish and unheroric, especially considering their lack of assistance in big conflicts like the Battle of NY (in the state they LIVE in) and Sokovia.
You would think that a group of superhumans whose tenant is to use their powers for the good of mankind, would be to help in those larger conflicts.
Having Xavier wipe everyone's memories would also make all the MCU events thus far a Retcon. Fox's X-men franchise says "hi" to this

Spiderman gets a pass because he was too young. But unless you make all the X-men brand new to the scene (which completely takes out Xavier and Magneto), the only believeable way to introduce them is to have them be a part of there own separate universe.
However the Avengers reverse Thanos' "snap" could open this possibility up.

One of the bigger criticisms with Thanos' plan is that instead of wiping half the universe, he could have doubled it's resourses. If the Avengers try this, maybe it instead merges the MCU with the alternate universe in which Mutants exist.
That is how I'd write them in. That also doesn't necessarily require recasting and you can continue to use Hugh Jackman if he's willing (and he is)

-

 KTG17 wrote:

Voss wrote:

Hard pass. Duplicating the original team would be a problem on many levels (not least being four white males and the token girl they're all competing over- reading the originals with the mainstream 60s sensibilities is really cringeworthy).

Correct. Completely forgot how we now have to bend over backwards to make peeps feel included by making sure everyone can see their color of skin in a movie.

Silly question, but are you a part of the X-Men writing team? Or on any film writing team?

Because that would be pretty cool.

If not, then why do you feel obligated to make peeps feel anything while watching movies.

X-Men has clearly been about diversity and inclusion since 1975, arguing against it in X-Men seems to miss the point of X-Men.

The argument that diversity has gone too far in Super Hero movies may have its place, but X-Men is certainly not it.